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[DE.]

A character like the Fiend only works if he either never loses (impractical) or never wrestles. As soon as either happens the mystique begins to vanish. Very, very few supernatural characters have ever worked in wrestling. Undertaker and Kane are two, but their power lay more in their sheer size and physical presence. The supernatural stuff was mostly alluded to rather than actually shown. 

The Fiend might as well have been retired after Goldberg squashed him to be honest. That was ridiculous and proof that Vince really has lost the plot. 

If it was me I wouldn't have had the Fiend wrestle for a long time. Much like how Sting got insanely over during the end of 1996 and throughout 1997 by being a non-wrestling enigma, the Fiend should have followed a similar path. They hot-shotted the title onto him just because he was getting over, and you could argue that decision ruined the character before it had even really got started. 

Regardless of all of that, the ending of TLC was just way too hokey for me. It was so stupid and ridiculous that it made it impossible to suspend any form of disbelief. Then on Raw the next night it's like nothing happened and nobody cares that a guy they all knew, a son of a WWE Hall of Famer, was set on fire and either horrifically burned or dead. Stuff like this just makes me feel like my intelligence is being insulted. Say what you will about AEW but their creative never produces bottom-of-the-barrel garbage like this.

[Bigdoggsteel]

I suppose really the WWE are making money anyway, so ultimately thy don't care what they put out. It's an awful product now really. It's good AEW and Impact are around, but both have their issues. I was subscribing to AEW, but it just wasn't doing enough for me. It is kind of WCW light, which I am cool with, but there is just a lot of inside wrestling comments/gags going on along with an over reliance on big names, who are put in strange roles. I mean Tazz, Cage and that stupid , pointless belt. Why bring Cage and also say Lance Archer in, only to ultimately make them look weak by jobbing them out when it mattered?

Also, I thought, from following online mostly, that Moxleys reign was pants. Is he just boring? As for Omega, well at least it's a bit more interesting, but what a dweeb that guy is. Maybe you might believe he is tough if you're a Japanese teenage girl. Don Callis is a decent mouthpiece to be fair. Ah they have time and maybe down the road a Cody v Omega feud might be money. There is a fair bit of nepotism going on there alright. I mean a Brandi Rhodes action figure. Did the actual woman's champ even get one? She's easy on the eye, but she has been elevated way beyond her ability on the show in many ways. I'm sure people in the company see that. 

Not against the Bucks being champions. Be more interesting if thy split up though. The TNT title is meh. They need a cruiserweight belt. Hopefully they would actually make that look like it didn't cost €35 to make!

Edited December 22, 2020 by Bigdoggsteel

[DE.]

I believe AEW is making money with their current TNT deal, but also got to remember they've only been around just over a year. They're still a very young company trying to grow their audience. They're almost at TNA's peak levels of viewership despite the wrestling audience being massively diminished compared to how it was in the mid-to-late 2000s. Regardless of what anyone thinks of Cody, Omega and the Bucks they are a draw for a significant audience of nearly 1m people. Jericho and Mox obviously help with that as well, but it shouldn't be underestimated how many fans these guys gained during their time in ROH/NJPW and the independents. All In sold out a 10,000 seater stadium in something like half an hour, after all, and that was way before AEW was even announced. 

At the moment it does feel a bit chaotic in terms of wrestlers being thrown together, storylines mixing, and so on... but I don't really mind that. The company is still settling into its rhythm and finding out what works and what doesn't. For me they've done far more good than bad in their first year and a bit - and it can't be overstated how important it is for the entire wrestling industry to have a viable contender outside of WWE - somewhere wrestlers can go and still get paid well with good exposure if they don't want to work for WWE. TNA had its moment in the sun back in the day but it was never a serious alternative. It was never on a network like TNT and always looked small time. AEW has projected a big time feel right from the off, no matter what you think about Dynamite itself. 

Edited December 22, 2020 by DE.

[DE.]

I should note that even though the ending to TLC was too much for me, the PPV itself was actually pretty good. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

Ya, I think people are just desperate for an alternative and I would certainly agree having AEW more positive than negative. TNA at it's peak was unreal. I got into it just before Cristian Cage, man they were some good years. They made some stars there. AJ Styles the prime example. 

What did you make of Moxley as Champion?

[DE.]

TNA from 2005-2007 was fantastic. Christian Cage, LAX, Sting, Abyss, AJ Styles, Christopher Daniels, Samoa Joe, Kurt Angle, Sonjay Dutt, Amazing Red, Monty Brown, Gail Kim, Awesome Kong... loved that era. Storylines were simple but mostly solid, the matches were great and it was the perfect balance of older stars and younger talent. 2008 was okay too, but starting to wane a little, then it gradually went more and more downhill. 

Overall I enjoyed Mox as champ tbh. His matches against Brodie Lee & Darby Allin were good, and I really liked the build to his match with MJF (although the match itself was so-so). The Eddie Kingston feud came a bit out of nowhere and there was no way Kingston was winning, but they still had some very entertaining segments and the matches they had were fine. The build with Omega was a little underwhelming, felt kinda rushed to get it on the Winter is Coming edition of Dynamite. I would have liked it to have had a longer build. 

I think my biggest gripe with Moxley's reign is that it never felt like he had a really strong opponent who could genuinely beat him until Omega, and then that got rushed a bit. No offence to Brodie Lee, Darby Allin, Eddie Kingston or MJF... but none of them were ever going to beat Mox for the title. AEW is still kinda lacking that star power at the top of the card at the moment. You've got Jericho, Mox, Cody and Omega and... that's kinda it. Cody obviously can't challenge for the title either, so he's out as far as a program for the main title goes. They're trying to build new stars but it takes time and nobody else is really there yet. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

Ya, true. I watched a show on Youtube where a guy reviews TNA from the start. Over the first 2 ever episodes , Styles won the both tag team titles (with Jerry Lynn) and the X-division title. Kind of genius pushing him from the get go like that. I think AEW are missing a trick not doing that, although I suppose Darby Allin is getting a light version of that to a degree. 

[Blue blood]

2 hours ago, DE. said:

I should note that even though the ending to TLC was too much for me, the PPV itself was actually pretty good. 

Yes it was a good show.

The first TLC match was good - .a big fan of MacIntyre who sells well and looks a beast at the same time. Lots of innovative spots, a good story and a bit of a curveball.with the Miz in there. 

Sasha v Carmella was very good. Lots of great counters and near falls. Would have been excellent if Carmella could sell. Still very good mind and Banks is just brilliant. 

Tag title match was good lots of tag team offence, 4 strong competitors and I like the Hurt Business look. Maybe a longer storyline tease too with Alexander at the end. Again it was good but lacking something to make it great like some of NXTs tag matches. 

Women's tag title match was solid. 

Reigns Owens match was good, with a strong storyline if a little long. Personally think they overdid it with 3 sets of interference from Uso. After being taken out - storyline a stomp to the ankle with a chair has historically taken competitors out for longer - 2 more run ins was too much. One final one would have made a much better storyline, surprise and been better for plausibility. 

The fire match - meh. 

So yeah a pretty good event. A way off being great and even ignoring the main event disaster the second TLC match could have done with a bit of fine tuning. Solid watch though. 

 

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

McIntyre looks like an absolute beast. Like compare him to Omega. That's even allowing for the fact McIntyre wears a skirt

[DE.]

Luke Harper/Brodie Lee has died. WTF. The guy was only 41. 

[Dreyski]

Jon Huber (Brodie Lee/Luke Harper) has passed at 41.

Damn. At this time of year, at this point in his career and personal life...

RIP big man.

[Mike E]

Gutted for him. Honestly thought AEW was going to make a star out of him

[Miller11]

Absolutely awful news. Sounds like he was a fantastic human being by all accounts.

Seeing the best and the worst of the wrestling community today. Representatives of both AEW and WWE have been superb, from Vince and Tony Khan down. Very respectful tributes paid, and I’m sure his family will get all their support.

Sadly some of the fans are showing a complete lack of humanity and decency and trying to score points off the company they don’t like. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

Very shocking. What an excellent high flying big man he was. He had clearly slowed down a bit in AEW with the high flying stuff, but was given the opportunity to show he also had it in abundance as a presence in the ring and on the mic. I wonder what happened? It's all very vague. Was it literally that sudden? Scary stuff at his age. So young.

It's rare you se such unanimous praise for someone accross the board. He must have been a great man. RIP. 

 

Edited December 28, 2020 by Bigdoggsteel

[DE.]

12 hours ago, Miller11 said:

Sadly some of the fans are showing a complete lack of humanity and decency and trying to score points off the company they don’t like. 

As I've often seen said, the worst part about wrestling is often wrestling fans themselves.

Unfortunately you can say that about most things, from football to star wars to computer gaming to water polo. Anything that has a hardcore fandom seems to have a loud toxic element who ruin things for everyone else. 

Edited December 28, 2020 by DE.

[Mike E]

Fantastic tribute to Brodie Lee by AEW. All the little things they're doing to support the family are great too.

Only criticism (and it's incredibly minor) is I'd like to have seen more footage from his Indy days.

Edited December 31, 2020 by Mike E

[DE.]

Yeah, super classy from AEW. It was a good show as well. 

[DE.]

I've never watched Being the Elite but this made me laugh. I might have to give it a retrospective viewing. 

 

 

Edited December 31, 2020 by DE.

[DE.]

I tried to sit through Raw this week but it was really tough. How have they made it even worse than it was a couple of months ago? The Alexa Bliss stuff is so hokey and stupid. It's like the writers from Lucha Underground are in charge. 

[Mike E]

7 hours ago, DE. said:

I tried to sit through Raw this week but it was really tough. How have they made it even worse than it was a couple of months ago? The Alexa Bliss stuff is so hokey and stupid. It's like the writers from Lucha Underground are in charge. 

How there can be such a difference between the awful Raw and the relatively coherent Smackdown is beyond me.

Speaking of which, Cesaro vs DB was a wonderful match to watch. Angle has praised it as reminding him of his old matches with Benoit and it's hard to disagree.

[DE.]

35 minutes ago, Mike E said:

How there can be such a difference between the awful Raw and the relatively coherent Smackdown is beyond me.

Speaking of which, Cesaro vs DB was a wonderful match to watch. Angle has praised it as reminding him of his old matches with Benoit and it's hard to disagree.

Smackdown is a decent show at the moment - helped by Roman Reigns' excellent heel turn and general storyline. I think it helps that it's only two hours. Raw's three hour run time makes it feel like a drag.

With that said, even if you cut Raw to two hours it would still mostly be shit based on current storylines.If you look at this week's Raw...

Orton begins the show with a ten minute promo that felt like ten hours. Should have been three of four minutes maximum. Also claims the Fiend and Bliss burned him to try and stop him winning the Rumble... right. Nothing to do with setting the Fiend on fire a few weeks back. Some strange logic going on there.

Charlotte Vs Royce and the whole Lacey Evans/Ric Flair storyline... eh, it's fine I guess. I can't say I particularly care but it isn't horrible.

Matt Riddle - for some reason turned into an insufferable douche. 

Woods Vs Mace - anything with Retribution involved instantly sucks. Awful group that should have been dissolved weeks ago. Actually, should have been dissolved at the creative meetings before the angle even started. Also Mace's finisher looked like shit. I assume he botched it.

Alexa Bliss/Asuka stuff - painful to watch. Asuka comes out of this looking like a joke, and as I mentioned before the hokey nonsense surrounding Bliss is just stupid. So we're supposed to believe the Fiend is now possessing Bliss, assumedly from beyond the grave, and she becomes invincible when she's possessed. I mean... it's not really any worse than what we've seen previously from the Fiend, but I find all of that ridiculous too. 

Baszler/Jax/Mandy Rose/Dana Brooke stuff - who cares? How difficult is it to book Shana Baszler well? Why is she stuck in this boring odd-couple pairing with Nia Jax? 

AJ Styles Vs Ricochet - a good match, but WWE have buried Ricochet to the point of total irrelevency. 

The Dirt Sheet w/Miz, Morrison, Gillberg and fake McIntyre - Miz and Morrison are annoying. The bait and switch with Goldberg/Gillberg is a shitty move. Fake McIntyre wasn't funny. None of this was entertaining. 

Hurt Business/Riddle & Lucha House Party - The Hurt Business are a good faction but have nothing worthwhile going on storyline wise. I don't care about Lucha House Party and Riddle has been made into just another guy, albeit also a total bellend backstage. Seems way too early to be teasing friction and problems in the Hurt Business. Cedric hasn't even been in the group that long.

Jeff Hardy/Elias/Jaxson Ryker... BORING. Terrible use of Hardy.

So basically 13 minutes or so of good stuff with Styles & Ricochet, and that's it. I can understand not being able to hit a home run with every segment, but barely being able to produce anything entertaining in three hours in some achievement. 

 

[Blue blood]

What makes it worse is that the rub up to the Rumble and WM is a) the time for your best storylines, with a fitting climax at WM and b) is made somewhat easier by the presence of these two events. 

Hard to disagree with any of your analysis on Raw. What makes it even more painful is Ricochet and Riddle were super over on NXT and were utter stars in the making. Ricochet can do stuff no one else can, whilst Riddle also had a unique character and look. Both destroyed on the main roster. 

As for Retribution - a good idea horrifically executed. Hurt Business likewise. The best breakups happen when a ton of history is thrown away (The Shield for example) whereas this is the most rushed storyline ever. Vince has done wonders for wrestling but he's firmly on the downward slope now. 

Also - last rant - Goldberg in a main event at the Rumble. Aside from him being terrible these days it's a bit of a kicker to need to rely on him in the main event scene. Smacks of desperation and cluelessness. 

[DE.]

2 hours ago, Blue blood said:

What makes it worse is that the rub up to the Rumble and WM is a) the time for your best storylines, with a fitting climax at WM and b) is made somewhat easier by the presence of these two events. 

Yep, normally if there's one part of the year to rely on for WWE to have decent shows it's the period between January - April. Not necessarily all great but some interesting stuff happening at some levels at least. Raw has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING that interests me. Not one thing. If people enjoy the whole Fiend/Bliss nonsense then I guess they can latch onto that, but I do not. 

2 hours ago, Blue blood said:

Hard to disagree with any of your analysis on Raw. What makes it even more painful is Ricochet and Riddle were super over on NXT and were utter stars in the making. Ricochet can do stuff no one else can, whilst Riddle also had a unique character and look. Both destroyed on the main roster. 

What makes it worse is that this has been happening for years now. Anybody brought up from NXT is instantly devalued within the space of a few weeks and made to feel like just another guy on the roster. They've even achieved that with Keith Lee. It's amazing - like getting over is not the objective at all, and instead trying to bury every NXT callup in the goal.

2 hours ago, Blue blood said:

As for Retribution - a good idea horrifically executed. Hurt Business likewise. The best breakups happen when a ton of history is thrown away (The Shield for example) whereas this is the most rushed storyline ever. Vince has done wonders for wrestling but he's firmly on the downward slope now. 

In the right storyline the Hurt Business could be a very cool faction. Retribution were DOA, pretty much. The stupid masks and promos, the child-level idea of 'anarchy', the nonsensical decision of WWE signing them to contracts, their lack of storyline direction or purpose... it just sucks on any and all metrics. Every member of that group is talented, they deserve much better than this.

2 hours ago, Blue blood said:

Also - last rant - Goldberg in a main event at the Rumble. Aside from him being terrible these days it's a bit of a kicker to need to rely on him in the main event scene. Smacks of desperation and cluelessness. 

I found it weird when Goldberg stormed out to confront Drew and ranted about him disrespecting legends when nothing of the sort had been shown. It made no sense. Turns out they ran out of time and McIntyre never got to the part of the promo Goldberg was meant to be responding to. But Goldberg talked about it as if Drew had delivered the missing part of his promo. Amateur hour and sets the tone for everything else.

Goldberg still has a great look and still works as a destroyer, but that's all he should be. A guy who shows up every so often to spear and jackhammer annoying heels like Miz and Morrison to put them in their place. He has no business being in title matches, and jobbing the Fiend out to him in early 2020 was one of the worst booking decisions I've ever seen. I think McIntyre will beat Goldberg, but it's not been much of a buildup considering Goldberg hasn't been around due to his part-time schedule. Even if Drew hadn't been out with COVID I don't think Goldberg would have shown up until next week anyway. 

Just a huge indictment on the company's inability to build new superstars. Encapsulated this week by having the modern version of AJ Styles in Ricochet be defeated by the 43 year old original who has said he's planning to retire in a couple of years anyway!

[Mike E]

Goldberg at this point should be elevating midcarders ready for the IC/US title scenes, or random hitman-type appearances.

[DE.]

15 minutes ago, Mike E said:

Goldberg at this point should be elevating midcarders ready for the IC/US title scenes, or random hitman-type appearances.

I'd go for the latter, if it was up to me. Goldberg is the type of character that will become worthless pretty quickly if he starts losing to mid-card talent. The only way he maintains his aura is by continuing to look extremely strong. He can get away with the occasional losses to people like Undertaker and McIntyre, but can you imagine if he was beaten by the likes of Xavier Woods, The Miz, Ricochet or Apollo? You might as well just retire him.