Wrestling Entertainment - we know, you don't have to tell us!

[DE.]

Just finished AEW Double or Nothing. An excellent show, really really good. It was nice for a decent live crowd to finally be at an AEW event again, and it definitely made a difference. 

[DE.]

Some surprising WWE releases today.

- Braun Strowman
- Aleister Black
- Ruby Riott
- Lana
- Santana Garrett
- Buddy Murphy

The first two especially are proper WTF. Strowman is a main event talent who only signed a new contract a couple of years ago through to 2023, whilst Black literally just begun an angle after a month plus of vignettes last week. 

Whilst I don't care much for Strowman as a person, WWE missed the boat on him massively back in 2017. They should have put the belt on him when he was hugely over, didn't, and he's pretty much floundered since then. 

Black is a unique wrestler with huge upside, arguably the most interesting and well-rounded performer since the Undertaker when it comes to a 'darker' persona (Bray is a great promo but I've always found his matches extremely boring). It's no longer a surprise when WWE screws up what should be a surefire thing, but I do wonder how Triple H feels about it. He does such a great job building these performers up in NXT only to watch Vince completely wreck them when they get to the main roster. It must be disheartening, at the very least.

Ruby Riott deserved much better than she got. Riott Squad should have been tag champions at some point and Ruby could have held her own with the likes of Charlotte, Becky, Bayley, Sasha etc. Another real talent wasted, but hopefully AEW will sign her ASAP to beef up their women's division. I actually have faith in AEW doing something useful with her. 

Lana, meh. Not a great promo and not a great wrestler. She was a throwback to an era when women just had to look hot and not actually be any good in the ring. With that said she played the manager role with Rusev well - she just had nothing to offer after that. Personally if I was Tony Khan I wouldn't be rushing to bring Lana in. The Miro character doesn't need her, and I don't think she brings enough to the table as a manager or a wrestler to be worth signing. Could be useful to a company like Impact or the NWA, though.

Santana Garrett - I don't know anything about her.

Buddy Murphy - who would have thought during the storyline with Seth Rollins and the Mysterios that Murphy would be released less than a year later? Everything seemed to be on the up for him, and then suddenly he was taken off TV and eventually released. Makes you wonder how people at WWE stay motivated - even if you do a great job and seem to be in a good place, there's absolutely zero guarantee that within a few months you won't be out the door - for no real reason other than "budget cuts" for a company that has made more profit in the past two years than ever in its history. 

 

Edited June 2, 2021 by DE.

[Mike E]

Liv Morgan, Keith Lee, Angel Garza, Humberto Carillo all rumoured too.

[DE.]

So apparently the third hour of Raw got a 1.1 rating, which is abysmally low. Something like 400,000 viewers switched off after the second hour (keeping in mind the viewership was low as it is). Granted it was a holiday in the US, but even on previous holidays their ratings/viewership has never sunk that low.

I mean, I get it as Raw is garbage and I'm shocked over a million people still watch such a terrible show, but if WWE are even starting to turn away their core viewers then they need to realise there is a huge problem.

[Blue blood]

@DE.

Yeah there's some real head scratchers in the release. I keep saying it but they waste so much of what has been done in NXT. Black has a great character and is a good performer too so it's criminal he has been wasted. Looking at his battles in NXT and you realise how much they are missing. 

Murphy is another talented performer and as you say, was doing everything right and yet still is released. It's an odd do, as again it doesn't seem to be on merit whatsoever. Talent, performance, character - not sure any of these criteria are being considered in the releases. 

Riott another criminally underused. Riott squad were easily the best and most over women's tag team at WM and should have won. Odd decision again. 

I will say Braun is one I am not too bothered about as find him boring and not really a main event level player. That said given he was in the title picture at Backlash it speaks of really poor planning and unusual decision making by WWE. 

As for low ratings. Years of short termism, under using talent and poor story telling is coming home to roost. A bit more coherent planning and consistency and I doubt half their problems would exist. 

Interestingly watched NXT (am a week behind on the Network) and it was a great show. Three really good matches including a great title match, storyline advancement and development, stuff to look forward to. It was great. A bit more of that on the main roster and it would be in a stronger place. 

 

[DE.]

6 hours ago, Blue blood said:

@DE.

Yeah there's some real head scratchers in the release. I keep saying it but they waste so much of what has been done in NXT. Black has a great character and is a good performer too so it's criminal he has been wasted. Looking at his battles in NXT and you realise how much they are missing. 

Murphy is another talented performer and as you say, was doing everything right and yet still is released. It's an odd do, as again it doesn't seem to be on merit whatsoever. Talent, performance, character - not sure any of these criteria are being considered in the releases. 

Riott another criminally underused. Riott squad were easily the best and most over women's tag team at WM and should have won. Odd decision again. 

I will say Braun is one I am not too bothered about as find him boring and not really a main event level player. That said given he was in the title picture at Backlash it speaks of really poor planning and unusual decision making by WWE. 

As for low ratings. Years of short termism, under using talent and poor story telling is coming home to roost. A bit more coherent planning and consistency and I doubt half their problems would exist. 

Interestingly watched NXT (am a week behind on the Network) and it was a great show. Three really good matches including a great title match, storyline advancement and development, stuff to look forward to. It was great. A bit more of that on the main roster and it would be in a stronger place. 

 

I'm with you on Braun. He had a good run in 2017/18, particularly during his feud with Roman, but has become less and less interesting since then. His last feud with Shane McMahon was embarrassingly bad, although that is more on creative than Braun. It's still strange that they terminated him though, considering he has the kind of beef Vince can usually only dream about.

I was watching Black's twitch stream post-release and it's incredible how much thought he put into all of his promos and matches, even down to details like colour and lighting. The guy is seriously switched on and as you say, it's criminal how he was used. I know Vince Russo gets shit on a lot these days, and often rightfully so, but I guarantee if Black had been around during the Attitude Era Russo would have listened to his ideas and gave his character memorable and interesting things to do. Everyone remembers acts like the Brood and 98-99 Undertaker. Black has just been at WWE in the wrong era, unfortunately. AEW could do huge things with him though, and I hope they do. 

Black and Riott would be the two I would pick up if I was AEW. Murphy could do great things in Impact/NJPW. Not sure about Braun. He might just sit it out for a while and come back to WWE on a much lower deal. He strikes me as a WWE lifer.

[Mike E]

11 minutes ago, DE. said:

I'm with you on Braun. He had a good run in 2017/18, particularly during his feud with Roman, but has become less and less interesting since then. His last feud with Shane McMahon was embarrassingly bad, although that is more on creative than Braun. It's still strange that they terminated him though, considering he has the kind of beef Vince can usually only dream about.

I was watching Black's twitch stream post-release and it's incredible how much thought he put into all of his promos and matches, even down to details like colour and lighting. The guy is seriously switched on and as you say, it's criminal how he was used. I know Vince Russo gets shit on a lot these days, and often rightfully so, but I guarantee if Black had been around during the Attitude Era Russo would have listened to his ideas and gave his character memorable and interesting things to do. Everyone remembers acts like the Brood and 98-99 Undertaker. Black has just been at WWE in the wrong era, unfortunately. AEW could do huge things with him though, and I hope they do. 

Black and Riott would be the two I would pick up if I was AEW. Murphy could do great things in Impact/NJPW. Not sure about Braun. He might just sit it out for a while and come back to WWE on a much lower deal. He strikes me as a WWE lifer.

I feel like Braun should go to Japan and be an absolute unit. A bit like Albert making it over there as Tensai.

[DE.]

59 minutes ago, Mike E said:

I feel like Braun should go to Japan and be an absolute unit. A bit like Albert making it over there as Tensai.

Japan does love a big Gaijin monster - just a case of whether Braun could handle the way wrestling works over there, I guess.

[Dreyski]

A 21st century Vader, if you will.

Agree on AEW trying for Black and Riott (or Tommy End & Heidi Lovelace?) but I wouldn’t be averse to Lana reuniting with Miro, as a Penelope Ford type character rather than an active in-ring competitor.

[Bigdoggsteel]

On 02/06/2021 at 20:44, DE. said:

Some surprising WWE releases today.

- Braun Strowman
- Aleister Black
- Ruby Riott
- Lana
- Santana Garrett
- Buddy Murphy

The first two especially are proper WTF. Strowman is a main event talent who only signed a new contract a couple of years ago through to 2023, whilst Black literally just begun an angle after a month plus of vignettes last week. 

Whilst I don't care much for Strowman as a person, WWE missed the boat on him massively back in 2017. They should have put the belt on him when he was hugely over, didn't, and he's pretty much floundered since then. 

Black is a unique wrestler with huge upside, arguably the most interesting and well-rounded performer since the Undertaker when it comes to a 'darker' persona (Bray is a great promo but I've always found his matches extremely boring). It's no longer a surprise when WWE screws up what should be a surefire thing, but I do wonder how Triple H feels about it. He does such a great job building these performers up in NXT only to watch Vince completely wreck them when they get to the main roster. It must be disheartening, at the very least.

Ruby Riott deserved much better than she got. Riott Squad should have been tag champions at some point and Ruby could have held her own with the likes of Charlotte, Becky, Bayley, Sasha etc. Another real talent wasted, but hopefully AEW will sign her ASAP to beef up their women's division. I actually have faith in AEW doing something useful with her. 

Lana, meh. Not a great promo and not a great wrestler. She was a throwback to an era when women just had to look hot and not actually be any good in the ring. With that said she played the manager role with Rusev well - she just had nothing to offer after that. Personally if I was Tony Khan I wouldn't be rushing to bring Lana in. The Miro character doesn't need her, and I don't think she brings enough to the table as a manager or a wrestler to be worth signing. Could be useful to a company like Impact or the NWA, though.

Santana Garrett - I don't know anything about her.

Buddy Murphy - who would have thought during the storyline with Seth Rollins and the Mysterios that Murphy would be released less than a year later? Everything seemed to be on the up for him, and then suddenly he was taken off TV and eventually released. Makes you wonder how people at WWE stay motivated - even if you do a great job and seem to be in a good place, there's absolutely zero guarantee that within a few months you won't be out the door - for no real reason other than "budget cuts" for a company that has made more profit in the past two years than ever in its history. 

 

Why don't you like Braun? He does seem a bit arrogant I think. I think it makes sense to release him. Big earner, but so many top guys ahead of him 

Completely agree on Lana. Impact for her , at best. 

Whats crazy abut Black is they just teased an interesting new gimmick. What is going on there that things like that happen? 

Keith Lee being released would be serous WTF. He had the trajectory of a rocket

Read a rumour yesterday WWE might be sold 

[Blue blood]

3 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Why don't you like Braun? He does seem a bit arrogant I think. I think it makes sense to release him. Big earner, but so many top guys ahead of him 

Personally I don't think he is that good in the ring. He's not quite got the presence of a Vader - he lacks a certain menace. Of course this could be in part how badly he is booked, WWE is appalling at building characters up on the main roster. But he isn't that good in the ring compared to some big men, not amazing on the mic. Add in the booking and lack of threat and he's meh for me on all fronts. How many really good matches has he had for example? 

3 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Completely agree on Lana. Impact for her , at best. 

Whats crazy abut Black is they just teased an interesting new gimmick. What is going on there that things like that happen? 

Yes that is bizzare on all levels. What are they thinking with their start stop pushes. No planning at all it seems. 

3 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Keith Lee being released would be serous WTF. He had the trajectory of a rocket

Indeed. That would be mental. If they can't work well with performers like that then they really will struggle. 

3 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

 

Read a rumour yesterday WWE might be sold 

Interesting. Given how much they are struggling whilst holding the best hand of cards you could see why. Always thought giving it to Triple H would massively help them. 

 

[DE.]

On 04/06/2021 at 06:36, Dreyski said:

A 21st century Vader, if you will.

Agree on AEW trying for Black and Riott (or Tommy End & Heidi Lovelace?) but I wouldn’t be averse to Lana reuniting with Miro, as a Penelope Ford type character rather than an active in-ring competitor.

Honestly I don't think Miro needs her. What would concern me about that is AEW trying to come off as WWE-lite. I wouldn't be averse to introducing Lana a lot further down the line, when the Miro character needs a fresh boost, but right now he's doing well after a lukewarm start, so I'd leave him as he is.

On 04/06/2021 at 09:15, Bigdoggsteel said:

Why don't you like Braun? He does seem a bit arrogant I think. I think it makes sense to release him. Big earner, but so many top guys ahead of him 

On a personal level because he was a real dickhead last year when indie wrestlers were struggling during the pandemic. As a wrestler he's fine but needs to work outside of WWE to become a better rounded performer.

On 04/06/2021 at 09:15, Bigdoggsteel said:

Whats crazy abut Black is they just teased an interesting new gimmick. What is going on there that things like that happen? 

The left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing, I guess. Smackdown creative must be banging their heads against the wall. 

On 04/06/2021 at 09:15, Bigdoggsteel said:

Keith Lee being released would be serous WTF. He had the trajectory of a rocket

I don't think he's being released, but something weird is going on with him for sure. He's been off TV for a long time now and keeps posting strange, cryptic tweets on Twitter. Not sure if it's a mental health thing, an illness or something else, but it's a shame he's not around as he's a really interesting character and a good performer. Vince has still done his best to neuter everything unique about him since the NXT call up, though, so maybe it's better he stays away.

On 04/06/2021 at 09:15, Bigdoggsteel said:

Read a rumour yesterday WWE might be sold 

It's been rumoured for a couple of years now, no idea if there's any truth to it. If there was any time that everything points towards a sale, though, it's now. Have to admit I've always believed Vince would die owning the company, but maybe something is forcing his hand? WWE not owned by the McMahons would be really bizarre, but I don't think a new owner could do any worse as far as Raw is concerned.

22 hours ago, Blue blood said:

Personally I don't think he is that good in the ring. He's not quite got the presence of a Vader - he lacks a certain menace. Of course this could be in part how badly he is booked, WWE is appalling at building characters up on the main roster. But he isn't that good in the ring compared to some big men, not amazing on the mic. Add in the booking and lack of threat and he's meh for me on all fronts. How many really good matches has he had for example?

Agree, this is why I think Braun would benefit from going somewhere like Japan to hone his craft. He's only ever known the WWE style and it shows. He could be great, but he needs seasoning elsewhere.

[JBiz]

Had a go at watching some AEW on itv4 recently, and have to say it’s far more engaging than anything else I’ve seen from WWE for 15 years, including NXT and wrestlemania.

Still - it’s quite sad that the two best commentators are from the 80s, aka JR and “Shivontay”..

Fact Ross is using “Arnold Palmer” references in 2021, probably sums up my issue with this aspect of AEW.

[Mike E]

1 hour ago, JBiz said:

Had a go at watching some AEW on itv4 recently, and have to say it’s far more engaging than anything else I’ve seen from WWE for 15 years, including NXT and wrestlemania.

Still - it’s quite sad that the two best commentators are from the 80s, aka JR and “Shivontay”..

Fact Ross is using “Arnold Palmer” references in 2021, probably sums up my issue with this aspect of AEW.

My wife hates wrestling. Like, properly hates it. She'll argue with me every time I want to put it on.

But not AEW, she'll watch that. She even occasionally chirps in with 'how cool' it is when aspects of matches fit what went before or tie in to promos etc.

However, they do need to tidy up the women's division a bit. Not half as engaging performers as Flair, Lynch, Banks, or Bayley. Although imo Deeb is better than them all.

[JBiz]

3 hours ago, Mike E said:

My wife hates wrestling. Like, properly hates it. She'll argue with me every time I want to put it on.

But not AEW, she'll watch that. She even occasionally chirps in with 'how cool' it is when aspects of matches fit what went before or tie in to promos etc.

However, they do need to tidy up the women's division a bit. Not half as engaging performers as Flair, Lynch, Banks, or Bayley. Although imo Deeb is better than them all.

Actually one thing nxt and then wwe did well (which you mention) that I remember specifically being interested in the matches - the women’s division after getting rid of the “diva’s” name.

Thing about wrestling the layman wouldn’t understand- there’s different reasons for being interested, from the soap opera part, the fighting, the technical/physical element or even just the sheer “show value” - the stuff that grabbed me as a child was a nice mixture of all but decent characters to lean on- AEW seems to have this. 
 

Only wrestling content I’ve watched regularly in the previous few years other than this is OSW(youtube / patr won) btw, which I’m sure I’ve recommended in this thread a few times.

[DE.]

43 minutes ago, JBiz said:

Had a go at watching some AEW on itv4 recently, and have to say it’s far more engaging than anything else I’ve seen from WWE for 15 years, including NXT and wrestlemania.

Still - it’s quite sad that the two best commentators are from the 80s, aka JR and “Shivontay”..

Fact Ross is using “Arnold Palmer” references in 2021, probably sums up my issue with this aspect of AEW.

I'm not sure how long JR will be around for. I think his contract is coming up somewhat soon, and whilst it was a good idea to use his voice to establish the brand in the beginning, it probably isn't needed so much now. 

I really like Tony Schiavone as a commentator - he's engaged, has a sense of humour and an open mind about everything he's seeing. He sounds like he genuinely enjoys the product and knows from past experience exactly how to get talent over. Going forward I'd probably have JR move into a backstage role of some kind, then shift Schiavone to the main play-by-play guy alongside Excalibur. Personally I don't think a third voice is needed, but if they do want to stick with the three man booth Tazz has great chemistry with Excalibur so would be the obvious choice. If they moved in that direction I'd personally remove Tazz from any storylines though. 

Just watching Friday Night Dynamite, still a bit concerned over the amount of former WWE mid-carders/retirees showing up. The show is still fun to watch but man, there are a lot of ex-WWE people showing up now. I guess we'll see if it translates to long-term views/ratings/buy rates. 

With that said Andrade showing up was cool, as WWE massively misused him (shock), but the crowd reaction was a bit strange. I don't think they understood Vickie Guerrero's initial screech when she announced him, then when he appeared it was more surprise/confusion than a huge pop.  

4 hours ago, Mike E said:

My wife hates wrestling. Like, properly hates it. She'll argue with me every time I want to put it on.

But not AEW, she'll watch that. She even occasionally chirps in with 'how cool' it is when aspects of matches fit what went before or tie in to promos etc.

Honestly back before AEW was a thing I pretty much hated wrestling too. Raw and Smackdown were briefly good around the 2016-17 period, but everything else WWE has produced for the past decade, practically, has been varying degrees of shit and not even so-bad-it's-kind-of-entertaining shit, just boring. I did try getting into NJPW but I only ever really watched the Wrestle Kingdom shows and a handful of isolated matches on YouTube. TNA by the early-2010s had generally become utter garbage as well so that was out too, and ROH was patchy at best with terrible production.

If AEW didn't exist I'm not sure I'd even be watching at this point. Raw is so bad that I don't even want it on in the background, and whilst Smackdown is OK it still suffers from the same erratic booking as Raw, minus Roman Reigns who is fortunately mostly isolated from that (and no surprise that as a result he's the best thing about the show and indeed the entire WWE, by far). 

[Bigdoggsteel]

Have to say I'm liking the Matt Cardona and Nick Gage stuff. I think Ryder/Cardona has played the broski long enough for a dark angle like this to really work if done properly. If he death matched it up and won the GCW title, it would be a real career rejuvenation I feel. 

Ricky Shane Page is a good character too I think, a lot of these guys wwe released could go to that sphere and do something very different. 

The lines between cinematic and death match could really be blurred. Helping both sides get the rub. 

[DE.]

Bray Wyatt released by WWE. Didn't see that one coming. Fully expecting he'll end up in AEW.

[Mike E]

4 hours ago, DE. said:

Bray Wyatt released by WWE. Didn't see that one coming. Fully expecting he'll end up in AEW.

I think a Fiend type character would so wonders in Japan.

[DE.]

Agreed, the Japanese would take the in-ring side of things a little more seriously which would be hugely beneficial to the character. I've just realised the entire Wyatt family are now gone from WWE - Bray, Harper, Rowan and Strowman! Even Daniel Bryan if you count him.

Edited August 2, 2021 by DE.

[DE.]

Speaking of Daniel Bryan, it seems he and CM Punk have both signed with AEW and are expected to debut within the next couple of months. Punk is being heavily teased for AEW Rampage's debut on Friday August 20th in Chicago. I haven't seen anything about a date for Bryan yet. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

On 02/08/2021 at 13:02, DE. said:

Speaking of Daniel Bryan, it seems he and CM Punk have both signed with AEW and are expected to debut within the next couple of months. Punk is being heavily teased for AEW Rampage's debut on Friday August 20th in Chicago. I haven't seen anything about a date for Bryan yet. 

Huge signings.

 

Is it just me though or does Punk seem a bit ridiculous as a legitimate "fighter" now after getting his ass handed to him in MMA? 

[DE.]

It would be ridiculous if he came in with a gimmick of being some kind of UFC fighter, for sure. If he just comes back as CM Punk I don't think the AEW audience will care about his MMA record.

[Bigdoggsteel]

16 minutes ago, DE. said:

It would be ridiculous if he came in with a gimmick of being some kind of UFC fighter, for sure. If he just comes back as CM Punk I don't think the AEW audience will care about his MMA record.

Well he's obviously not going to come in with a MMA gimmick 😆 Ah ya, they probably won't, the marks 😉 

[Mike E]

Tonight??? 🤞🤞🤞