Wrestling Entertainment - we know, you don't have to tell us!

[VinjayV4]

Gutted. I saw him wrestle at PCW.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/other-sports/wrestling/british-wrestler-kris-travis-dies-7662938

In one way, it's a suprise to hear a young death in wrestling of something like cancer. RIP

Unfortunately (as I'm sure you were hinting) it wouldn't have been a surprise if it was something else. Not by any means in the case of Travis (who I don't know much about and cancer obviously isn't due to drugs) but wrestlers who are commonly known to have drug/alcohol problems and the number of previous deaths.

Problem is the US media (International even less so) don't really care if its only wrestlers and mostly see wrestling as just WWE anyway. There is the "wellness policy" in WWE but that does not extend to whole industry. I'll admit being selfish and wishing there were still regular chairshots to the head (blood has generally been blading, hardway or total accident but they could use blood capsules) but 21st century there's so much liability too. Those chairs are real but concussions are a problem in WWE hence Daniel Bryan's premature retirement.

As Mick Foley said if someone got thrown off that cell now the match would probably be over. He was actually hurt worse by the 2nd (and unplanned) fall. I wonder if Shane will take a "huge bump" this weekend going through tables certainly isn't an issue for PG.

Edited March 31, 2016 by VinjayV4

[Mike E]

Shinsuke Nakamura just debuted on NXT. Didn't he used to play for Celtic?

[DE.]

One of the worst WrestleMania's ever last night. The whole event was, by and large, a massive FU to the fans from Vince, Hunter and Stephanie. The wrong person went over in almost every match, and the main event was possibly the worst ever. The crowd were booing Reigns so much that WWE muted the audience and turned up the ring/announcer mics to block it out. They then piped in fake cheers at the end when Reigns won the match. A real low point as far as respecting their fan base goes.

I regret staying up until 5am to watch it.

[Dreyski]

Zack Ryder as IC champion? :wtf:

RAW tonight should be tasty!

[VinjayV4]

One of the worst WrestleMania's ever last night. The whole event was, by and large, a massive FU to the fans from Vince, Hunter and Stephanie. The wrong person went over in almost every match, and the main event was possibly the worst ever. The crowd were booing Reigns so much that WWE muted the audience and turned up the ring/announcer mics to block it out. They then piped in fake cheers at the end when Reigns won the match. A real low point as far as respecting their fan base goes.

I regret staying up until 5am to watch it.

Yet they broke several company records. That's the issue business needs to go down before it goes up. That's what happened in 97 (though they did begin to improve in 96) and really WCW going out of business was a bad thing. Never really watched it (other than that awful Channel 5 show with batman style censoring which at least was funny) but its evidently changed WWE for the worse. I still like Vince a lot but even he would admit he's an egomaniac which in many ways has been a good thing where he's concerned. The problem is that things like the hall of fame (good god I detest that its everything the attitude period wasn't) are just complete and utter egotism. Why it gets so much attention is beyond me.

I don't like being critical because I'm as big a fan as you can get of the 97-2001 (watched from September 97 onwards though in past few years much more semi regular) product. Right now though its the least I've watched in years and honestly I would rather have watched stuff from 98 (even after seeing it several times) than Wrestlemania live last night. That's saying something considering how cheap the network is. How can you surprise people any more though? Shane's elbow (the only thing I bothered to look at) was hardly shocking and anyone who saw Summerslam 2000 would consider that minor. Cole clearly giving a nod to Mankind is once again "tooting their own horn" it was nothing like that. Announcers yelling "don't do it Shane" if we are supposed to compare that to Jim Ross in June 98 its laughable. Just couldn't be bothered to watch it and I consider the Undertaker to be the best thing about the company. Are we also supposed to forget its been less than 6 months since he had a "pink rope hell in a cell match?" Still don't get what the point of the match was nothing unpredictable happened. They had Austin, Rock, etc in the building and didn't do a damn thing nobody could have seen coming.

I just can't watch over 4 hours of "self referential", "hall of famer this and that", complete and utter pure egotism. I blame the internet to a slight extent too ever since 2001 can't help looking at the shows more critically. Granted that's partly because they got worse. I guess it was always going to happen but kinda wish I hadn't looked. With twitter now more and more people know all the "inside" stuff anyway. For goodness sake I didn't even realise for about a year (97-98) they did untelevised events! It was a massive deal to me when Ken Shamrock called out the Undertaker as "Mark". Can't remember if I even knew what day Raw was on in the US. I remember someone at school telling me that Undertaker and Kane were gonna have an inferno match on Raw and not really believing it. The people I watched it with didn't believe it either and then its announced about 30 seconds into the show!

With all the information overload sometimes I almost wish it was 4 channels again. Well that and sky...I miss the 90's.

Edited April 4, 2016 by VinjayV4

[DE.]

Generally speaking I massively dislike the current WWE product. It's bland, boring, fake and soulless. That said, they always seem to pull off a couple of decent months around WrestleMania and the event itself is usually good to watch even if you haven't been following the storylines. Not this year. The build up was awful and the event was just as bad.

Shane McMahon kicking out of the last ride, kicking out of a chokeslam on the steps, and then reversing Taker's Hell's Gate submission into a sharpshooter just broke my barrier of disbelief. It was too much.

Roman Reigns has nuclear heat with the crowd, he's essentially going to be the next John Cena, without the drawing part.

As an aside, NXT Takeover Dallas was unbelievably good. It's hard to believe the same company produces Raw and NXT. Shinsuke Nakamura's debut was awesome, and his match with Zayn was off the charts good. NXT, as usual, outshone the main shows by a huge margin.

[K-Hod]

The whole product seems to have been in complete decline since the 'attitude era' finished tbh. The only reason there seems to be for anyone I know watching it these days is because of legends being back in it at times.

Edited April 4, 2016 by K-Hod

[VinjayV4]

Generally speaking I massively dislike the current WWE product. It's bland, boring, fake and soulless. That said, they always seem to pull off a couple of decent months around WrestleMania and the event itself is usually good to watch even if you haven't been following the storylines. Not this year. The build up was awful and the event was just as bad.

Shane McMahon kicking out of the last ride, kicking out of a chokeslam on the steps, and then reversing Taker's Hell's Gate submission into a sharpshooter just broke my barrier of disbelief. It was too much.

Roman Reigns has nuclear heat with the crowd, he's essentially going to be the next John Cena, without the drawing part.

As an aside, NXT Takeover Dallas was unbelievably good. It's hard to believe the same company produces Raw and NXT. Shinsuke Nakamura's debut was awesome, and his match with Zayn was off the charts good. NXT, as usual, outshone the main shows by a huge margin.

Its spectacle over substance. That's why there was a HIAC less than 6 months since there were 2. What a HUGE deal those matches used to be (its certainly not the Undertakers fault its the product) but its all watered down, watered down, watered down. When they manage to water down an inferno match can't help feeling like its almost on purpose. What next...first nosebleed?

Cena has heat with a certain section of the crowd. Unfortunately the kids seem to ruin it for the adults lol. Though the irony is more kids watched in the late 90's and Sky didn't seem to censor things on those Friday nights! They certainly didn't cut the Val Venis "castration" naked footage! Though since my first knowledge of wrestling was playing videogames (such as Royal Rumble on Megadrive was told it was "fake" pretty much from that moment) I did always kinda hope Doink might show up...

Ironic thing is when I started watching it was because I got Sky. My thoughts were it was aimed at kids and now I realise my expectations were pretty much what the early-mid 90's product looked like.

The whole product seems to have been in complete decline since the 'attitude era' finished tbh. The only reason there seems to be for anyone I know watching it these days is because of legends being back in it at times.

Swear if I have to hear "hall of famer", "legend" on a show one more time I'll scream out loud. One of the best things about the Attitude Era (looking back) is none of that egotism. Yes the WWE have always been quite prone to "tooting their own horn" but it was nothing like it is now! When did they keep bringing back people from 97-2001? Shawn Michaels made several appearances after his first retirement (he was under contract though, wasn't old and was injured) and Jesse Ventura. They had a massive reason with Ventura though looking back I didn't really know his past stint then and I can't rememebr what I thought about him being a state governor! Not bringing more back didn't hurt one single bit. Now its just a lazy option for the "writers". They have the easiest job in world just having to write the same boring garbage week after week. It seems they bring someone back every week and you know what? It don't mean a damn bit of difference in the rating. Guess they don't care though as long as they continue to make good profits (so many revenue sources and no significant competition) with a boring, stale product.

I like Austin a great deal but really what's the point of just having him show up and stun someone? Undertaker is an exceptional case he still wrestles and as far as I'm concerned can do what the hell he likes!

Edited April 4, 2016 by VinjayV4

[Tom]

The whole thing was poor really and I was begging for the rock to get it over with given the time.

Some of the decisions and ending just bizarre.

[DE.]

The whole product seems to have been in complete decline since the 'attitude era' finished tbh. The only reason there seems to be for anyone I know watching it these days is because of legends being back in it at times.

You aren't wrong there. TNA had a couple of decent years between 2005-2007, but ever since WCW folded in 2001 the industry has been on a steady decline. It baffles me how many people I've seen defending the current product. I can only assume they've been fed @#/? for so long they've actually started enjoying the taste.

Swear if I have to hear "hall of famer", "legend" on a show one more time I'll scream out loud. One of the best things about the Attitude Era (looking back) is none of that egotism. Yes the WWE have always been quite prone to "tooting their own horn" but it was nothing like it is now! When did they keep bringing back people from 97-2001?

Because they have forgotten how to make stars. They cut off all potential stars at the knees before they can even get going, and push cookie cutter sports entertainers that are far too bland to captivate an audience. Last night is a perfect example (spoilers ahoy for anybody who hasn't watched WM yet):

Ryback was getting over previously, but is now inexplicably being jobbed to the horrifically bland (but kid friendly) Kalisto on the pre show's pre show.

Zack Ryder wins the IC Title - this would be fine if Ryder was going to go somewhere, but we know he won't. He'll probably lose the title tonight, robbing the likes of KO or Zayn - guys who could actually do something for the company - of the chance to make an impact at the biggest PPV of the year.

Jericho beats AJ Styles. Seriously, what? Podgy, out of shape Jericho beats AJ totally clean? The guy that lost to Fandango last year beats one of the most over new wrestlers on the roster? Words fail me.

League of Nation beat New Day. League of Nations then get pummeled by the retired hall of famers. Nobody wins here. Utterly pointless.

Lesnar destroys Ambrose in a keany match. Pointless.

Shane McMahon takes one of the WM spots to face Undertaker. Yes, he's over, but surely WWE should be asking themselves why a 46 year old non-wrestler is far more over than anybody else on their entire roster? Imagine they'd built a full timer up to take that spot instead. They might actually make a real star.

Then there is Reigns. Dear God, it's almost like the creative team are purposefully trying to sabotage the guy. I feel bad for him. He hasn't really done anything wrong, and I suppose on some level he knows the fans are really booing Vince and the creative team, not him. The crowd hate his character because they know it's not real. They don't hate Roman as a person, they might even start cheering him if he turns heel. But hey, Vince knows best.

[Mike E]

I'd have changes a few outcomes tbh.

Ambrose over Lesnar would've kept Lesnar strong (unpredictable stipulation) and sent Ambrose into solid Main Event territory.

I enjoyed the Rock segment, but feel Wyatt should've gone over. Just let the 3 of them batter him down, leads to Rock vs Bray at Summerslam (or something).

Also think the Reigns heel turn should've happened tonight. Have him open HHH up and just keep pounding away with Steph begging him to stop. The only thing stopping him would be security, Usos, and agents (Finlay, Nash etc) holding him back.

I even think Taker didn't do enough to Shane. He just laid around looking knackered. That match needed something else (aside from the awesome spot) to mean anything... proper build would've been a start.

Ryder, WTF?? When I saw the line up, I thought it'd end up with Zayn costing Owens the belt, with Ziggler grabbing it and getting the push.

A should've gone way over Jericho, with build starting on Raw for a feud with someone else.

Pleased for Corbin! Hope he gets a solid push on the back of that win.

Um....what else?

Edited April 4, 2016 by Mike Ellison

[Tom]

Corbin will probably beat Ryder for the belt tonight - him or Joe

[DE.]

Ambrose over Lesnar would've kept Lesnar strong (unpredictable stipulation) and sent Ambrose into solid Main Event territory.

I don't actually think Ambrose even needed to go over Lesnar. If it was my call the match would not have been booked at all, but since it was, why not have both men beat each other senseless until neither can get up and both have to be taken out on a stretcher? It elevates Ambrose as an absolute badass for hanging with Brock, who loses nothing (and gives a reason for another lengthily hiatus). Ambrose being beaten in 12 minutes and barely getting any offence in was just sad.

I even think Taker didn't do enough to Shane. He just laid around looking knackered. That match needed something else (aside from the awesome spot) to mean anything... proper build would've been a start.

There was significant damage done to Undertaker's character last night imo. He looked like an old man, wrestled like an old man, and struggled to hang with a 46 year old non wrestler. Time for the dead man to hang up the boots before he becomes a parody.

I enjoyed the Rock segment, but feel Wyatt should've gone over. Just let the 3 of them batter him down, leads to Rock vs Bray at Summerslam (or something).

I forgot about this segment. The Rock was in super irritating/cocaine mode which I found a bit cringey. There was no need for the Wyatts to take that beating, but they are buried beyond salvation now anyway. Send Bray back to NXT and start again.

[Mike E]

I don't actually think Ambrose even needed to go over Lesnar. If it was my call the match would not have been booked at all, but since it was, why not have both men beat each other senseless until neither can get up and both have to be taken out on a stretcher? It elevates Ambrose as an absolute badass for hanging with Brock, who loses nothing (and gives a reason for another lengthily hiatus). Ambrose being beaten in 12 minutes and barely getting any offence in was just sad.

There was significant damage done to Undertaker's character last night imo. He looked like an old man, wrestled like an old man, and struggled to hang with a 46 year old non wrestler. Time for the dead man to hang up the boots before he becomes a parody.

I forgot about this segment. The Rock was in super irritating/cocaine mode which I found a bit cringey. There was no need for the Wyatts to take that beating, but they are buried beyond salvation now anyway. Send Bray back to NXT and start again.

Agree with a lot of that.

The Post-Mania Raw normally has two or three tricks up it's sleeve, especially in a wrestling-hot city like Dallas.

I'm expecting a great delivery of some sort.

[VinjayV4]

They did get one right and that's scrapping that godawful "divas" title. If Phil Jones was a belt...

Still would prefer if they just scrapped women's wrestling altogether seems people have to sit through pointless 15-20 minute matches with them now as well.

So Raw tonight...unless HHH/Vince/Reigns, etc start the show that will no doubt be the last anyone sees of them for 3 hours.

Edited April 4, 2016 by VinjayV4

[DE.]

I'm a big fan of Sasha, Charlotte and Becky. Bayley and Asuka are tearing it up in NXT at the moment at well. TNA once had the best women's division going, looks like WWE may be bringing some of that back. Dropping the quite frankly offensive "diva's" name and the purple butterfly belt is a big step in the right direction. I don't have much faith in WWE creative to follow through in anything but the literal sense when it comes to this though.

[Mike E]

Wonder if Bayley will win the Women's belt by debuting tonight? Didn't make sense to me not having the title change hands last night.

[Dreyski]

Especially seeing as Snoop (Sasha's cousin IRL) was in attendance. Could have cancelled out the Flair variable, but was another opportunity wasted.

I think Bayley should stay in NXT for a while longer and feud with Asuka for the belt over this time, if she leaves, the women's division is getting pretty thin.

If she joins the main roster, one can only hope Vince sees her as the female Cena (Shena?) in terms of kid appeal and merch sales. Poor Izzy wouldn't get to see her so often though

[VinjayV4]

Wrestling stereotyping foreigners whatever next!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-35967298

Despite that ridiculous overreaction I do find the "evil foreigner" stuff (was wrong that Rusev would be "jobbing" within a year but his "push" is certainly less prominent) boring and uncreative. It certainly worked in the 80's but now we call for more "sophisticated" characters than "he's foreign and he's evil." Feel sorry for some of the foreign WWE wrestlers because they will always have a gimmick based on whichever country they are from. That's just limiting them and everyone knew Rusev was Bulgarian while he was pretending to be Russian.

There are certain exceptions like Muhammad Hassan with a different take on the usual considering he was African American complaining about stereotyping. Plus Kaientai's feud with Val Venis which stereotyped Japanese people but at least it was "over the top" and funny.

Of course the event in the link was nothing special and the most basic type of wrestling show by sounds of it.

Anyone with the slightest clue about wrestling would know to expect things like that. Maybe this idiot should have watched some shows first because causing such severe emotional distress to himself and his kids. I guess Tony Spitfire won too that must have really angered him.

Edited April 5, 2016 by VinjayV4

[K-Hod]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/chyna-dead-former-wwe-great-joan-lauer-found-dead-in-california-apartment-a6993846.html- Chyna has died.....

[Tom]

Muhammad Hassan was a brilliantly nuanced character, he was playing on the irony of stereotypes and what America expected of someone that looked like him

He was Italian American (or Canadian) not African American though

[DE.]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/chyna-dead-former-wwe-great-joan-lauer-found-dead-in-california-apartment-a6993846.html- Chyna has died.....

Sad news. She had a pretty tough time of it in recent years but I'd heard she had been getting better. Much like with Eddie Guerraro, though, the damage sometimes cannot be undone.

Muhammad Hassan was a brilliantly nuanced character, he was playing on the irony of stereotypes and what America expected of someone that looked like him

He was Italian American (or Canadian) not African American though

Hassan was a great character, but as usual WWE's creative team went too far with it. He went from being nuanced to just being a stereotypical terrorist.

[JBiz]

Joan is an example of what stardom, money and drug problems can do. Look at the way she changed in looks from the start of her career - which spiralled into pornography.

I can safely say I'd feel for anyone who got dropped in the way she did by ripple h, (even in Kay fabe!) but some of the interviews she's done with Russo make me realise just how far she'd gone.

RIP - in no way the best female sports entertainer of her time, but one of the most successful!

[DE.]

It looks like when Smackdown starts airing live in July it will be under brand split rules again. This could actually make the B show relevant again.

[Mike E]

It looks like when Smackdown starts airing live in July it will be under brand split rules again. This could actually make the B show relevant again.

About time too!

If it goes ahead, they need to keep the tag division intact (don't split teams up), make sure the top two titles are of equal importance, and treat both shows like Raw.

Develop proper storylines, with no overlap until the inevitable SurvivorSeries show vs show-down.