Wrestling Entertainment - we know, you don't have to tell us!

[Miller11]

Took a fair bit of scrolling to find this thread!

Royal Rumble time! I haven’t watched any WWE apart from the odd clip in ages and I’m completely out of the loop. I love the rumble though, and with it being a Saturday I’m going to attempt to stay up and watch.

I’ve put a few bets on to keep it interesting. Hoping for some surprises!

Big E looks to be a good shout, but I noticed earlier it’s in St Louis so Orton could be a good outside pick. Apparently Rousey is back, so can’t see beyond her in the womens.

[DE.]

I've enjoyed the silly rumours that Cody Rhodes may show up. He's technically working AEW without a contract at the moment, so it's possible even if the chance is realistically something like 0.00000001%. 

I watched the 2005 rumble recently and it was a reminder of how, even in the mid-2000s when WWE's popularity was starting to wane, the product was still a lot of fun. The current era is so far behind in comparison. 

As far as the 2022 RR card is concerned...

Miz & Maryse Vs Edge & Beth Phoenix - If this feud is going to extend beyond the Rumble, it would make sense for the heels to pick up the win here in the opening salvo. If it's a one and done, however, then Edge & Beth will obviously go over.

Becky Vs Doudrop - Becky, obviously.

Reigns Vs Rollins - I don't see them taking the strap off Reigns now. Rollins was basically drafted in as a big name stop-gap before WM. It works because there's plenty of history there to chew over, and the rivalry can go from 0-100 extremely quickly as a result. It's been a weird build in that both men are heels, and the crowd doesn't really know who to cheer for. I imagine it'll be the same during the match. Reigns to win, probably with some kind of outside interference from Heyman, but he's been built strongly enough to go over clean without hurting Seth.

Lashley Vs Lesnar - Brock was never supposed to win the Universal title. The plan was always for it to be Roman Vs Brock at WrestleMania, so I expect Lashley will win here to set Brock back on his original path. A high probability of outside interference from the Bloodline and/or Paul Heyman costing Lesnar the match. 

Women's Rumble - If Rousey returns, there's a good chance she wins it for sure. If not, it wouldn't surprise me if they give Charlotte the win just for the novelty of the champion winning the Rumble. 

Men's Rumble - Assuming Brock loses the title, I think he'll enter the Rumble and win it to set up an encounter with Reigns at WM, as per the original timeline.

 

[Miller11]

I hadn’t paid much attention to the other matches. Amazing how far Doudrop has come, wasn’t long ago she was regularly trying to coax passable matches out barely trained girls in Evoque for PCW!

[DE.]

Yeah... a shame they had to saddle her with a stupid name, but that's WWE for you. Viper & Piper Niven are both great names, but no, she's big so let's call her something that sounds funny. Hurr hurr. 

[Miller11]

9 minutes ago, DE. said:

Yeah... a shame they had to saddle her with a stupid name, but that's WWE for you. Viper & Piper Niven are both great names, but no, she's big so let's call her something that sounds funny. Hurr hurr. 

Yep. Vince is definitely regressing at this point.

[DE.]

It certainly doesn't seem like Triple H will be the heir apparent anymore, after his version of NXT was ruthlessly dismantled.I don't think I've watched NXT since it rebranded (although in fairness I'd stopped watching NXT some time ago anyway). 

[Miller11]

I will post more after I’ve slept, but Vince, Bruce Prichard and Kevin Dunn need removing from their positions immediately.

[DE.]

Well, I pretty much called all the results, but predictability isn't always bad as long as the product is presented in an entertaining way. 

Miz & Maryse Vs Edge & Beth Phoenix - This one was actually fine. Maryse was... distracting 👀 Match itself was solid enough. Edge & Beth winning suggests this was a one and done and Edge will have someone else to feud with going into WM.

Becky Vs Doudrop - Crowd didn't really give a shit about this one. It was OK. Not really RR calibre though. Becky winning was never in doubt.

Reigns Vs Rollins - I thought the match told a good story. Rollins coming out to the Shield theme, through the crowd in Shield gear was a nice touch. The ending would have been fine if they hadn't done the same type of ending multiple times recently. Reigns' beat down of Rollins at the end was suitably vicious, despite the shitty match finish. Problem is that it's hard to feel sympathy for Rollins when he has been a total heel up until this point, and hadn't changed his mannerisms or ring work at all to account for a babyface turn. The motivations for this match were largely predicated on the Shield break up, which was a decisively heel move by Rollins. The fact the Shield reunited more than once after the initial break up was ignored because I guess that wouldn't suit the story being told, but the point is that Roman had a genuine reason to feel aggrieved and angry kayface-wise - so why was he supposed to be the heel here? Baffling booking.

Lashley Vs Lesnar - These two did a good job of telling the story of two powerhouses coming to blows. Not a five-star classic by any stretch but decent enough. The interference and match finish was pretty obvious to anybody who knew the plan was still Roman/Lesnar at WM.

Women's Rumble - I thought they did a good job with the women's rumble. Some good stories told, some nice surprise returns from the past, and an obvious but crowd-pleasing winner. It seems that every year since the women's rumble matches have started I've preferred them to the men's rumble matches. This year was no different.  

Men's Rumble - Has to go down as one of the most boring men's rumble matches in history. What a snoozefest. Boring characters, a distinct lack of proper star power, no surprise non-regular roster returns, the stupid Jackass stuff, Madcap Moss randomly eliminating AJ Styles, Shane McMahon entering for no good reason and blowing up literally in the first minute or so, and then Lesnar coming in at the end and making everyone else look like embarrassing nobodies. Good job. This fucking sucked and is probably the most creatively bankrupt rumble match ever told. 

Overall I thought the PPV was decent with the exception of the finish to Reigns/Rollins and the Men's Rumble, but considering the Men's Rumble is the selling point of this PPV it's obviously a problem when it completely sucks.

 

[Miller11]

I’ve said this at least twice before in the last 5 years, but the mens was the worst Royal Rumble in history.

I enjoyed the Women’s, and thought that the use Mickie James was great - really refreshing how they acknowledged Impact and let her shine a bit.

Lesnar and Lashley started like a house on fire, but it quickly deteriorated and the finish was rubbish.

I’m so sick of dull, formulaic matches with a million false finishes, but that modern wrestling. Don’t get the Becky hype at all and think she ought to go and watch some Hulk Hogan matches to see how to have a match against a bigger opponent. Doudrop might be saddled with a shit name, but she’s improved dramatically from her PCW days.

Only saving grace was the fact I put a bet on Shane to make the final 4 at 80/1 as soon as I saw he was rumoured to be in it. Didn’t make it worth staying up for though.

WWE is in a terrible state, the few good things they do feel as though they have been seen a million times before. It’s worse than WCW in its death throes right now.

 

Edited January 31, 2022 by Miller11

[DE.]

Speaking of Shane, apparently he's been released 😂 he produced the shitty men's rumble and apparently had major heat over it. He was originally pencilled in to face Rollins at Mania, but now gone!

[Dreyski]

Bask in his glory!

Keith Lee AEW debut

That said, the roster is getting ridiculously stacked, but releases are few and far between. Apparently some contracts will be up soon though.

[DE.]

On 12/02/2022 at 00:52, Dreyski said:

Bask in his glory!

Keith Lee AEW debut

That said, the roster is getting ridiculously stacked, but releases are few and far between. Apparently some contracts will be up soon though.

Yep, looks like Cody Rhodes is done with AEW. Apparently going back to WWE... never would have thought that would be happening at this point. 

[Mike E]

On 16/02/2022 at 20:49, DE. said:

Yep, looks like Cody Rhodes is done with AEW. Apparently going back to WWE... never would have thought that would be happening at this point. 

I'm cautiously excited. WWE could fuck this up OR it could be their 'Outsiders' moment.

[DE.]

It's WWE, they'll fuck it up. 100%. 

I'm more interested in how they'll fuck it up. They'll be paying Cody a fortune (rumoured to be in the $3-5m a year range) so you have to think he'll be pushed pretty hard at the beginning. Then it's just a case of how long before Vince loses interest in his shiny new toy and Cody ends up in mid-card feuds with the Miz and Apollo Crews. He may even get the chance to put Shane McMahon over when the best in the world eventually returns. We might even get the return of Stardust one day. 

It's disappointing from my perspective. Cody has been a huge part of AEW, and had an incredible potential storyline with his meta-heel turn. Instead it turns out he never had any intention of turning heel, and thought everything he had done and was doing with babyface material. Lol. I really enjoyed Cody's work in AEW but it sounds like he was pretty deluded by the end. His final promo was a total rambling mess that made no sense at the time - but if you listen to it now, assuming Cody knew he was likely to be going, it makes a little more sense. 

Rewatching Cody Vs Dustin at Double or Nothing now. Fantastic match. Might be the best of Cody's career. 

[DE.]

Huge viewership drop for AEW this week. They've been doing over a million pretty steadily since moving to TBS, but just 869k this week and a 0.31 demo. Those are the kind of numbers they were doing on TNT when opposed by NXT on USA (although I contend there isn't much of a crossover at all between WWE & AEW fans, not in the same way there was between WWF & WCW back in the day).

Strange as AEW's last two shows have been pretty good. Can't imagine Cody's departure would have had that kind of impact, especially considering he hasn't even been on TV much lately. Maybe people were disappointed in Keith Lee and Jay White being the big reveals last week? 

[Mike E]

13 hours ago, DE. said:

It's WWE, they'll fuck it up. 100%. 

I'm more interested in how they'll fuck it up. They'll be paying Cody a fortune (rumoured to be in the $3-5m a year range) so you have to think he'll be pushed pretty hard at the beginning. Then it's just a case of how long before Vince loses interest in his shiny new toy and Cody ends up in mid-card feuds with the Miz and Apollo Crews. He may even get the chance to put Shane McMahon over when the best in the world eventually returns. We might even get the return of Stardust one day. 

It's disappointing from my perspective. Cody has been a huge part of AEW, and had an incredible potential storyline with his meta-heel turn. Instead it turns out he never had any intention of turning heel, and thought everything he had done and was doing with babyface material. Lol. I really enjoyed Cody's work in AEW but it sounds like he was pretty deluded by the end. His final promo was a total rambling mess that made no sense at the time - but if you listen to it now, assuming Cody knew he was likely to be going, it makes a little more sense. 

Rewatching Cody Vs Dustin at Double or Nothing now. Fantastic match. Might be the best of Cody's career. 

Surely even Vince can't fuck up a returning superstar 'poached' from 'that pissant company'? And surely Cody wouldn't let him?

I would hope for something like this (spitball booking but bare with me):

Feud Vs a 'WWE lifer' like Miz for WM38 (maybe involve Maryse if Brandi is coming too). Tease it by having Stardust flashes or have Miz' pocket squares with polka dots or something (but treat the feud itself seriously).

Cody coming back has to be a big deal, done the same way Punk was done.

Cody returns saying 'I was held down by Vince. I went away, and created a whole new company. I became one of the biggest stars in the world, and a better promoter than Vince ever was' etc. NO digs at AEW, praise only.

Miz doesn't take it that way 'You went away because you couldn't make it. Look at what I achieved and I stayed' etc.

Cody goes over.

Rinse and repeat feud with John Cena at Summerslam.

Goes over another WWE lifer at Survivor Series in Rollins.

Cody wind the Royal Rumble: I didn't come back just to be WWE champion, I came back because the only thing standing in my way from being THE biggest superstar in the world was standing at the head of the table.

Feud with Roman Reigns at WM39.

Something akin to that, the need to book people strong again. Book SUPERSTARS instead of booking outsiders as inferior.

[DE.]

I've lost count of the amount of times I've thought 'no way WWE can fuck this up' and they then proceed to go and do just that.

For Cody it's dangerous as he's walking into a situation where he has no control over his destiny as far as creative is concerned, especially compared to AEW where he had plenty of clout. He'll once again be at the whim of an old man who regularly makes ridiculous decisions, and who is only bailed out by TV Networks' need for regular live programming and the Saudi need for sportswashing. 

I think he'll be booked somewhat strong for the first year, maybe even two. The thing with Vince is that if he doesn't see somebody as a main event talent, it's very, very difficult to convince him otherwise. Even if a talent has gone elsewhere and been successful - if it didn't happen in the WWE bubble, it basically isn't worth anything to Vince (and for some reason that even includes NXT). Cody was clearly never seen as a true main event player during his previous run - by the end he was losing on B and C shows in his stupid Stardust gimmick. Make no mistake, regardless of what Cody has done since, Vince still sees him as that guy. The opportunity to pry an EVP from AEW is just too good for Vince to miss out on. 

Edited February 18, 2022 by DE.

[DE.]

Missed most of Elimination Chamber, forgot it was on tbh, but caught the Men's match...

Decent start, then Brock comes in roughly 9 minutes into the match, destroys everyone and wins. Lol. Lashley protected somewhat by getting 'injured' before he could come in, meaning he never actually faced Lesnar. or anybody, for that matter. No Cody debut either, which is probably for the best. There wasn't really any obvious spot for him on the card.

Madcap Moss took an absolute brutal bump in the match with McIntyre. 

https://v.redd.it/f6ixp0pq3ui81/DASH_1080.mp4

Hopefully he's OK.

[Miller11]

Some good insight from Cornette on the Cody situation. I had also thought that Cody will be an upper-midcarder back in Vince land… he’ll have to be punished for doing the whole AEW thing, but I hadn’t thought about the fact that Vince is effectively buying some serious insider info of the AEW contracts and wrestlers.

Very interesting parallel drawn between this and Dusty in 1989.

 

[Mike E]

9 hours ago, Miller11 said:

Some good insight from Cornette on the Cody situation. I had also thought that Cody will be an upper-midcarder back in Vince land… he’ll have to be punished for doing the whole AEW thing, but I hadn’t thought about the fact that Vince is effectively buying some serious insider info of the AEW contracts and wrestlers.

Very interesting parallel drawn between this and Dusty in 1989.

 

Upper-mid would show that Vince hasn't learned from the Invasion 20+ years ago.

ALWAYS present anyone coming in from a rival really strong for at least a while. Then when your own roster starts beating them, they look incredible.

[Dreyski]

Cesaro may be going the other way after his contract ran out (so no non-compete clause either)

For all the talk about roster bloat in AEW, if you get the chance to sign Claudio, you sign Claudio.

[DE.]

I watched AEW's Revolution PPV last night. Fantastic show, as usual, only let down by running a little long. They could definitely have trimmed some matches from this one. If you include the Buy In (which I didn't watch) it was roughly 5 hours which is a bit much. Still, the overall event was very good. You can't help but notice how over almost every wrestler is with the audience. Compare to WWE where a lot of the wrestlers come out to a mild reaction at best, all of AEW's performers have a strong connection with the audience who react to them exactly as you'd hope. It really adds to the overall presentation when the audience is fully on board with the wrestlers and their storylines.

Spoilers ahoy, for anyone yet to watch...

Chris Jericho Vs Eddie Kingston - I wasn't sure what to expect from this one going in, but it was arguably the match of the night. Such a simple story, with one wrestler not having respect for the other, but that's all you really need. Triple H's NXT did this kind of simple storyline very well, and AEW often does this basic stories very well too. Jericho is in the best shape he's been in for years, certainly since AEW started, and looks great. Kingston will never have a modern day wrestler's body but makes up for that with sheer charisma and talent. He's ridiculously over with the crowd and connects with them in the same kind of way the likes of Stone Cold did. Not that Kingston is on that level or even close, but it's the same vibe. The match itself was very, very hard-hitting. Even at this stage Jericho is not phoning anything in, he's putting his all into his matches and put Kingston over in a big way here. I really, really enjoyed this match.

Jungle Boy and Luchasaurus vs. reDragon vs. The Young Bucks - One of those matches where rules are thrown out the window. A fast paced spotfest but one that I was engaged with throughout. I thought these three teams put on a great match, but I can see traditionalists being frustrated with the lack of rules being applied at various points. It can get difficult at times to work out who is legal and who isn't in matches like this. Personally I was entertained throughout.

Keith Lee vs. Powerhouse Hobbs vs. Wardlow vs. Ricky Starks vs. Orange Cassidy vs. Christian Cage - This one was a bit of a mixed bag. Some crazy spots as always in these kinds of matches. There was some sloppy stuff and some really good stuff. It was another match I was very much entertained by and it should have been either Wardlow or Keith Lee going over, so Wardlow was a good choice. This guy is potentially the next face of the company, he's over absolutely huge at the moment.

Jade Cargill vs. Tay Conti - Cargill is green but an absolute star, it's written all over her. She has the look and the swagger to make up for the fact she's still learning on the job. I also love her theme song, it reminds me of an old school WCW track like the Horsemen's theme or Brad Armstrong. Tay Conti was rising fast but seems to have plateaued a bit. I'm not sure this match did her many favours, and honestly I find her current presentation a little bland. Much like her boyfriend Sammy Guevara she doesn't really have much of a personality beyond 'plucky babyface'. They reference her martial arts background but it still doesn't provide much depth. I actually think her and Sammy would benefit switching to a heel duo. I could see that working well, although I don't think it's in AEW's plans. I don't think they've mentioned Sammy and Tay's relationship on screen at all.

CM Punk vs. MJF - I've never watched ROH, so Punk coming out to his ROH theme with throwback gear didn't really do anything for me, but it was still a cool idea and the crowd seemed to appreciate it. The match itself was really good, as expected, and told a solid story. Wardlow's soft-turn at the end went over big, and should make for interesting storylines going forward. I assume this was the end of Punk and MJF's feud, which for me has been excellent and a consistent highlight in AEW. Anyone who thought Punk was coming in to smile, cut a few promos and present his best hits has to accept that this isn't the case at all. Much like Jericho, Punk is giving as much now as he did at his peak. I hope he goes onto something equally intense going forward, and it's highly likely anything MJF does next will be great.

Britt Baker Vs Thunder Rosa -  This couldn't really live up to their 'lights out' match last year, and it was tough to follow the Punk/MJF match. This was still good, but the outside interference and Britt retaining is getting old now. JR stated flat out on commentary "is all this outside interference really needed?" and I think that was some legit frustration from him. I agree. Chances are they will switch the title to Thunder Rosa in her hometown on Dynamite in a couple of weeks, but it begs the question of whether this match was necessary if that's the plan anyway. 

Jon Moxley vs. Bryan Danielson - Funny to think that when these guys were in WWE Smackdown was ending with Moxley calling Danielson a "turd" as WWE tried to get that trending. What a difference a change in company makes. I think the crowd was getting burned out at this point, as they weren't as hot for the match as you'd expect. It was an excellent, brutal brawl with a slightly anticlimactic ending. Regal's surprise appearance was fun, and what a huge pop! He should be a huge asset to AEW, and it'll be interesting to see how he fits into the Moxley/Danielson story. 

Darby Allin, Sting, and Sammy Guevara vs. Andrade El Idolo, Matt Hardy, and Isiah Kassidy - A Dynamite/Rampage match that shouldn't have been on the PPV, considering how long the event went. With that said all of these guys worked hard, and Sting's balcony dive onto the tables... just wow. 62 years old and still putting his body on the line. Nobody in AEW phones it in. 

Adam Page vs. Adam Cole - I felt bad for these guys, because they were following so many great preceding matches. Very difficult to produce anything new or exciting by this point in the evening. They had a good match, but as a viewer I was getting fatigued by this point. The match probably didn't feel as big as it should have, and maybe shouldn't have been the main event, but at the same time the world title should really always be the main event, so... I dunno. It was a nice way to end the show, I was just burned out by this point.

[Mike E]

https://fb.watch/bDr4sKgdDC/

19 years since he last wrestled, I hope he doesn't wrestle again. Leave your legacy alone, Steve! If need be, break the glass, Stun Kevin, have a beer party, flip him off, and go home.

But don't wrestle!

Still not lost the trash talking touch though!

[DE.]

On 08/03/2022 at 19:48, Mike E said:

https://fb.watch/bDr4sKgdDC/

19 years since he last wrestled, I hope he doesn't wrestle again. Leave your legacy alone, Steve! If need be, break the glass, Stun Kevin, have a beer party, flip him off, and go home.

But don't wrestle!

Still not lost the trash talking touch though!

Just needed the 'beady little eyes' to hit all the bases!

I don't think he'll wrestle a match. Not a proper one, anyway. At best it'll be a talking segment ending with a stunner and beers, imo.

[DE.]

According to the Observer Austin has not agreed to a match with Kevin Owens, and it will basically just be a fight/brawl type segment. Probably for the best.

William Regal's debut interview from Dynamite is worth a watch:

Apparently his comments about 'not being long for this world' were legit, the Observer says that his health is much worse than is generally known 😞 hopefully he's still got a decent amount of time left. I first watched Regal way back in 1996 when he was with the Blue Bloods. I was a kid at the time so I wasn't looking out for workrate or promo skills, but obviously as he was a Brit it made his appearances more memorable to me anyway. His brawls with Fit Finlay around that time period were ridiculous, just straight up beatings delivered by both men to each other. He really came into his own in the WWE in the 2000s though, playing the commissioner role to perfection on Raw and later NXT. Never afraid to adapt and make a fool out of himself to entertain people. I have every confidence that AEW will give him an awesome final run.

Edited March 11, 2022 by DE.