Academy & U21s

[ben_the_beast]

The entire purpose of the academy is to feed the first team and its doing an incredible job in doing so. The fact its being used to maintain match fitness of the first team is an added benefit which also brings huge value for our younger players, getting the opportunity to play with and learn from senior pros. 

The fact we played such a strong team against Forest is of little concern. It wasn't done to ensure we dispatch them with ease, it was done with development and fitness in mind. The win is positive, but that success to me is just a small part of the bigger picture and goal of the academy.

[ben_the_beast]

Given the quality and rate of youngsters developing into first team players, it does give me a feeling we're seeing the start of something special. Should we still be in the championship in a couple of years I don't think it's a stretch to say 8 or 9 of our strongest 11 could be either academy graduates or youth players who've joined us aged around 16. 

Balance that with ambition and a few shrewd additions and the future is beginning to look very bright.

Reputations matter. Our academy coupled with the open pathway to the first team is going to make us an increasingly attractive proposition to any younger players. The clubs and Jack's vision are looking like a reality and the momentum which is building is only going to increase.

[arbitro]

Everything at any football club is geared towards the first team and as such Tomasson wanted to give several players game time who needed it because they might be required for the run in. Imagine Rankin-Cancelo getting injured and Brittain struggling to get through games due to a lack of match fitness. We played Arsenal the other week with a full complement of players with first team experience and not a word said.

[47er]

4 players from the Academy started the game at Huddersfield, and 3 were on the subs bench.

Not bad!

[Mattyblue]

End of the day it’s the ‘Premier League 2 Cup’, a fairly recently made up competition to give a bit of variety to U21/reserve football.

It’s not a prestigious competition going back to the early 1950s like the FA Youth Cup, so who gives a toss if JDT is utilising it like he already has been doing for PL2 league matches?

If we end up in the *actual* PL, then this policy of keeping all the first team squad match fit will have been a masterstroke. 

 

Edited April 12, 2023 by Mattyblue

[had.e.nuff]

i have never seen so many upset that we won a game and played within the rules of the competition, i think they have used the u21 better this season keeping 1st team players match fit 

[Sweaty Gussets]

5 minutes ago, had.e.nuff said:

i have never seen so many upset that we won a game and played within the rules of the competition, i think they have used the u21 better this season keeping 1st team players match fit 

There's only 1 person upset that I can see? 

Edited April 12, 2023 by Sweaty Gussets

[bluebruce]

10 minutes ago, had.e.nuff said:

i have never seen so many upset that we won a game and played within the rules of the competition, i think they have used the u21 better this season keeping 1st team players match fit 

It's just Sparks that seems upset. Granted he has posted about it repeatedly, but it's still just one guy.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

2 hours ago, bluebruce said:

It's just Sparks that seems upset. Granted he has posted about it repeatedly, but it's still just one guy.

I think he wanted a game. Maybe he took his boots down just in case.

[Tugayisgod]

 

[riverholmes]

On 12/04/2023 at 12:51, ben_the_beast said:

Given the quality and rate of youngsters developing into first team players, it does give me a feeling we're seeing the start of something special. Should we still be in the championship in a couple of years I don't think it's a stretch to say 8 or 9 of our strongest 11 could be either academy graduates or youth players who've joined us aged around 16. 

Balance that with ambition and a few shrewd additions and the future is beginning to look very bright.

Reputations matter. Our academy coupled with the open pathway to the first team is going to make us an increasingly attractive proposition to any younger players. The clubs and Jack's vision are looking like a reality and the momentum which is building is only going to increase.

You might be right, but my impression is that the standard of the players coming through is not dissimilar or, perhaps, might be a bit lower, generally speaking, compared to previous years. However, given the financial circumstances that the club finds itself in, more are being given a chance at an earlier stage - and for longer. 

There's high hopes for Ash Phillips and Adam Wharton but, to my mind, they have yet to prove that they can turn their precocity into a consistent high standard - albeit, they are the special talents out of the crop. But, I do agree that, with exposure and development, players like Garrett and others could become solid Championship players and might even do better than that with a bit of luck.

--

On a different note, thanks for linking the highlights to the U23 game. Some excellent goals - including the consolation by Forest. Edun seems to do well at this level, especially, pushing upfield - however, his defensive game was, I think, exposed for their goal as he neglected the far post. (I assume it was Edun but stand corrected if not). It's very harsh to judge him in such a low status game when the team are cruising but it makes me wonder, again, if he has the mentality to make it at left back.

 

Edited April 14, 2023 by riverholmes

[Mattyblue]

Poorer standard compared to when?

The Duff and Dunn crop, perhaps, but that was 25 years ago.

We’ve never had an era in which we are churning out players that can operate in the first team on such a consistent basis.

[bluebruce]

The other day Sharpe said that something like 67 different players have been used in the U21s this year. From U18 players, through the U21s themselves, trialists, up to senior players dropping down for game time and sharpness. That's an awful lot of disruption, it's harder to gain results and become a cohesive unit when the personnel keeps shifting. I'm not criticising the strategy, I'm just saying we shouldn't read too much into the fact the U21s are struggling in the league. It doesn't mean they're a worse crop than previous ones.

[riverholmes]

23 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

Poorer standard compared to when?

The Duff and Dunn crop, perhaps, but that was 25 years ago.

We’ve never had an era in which we are churning out players that can operate in the first team on such a consistent basis.

Watchers of the youth set-up will know better but it does seem as if due to circumstances youth players are getting more of a chance than before.

We have had a strong U23 team (disbanding greatly this summer) and yet to see how the next crop fare. However, as an example I think the team with Willem Tomlinson and Lewis Hardcastle, Travis at right back and so on was extremely strong at that level. For different reasons Tomlinson and Hardcastle's careers fell away.

Incidentally, the three players that I was most hopeful about from the stellar U23 campaign led by Billy Barr were Lennie Cirino, Isaac Whitehall and Connor McBride...so that tells you what I know! Albeit Whitehall and Cirino have suffered from injuries and barely played this season.

Edited April 15, 2023 by riverholmes

[Sweaty Gussets]

As others have said we had Duff, Dunn, Johnson, Taylor come through at a similar time a long time ago.

What's happening now though is unprecedented in my time watching Rovers. 7 of the 18 man squad in our last game came through the Academy, and that didn't include the likes of Vale, Phillips, Batty and Buckley. 

I doubt there's an Academy anyway else in the EFL producing those kinds of numbers. 

 

[Mattyblue]

Who cares if we had a better ‘team’. The point of a club like us paying for a Cat A academy is to have a conveyor belt of players coming through. Diamonds amongst the rough.

Hardcastle and Tomlinson?! They ended up playing in non league (after getting a chance in league football). 

The players coming through in recent years have dozens to hundreds of Championship games under their belts, 17/18 year olds not looking out of place.

Of course this is a golden era for the academy.

Edited April 15, 2023 by Mattyblue

[rigger]

Not going too well, 0-2.

[bluebruce]

U18s beat Stoke 3-2 away. Two from Biniek, one from Nsangou. They sit 8th in the 13-team PL North. All the teams below them have at least 2 and as many as 4 games in hand, not sure how that has happened but still, there's no relegation in that league.

Sadly, the U21s are losing 2-0 at home to Tottenham in their vital fixture. We're only 38 minutes in. Not looking good, lose this and relegation seems likely to me. The only players with senior experience fielded are Phillips, Edun and Mola, so Sparks Rover will be happy.

[bluebruce]

Looking a bit closer, not so sure about those selection choices...I don't actually watch many of the U21 games at all, but seems odd that the likes of Burns, Gilsenan and Weston sit the bench given some of the starters. Purely based on what I hear about these players, and how little I've heard about some of the lads starting, though. And Burns isn't long back from an injury I think?

Edited April 15, 2023 by bluebruce

[Sweaty Gussets]

3 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

Looking a bit closer, not so sure about those selection choices...I don't actually watch many of the U21 games at all, but seems odd that the likes of Burns, Gilsenan and Weston sit the bench given some of the starters. Purely based on what I hear about these players, and how little I've heard about some of the lads starting, though. And Burns isn't long back from an injury I think?

Burns has been told he can leave I think, along with a few others. That might be part of the reason he's on the bench. 

[simongarnerisgod]

6 minutes ago, Sweaty Gussets said:

Burns has been told he can leave I think, along with a few others. That might be part of the reason he's on the bench. 

im`e surprised burns never got a chance with the 1st team,from the few times iv`e seen him play he was a busy,bustling type in the style of paul dickov,compared to vale and butterworth he was  better than both of them

[bluebruce]

13 minutes ago, simongarnerisgod said:

im`e surprised burns never got a chance with the 1st team,from the few times iv`e seen him play he was a busy,bustling type in the style of paul dickov,compared to vale and butterworth he was  better than both of them

Agree with all of that. Butterworth did look class in flashes early doors tbf, but proved to be a lazy git.

I've also heard that Burns will be released, don't think there's been an official announcement on it yet though. If they think that's affecting his mentality then fair enough, but if he's on the bench purely because we won't be continuing to develop him next year, that's a mistake given how crucial this game is to the U21s.

Some might not think much of it, but I think there's definite harm done by being relegated from the top U21 league. It just gives us that bit less prestige that will make it a little harder to recruit at all youth levels. It means the players won't be tested against as good players, which could harm their development (and if they excel at the lower level they could be in for a bigger shock when they get a first team callup...plus managers might be more reluctant to call them up because the level they've been tested at is even further from first team). It means when first team players drop down for match sharpness, they're also getting a weaker standard. Just has lots of little knock on effects, and whilst it's not an absolute disaster and could be remedied in a season potentially, I'll certainly be unhappy about it if we go down.

Wow, whilst I've been writing, we've got it back to 2-2!!!

[bluebruce]

Two Ethan Walker penalties to bring us level, 49th minute and 52nd minute, wtf are Spurs' defence playing at? Lol

Stats suggest a fairly even game so far.

[Sweaty Gussets]

3-2 up now.......O'Grady-Macken with our 3rd. 

[1874]

A vital win to stand any chance of surviving. Fantastic turnaround from 2-0 down. Are you watching first team!!