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[DE.]

The pop when this song kicks in tonight will be legendary!

[Mike E]

33 minutes ago, DE. said:

The pop when this song kicks in tonight will be legendary!

I'm calling it:

MJF fakes out the return with 'The fire burns'.

[DE.]

 

 

Probably the biggest pop since Stone Cold in the late 90s?

[Mike E]

5 hours ago, DE. said:

 

 

Probably the biggest pop since Stone Cold in the late 90s?

Accounting for anticipation etc, I'd put it in the same league as (possibly bigger than) HHH return pop at Madison Square Garden.

[DE.]

4 hours ago, Mike E said:

Accounting for anticipation etc, I'd put it in the same league as (possibly bigger than) HHH return pop at Madison Square Garden.

It was the way it sustained that got me. This wasn't just one big pop, it was a continuous roar that picked up whenever Punk did pretty much anything. Hug a fan? Nuclear pop. Dive into the crowd? Nuclear pop. Sit down? Nuclear pop. Honestly I don't think I've ever seen wrestling crowd like that. 

The other big thing for Punk (and his AEW debut in general) was his ability to keep his name, his most well known theme song and the general logos/graphics that people associate with him. He literally got into WWE just before they started trademarking everything, so on advice of Paul Heyman in 2006 (or 2007, can't remember) he trademarked CM Punk and is probably very glad now that he did. Obviously 'Cult of Personality' is licensed from Living Color who are friends with him, so no issues there. Meanwhile his general logo is a variation on the Chicago flag, so only minor changes there.

I also have to say, when you're watching Punk's debut and seeing people in the audience literally crying and delirious with joy, there is no theme song that fits Punk better than Cult of Personality. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big metal fan and This Fire Burns is great, but Cult of Personality is the one for him.

[Mike E]

1 minute ago, DE. said:

It was the way it sustained that got me. This wasn't just one big pop, it was a continuous roar that picked up whenever Punk did pretty much anything. Hug a fan? Nuclear pop. Dive into the crowd? Nuclear pop. Sit down? Nuclear pop. Honestly I don't think I've ever seen wrestling crowd like that. 

The other big thing for Punk (and his AEW debut in general) was his ability to keep his name, his most well known theme song and the general logos/graphics that people associate with him. He literally got into WWE just before they started trademarking everything, so on advice of Paul Heyman in 2006 (or 2007, can't remember) he trademarked CM Punk and is probably very glad now that he did. Obviously 'Cult of Personality' is licensed from Living Color who are friends with him, so no issues there. Meanwhile his general logo is a variation on the Chicago flag, so only minor changes there.

I also have to say, when you're watching Punk's debut and seeing people in the audience literally crying and delirious with joy, there is no theme song that fits Punk better than Cult of Personality. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big metal fan and This Fire Burns is great, but Cult of Personality is the one for him.

Have to say, I've not felt giddy like this (possibly more so) than when Rock returned in 2011 or so and he's legit still a hero of mine.

[DE.]

I wasn't really watching WWE when Punk became a big thing there. From 2007 - 2013 or so I pretty much only watched TNA. I'd catch WWE highlights on YouTube, like Bret Hart returning and Punk's pipebomb promo, but that was pretty much it. 

So, Punk returning in of itself probably isn't as big for me as it is for others who were watching him during that period or have memories of his time in ROH. The story itself, the build up and the execution was all absolutely immense though, no matter whether you have memories of Punk or not. It will go down as one of the biggest wrestling moments of all time.

For me the birth of AEW was the 'moment' for me. That first Dynamite and the build up to it was like rediscovering my passion for the genre all over again. Honestly before AEW I was pretty much done with mainstream wrestling. TNA/Impact had become a shell of its former self, NJPW was great but difficult to follow, ROH's production values were terrible and WWE is WWE. Raw has been a joke for years now. 

It's so good to finally have a big wrestling company that listens to its fans, genuinely wants to please the audience, and just lets the wrestlers and their employees have fun and enjoy the nonsense that is pro wrestling. WWE is at this point, by most accounts, a toxic, political hellhole which saps the life and ambition from almost everybody that works there. AEW existing as a genuine, viable alternative is something we as an audience have needed ever since WCW folded. TNA tried, but when you compare AEW to anything TNA ever produced it is night and day. Not TNA's fault by any means - they did the best they could with the budget and resources available to them - but AEW is another league entirely. 

[DE.]

Meltzer suggesting on WOR that Bray Wyatt to AEW is more or less a done deal, just waiting for the no compete to expire. What an incredible year it's been for AEW in terms of talent acquisition. In 2021 alone they've signed:

- Andrade
- Christian
- Mark Henry
- Big Show
- Sting (end of 2020, but still)
- CM Punk
- Malakai Black/Alistair Black
- Thunder Rosa

And are also soon likely to be signing:

- Daniel Bryan
- Bray Wyatt

It's crazy to me how WWE are letting AEW sign all of these wrestlers up, having released most of them. If Vince thinks he's going to sink them by letting them sign big wrestlers on big contracts he doesn't realise how rich Shahid Khan is.

[DE.]

Not going to go particularly deep into Summerslam as, to be blunt, it wasn't that interesting. However...

I liked the arena design. It felt big - not WM big, but 'special event' big - and was different from the usual set designs WWE tends to go with.

The Alexa Bliss doll stuff is horrible. I honestly don't know what they are thinking with this.

Becky Lynch returning and then proceeding to squash Bianca Belair is just WWE all over. They somehow take a moment which should be impossible to fuck up and proceed to do so anyway through inane booking decisions. 

According to WWE Saudi Arabia is "a place that brings out the best for all the world to see" - which sounds like propaganda, but when you consider how WWE operates Vince probably genuinely does think that.

I don't know what the point of Drew Vs Jinder was. A feud nobody wanted to see, with awful build up that ended in what was essentially a squash. Pointless.

Can't say I have any strong feelings about Charlotte winning the title again. The Nikki ASH character is legit terrible, though. 

Edge's Brood entrance was very cool and a nice throwback. The Brood theme/entrance is a classic, although I never thought Edge would go back to that part of his career. Kind of a shame WWE didn't bring Gangrel in to make a cameo appearance (obviously Christian couldn't participate). The match was really good too.

Lashley/Goldberg was what it was. You can definitely apply the law of diminshing returns to Goldberg, as people are less excited and more prone to booing him every time he comes back. 

Reigns and Cena had a really solid match to end the show, and Brock's return made things interesting. Quite the look he has compared to when we last saw him! Also Michael Cole sounded obscenely excited - which I'm sure was Vince telling him to try and convince viewers this was even bigger than CM Punk returning, even though we all know it absolutely isn't. 

[Dreyski]

22 hours ago, DE. said:

Also Michael Cole sounded obscenely excited - which I'm sure was Vince telling him to try and convince viewers this was even bigger than CM Punk returning, even though we all know it absolutely isn't. 

The thing that struck me with the Punk moment was that the commentators didn't say a word for almost the first two minutes, which really added to the occasion for me. For some reason Vince wants to ram the obvious down our throats.

[Mike E]

7 hours ago, Dreyski said:

The thing that struck me with the Punk moment was that the commentators didn't say a word for almost the first two minutes, which really added to the occasion for me. For some reason Vince wants to ram the obvious down our throats.

Nothing better than that organic natural pop.

[James No.22]

CM Punk has piqued my interest. I haven't properly watched wrestling for years and years and years, but followed some of CM Punk's promos and the odd match here and there. I'm currently watching his segments, which have been the only times I've watched AWE. CM Punk is great and has been great. I'm hoping this 'CM Punk vs wrestlers he admires' angle will end fairly quickly because it will start wearing thin. Need to add a bit of heat.

Bray Wyatt is another interesting one to me and adding Daniel Bryan to the mix could start to convince me to actually watch a whole Dynamite one day. I don't have high hopes, though - like Manchester United they're stacked with talent (or will soon be), but seem to have a somewhat poor 'manager'!

[DE.]

AEW is a pretty huge success by every metric (TNT were expecting about 500,000 regular viewers, Dynamite has regularly gotten above 800,000 and is currently hitting over 1m) so I don't think it can really be said they are being managed poorly. Perhaps not to your taste, but I think part of the reason they are steadily growing is because they are catering the product to their demographic (non-casual 18-34 year old males, primarily) rather than trying to cast a wide net and catch everybody.

The other thing I love about AEW is that, unlike a certain other big company, they don't fight against their own fans. If the audience tells them they don't like something, AEW changes or drops it. They don't try to force bad/poorly received gimmicks down their fans' throats. I think it's gone and will continue to go a long way to building genuine brand loyalty.

Also by all accounts Tony Khan is great to work with, genuinely passionate about the business and wrestlers absolutely love working for him and AEW. So, I can't agree that there is poor management going on at present.

Edited August 31, 2021 by DE.

[Mike E]

No matter how hard I try, I've never been able to give my wife the same experience that AEW gave me last night.

[Dreyski]

In case you didn’t get what Mike meant:

 

[Dreyski]

 

[Miller11]

Haven’t watched the PPV yet, but I’ve read up and I will be viewing. I’ve been largely frustrated by AEW so far, but with recent developments I am hoping that changes.

Punk is a massive coup. Clearly on a different level to anyone and everyone else there already. The reaction he got and the buzz that he has created were enormous. A notch below Punk, but again above all the rest of the roster they now have Danielson too. I never really got a lot of the crowing around signing the likes of Andrade or Miro, but these two are absolute game changers.

I think what has limited AEWs growth so far has been Tony Khan’s pandering to the  self indulgent EVPs and Jericho. Keep Punk and Danielson away from them and they will absolutely thrive.

I hope to god it’s time for a Fozzy tour, because Jericho is an absolute hindrance and has basically become Hulk Hogan circa 2000. Omega should now find his natural level - the midcard, and Cody can carry on in his own little bubble. The Bucks sabotaging of the tag division might be more of an issue, but at least the belts are off them now.

Adam Cole, I’m fairly indifferent to, but he’s no doubt a good hand. Ruby Riot is a very solid addition - competent workers are severely lacking in that Women’s division. I can see them getting Charlotte Flair in the not too distant future, and that will elevate things a thousand fold.

Ironically, the AEW roster is now in need of some serious pruning. The deadwood that should never have been signed in the first place need to be released, then some of the others that have been used more thus far need phasing out over the coming months. I also hear JR is being phased off commentary - please Tony, put him in a backstage capacity. Let him help with booking and in particular finishes. 

Vince has to take notice now. Everything is aligning now for AEW to provide genuine competition, providing Tony Khan can listen and learn a bit more. It’ll be interesting to see if/how Vince reacts… or even if he is capable of doing so. It might accelerate the sale of WWE I believe they have been working towards.

Interesting times!

 

[Guest]

Reaching quite a level now. Still not quite as interested in AEW as I was hoping I'd be. I'm not a huge fan of the production and mixing for the show itself. But Danielson, Punk, Cole, Jericho, Rhodes, The Bucks... building quite an impressive wide reaching group that the E have got to notice sooner rather than later.

[Mike E]

I feel as if Bryan and Cole being debuted in the same angle has perhaps sent AEW way over the top in my mind now.

On top of Punk, it's a hell of a roster.

@Miller11 I think the appeal of AEW is that the 'star players' will be rotated with other promotions, which (ideally) will mean the midcard will be used well without 'doing a WWE'.

 

HOPEFULLY.

[DE.]

All Out 2021 was, in my view, one of the best PPVs of the last decade. It felt to me like they knocked it out of the park from beginning to end, and those final 10 minutes were something else. 

Miro Vs Kingston was a really solid brawl. I absolutely love Miro's character and he's proving week after week how badly WWE wasted him. After a slow start in AEW with the 'best man' gimmick (which I still think he ended up doing well with) Miro has really grown into an awesome presence. Kingston meanwhile is a solid hand who can take losses and still retain his credibility. I thought this was a really entertaining opening contest that didn't outstay its welcome.

Moxley Vs Kojima was good, although I think to really appreciate the match and the surprise appearance of Minoru Suzuki you have to at least have some knowledge of New Japan. It was a cool moment for me as someone vaguely familiar with the NJPW product, but for casuals it would probably have left them a little cold. The crowd at All Out loved it though. It's going to be incredible when Tanahashi and/or Naito and/or Okada show up in AEW. Okada technically worked the first All In, but hasn't been a part of AEW since it became a legitimate promotion.

Baker Vs Statlander was a strong match. I'm glad they are leaning away from the more ridiculous aspects of Statlander's alien gimmick and presenting her more seriously as a genuine contender for the women's title. I don't think Statlander lost anything in defeat, she looked good and at around 11 minutes it was just about the right amount of time.

The Bucks Vs the Lucha Bros was sensational. They had me hooked from the first to the last minute. These teams always have incredible matches and this one was no different. I was relieved nobody attempted a suicidal bump, as these teams tend to do that and it always scares the hell out of me. Very cool to see the Lucha Bros win the straps. They are crazy charismatic and excellent performers, so it's well deserved. 

Battle Royal matches can go either way, but I thought whoever structured this one did a good job. Nice to see Ruby Riott/Ruby Soho get such a great reaction. You could see it meant a lot to her. It looks like they are going to push her hard straight out the gate AEW's women's division was once easily its weakest point, but it's slowly getting there with established crowd favourites like Britt Baker, Shida, Thunder Rosa, Ruby Soho and Riho backed up by a lot of really promising up and coming talent.

Jericho Vs MJF was good, but I was so-so on the false finish. I'm not sure it was really necessary. Regardless, these two have told a good story throughout their feud and I thought the 'countdown clock' at the beginning was a clever throwback. I think it's time for both of these guys to move on now. Jericho has naturally dropped down into the upper mid-card and I don't think he'll be near the title scene any time soon, so it'll be interesting to see what direction he goes in next. Early on he (and eventually Jox Moxley) was the only proper "star" AEW had, but things have changed a lot and I'm curious to see where Jericho positions himself in the new landscape.

I really, really like Punk Vs Darby Allin. I was prepared to be underwhelmed, as the hype had been so intense, but they worked very very well together. For a Darby Allin match it was quite slow-paced and lacking crazy moves, but in this instance I think that was perfect. Punk didn't seem to have missed a step. Punk had to go over here, but Darby showed he could hang with Punk and in my opinion gained plenty in defeat. I'm curious to see where Punk goes from here. I wonder if a match with Sting is on the cards? Both have expressed interest and as far as Sting is concerned time is a factor. If they want to do it, get it done soon.

Finally, Omega and Cage had a good match, although it was never in doubt that Omega would win. Obviously the headlines are all about the post-match. Adam Cole and Bryan Danielson are huge gets for AEW and gives them a huge boost in credibility. WWE were desperate to keep Danielson, so they will be especially gutted that this has happened. For Danielson the sky is the limit in AEW, but I hope they take care of him. Left to his own devices he has a tendency to take things too far at times, so some degree of control will be required. An incredible acquisition regardless, and what a way to end the show. 

Part of me feels a little sad that the original era of AEW is effectively over with now, as the big stars begin to come in and make their mark. Bray Wyatt will likely be next, at which point you'll have Punk, Danielson, Cole, Wyatt, Malikai Black, Miro, Lana (most likely), Christian, Big Show, Mark Henry, Ruby Soho and a few others all in the company. It's obviously great for AEW and will surely push them to new heights, but it's feeling a little bit like a 2010s WWE takeover. The big difference is that whilst many of these wrestlers were treated badly by WWE and booked into oblivion, AEW will play to their strengths and that will elevate everybody.

Still, I'm raising one to the OG AEW wrestlers who got this thing off the ground and made me genuinely excited to watch wrestling again. I hope that at least some of them continue to shine and benefit from the work they put in getting AEW to where it is now. 

 

[Mike E]

Further to what I said to Miller, I've no problem with stacking talent if it can be used properly and is all quality.

All Out 2021 felt like a real showcase with clear positions on the card, yet I cared about every match, and every wrestler was fantastic imo.

Up there with some of the better WM cards imo.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Mike E said:

Further to what I said to Miller, I've no problem with stacking talent if it can be used properly and is all quality.

All Out 2021 felt like a real showcase with clear positions on the card, yet I cared about every match, and every wrestler was fantastic imo.

Up there with some of the better WM cards imo.

I think the only thing they're currently lacking in for me is the Women's side of things

[DE.]

Kevin Owens is the next major name rumoured to be jumping ship. Apparently his contract expires a lot sooner than was widely assumed. 

[Dreyski]

As a HHH pet project, the writing may be on the wall for him. If he goes, hopefully Zayn/Generico leaves with him.

[Guest]

If AEW fix the audio/presentation issues they often have, get the women's division right and continue to do most of the other great stuff they're doing, this is only going one way. The Khan's are significantly wealthier than the McMahon's. WWE need to do something different and they need to do it yesterday.