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[DE.]

Give the man the Presidency of the States already. Surely can't do any worse.

[Miller11]

Anybody else going to All In?

[Dreyski]

Terry Funk and Bray Wyatt have both passed on in the past few days. Wyatt was only 36.

[DE.]

Funk is obviously a legend and will be missed, but got to a good age considering what he put his body through. 

Bray Wyatt... that's horrible. Sounds like he has something similar to Keith Lee insofar as COVID causing heart issues. Absolutely gutting. Say what you will about him, but he is one of if not the most creative mind involved in wrestling in the last decade. He's been part of a lot of memorable moments. 

[Mike E]

6 hours ago, DE. said:

Funk is obviously a legend and will be missed, but got to a good age considering what he put his body through. 

Bray Wyatt... that's horrible. Sounds like he has something similar to Keith Lee insofar as COVID causing heart issues. Absolutely gutting. Say what you will about him, but he is one of if not the most creative mind involved in wrestling in the last decade. He's been part of a lot of memorable moments. 

My favourite was the ’gunshot’ moment as Roman Reigns speared someone on a Raw. It was a simple and subtle gesture but it just looked so fucking cool.

This is one that has really upset me, up there with Eddie, Benoit, and Brodie for how gutting it is as a fan.

[DE.]

16 minutes ago, Mike E said:

My favourite was the ’gunshot’ moment as Roman Reigns speared someone on a Raw. It was a simple and subtle gesture but it just looked so fucking cool.

This is one that has really upset me, up there with Eddie, Benoit, and Brodie for how gutting it is as a fan.

Have to admit it's got to me a bit as well. When I was done with WWE around 2019 the Firefly Funhouse segments are what brought me back - I thought they were fantastic. Bray had a great mind for the cinematic and storytelling elements of the business, he just never quite seemed to have synergy with with wrestling side of things. In his earlier years he was kneecapped by the booking, losing too many feuds to be taken seriously. Towards the end it was more a case of his stories never having a definitive end, and lacking a decent payoff.

Nonetheless, he's been a part of so many memorable moments since I started watching again. Often he was the only good thing about a Raw or Smackdown. Probably my favourite parts of his career were his Smackdown run in 2016/2017 with Randy Orton (excluding the awful Wrestlemania match they had) and the earliest days of the Funhouse and the beginnings of the Fiend. It went downhill fairly soon after he started wrestling, but for a brief period of time it was some of the best stuff WWE had put out in years.

With both Eddie and Benoit it was a real shock because I'd been watching them in WCW from the first moment I began watching wrestling in 1996, all the way through their WWE tenures. With Bray, he was one of the major players when I got back into WWE around 2014ish. He's been one of my favourites since I got back into wrestling, as he was consistently one of if not the most interesting character on the show. I always looked forward to his segments, as even though sometimes they'd be duds, usually they were memorable and outside the box creatively. I appreciated that.

It's such a shame his final run didn't pan out properly. His return was incredible. His new theme song was fantastic, and the original idea seemed to be very unique. Sadly it just didn't work. Whether it was Vince and creative muddying the waters, or Bray just missing the mark, I don't know... but there was so much potential there. I still had faith that Bray would redeem it when he came back. It sucks we'll never see where it could have gone, but more importantly it sucks that a guy who people have nothing but good things to say about is gone.

[Mike E]

Absolutely. One of the best creative minds in wrestling, I’d say up there with Heyman and Foley’s league.

Just wish we knew where he was taking it next. His journeys were always better than their destinations.

[Mike E]

Arsenal walked out for the second half to Broken Out in Love. Tribute to Wyatt in some way?

[DE.]

From what I read the DJ is a wrestling fan and often plays wrestling themes during intermissions, so most definitely a tribute but to be expected.

I was surprised to see tributes from David de Gea and Vanessa Hudgens on instagram though. Bray's reach as a performer really was beyond typical wrestling fans. Thinking about it, the guy undoubtedly had a Hall of Fame career in just ten years. Look at everything he did, the storylines he was involved in and the people he worked with. He could be put in the HOF next year and I don't think anybody could argue it was undeserved. 

[Mike E]

On 20/08/2023 at 22:48, Miller11 said:

Anybody else going to All In?

How was it? 

[Miller11]

10 hours ago, Mike E said:

How was it? 

It was definitely had a big occasion feel to it. I’d always said I wasn’t going to the new Wembley til Rovers got there, but my brother evidently got sick of waiting and really wanted to go to AEW. My immediate realisation was it’s not that new any more, and unsurprisingly, being up in the nosebleed seats isn’t great for actually watching wrestling (or football I imagine).

It was busy but not anywhere near full, strangely there was barely anyone under 18 in the entire stadium. Crowd had its moments but wasn’t nearly as lively as I expected. Perhaps this was due to the length of the show.

The set and production values were fantastic. The music rights and pyro costs will have been into the millions. I’ve been to WWE, TNA and WCW events before, obviously not on this scale, but this was on recent WWE level. I was reliant on the big screens to see what was going on and the camera work was largely ok, missed a few bits but not bad.

The in ring highlight was the CM Punk v Samoa Joe match. The Stadium Stampede was dreadful and the crowd were bored throughout it. Saraya winning and celebrating with the family was cool. There were way too many false finishes in every match for my liking with everyone kicking out of everything over and over again which makes it all seem a bit formulaic. I also wish they’d enforce rules. This really hurt the FTR v Bucks match. I’m glad they kept the daftness to a level lower than I expected (Jack Perry and Moxley aside) and I’m glad they resisted the temptation to do anything too ludicrous. However, far too many hardcore matches/spots. Jericho wasn’t as insufferable as I was expecting, Sting was a great bit of nostalgia (especially with the entrance), I don’t get the hype with Ospreay and found Omega’s match boring. The acclaimed were great fun. MJF loses so much of what makes him great as a baby face, but he’s come a long way since I last saw him on these shores and bought him a pint of dark fruits in the Stanley Arms in Preston!

Overall it was a great occasion and the in ring action was a mixed bag but leaning towards decent overall. This was special due to a 30 year hiatus, doing another in 12 months is not a smart move.

[DE.]

My overall thoughts on All In...

The set looked really cool. Had a big show feel for sure. It was surreal to see such a massive crowd for a non-WWE event, and the production team did a good job of making it seem huge with all the panned crowd shots. 

MJF/Cole Vs Aussie Open was fine, but didn't have any of the expected dissention between MJF and Cole, which I felt was a missed opportunity to build some more intrigue for the main event.

Perry and Hook had a great little match, very entertaining.

As expected, Joe was very popular in the UK. Joe is basically the guy that really got me back into wrestling and TNA in 2005. I watched a match between him and AJ Styles and was blown away by how brutal Joe's style was. As it turned out he essentially really was just beating the shit out of AJ, lmao, but it was awesome. Been a big fan ever since. Dude has such a great presence and is a fantastic promo too. A shame that TNA totally dropped the ball with him after 2007, and he never really did much on the WWE main roster either. Although in that instance I will grant them some leeway as he was injured fairly frequently. Good to see him still going strong regardless. Punk got a favourable reaction coming out, but was booed during the match itself. The match was fairly slow but had good ring psychology. I cracked up when Punk was tossed head first through the bottom of the announce desk and then got given the middle finger by Joe, lmao. Joe also gave the 'wanker' sign towards Punk which made me laugh.

The Pepsi Plunge didn't look great, but the truth is Punk has never been a great technical wrestler and is pretty poor at that side of things now. He's relying solely on his aura and reputation to get him through most matches. There are a few exceptions - the dog collar match with MJF (and that feud in general) was very good. Post-injury he seems to have lost another step though.

The Hangman/Omega/Ibushi vs Bullet Club Gold match was okay but I don't really follow NJPW, so it was tough to get invested. 

Bucks Vs FTR was good, although below my expectations. The multiple false finishes in Bucks matches always annoys me, but that aside it was solid enough. If AEW felt Cash was going to have serious problems after his arrest I assume they wouldn't have had FTR go over.

Stadium Stampede was pretty wild on TV, but I can understand it being difficult to follow and really get into live. I enjoyed it from my living room though. Moxley's hardcore stuff is a bit too excessive for me. He needs to give it a rest, as it feels like he just wants to purposefully mutilate himself at this point, and it's uncomfortable to watch. There's too much of this stuff in general in AEW. It just loses its appeal when it's done so often. It was a pleasant surprise to see Best Friends pull off the win - good for them. AEW OG's who have earned a big win like that. However, for a supposedly elite group the BCC lose way too much. Yuta is essentially a glorified jobber at this point.

Women's fatal four way was fine. Mixed feelings about Saraya's family being a part of it, as they are by all accounts not great people, but yeah. I couldn't hear anyone in the crowd singing along to God Save the Queen/King during Storm's entrance though. Might have just been the sound mix, which sometimes struggled to pick up a lot of crowd noise. Obviously a big pop for Saraya winning. Sad for Shida to have such a short reign, but I can understand putting Saraya over in the UK. Hopefully this spells the end of the shitty Outcasts faction.

Seek and Destroy for Sting's entrance was awesome, good nostalgia for the old school WCW fans amongst us. Money well spent by TK there. I appreciate that AEW are willing to splurge on licensing songs for big events. Queen and Metallica being the big ones on this show. It just helps the product present as big time. TNA/Impact or various other smaller promotions would have just had rip off versions rather than the real thing. I like that Khan just says fuck it and gets the real songs. 

Overall it was a really fun match, very enjoyable. It's incredible that Sting still moves around the way he does at his age. What an absolute legend. He's pretty much been my favourite wrestler since I first started watching, and it's awesome to see him still going strong in 2023. 

Jericho/Ospreay - Pretty good match in the end. Not a MOTY candidate or anything, but they told a good story and worked well together. Big pop for Ospreay as the hometown lad.

House of Black paying tribute to Bray Wyatt by bringing out a lantern and placing it on the stage, with the commentators also speaking about Bray's legacy was a classy touch. House of Black were the right choice to pay tribute. The Acclaimed saying the HOB are "a bigger disgrace than Prince Andrew", lmao. Beautiful. Much like Sting, Billy Gunn is in incredible shape for his age. Dude barely looks any different from when he was in WWE.

Match itself was okay, nothing special. Big reaction for the title change. House of Black's look is awesome, for the record. Their entrance masks are sick. I would have had HoB retain, especially after the Bray tribute. The story was set up for The Acclaimed to win, though, and there probably wasn't any point stretching it out. They wanted the big pop with the homegrown lads getting the win, and I guess that's fair enough.

Awesome entrance for MJF. Ridiculously over the top, but I love it. 

After all the talk of who was going to turn on who, both men ended up respecting the other. Unexpected. but I actually like what they did here. They subverted expectations and let the show end with a feel good moment. The match itself was pretty good as well. 

I've seen a lot of disappointment over the main event finish, but I really liked the ending. There's definitely still mileage in the Cole/MJF story, and the fans don't seem to want them to break up. I think it was the right call and executed in a fantastic way. MJF was also hilarious in the post-event media scrum, the guy doesn't give a single fuck and it's superb. Khan looking over every so often like 'wut' when MJF talks about banging rats or something, lmao.

MJF as a babyface is totally over with the crowd, no question, but it's such a drastic pivot to his previous character. He's retaining some of his heel characteristics, but some of the babyface stuff flies in the face of everything he built his character up to be before now. He does it incredibly well, but yeah, for me it's a bit jarring and difficult to forget the stuff he's done in-character previously. Evidently the fans are all for it though, so AEW might as well lean into that.

Have to mention the CM Punk/Jack perry drama too. Absolute pisstake for this kind of shit to overshadow a show like this. Seriously, why can Punk just not be a dick for one day? Apparently the altercation came about because after a spot where Perry was suplexed on the windscreen of a limo, Perry said "that's real glass, cry me a river" - which was a shot at Punk, who had previously vetoed Perry doing a similar spot on Collision. Just childish bullshit from all involved. 

At this point Punk is just a toxic headcase. I think he's actually worse since he came back. It's the old saying of if you come across assholes all day, you're probably the asshole. Punk is now suspended again and will miss All Out (as will Perry). It's an absolute joke. The blame ultimately lies with Tony Khan as an owner who is unable to control Punk and is just sitting back and watching Punk poison the locker room for the second time. What's worse is that Punk isn't even that good in the ring nowadays, and he's clearly not a big draw for Collision, which averages about 500k a week. I'm not convinced they'd do significantly less without him. I guess now he's suspended we'll find out.

He so desperately wants to be a leader, but he comes across more like a tyrant. Banning people he doesn't like from "his" show, getting in the faces of people with lesser reputations, cutting unscripted promos where he knows the other person won't respond. It's obvious he's carrying an even bigger chip on his shoulder since he returned, and he just wants to surround himself with people who will kiss his ass. He's become everything he claimed to hate back in the day. Truth is though he was probably always like this, he just didn't have the power to show it before, and projected his insecurities onto others by pretending to hate the very thing he really wanted to be.

Perry should also have known better than to stir drama on the biggest show of the year - do that shit somewhere else if you have to. It's not professional and is a childish way to deal with things. He's only 26 though, basically still a kid and he's going to make mistakes and bad decisions occasionally. Punk is 44, at this point in his life he has no excuses for behaving in such a juvenile manner. Fact is he's a narcissistic guy with so much money he can do whatever he wants with little fear of reprisal, knowing he has the owner in his back pocket. His punishment for eviscerating the EVPs and embarrassing his boss in a press conference, then getting into a backstage fight with said EVPs, was to get his own show where he can ban whoever he wants from showing up, and have his boss chant "CM Punk" as he returned for his debut. No wonder he feels bulletproof.

Khan needs to grow a pair, stop being a mark and negotiate a release for Punk from his contract. It isn't working, and it's never going to work. Punk needs to leave pro wrestling behind. His legacy is already irrevocably stained - just go before it gets any worse.

Edited August 29, 2023 by DE.

[DE.]

... and Punk has officially been fired. About time. Apparently he lunged at Tony Khan after going for Jungle Boy, lmao. What a lunatic. 

[Dreyski]

The day before a PPV…in Chicago. 
 

This could be Royal Rumble 2014 crowd bad.

[Mike E]

Don’t mind admittedly that I popped like fuck for Rock’s unexpected return! Was watching live, giving my youngest a bottle of milk and nearly threw him through the ceiling!

And for 51, he runs the ropes fantastically!

[DE.]

It was indeed very cool to see The Rock back, and what a huge pop! Apparently the plan was for Reigns/Rock at the WM just gone, but the stars didn't align from a scheduling perspective. To be honest I'm not sure they ever will. Rock got busted up pretty badly in his last match against Cena, and that was 10 years ago. It isn't going to be any easier for a 51 year old Rock, and I don't see him putting potential movies in jeapoardy over a one off match at this point.

[not exactly Scarface]

I'm a wrestling fan but don't follow the WWE now.      Sometimes catch TNA on ITV or AEW but there's names on there like Billy Gunn and Jericho still being featured.    I mean they just seem so out of place in today's industry.     It's not as if they need the money.

WWE was good, perhaps great around the turn of the millennium and about 5 or 6 years after but lost interest after that.   Channel 4 at one time used to put the PPV's on late at night live from America but it didn't seem to last long.

If you want to see a truly classic no-thrills match I'd recommend Angle / Chris Benoit at the 2003 Royal Rumble.    No fancy stuff, just a classic between two of the greatest technically gifted names ever to appear in the ring.     Seriously, check it out if you can, it was immense.   

[DE.]

I would imagine the few of us in this thread are aware of the all time classics mate 😅

[Upside Down]

If it ain't the attitude era then it ain't worth shit.

[DE.]

Nitro from 1996 - 1998 and WWE from 1998 - 2000 are my all-time favourite years. After that it gets a bit spotty.

WWE in 2001-2002 was alright, but losing steam. 

TNA from 2005 - 2008 was pretty fun.

Smackdown's August 2016 - March 2017 run was great. 

I enjoyed AEW until around autumn 2022 when the CM Punk brawl out stuff started. 

Nowadays I keep up with the news via reddit, mostly, but don't watch any of the shows.

[Mike E]

15 hours ago, DE. said:

Nitro from 1996 - 1998 and WWE from 1998 - 2000 are my all-time favourite years. After that it gets a bit spotty.

WWE in 2001-2002 was alright, but losing steam. 

TNA from 2005 - 2008 was pretty fun.

Smackdown's August 2016 - March 2017 run was great. 

I enjoyed AEW until around autumn 2022 when the CM Punk brawl out stuff started. 

Nowadays I keep up with the news via reddit, mostly, but don't watch any of the shows.

I think Smackdown from 2001 thru 2005 was first rate, especially when Paul Heyman wrote it. Lesnar, Taker, Mysterio, Angle, Benoit, Eddie, Edge, and the emergence of Cena and Batista.

Edited September 24, 2023 by Mike E

[DE.]

1 hour ago, Mike E said:

I think Smackdown from 2001 thru 2005 was first rate, especially when Paul Heyman wrote it. Lesnar, Taker, Mysterio, Angle, Benoit, Eddie, Edge, and the emergence of Cena and Batista.

My understanding is also that Smackdown was very good during this period, but I wasn't really watching any wrestling between mid-2002 to mid-2005, so I missed the majority of it. I've seen some of the better matches from the PPVs and such, but not the actual Smackdown shows.

[DE.]

For all of the stick AEW gets, and I have given them a fair bit in the past year too, it's great to have another big wrestling company around for moments like Adam Copeland's debut last night:

Kind of crazy that they were able to literally copy his WWE entrance and even the "Rated R Superstar" nickname, which WWE apparently abandoned the trademark for in 2020. A different name but otherwise literally everything else the same. A really cool get for AEW, and it's great that Edge gets a final full-time run. Judging by the post-event scrum it's something he really wanted, but WWE were only willing to let him do a part-time schedule. Considering Edge has been a WWE lifer up until this point it's really weird to see him in the ring for a different promotion, but I'm looking forward to what he can do there.

 

[Mike E]

On 02/10/2023 at 17:51, DE. said:

For all of the stick AEW gets, and I have given them a fair bit in the past year too, it's great to have another big wrestling company around for moments like Adam Copeland's debut last night:

Kind of crazy that they were able to literally copy his WWE entrance and even the "Rated R Superstar" nickname, which WWE apparently abandoned the trademark for in 2020. A different name but otherwise literally everything else the same. A really cool get for AEW, and it's great that Edge gets a final full-time run. Judging by the post-event scrum it's something he really wanted, but WWE were only willing to let him do a part-time schedule. Considering Edge has been a WWE lifer up until this point it's really weird to see him in the ring for a different promotion, but I'm looking forward to what he can do there.

 

Adam himself said something like ‘If you’re a fan of wrestling, rather than acronyms, this should make you happy’.

Completely on board with that view purely because more wrestling companies = more wrestlers employed.

[Mike E]

Jesus wept…

https://variety.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/grant-v-wwe.pdf