Boxing Megathread

[tomphil]

Yep there was a reason the Klitschkos weren't keen on fighting in the USA they new sooner or later they'd get stitched up. When belts leave their shores the Yanks don't like it and will do anything to get them back there or keep them. Manny got stiched v Tim Bradley, Khan in a fight as well once I think then you look at the GGG v Canello fight and that scoring.

The way it was engineered as soon as Vitali gave up the WBC it was always going to find it's way straight to Wilder then when the IBF pinched the belt back Fury had won it ends up in the hands of Charles fliipin Martin. People including me call Hearn at times but he played an absolute blinder getting Martin straight over here by offering huge money because they knew a raw inexperienced AJ would smash him otherwise that would have ended up in Wilders hands pretty quickly.

It was a masterstroke straight out of the Don King handbook when he lavished money on Bruno only months after he'd finally won it to go and be Mike Tyson's sacrifice again in his second coming after Frank won the belt off Dons man McCall.

Maybe Fury isn't that daft after all at least he's got people believing he's still a champ years later when he could have lost it again quickly by actually fighting

[tomphil]

Haye pulls out ..... again.

If your injured your injured so no point taking the money turning up and serving up a shocker so no prob with him calling it off but he really should pack it in now his body has been telling him it's time for about 4 years.

Desperate for cash though no doubt.

[J*B]

38 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Haye pulls out ..... again.

If your injured your injured so no point taking the money turning up and serving up a shocker so no prob with him calling it off but he really should pack it in now his body has been telling him it's time for about 4 years.

Desperate for cash though no doubt.

Falling down the stairs?!

The guys a fraud, he's everything I can't stand. He spent all his money trying to look like something he isn't and now he's totally skint - doing anything he can to try and get back to where he was. Like a gambler chasing his debts. Fighting in MMA boots, training on a yacht in Miami... i'm so glad Bellew trained in a stinking gym in Rotherham and ended his career.

[tomphil]

5 minutes ago, J*B said:

Falling down the stairs?!

The guys a fraud, he's everything I can't stand. He spent all his money trying to look like something he isn't and now he's totally skint - doing anything he can to try and get back to where he was. Like a gambler chasing his debts. Fighting in MMA boots, training on a yacht in Miami... i'm so glad Bellew trained in a stinking gym in Rotherham and ended his career.

Always been a fan but i'm sick of him now he only came back for the doh and took out a few club fighters then the money on offer for Bellew probably seemed like to good to turn down.

The original version of Haye beats Bellew any day but that version is gone for good and I genuinely said to someone the other day Bellew would win again because Haye would break down again. Your right on the training and Bellew said it as well, Haye trains hard he always does he's a demon trainer but he trains like an athlete not a boxer and the constant niggles he gets are weightlifters injuries not boxing ones the way he conditions himself is all wrong.

Can't believe TB is going to rearrange it and wait for him putting his own career on hold he'll break down again in the run up to the next one for sure. Haye will end up like Mike Tyson & Holyfield getting beaten by nobodies once the fight has gone past a few rounds because he's a busted flush just fighting to pay debts

RETIRE !

[J*B]

Just now, tomphil said:

Always been a fan but i'm sick of him now he only came back for the doh and took out a few club fighters then the money on offer for Bellew probably seemed like to good to turn down.

The original version of Haye beats Bellew any day but that version is gone for good and I genuinely said to someone the other day Bellew would win again because Haye would break down again. Your right on the training and Bellew said it as well, Haye trains hard he always does he's a demon trainer but he trains like an athlete not a boxer and the constant niggles he gets are weightlifters injuries not boxing ones the way he conditions himself is all wrong.

Can't believe TB is going to rearrange it and wait for him putting his own career on hold he'll break down again in the run up to the next one for sure. Haye will end up like Mike Tyson & Holyfield getting beaten by nobodies once the fight has gone past a few rounds because he's a busted flush just fighting to pay debts

RETIRE !

I was listening to the Costello & Bunce podcast this morning on the way into work. Quite interesting really, Costello was talking genetics and science in Athletics and bringing it back to Frampton saying the human body reaches its 'absolute' peak for around an 18 month period sometime between 26 and 32. You can be really successful for a longer period of time, but you can only be at your best for a maximum of 18 months. He was suggesting this was the case with Frampton.

It would relate back to Haye quite well. His body is clearly absolutely terrible, its falling to pieces. He must have retired first time knowing his body was failing, the performance against Bellew should have confirmed it (like when Hatton came back), theres absolutely no reason to carry on other than he's desperate for money. I feel bad for the fans that have got duped into thinking the fight against Bellew was a one off and he was going to come back stronger. He's falling to pieces!

TB is open and has said he wants a final payday then to retire. Hearn said the numbers for Bellew vs Haye 2 outweighed any other fight, including Parker, by 40%. I'm not surprised he's waiting for Haye if thats the case, the current Cruiserweights are monsters and will be unified after the Super 6, AJ and Wilder both smash him all over the place and I don't think Hearn can justifiably give him Parker while Whyte is around. If its one last fight take the biggest money and run. 

[J*B]

Side note, Eddie Chambers has released a video of Anthony Joshua's DMs on Instagram in which AJs account says:

"Bitches talk. Real ones move in silence. You done to much talking. U are bum. Disgrace to the superior black race! @#/? u"

 

The twitter rumour is theres a media blackout on it, with reporters told they'll lose their access if they write about it. AJs camp are saying he was hacked. 

Not sure where I stand just yet. Dillian Whyte said the entire 'stay humble' thing was a farce and AJ was a horrible guy in the build in to their fight. If you hacked AJ why would the only thing you do be private message Eddie Chambers?! Equally... what is that spelling? It's terrible! 

[tomphil]

Interesting stuff from the podcast i'll have to dig that up later.

It is true though and the loose less perfect looking guys at heavyweight tend to have longer careers providing they are good fighters of course. Holmes, Foreman when he was in his 40's, Bowe would have done but his head and heart went. Fury much as I loathe him also falls into that category although for me he falls into the Bowe one as well sadly.

Fair point on Bellew waiting but I just can't see it coming off unless Haye is playing games having got the fight in the bag. It was always going to be a massive ask to get back from an injury like that so quick for a fight of this magnitude.

[tomphil]

On the txt thing my take is before that only hardcore boxing fans knew who Eddie Chambers was but the day after everyone who follows boxing knew who he was, say no more.

I can believe AJ has a nasty streak you can see it in the ring and it's no bad thing it's something that makes him stand out from the Bruno types but I struggle to believe he'd be that naïve.

Chambers being Furys pal and chief sparring partner adds weight to it, it'll be some kind of stunt whether Joshua is in on it or not.

 

 

 

[donnermeat]

Lomachenko Rigondeaux is finally among us.....possibly the world's best offence against the world's best defence, two double Olympic gold medallists and their combined amateur record is 859 wins 13 defeats (Rigo with 12 of those).

Tough one to call but if pressed I would go for Lomachenko, heavier guy and his weight class though Rigo has a reach advantage and a great jab, not to mention a nasty left counter. The Cubans fight so calculated though and can see it being hard for Loma if he tries to draw him out. 

[tomphil]

Certainly one for the purists and hard to call.

Loma on a split decision for me although wouldn't rule out a draw !

[tomphil]

It would appear the drugs cheat has been cleared to fight again by UKAD after what appears to have been a secret ban which is now time served.

Think i'll leave the country the tosser was never out of the media whilst he's been banned so god help us now. I don't care who does it but someone somewhere please expose him for the big awkward gangly non fighter that he is.

Pity there is such an all time shallow pool of genuine heavyweight talent out there in this era outside of the top 3 or 4.

[J*B]

21 hours ago, tomphil said:

It would appear the drugs cheat has been cleared to fight again by UKAD after what appears to have been a secret ban which is now time served.

Think i'll leave the country the tosser was never out of the media whilst he's been banned so god help us now. I don't care who does it but someone somewhere please expose him for the big awkward gangly non fighter that he is.

Pity there is such an all time shallow pool of genuine heavyweight talent out there in this era outside of the top 3 or 4.

The King has returned. 

[tomphil]

7 hours ago, J*B said:

The King has returned. 

The guy is a drug cheat end of.

The bums going nowhere ! Wonder how many 2nd rate pumped up cruisers they've got lined up for him before he runs away from Joshua or Wilder for 12 rounds

Edited December 13, 2017 by tomphil

[Audax]

As I'm sure a lot have heard, boxing heavyweight Scott Westgarth has died due to injuries suffered in a boxing match. Rest In Peace.

He won his boxing match against Dec Spelman.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/more-sports/british-boxing-in-shock-after-westgarth-death/ar-BBJB92h?OCID=ansmsnnews11

 

 

[Gav]

Never been a fan of George Groves mainly from the Froch era really, I think you naturally fell into one camp or another and I was a Froch fan, loved his style and heart.

But I must admit I was out of the chair a couple of times against Eubank, he schooled him for large parts of the fight and the fact Groves has fought at a much higher level showed on the night, man against boy for me. But he's young enough to come back, he's a fresh fighter and with his dad doing less and less in the camp  can only be a good thing. 

This weekend we see Kel Brook returning to the ring after his loses to Golovkin and Spence Jr. Think Kel's looking for a pay day against Khan in the next 12 months having shown he's not good enough to mix it with the big boys, so I may not even bother watching it....

Who an I kidding! but he's in this now for the money only and that usually doesn't end well for many fighters. 

[tomphil]

I'm with you on Groves Gav he's kind of grown on me and he's matured in and out of the ring everything he said about Eubank is correct because he was speaking from his own experience. One thing about Groves is he's never in a dull fight and he can be hurt and run out of gas but that just makes him more exciting to watch imo, he's a cracking fighter.

Eubank can still go on to be good he has bags of talent but needs a new approach and to stop trying to fight like his old man. I don't actually blame the dad like many do in terms of the fight itself he was yelling at Junior to get busy and jab inbetween rounds in the corner right from the off. He needs to go to a real trainer like Freddie Roach or someone for 6 months.

Brook is finished at top level I think and I fear a sorry demise if he goes on too long chasing belts and paydays as like Haye his mind is willing but his body won't take it anymore.

[FGS5635]

Ego has really set Brook back. He shouldn't have taken the GGG fight, it was madness. I reckon without that loss and injury he'd have beaten Spence.

Now he's simply ticking over hoping for a final pay day v Khan

[tomphil]

43 minutes ago, FGS5635 said:

Ego has really set Brook back. He shouldn't have taken the GGG fight, it was madness. I reckon without that loss and injury he'd have beaten Spence.

Now he's simply ticking over hoping for a final pay day v Khan

Poor matchmaking by Hearn that was, yes it was big money but you're right it took the wind right out of Brooks sails in terms of being an elite fighter for a bit longer.

 

[FGS5635]

Fair play to Kell. He should be beating Rabchenko easily, but you could tell before the fight and by his reaction after the fight that there where a lot of daemons there for that fight.

Despite them daemons he produced a clinical performance.

[tomphil]

Yep he did well but he's yet to take a shot around the eyes at 154 so it'll be interesting although tonight will have done him the world of good mentally.

[FGS5635]

Just watched the wilder fight. It so hard to rate his performances. He is such a bang average boxer, but opponents cant go 12 rounds without the right hand landing and as soon is it does its game over. Ortiz dominated every round. A bit more fitness and Ortiz wins that maybe.

In wilders defence though I guess he knows this so just ticks along waiting for the opening

[Audax]

These "bare-knuckle boxing" articles lately, this one match, I think the illegal one was held in Bolton per the story.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/5757515/british-bare-knuckle-boxing-pictures/

More coverage: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/fb-5478159/Bare-knuckle-fighting-UK-law.html

 

[tomphil]

Wilder used to box behind his jab and move around quite well but he's seemed to get worse technically fight by fight over the past few years however his power, reach and leverage are absolutely lethal.  I think he's so desperate to be take seriously he's abandoned working on his limited skills and just relies on his bombs but that's a dangerous game and you feel a good HW with plenty in the tank will take him out.

He's benefitted more than most from the lack of depth of HW talent in this era and although Ortiz has something about him no way is that victory anything like as credible as the AJ or Fury one's over Klitschko, a man who Wilder should have been walking over broken glass to get to before those two did.

But you don't do what he's done without being a bit good so fair play to him.

[matt83]

This ko last night is as conclusive as I’ve ever seen. 

[tomphil]

No guy in Brownes condition should have been in the ring at that level, quite simply in there for a pay check bringing nothing but a big punch.  He should have been saved to be Fury's comeback opponent really.

Having said that Whyte boxed really well, probably the best he's performed technically but he just had a huge immobile heavy bag in front of him.