Wrestling Entertainment - we know, you don't have to tell us!

[DE.]

There is a Kairi Sane/Brock Lesnar meme which is pretty hilarous.

But yeah, Impact basically trying to be woke but also desperately doing anything they can to get eyeballs on their product. They can't compete with WWE or AEW on production values or talent, so the only other thing they can do is try to be different in some way. I don't think this is the right way to go about it though.

[Bigdoggsteel]

18 minutes ago, DE. said:

There is a Kairi Sane/Brock Lesnar meme which is pretty hilarous.

But yeah, Impact basically trying to be woke but also desperately doing anything they can to get eyeballs on their product. They can't compete with WWE or AEW on production values or talent, so the only other thing they can do is try to be different in some way. I don't think this is the right way to go about it though.

No way Brock is getting up from that elbow. 

Ya,I suppose that is all they are doing. I'm tempted to sign up to AEW plus so I can watch their show, can't say that about impact. It's the commentators for me, makes such a huge difference having Tony and JR. Excalibur seems good too. None of them Stu Bennett though, I love that guy on commentary. He gets it. 

[DE.]

34 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

No way Brock is getting up from that elbow. 

Ya,I suppose that is all they are doing. I'm tempted to sign up to AEW plus so I can watch their show, can't say that about impact. It's the commentators for me, makes such a huge difference having Tony and JR. Excalibur seems good too. None of them Stu Bennett though, I love that guy on commentary. He gets it. 

The commentary on AEW is indeed awesome. You can tell the guys are having so much fun calling the action and just being a part of the experience. They've added Taz to the rotating announce team too which is pretty cool. Hearing Tony Schiavone after so many years especially is a real treat for an old school WCW mark like me. He's still got it too! Compare the commentary on AEW to WWE and it really is night and day. WWE's announce team all sound like robots reciting lines. Booker T is the only decent commentator they've had in recent years, and that's just because he was batshit crazy and didn't follow the script.

I remember almost being in tears of laughter at 03:24 in this vid, Booker's smug laugh, "what do you got to say now Corey?" "ILLEGAL TACTICS" ... Booker was the best. It was a dark day when they replaced him.

Agree that Stu Bennett is great, and imo actually better than Cornette. 

You've gotta start watching Dynamite regularly man. They had an iffy ending to last year but they have been knocking it out of the park every week in 2020. It's easily the best weekly wrestling show around right now.

Edited March 4, 2020 by DE.

[DE.]

Speaking of Dynamite, strong rumours that Matt Hardy could debut tonight as the leader of the Dark Order, and also a potential debut for Brodie Lee aka Luke Harper. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

Ok,I'm signing up. Tis €5.45 month,which works out around a euro fifty per episode. Can't knock that value. 

Edited March 4, 2020 by Bigdoggsteel

[Bigdoggsteel]

It does remind me of WCW circa mid to late 90s and that was the golden era for me. 

[DE.]

I don't think you'll be disappointed. Dynamite is one of the highlights of the week for me. Literally the only gripe I've had with it recently is that they don't play the opening anymore, which is a shame as I thought it was really good. I loved the mash-up Nitro/AEW opening somebody made before Dynamite started.

 

[Miller11]

Caught up with Revolution. Thoughts...

Most I’ve enjoyed a Bucks match yet. Don’t think it was worthy of the hype, and plenty of things in this match were over the top, but some psychology in a bucks and Omega match for a change. Decent.

Cody and MJF was brilliant. 

Women's title match was not good.

Darby Allin grows on me every time I see him.

I think Jericho should’ve retained. Don’t see Moxley as being near his level. Inner circle losing 2/3 is not smart.

I hate Orange Cassidy. Hated that match more than I can describe. I thought I made PAC look ridiculous. The only way to make that match anything other than a disaster for everyone involved, except the people in the crowd in on the joke, is for Cassidy to do his schtick (if he must) and PAC to absolutely brutalise and demolish him. Leave him bloody and injured. I will have to just fast forward any of his nonsense in future.

In short, so much potential for AEW to be brilliant. It needs some direction from someone more removed, more experienced, and less emotionally invested. The lunatics running the asylum are holding it back.

 

[Mike E]

32 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

Caught up with Revolution. Thoughts...

Most I’ve enjoyed a Bucks match yet. Don’t think it was worthy of the hype, and plenty of things in this match were over the top, but some psychology in a bucks and Omega match for a change. Decent.

Cody and MJF was brilliant. 

Women's title match was not good.

Darby Allin grows on me every time I see him.

I think Jericho should’ve retained. Don’t see Moxley as being near his level. Inner circle losing 2/3 is not smart.

I hate Orange Cassidy. Hated that match more than I can describe. I thought I made PAC look ridiculous. The only way to make that match anything other than a disaster for everyone involved, except the people in the crowd in on the joke, is for Cassidy to do his schtick (if he must) and PAC to absolutely brutalise and demolish him. Leave him bloody and injured. I will have to just fast forward any of his nonsense in future.

In short, so much potential for AEW to be brilliant. It needs some direction from someone more removed, more experienced, and less emotionally invested. The lunatics running the asylum are holding it back.

 

I don't want to sound too much like I'm having a go because rasslin' is subjective, but I feel like if you can't buy Cassidy's gimmick, you're taking wrestling a bit too seriously. It's not like people sell the lazier kicks as legit or anything.

Aside from that, I agree with your verdict albeit I'm more enthusiastic about them. I think dropping the belt to Mox was perfect timing. After the next PPV, Fozzy go on tour so he would obviously have lost it there. At least at Revolution it was still 50/50.

Allin: Star in the making imo.

 

[DE.]

A significant portion of the booking is being done by Tony Khan and I doubt that is going to change! One thing that's for sure is that AEW are really connecting with their audience, producing excellent TV numbers, solid PPV buyrates (at $50 a pop!) and getting incredible crowd reactions wherever they go. I don't think they need to change too much at the moment. Once they've built a solid foundation with their core fanbase (which they are will on their way to doing already) then maybe they can look at things that need to change for further expansion. As it stands they seem to be delivering exactly what their fans want, which is a very welcome change from WWE's stance of "you'll take what we give you and like it".

[Miller11]

35 minutes ago, Mike E said:

I don't want to sound too much like I'm having a go because rasslin' is subjective, but I feel like if you can't buy Cassidy's gimmick, you're taking wrestling a bit too seriously. 

I don’t find his gimmick amusing or entertaining in the slightest. I don’t understand why anyone would... actually that’s not completely true. It’s just like any number of other indie level spots and gimmicks that have been done for years that gain a bit of traction on the internet. Like a dickflip, invisible man, hand grenade, whatever. These things have always appealed to small niche audiences at an indie level. AEW is just enabling all of them to see it with a bigger platform. For me it’s illogical and stupid. I know the cat is out of the bag in terms of kayfabe, but these things are so far removed from the whole idea of what wrestling is. 
 

16 minutes ago, DE. said:

A significant portion of the booking is being done by Tony Khan and I doubt that is going to change! One thing that's for sure is that AEW are really connecting with their audience, producing excellent TV numbers, solid PPV buyrates (at $50 a pop!) and getting incredible crowd reactions wherever they go. I don't think they need to change too much at the moment. Once they've built a solid foundation with their core fanbase (which they are will on their way to doing already) then maybe they can look at things that need to change for further expansion. As it stands they seem to be delivering exactly what their fans want, which is a very welcome change from WWE's stance of "you'll take what we give you and like it".

I think you’ve got the nail on the head there. Their core fan base is there, and they are rabidly loyal. Having said that, I noticed MJF getting a lot of heat for going “too far” on Twitter last week. Some skewed moral compasses amongst some of them, but that’s another story!

I know Meltzer lives to bang on about the demographics, and AEW are absolutely killing it with theirs. I’m guessing the 20-30 year old males are a huge proportion of their audience. Certainly seems that way on live shows. I don’t think they have any real interest in doing so, but I can’t see them doing anything to take the WWE’s kids viewership away.

I worry that the core audience is so into AEW, to the extent they won’t entertain even the most minor criticism, that any appetite for change/growth will be stifled. They are riding a hell of a wave at the minute, but I don’t know how long it can last. Mind you, WWE shows no sign of doing anything to win back their lost viewers who are utterly fed up of their product. Me included. 
 

I think we are reaching the point where many people have picked a side and nailed their colours to the mast. Either AEW or WWE. I’m not enamoured enough with either at the moment, but I think AEW’s “issues” (or what I perceive the issues to be) are far more easily fixed.c

[Mike E]

Only watched the Rumble in the last 3 months. Keep up with WWE via Simon Miller now.

While I'm completely sold on AEW, and think they've officially converted me. Even NXT is less interesting because it feels like every match and story is too similar.

AEW has variety in spades, and it serves it very well.

[Miller11]

9 minutes ago, Mike E said:

Only watched the Rumble in the last 3 months. Keep up with WWE via Simon Miller now.

While I'm completely sold on AEW, and think they've officially converted me. Even NXT is less interesting because it feels like every match and story is too similar.

AEW has variety in spades, and it serves it very well.

I thought Royal Rumble was the best thing I’ve seen in ages. That aside I can’t remember the last WWE event I enjoyed. I barely watch it either, although I do like NXT UK, mainly due to the fact I’ve followed a lot of those wrestlers on the UK scene for years.

I really want to be converted by AEW! I think my personal preferences are too far removed from the direction they will go though.

I’m enjoying revisiting (and discovering) a lot of old stuff at the minute. That’s typical of me generally though. I love music, and own thousands of albums... maybe only a couple of dozen of which were released this millennium!

[DE.]

9 hours ago, Miller11 said:

I think you’ve got the nail on the head there. Their core fan base is there, and they are rabidly loyal. Having said that, I noticed MJF getting a lot of heat for going “too far” on Twitter last week. Some skewed moral compasses amongst some of them, but that’s another story!

I know Meltzer lives to bang on about the demographics, and AEW are absolutely killing it with theirs. I’m guessing the 20-30 year old males are a huge proportion of their audience. Certainly seems that way on live shows. I don’t think they have any real interest in doing so, but I can’t see them doing anything to take the WWE’s kids viewership away.

I worry that the core audience is so into AEW, to the extent they won’t entertain even the most minor criticism, that any appetite for change/growth will be stifled. They are riding a hell of a wave at the minute, but I don’t know how long it can last. Mind you, WWE shows no sign of doing anything to win back their lost viewers who are utterly fed up of their product. Me included. 

I think we are reaching the point where many people have picked a side and nailed their colours to the mast. Either AEW or WWE. I’m not enamoured enough with either at the moment, but I think AEW’s “issues” (or what I perceive the issues to be) are far more easily fixed.c

I don't think any major change will happen unless TNT demands higher viewership or demos begin slipping. They're in a good place at the moment, but should be wary of complacency. In fairness I've seen no sign of the company being complacent, but it's an easy trap to fall into once you feel like you've snared your core audience. 

I still watch Raw, NXT and the WWE PPV's, but it's mostly out of habit these days. Raw is just on in the background Tuesday evenings whilst I do other things, and it's pretty much the same for the PPV's. I don't pay them the same amount of attention as when I'm watching Dynamite, Powerrr or an AEW/NWA PPV. WWE has become incredibly bland and stale to me, with the odd exception. Randy Orton for example is doing some awesome work at the moment. 

Obviously the biggest positive from the current AEW product is they listen to their fans. The Nightmare Collective was being roundly panned, so rather than 'do a WWE' and continue on regardless, they just canned it and moved on. People were getting annoyed with the Dark Order having such a prominent place on the show - now they've been massively scaled back and amended. People were becoming frustrated with the Elite not being properly involved in the show - now they're all an integral part of some fantastic storylines. After having to endure WWE for so long it's really great to have a company that genuinely listens to its fans, rather than just pretending they do. Also the lack of rampant commercialism that infests WWE is a welcome change. No stupid buzzwords, no characters randomly losing first/last names, no idiotic swerves, no part-timers going over full-time wrestlers, no Michael Cole, no robot commentators shilling hashtags and fake laughing at things that aren't funny, no fan favourites getting squashed for no obvious reason, no odious shows in disgusting locations... I could go on, but there's a lot of reasons I appreciate AEW existing right now. 

[Miller11]

On 04/10/2019 at 21:57, Miller11 said:

Funnily enough I was thinking Jake Roberts. He’s very close to DDP, so there’s an in. He seems to be over his demons, but given his previous it’d be a big risk. One of the greatest on the mic of all time though, and something that would get people talking and tuning in.

Maybe Tony Khan reads this board ?

Seriously though, this has really peaked my interest!

[Mike E]

I think the beauty of AEW is it's condensed a whole package into 2 hours, perfect length to watch something without being burned out, while providing a variety of match styles/lengths.

Meanwhile WWE is pumping out 7 hours of 'the WWE style'. Even a well-written Raw episode is difficult to completely watch at 3hrs. NXT is great, and different to Raw and SD, but even that feels a bit monotonous through one episode.

NXT vs AEW is where the true wrestling excitement lies imo. Keith Lee, Velveteen Dream, Adam Cole, Shayna Baszler, Bianca Belair, Rhea Ripley are future stars for WWE, with Darby Allin, MJF, and Adam Page are the same for AEW. I'd like to see a tag team truly break out too on either brand.

[DE.]

Raw being 3 hours is definitely an issue. With that said though, Smackdown is 2 hours and they still manage to make that drag.

[Mike E]

JAKE THE FUCKING SNAKE, HOLY SHITBALLS ??????

[Miller11]

59 minutes ago, Mike E said:

JAKE THE FUCKING SNAKE, HOLY SHITBALLS ??????

I think he’s going to be managing Luke Harper. This just made his impending debut a million times more exciting!

I hope to god they don’t purely use him as a talent. Him agenting some of there matches is exactly what they need (in my humble opinion). He’s THE master of making everything mean something.

 

[Mike E]

3 hours ago, Miller11 said:

I think he’s going to be managing Luke Harper. This just made his impending debut a million times more exciting!

I hope to god they don’t purely use him as a talent. Him agenting some of there matches is exactly what they need (in my humble opinion). He’s THE master of making everything mean something.

 

I'm amazed that even at his age and with a failing voice, he can still be legit creepy and intimidating.

'Never turn your back on someone you're threatened by or respect.' *immediately turns away and walks off*

I too think he'll fit Brodie Lee rather than Lance Archer (who I view as a sort lone wolf, Vader type of guy).

Edited March 5, 2020 by Mike E

[DE.]

AEW 906k 0.35 demo (5th overall), NXT 718k 0.23 demo (20th overall). Nice post-PPV bump for AEW. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

20 hours ago, Miller11 said:

I think he’s going to be managing Luke Harper. This just made his impending debut a million times more exciting!

I hope to god they don’t purely use him as a talent. Him agenting some of there matches is exactly what they need (in my humble opinion). He’s THE master of making everything mean something.

 

What is agenting? 

Ya, really cool seeing him. Great promo. Cody is involved in some interesting stuff. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

19 hours ago, Mike E said:

I'm amazed that even at his age and with a failing voice, he can still be legit creepy and intimidating.

'Never turn your back on someone you're threatened by or respect.' *immediately turns away and walks off*

I too think he'll fit Brodie Lee rather than Lance Archer (who I view as a sort lone wolf, Vader type of guy).

That would be a good tag-team/stable

[Bigdoggsteel]

I signed up to AEW plus, watched the first hour of Dynamite. Ya, good stuff, it's such a flashback to TNT WCW-I love it

Jericho with a great promo- I have never heard a heel get cheered, then booed, then cheered , then booed again during the same promos. The crowd sing his entrance song. Talk about "being over". I have no problem with Moxley being champ, but he can't cut a promo like Jericho. I like the idea of him being a lone wolf fighting the inner circle. 

They are building a nice roster. I would like to see them sign Eli Drake.  I think he has the potential to be a huge star. 

[DE.]

Colt Cabana joining AEW was a nice touch. There are quite a few from Powerrr who I think could do a solid job for AEW. Drake is an obvious one, but also guys like Ricky Starks and Aron Rex (aka Damien Sandow) could really shine on a bigger stage with more creative freedom. 

The storyline I'm looking forward to the most is the impending civil war between the Elite. It's a matter of time before it explodes between Hangman and the Bucks, at which point Omega and Cody will also have to take sides - with people like Dustin, Arn Anderson, QT Marshall, etc having to choose where their allegiances lie. I think they are priming for a Cody heel turn at some point - although he's so over as a babyface at the moment that it seems too early to turn him already.