Academy & U21s

[Guest]

53 minutes ago, J*B said:

But nobody can argue that as a centre back, Phillips has to win that header

LJ much like players we've had in the past (Rudy Gestede for example) wins those headers every single week. I think he wins that header either way, whether it's Phillips or Wharton.

[Sparks Rover]

3 minutes ago, JoeH said:

LJ much like players we've had in the past (Rudy Gestede for example) wins those headers every single week. I think he wins that header either way, whether it's Phillips or Wharton.

I don't, a proper centre half makes it more difficult, Phillips in that moment looked 17,  LJ is no Gestede

Edited October 25, 2022 by Sparks Rover

[chaddyrovers]

Jake Batty signed a new contract until 2025. More good news

 

Batty pens pro deal! | rovers.co.uk

Edited October 25, 2022 by chaddyrovers

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

I don't, a proper centre half makes it more difficult, Phillips in that moment looked 17,  LJ is no Gestede

Jutkiewicz across his entire senior career has averaged 9.63 aerial duels won per game, Gestede 9.75. I'd say it's a very fair and accurate comparison.

[J*B]

14 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Jake Batty has signed on. Good stuff

Huge. I suspect this time next year he’s ahead of Pickering. 

[Guest]

Another great indication that we've turned a corner, there was some really serious interest from Newcastle and Leeds for Jake.

[J*B]

5 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Jutkiewicz across his entire senior career has averaged 9.63 aerial duels won per game, Gestede 9.75. I'd say it's a very fair and accurate comparison.

For context, what has Sam Gallagher got?

[rigger]

6 minutes ago, J*B said:

Huge. I suspect this time next year he’s ahead of Pickering. 

As an attacking  Left wing back, he is pushing Pickering now. Maybe not as a defensive wing-back.

[imy9]

24 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Jake Batty has signed on. Good stuff

This and the signing of Wharton and Phillips is a great indicator that we finally seem to have a plan for our immediate future.

exciting times!

[Hasta]

1 hour ago, J*B said:

I’m a huge Ash Phillips fan, it wouldn’t surprise me if he captained England one day. But nobody can argue that as a centre back, Phillips has to win that header and the reason Hyam was off-guard was everybody expected him to win the header.

Like Arbito says, he was naive and hopefully he will learn from that. We got away with it. 

Yes he was beaten in the air but Hyam was clumsy and off balance in his attempted clearance, and that for me was the bigger error of the two. He shouldn't be off-guard that his inexperienced 17yo centre back partner gets out jumped by an established 6ft+ championship target man. He should anticipate that.

Am I slagging Hyam off. No. He just made a mistake for the goal. He's been outstanding since he signed.

Phillips made the kind of error many defenders will against people like Jutkiewitz in this league. 

[Exiled_Rover]

1 hour ago, Sparks Rover said:

the goal was because AP didnt win his battle.  He was tired and too weak.   The other stuff you mention is irrelevant as no goals were conceded.

Only because Kaminski made some fantastic saves (both directly from a #10 header and his knockdowns). 

You're better than that.

[Exiled_Rover]

1 hour ago, Sparks Rover said:

Yep, spot on.  Its an experience and maturation issue.  His body cannot play a full 90 mins in that position, especially as other teams bring on fresh forwards on 60+ minutes, plus he doesn't have the experience to recoginise his opponents strength and use his body to at least take him off balance.  Its an age thing, he'll learn but i just hope it doesn't cost us points whilst he is learning and growing.

He didn't play 90 minutes, he was brought on as a substitute when Hedges went off injured on the hour mark. 

[Exiled_Rover]

11 minutes ago, imy9 said:

This and the signing of Wharton and Phillips is a great indicator that we finally seem to have a plan for our immediate future.

exciting times!

It's not so much we have a plan, it's that in JDT and Broughton we have two men who are able to sell a vision to highly sought after prospects and seal the deal.

Very exciting times indeed. 

[rigger]

1 hour ago, Sparks Rover said:

Yep, spot on.  Its an experience and maturation issue.  His body cannot play a full 90 mins in that position, especially as other teams bring on fresh forwards on 60+ minutes, plus he doesn't have the experience to recoginise his opponents strength and use his body to at least take him off balance.  Its an age thing, he'll learn but i just hope it doesn't cost us points whilst he is learning and growing.

Wasn't Phillips one of our subs ?

Edited October 25, 2022 by rigger

[Sparks Rover]

20 minutes ago, rigger said:

Wasn't Phillips one of our subs ?

Wasn't there, makes it even worse.  I'd be giving him a stint in the stiffs if we really want to go up....can't be experimenting too much.

Apologies I wasn't at the game so assumed he was tired.

[rigger]

2 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

Wasn't there, makes it even worse.  I'd be giving him a stint in the stiffs if we really want to go up....can't be experimenting too much.

Apologies I wasn't at the game so assumed he was tired.

It wasn't an experiment. It was a substitution due to an injury. Never assume, it will make an ass of u and me.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, J*B said:

For context, what has Sam Gallagher got?

There’s a world of difference between winning an headed contest were the ball goes anywhere and winning an heading duel were the ball goes where you want it to go. Gally might win a few of the former but not many of the latter.

Edited October 25, 2022 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[roversfan99]

I bet Gallagher gets a few just by often standing at the near post on corners too, Even assuming that the data across these players careers is accurate, like with a lot of data, limited in usefulness.

[1864roverite]

1 hour ago, Exiled_Rover said:

It's not so much we have a plan, it's that in JDT and Broughton we have two men who are able to sell a vision to highly sought after prospects and seal the deal.

Very exciting times indeed. 

Is it not  case of the back room team actually knowing what the fuck they are doing😀

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, Exiled_Rover said:

It's not so much we have a plan, it's that in JDT and Broughton we have two men who are able to sell a vision to highly sought after prospects and seal the deal.

Very exciting times indeed. 

Rovers under GB and JDT, we deffo have a plan for the short-, medium- and long-term planning for Rovers future. 

[RV Blue]

Are people seriously saying that Phillips is ready right now? It’s been obvious to me after seeing him a couple of times that he’s just not. We’ve clearly promised him first team minutes to sign the contract, which is why he’s being played at times now when he wouldn’t be on merit alone. Whether the long term gains outweigh the short term pain of this approach remains to be seen, if he eventually turns into a £30m player it will probably have been worth us conceding a few poor goals early on in his career.

[Dreams of 1995]

Fantastic news about Batty. 
 

You know, it’s so refreshing to hear of all these young lads getting their contracts signed and chances in the first team. To a man they must be brimming with confidence right now. I’m over the moon we have a coach like JDT who is willing to throw them right in at the deep end and let them display their character. 
And here we speak about short and long term plans. Whilst in the present we have JDT to thank for his trust and confidence in them we must surely look back at the past for who to really thank. It once again comes back to Uncle Jack. For without his investment and his foresight the academy may not exist. When we speak long term planning we should use this as the barometer - yes investment made with the love at the club, but also with a sensible mind that the future of the game was changing, and to compete we would need to develop our own. 
We haven’t had too many successes but right now without that investment our squad and our standing in the league could be well and truly diminished. The likes of Lenihan and Nyambe stepped up to get us out of L1 and now the rest may be standing up to get us out the Championship, although not counting my chickens (sorry) yet. 
These current owners have not and will never show that level of commitment to the club. To put in place good investments that see the club in good fortune 20+ years after they are made. This is the true definition of long term planning. We have a lot to thank Jack for, and whilst the hard work was continued by the fantastic academy staff, the foundations he put in place have given us boys like the Wharton’s - home grown lads who are playing out of their skins for the club they support. 
 

Will we in 20, 30 years time have the same thanks for the Venkys? I don’t think so. Under their watch Jacks investments are crumbling and we would all be wise to remember their plans to effectively dismantle the academy in favour of a housing scheme. 
So when we think long term we judge on what we are accustomed to. I am excited for the short term, I think we have a good bunch in the football side right now, but still live in dread of what will be left the day we finally rid ourselves of the careless Venkys. Jack’s investments will not last forever but right now they are still coming to our rescue as we could surely not afford to buy a squad that has the talent we have produced. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, J*B said:

For context, what has Sam Gallagher got?

Wins on average around 3.3 per game this season. In his whole career it's a little higher at 5.9.

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

I bet Gallagher gets a few just by often standing at the near post on corners too, Even assuming that the data across these players careers is accurate, like with a lot of data, limited in usefulness.

The data is very accurate, and comes from an industry leader in data analytics, used by all the top clubs.

I think the amount of headers you win can be objectively assessed by your Aerial Win %.

[roversfan99]

4 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Wins on average around 3.3 per game this season. In his whole career it's a little higher at 5.9.

The data is very accurate, and comes from an industry leader in data analytics, used by all the top clubs.

I think the amount of headers you win can be objectively assessed by your Aerial Win %.

Like I said with Gallagher which won't be matched by all strikers, he often goes on the near post at corners so he will win headers there without being contested. He also regularly plays wide, so comes against smaller full backs but also in positions whereby he is less likely to be winning headers potentially in the first place. So many variables.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Like I said with Gallagher which won't be matched by all strikers, he often goes on the near post at corners so he will win headers there without being contested. He also regularly plays wide, so comes against smaller full backs but also in positions whereby he is less likely to be winning headers potentially in the first place. So many variables.

I think the reason his win rate is lower this year is because he's been playing more centrally yes, agreed. This conversation that we're having now though is always there, the metric itself tells us nothing but the context of his position paired with the metric tells us a lot.