Wrestling Entertainment - we know, you don't have to tell us!

[Mike E]

Just now, DE. said:

I'd go for the latter, if it was up to me. Goldberg is the type of character that will become worthless pretty quickly if he starts losing to mid-card talent. The only way he maintains his aura is by continuing to look extremely strong. He can get away with the occasional losses to people like Undertaker and McIntyre, but can you imagine if he was beaten by the likes of Xavier Woods, The Miz, Ricochet or Apollo? You might as well just retire him.

Fair point. To add to your point, best use of Goldberg in recent years was the random Ziggler squash just when we were anticipating a Shawn Michaels clash. Think that was 2019 Summerslam?

[DE.]

1 minute ago, Mike E said:

Fair point. To add to your point, best use of Goldberg in recent years was the random Ziggler squash just when we were anticipating a Shawn Michaels clash. Think that was 2019 Summerslam?

I just wouldn't have Goldberg in matches at all. I don't think it's helpful to anybody. As an enforcer backing someone up? Cool. Anything that stops him from being in an actual match. In fairness I didn't have a problem with his first run back in the company, but it should have ended there.

Different topic but I watched The Resurrection of Jake the Snake for the first time yesterday. I highly, highly recommend it to anybody who hasn't seen it yet. Had me tearing up more than once which is very rare!

[Blue blood]

1 hour ago, DE. said:

Yep, normally if there's one part of the year to rely on for WWE to have decent shows it's the period between January - April. Not necessarily all great but some interesting stuff happening at some levels at least. Raw has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING that interests me. Not one thing. If people enjoy the whole Fiend/Bliss nonsense then I guess they can latch onto that, but I do not. 

It doesn't help when you tank the Fiend character with regular losses. That hurts Alexa Fiend as well as Bray Fiend. Also having her already beat Asuka also takes away some of the mystery of can Asuka cope with this new threat. 

Even if we ignore the booking issues and rather like this storyline - boy it doesn't half leave a lot of dross on the rest of the roster storyline wise. 

1 hour ago, DE. said:

What makes it worse is that this has been happening for years now. Anybody brought up from NXT is instantly devalued within the space of a few weeks and made to feel like just another guy on the roster. They've even achieved that with Keith Lee. It's amazing - like getting over is not the objective at all, and instead trying to bury every NXT callup in the goal.

Worryingly I think they are trying to build Lee! His quick win Vs Orton, putting him with Drew, I think they want him to be a star but they still manage to do it so, so badly. 

Yeah, they have regularly done it which is crazy as they need new stars, loads of the work has already been done in NXT and everyone can tell who the talented performers are. Honestly it shocks me how badly they manage the company with such a regular conveyor belt of talent. It should keep things fresh, exciting and with tons of storyline potential. 

1 hour ago, DE. said:

In the right storyline the Hurt Business could be a very cool faction. Retribution were DOA, pretty much. The stupid masks and promos, the child-level idea of 'anarchy', the nonsensical decision of WWE signing them to contracts, their lack of storyline direction or purpose... it just sucks on any and all metrics. Every member of that group is talented, they deserve much better than this.

Yeah it's not been handled well at all. You forgot to add putting them in a feud with another heel group too! Couldn't have been worse if they tried. 

That said the concept I think could work. Turn up, beat people up, disappear. Then when the "signed" wrestlers do finally get a match or two with Retribution have Retribution win those too. Not hard to build up a stable, have them.beat people up and win matches. Amazing that they don't do this  

1 hour ago, DE. said:

I found it weird when Goldberg stormed out to confront Drew and ranted about him disrespecting legends when nothing of the sort had been shown. It made no sense. Turns out they ran out of time and McIntyre never got to the part of the promo Goldberg was meant to be responding to. But Goldberg talked about it as if Drew had delivered the missing part of his promo. Amateur hour and sets the tone for everything else.

Yeah absolute shambles. That said Goldberg isn't one for promos beyond growling and looking menacing. 

1 hour ago, DE. said:

Goldberg still has a great look and still works as a destroyer, but that's all he should be. A guy who shows up every so often to spear and jackhammer annoying heels like Miz and Morrison to put them in their place. He has no business being in title matches, and jobbing the Fiend out to him in early 2020 was one of the worst booking decisions I've ever seen. I think McIntyre will beat Goldberg, but it's not been much of a buildup considering Goldberg hasn't been around due to his part-time schedule. Even if Drew hadn't been out with COVID I don't think Goldberg would have shown up until next week anyway. 

Agree. Have him total a ton of people with the spear and then it becomes a what if he hits the spear on Drew type situation. Everyone knows he shouldn't be able to hang with Drew but the what if remains.

There are tons of other ways they could have built it up too. Drew becoming patronising/Goldberg taking offence when Drew helps him Vs Orton. Or a Rocky 6 sort of situation where people discuss is Drew/the claymore better than Goldberg/the spear in its prime. Or an accidental spear or claymore to the other in a match. Loads of ways this could be done, but again it's done badly. 

1 hour ago, DE. said:

Just a huge indictment on the company's inability to build new superstars. Encapsulated this week by having the modern version of AJ Styles in Ricochet be defeated by the 43 year old original who has said he's planning to retire in a couple of years anyway!

Yeah they really can't build stars, they really really struggle. I do wonder if it will cost them though as the old timers can't go on forever. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

You would think it would be common sense to protect the fiend and not have him lose so much, so early, but he has. They could have not even put the belt on him and kept him undefeated. They cant see the wood from the trees at times. 

The Goldberg situation is strange. I loved his original run, what a character, but of all legends, him returning just doesn't make sense or appeal to me. Like the main event of the Royal rumble, really? He has never been part of a group, he doesn't do much on the mike, he's old now. Surely there are better options for Mcyntire. Even Seamus makes more sense and they could have a great match with the right stipulation. Rollins either. 

Edited January 21, 2021 by Bigdoggsteel

[DE.]

7 hours ago, Blue blood said:

It doesn't help when you tank the Fiend character with regular losses. That hurts Alexa Fiend as well as Bray Fiend. Also having her already beat Asuka also takes away some of the mystery of can Asuka cope with this new threat. 

The biggest mistake they made was hotshotting the world title onto the Fiend. I knew as soon as that happened that they were going to ruin him. As a character he does not need the belt and having it did nothing for him. He should have stayed away from the title picture for a significant amount of time, beating numerous credible challengers before finally coming for the top guy - not because he wanted to be the world champ, but just because he wanted to fuck with that person by taking away the thing that was most important to them. After that have him hold the belt for a long time before somebody finally takes him down at Wrestlemania. It really isn't that difficult to book, and I don't know why WWE has such a hard time just sticking to simple, effective storylines. 

7 hours ago, Blue blood said:

Worryingly I think they are trying to build Lee! His quick win Vs Orton, putting him with Drew, I think they want him to be a star but they still manage to do it so, so badly. 

Yeah, they have regularly done it which is crazy as they need new stars, loads of the work has already been done in NXT and everyone can tell who the talented performers are. Honestly it shocks me how badly they manage the company with such a regular conveyor belt of talent. It should keep things fresh, exciting and with tons of storyline potential. 

As soon as they changed his music you knew there was trouble ahead. He started off strong but has lost so much momentum since then. Such a shame as the dude is a huge talent and unlike anybody else on the roster with his promos and in-ring ability relative to his size. 

The problem with NXT is that Vince just doesn't get it. He doesn't understand it and doesn't think any of that will translate to the main roster. Thus every NXT star is put through the main roster "filter" and stripped of practically everything that made them successful in NXT.

The thing about NXT, in the past at least, is that they told simple storylines. You understand the character's motivations, you're invested in the stories because they are simple but realistic, and the wrestlers are given the freedom to express themselves creatively. Those who can handle that quickly rise to the top, whilst those that can't disappear. NXT rewards the most talented and interesting performers - Raw and to a lesser extent Smackdown punish those same performers if they don't conform to the "WWE way" and keep beating them down until they either get with the program and become just another guy/girl, or fail to adapt and get buried. 

7 hours ago, Blue blood said:

Yeah it's not been handled well at all. You forgot to add putting them in a feud with another heel group too! Couldn't have been worse if they tried. 

That said the concept I think could work. Turn up, beat people up, disappear. Then when the "signed" wrestlers do finally get a match or two with Retribution have Retribution win those too. Not hard to build up a stable, have them.beat people up and win matches. Amazing that they don't do this  

Oh yeah, having them start off by feuding with heels made ZERO sense. Also from memory they didn't even win their first official match. I'm sure it was a DQ or something. I actually also forgot to mention the hilariously bad and childish names. T-Bar, Mace, Slapjack... then Lawler stating that T-Bar stands for "That Boy Ain't Right". It was like they were trying to turn them into a joke on purpose. I actually think Dio Madden/Mace has kind of a cool look and mannerisms. That chararcter could work as a singles competitor. As part of this group not so much. 

Problem with WWE is that they simply cannot do any kind of "invasion" storyline properly, going all the way back to the original invasion back in 2001. I won't even go into how they fucked up The Nexus. Retribution didn't quite have the same hot start but it was the same basic formula, followed by WWE doing their usual and turning the invaders into glorified jobbers who are quickly proven to be no real threat. It happens every time and I don't understand why they keep doing it. 

7 hours ago, Blue blood said:

Yeah absolute shambles. That said Goldberg isn't one for promos beyond growling and looking menacing. 

Agree. Have him total a ton of people with the spear and then it becomes a what if he hits the spear on Drew type situation. Everyone knows he shouldn't be able to hang with Drew but the what if remains.

In fairness to Goldberg he's a lot better at promos now than he used to be. Still nothing amazing, but he seems a lot more comfortable behind a mic now than he was 15-20 years ago. 

Really though his character was never about talking. It was just about appearing, smashing through people and leaving. Not a character with much of a shelf life but a star that burned brightly for a while. That's all he needs to be in WWE. Show up, do a few spears and jackhammers, leave. Maybe every so often have him squash a small time heel to get their comeuppance over something. That's it. 

7 hours ago, Blue blood said:

Yeah they really can't build stars, they really really struggle. I do wonder if it will cost them though as the old timers can't go on forever. 

I think it's already costing them to some degree. You only have to look at their ratings and audience share as proof of that. They do well in the 50+ demographic but not so well in any of the others. I think Dynamite actually beat Raw in the 18-35 demo a few weeks back. They get ratings spikes when the legends come in because they've trained their audience to believe attitude era guys >>>> any modern talent. It's a really backwards way of thinking and it's not going to be a pit that is easy for them to crawl out of, especially considering how they have decimated their younger viewership over the past decade. 

[DE.]

5 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

You would think it would be common sense to protect the fiend and not have him lose so much, so early, but he has. They could have not even put the belt on him and kept him undefeated. They cant see the wood from the trees at times. 

Yep, the Fiend had no need for the belt and putting it on him only constrained and weakened the character. They also did their usual of going way, way over the top with the supernatural stuff. Look at the early firefly funhouse segments - did it really need to go into this silly, spooky shit? Couldn't Bray have just been a dude with a major personality disorder brought on by years of failure? The Fiend did not need to be booked with LITERAL superpowers. It would have been enough to just say Bray gets a physical and psychological boost from engaging the Fiend persona, not too dissimilar to Finn Balor and his 'demon' character. Why did it have to turn into parallel universes, possession, burning to death, etc? I'm not saying wrestling always has to be realistic, but at the same time when it goes this far I just find it too ridiculous to enjoy. 

[DE.]

A great example of a monster type character booked well is Kane in 1997-1998. An incredibly intimidating look, extremely powerful, crushed numerous members of the roster and was able to match one of the strongest wrestlers in the company in the Undertaker. 

Kane was often referred to as a 'demon', coming from hell, etc. He engaged in some minor 'supernatural' stuff like shooting lightning from the arena ceiling a couple of times, but the vast majority of what he did was realistic. The character wasn't realistic, but his actions were. He always felt like a huge threat and a force to be reckoned with, but he never resorted to teleporting, possessing people, bringing people to alternate dimensions and other assorted bullshit. More than anything I think WWE has lost that link between making superstars larger than life but still making them feel like real people doing realistic things. Often they manage to do neither which is even worse.

As far as booking a wrestler who doesn't actually wrestle, look no further than Sting in late-1996 and almost all of 1997. Didn't wrestle a single match for over a year but was the most over wrestler in the entire company. He didn't always show up, but when he did it mattered. He didn't even need to cut promos. His presence and aura was enough to hook people in. He very rarely let anybody get the better of him, but he appeared infrequently enough that it never felt like he was burying anybody with his invincibility. Of course it all went to shit when they eventually did have him start wrestling again, but if WCW could hold back for over a year, why did WWE have to rush the Fiend into not only wrestling but winning the title? Sting Vs Hogan was such a huge deal BECAUSE Sting had built up such an incredible aura from not wrestling and not showing up every week. Sometimes less really is more.

[Miller11]

Anybody tuning in to the Rumble tomorrow?

I’m well out of the loop with most of the current product. I’ve found the vast majority of their recent programming boring or stupid, and I find AEW’s irritating and stupid, but I’m always hopeful for the rumble.

A couple of surprises would be nice, nostalgic ones preferably. Seeing Daniel Bryan is being touted as the favourite... I can get on board with that.

[Mike E]

47 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

Anybody tuning in to the Rumble tomorrow?

I’m well out of the loop with most of the current product. I’ve found the vast majority of their recent programming boring or stupid, and I find AEW’s irritating and stupid, but I’m always hopeful for the rumble.

A couple of surprises would be nice, nostalgic ones preferably. Seeing Daniel Bryan is being touted as the favourite... I can get on board with that.

I'm working the next day but a few predictions:

Goldberg vs McIntyre: Miz to cash in and win.

Rumble returns:

Men's: Kane, Scotty2Hotty, Rollins at No30 to win.

Women's: Victoria, Molly Holly, Rousey at No2 for DAT POP. Ripley to win.

Edited January 30, 2021 by Mike E

[Miller11]

1 hour ago, Mike E said:

I'm working the next day but a few predictions:

Goldberg vs McIntyre: Miz to cash in and win.

Rumble returns:

Men's: Kane, Scotty2Hotty, Rollins at No30 to win.

Women's: Victoria, Molly Holly, Rousey at No2 for DAT POP. Ripley to win.

Can see all of that happening.

Hoping against hope you are wrong with Rollins though. That would be as boring as everything else they are doing.

[Mike E]

16 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

Can see all of that happening.

Hoping against hope you are wrong with Rollins though. That would be as boring as everything else they are doing.

Agreed. My hope is for another 'workhorse win' a la McIntyre. Someone like Cesaro or Big E.

[Blue blood]

Probably won't stay up for it due to work but will catch up the next night or so. 

The idea of Goldberg or Mix as champion cannot get more off-putting if they tried. (Also didn't Miz fail his cash in at TLC? The briefcase has been terribly used this year.) Talk about developing stars, WWE really struggles with this. 

Men's Rumble - feel Orton, Fiend or Rollins. Agree should use it to elevate non main event stars though. Rollins is very talented so wouldn't be too gutted with a win for him. Either of the other two would be meh. 

Women's Rumble - it will be either Charlotte or Alexa Fiend/Bliss. Neither are an inspiring choice imo as both have been overused in the main event picture. There are a ton of very talented women though so hoping for a surprise win. 

[Mike E]

1 hour ago, Blue blood said:

Probably won't stay up for it due to work but will catch up the next night or so. 

The idea of Goldberg or Mix as champion cannot get more off-putting if they tried. (Also didn't Miz fail his cash in at TLC? The briefcase has been terribly used this year.) Talk about developing stars, WWE really struggles with this. 

Men's Rumble - feel Orton, Fiend or Rollins. Agree should use it to elevate non main event stars though. Rollins is very talented so wouldn't be too gutted with a win for him. Either of the other two would be meh. 

Women's Rumble - it will be either Charlotte or Alexa Fiend/Bliss. Neither are an inspiring choice imo as both have been overused in the main event picture. There are a ton of very talented women though so hoping for a surprise win. 

I feel as though they think a Miz cash in would keep both McIntyre and Goldberg strong.

If they had their wits about them, they'd have Miz cash-in in such a way that it screws both men over. I reckon Goldberg spears McIntyre laying him out, Miz interrupts the Jackhammer by smashing Goldberg with the briefcase then cashing in to make a 'triple threat' then pinning Goldberg.

Miz brags and brags about pinning Goldberg to become champ. Leads to McIntyre vs Miz for title at Fastlane (McIntyre wins back title he never lost and moves on).

Then Goldberg returns at EC to take out Miz (use the 'disrespecting a legend' story) setting up the match at WM, where Goldberg gets his pointless win back.

 

Re: Rumble winner, I can see them going the 'Rollins vs Reigns' route but should save it for Summerslam imo.

[Blue blood]

2 hours ago, Mike E said:

I feel as though they think a Miz cash in would keep both McIntyre and Goldberg strong.

If they had their wits about them, they'd have Miz cash-in in such a way that it screws both men over. I reckon Goldberg spears McIntyre laying him out, Miz interrupts the Jackhammer by smashing Goldberg with the briefcase then cashing in to make a 'triple threat' then pinning Goldberg.

Miz brags and brags about pinning Goldberg to become champ. Leads to McIntyre vs Miz for title at Fastlane (McIntyre wins back title he never lost and moves on).

Then Goldberg returns at EC to take out Miz (use the 'disrespecting a legend' story) setting up the match at WM, where Goldberg gets his pointless win back.

 

Re: Rumble winner, I can see them going the 'Rollins vs Reigns' route but should save it for Summerslam imo.

Can't argue with much of your logic although why Goldberg needs to be kept strong or used in matches at all is beyond me. Also am not enthused about a Mix win either. Should be nowhere near the title picture even with the east access of the MITB briefcase. However it is what it is and if comes down to how badly they will mess it up. Goldberg's matches can't be made any worse with interference. 

Rollins/Reigns I could get on board with. Would like a longer build up than a month or two but it would still be solid. Rollins is great and would make Reigns look like a monster. Hopefully with Rollins as face they actually do some background into making him face rather than ignoring most of his 2020 run. Would still prefer a break out star to win but this could still work. 

 

[DE.]

I'm honestly not sure who is going to win the Rumble this year. I would have loved to see Keith Lee win it, but Mia Yim has been diagnosed with covid and Lee hasn't been on Raw for a couple of weeks... so it's possible he won't even be in the Rumble. 

Sheamus is a possibility, as they've been building to him potentially turning on Drew at some point. Not sure McIntyre Vs Sheamus is the big WM match they want though. 

As far as McIntyre Vs Goldberg, anything other than a clean win for Drew is going to be shit. Miz (along with Morrison) has been booked into total oblivion. Nobody cares about them and they are the most annoying part of Raw or Smackdown. Miz having the briefcase is a complete waste. They'd have been better off leaving it with Otis in all honestly.

Edited January 31, 2021 by DE.

[Gav]

Just had an email alert to tell me The Royal Rumble has been bought for later tonight.....

Don’t think I’ll be tuning in, but my son tells me a Zoom gathering is on the cards.

Hulkamania - Is that still a thing?

Edited January 31, 2021 by Gav

[DE.]

Hulkamania had a bit of a downturn after Hulk was caught on camera admitting to being a racist in 2015. He comes back on occasion now for cameos but that's about it. 

[Mike E]

To add to my 'Rousey at No2' prediction, have Bayszler in at No1. That is a programme that deserves WM and it can start tonight.

[Mike E]

Great outcomes in the McIntyre vs Goldberg and Women's Rumble thus far!

Feels as though WWE may be definitively investing in the future at long last.

Edited February 1, 2021 by Mike E

[Miller11]

The show started off well. Goldberg and McIntyre was the best booked thing all night. 

Carmella v Banks was decent.

The women’s rumble was messy and eliminations needed pacing better. As an irregular viewer I don’t get the hype around Bianca Belair. There’s a big difference between making new stars and giving everybody a go at the top. Flair is the biggest star in Women’s wrestling for several generations and will remain so. Rhea Ripley has got it all though and either seemed a better choice of winner.

The whole 24/7 thing is shit.

Reigns v Owens was exactly as expected. Spots over story, with finding new ways to jump off things being more important than logic. The ref who just gave up on counting when Paul E couldn’t unlock the cuffs just botched bigger than that Jericho Lionsault the other week.

WWE production values are always great, but at times this verged on being over the top. Some strange camera work and frantic angle changes that threatened to induce seizures. Not Kevin Dunn’s finest hour.

Its becoming far too frequent that people who join rumbles early go all the way. It was almost an afterthought that Edge drew number one. Christian’s return was brilliant and I’d be much more invested in the idea of a long term reunion with him and Edge than Edge in a title program. So glad Rollins didn’t win, the Orton injury thing had little to no payoff, some nice cameos, Miz thing was pathetic, Damian Priest looks the business, strap a rocket to Bobby Lashley, Style’s big man adds an interesting dynamic, Riddle and Big E had good nights too.

 

[Mike E]

Imo Edge winning the Rumble is fine, same logic as DBryan in my opinion. However, I hope he's used to elevate the champ rather than get another title reign.

I suspect, however, that his win means there'll be a third man introduced to the fray come WM.

[Mike E]

Side note: Carlito was SHREDDED! Is he back for another run, I wonder?

[Miller11]

24 minutes ago, Mike E said:

Side note: Carlito was SHREDDED! Is he back for another run, I wonder?

Yeah, he looked great! Would be nice to see him get a bit of a run.

[DE.]

Overall I thought it was a solid PPV.

Drew/Goldberg was booked pretty much perfectly. The match was short enough to hide Goldberg's weaknesses, but he still looked fairly strong in defeat which made McIntyre's win seem impressive. 

Banks/Carmella was good - not quite as good as their last match but still solid. Carmella has improved a lot in the past couple of years, and I think Reginald is an entertaining addition to her act. Banks going over makes sense. Nothing wrong with this one.

I actually quite enjoyed the women's rumble match. There have been reports of Vince being very high on Belair, so no surprise they are strapping the rocket to her. Ripley winning would have been good as well, but as she's on NXT and Belair is on Smackdown it makes more sense to have Belair go over this year. It was cool to see Victoria again. The 24/7 nonsense during the match was poor form and unnecessary. Not even going to comment on Rosenberg winning it.

Reigns/Owens was fine, I guess, but I'm burnt out on this feud. Already feels like they've had too many brutal matches so this was just another one to add to the list. I never felt like Owens had a chance of winning and the botched ending was dumb. Time for both to move on to something else.

The men's rumble was OK, but nothing special. It was great to see Carlito, who is in amazing shape. He has been talking about doing another WWE run for a while, so hopefully this is more than just a one off. He was one of my favourites back in the mid-2000s. Christian showing up was a welcome surprise too. 

Edge winning is a great story, and I don't have a problem with it, but it does still point to WWE being unable to create new stars to carry the company. I'd rather Edge win it than Rollins, Strowman and Orton though, so it worked for me. I'm wondering if Sheamus and/or Keith Lee somehow get added to the title mix to set up a three or four-way match at Wrestlemania. Edge Vs McIntyre would be fine, but I just don't know if it's big enough to feel Wrestlemania special. I guess they have a few months to get there. 

[Blue blood]

Caught up on Rumble. 

Goldberg Vs Drew was better than k thought it would be which was a bonus. That said I'm not a fan of 2 move matches. They are boring and repetitive. That said they did the best of a bad job and inoffensive is a compliment in this case. 

Banks - Carmella solid. Their match at TLC, which I thought was good, was better. 

Women's Rumble I really liked. Decent to good all the way through bar the 24/7 nonsense (which was totally unnecessary) and the right final 3 made a good ending. All three were credible challengers, all three came out looking good and it was a mild and pleasing surprise Belair won. 

Personally having seen her work in NXT I think Belair deserves a shot at the title and a title run. She was really popular in NXT, had some good matches and has a surprising mix of speed and strength that is impressive. Glad she has got the spotlight as I felt she could have had more of it in NXT. Think she will rise to the role. 

Reigns Owens terrible ending. It ruined the credibility of wrestling when the referee has to stop counting like that. Wonder what they would have done had fans been in the arena? (Remember Razor won the IC title when Jarrett couldn't climb a ladder in time to keep things realistic.) As it was the said botch might have well have just plastered all over the screen wrestling is fake as it destroyed all credibility and drama. The rest of the match I thought was also overdone (there were too many big, nay huge, false finishes) but actually had me watching and curious in a "how far over the top will they go?" kind of way. 

Male Rumble - very good until the finish . Lots of rivalries were picked up on in the Rumble which is as it should be, a few people really got to shine (Priest and Riddle) and a good mix of contenders and surprise entrants. Good storytelling. 

And then we got to the final 4 or 5. When Christian and Strowman are two of them it lessens the drama as you know neither has a chance. Orton's run in not working was a bonus and nice switch on the usual formula, but even so Edge winning? He's one of my favourites but he totally didn't need the win. WWE struggle to raise stars as it is. The Rumble is one of the few places left they can do it well. To blow such a shot on Edge seems so shortsighted and wasteful, especially in light of what the Rumble did for Drew last year. Perhaps if the final 4 had been better if would have helped but the two things combined really left an unsatisfactory taste. Shame as up to then it was going really well. 

So an ok PPV for me. The Rumbles are worth watching but the ending of the men's tips it more towards meh than great. At least there was no Fiend theatrics making things worse.