[Archived] Extra ! Extra ! Read All About It !

[K-Hod]

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/14499794.IN_PICTURES_VIDEO__Huge_fire_at_former_Accrington_Conservative_Club_after_suspected_arson/?ref=mr&lp=1- big fire at the old Conservative Club in Accy/Churchill's bar for those around my age.....

[Al]

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/14499794.IN_PICTURES_VIDEO__Huge_fire_at_former_Accrington_Conservative_Club_after_suspected_arson/?ref=mr&lp=1- big fire at the old Conservative Club in Accy/Churchill's bar for those around my age.....

Bloody hell. What a mess and arson suspected. WHY?

[joey_big_nose]

I repeat, Labour are unelectable without support from Scotland who now vote SNP. It's brilliant!

And I repeat - politics doesn't work that way. Parties move around to find a workable platform. Labour are trying to find theirs, just in the same way that the Tories did under IDS etc. We are not a one party state, people will find a way of kicking the government out if they don't like them (increasingly the case at the minute).

[JBiz]

Bloody hell. What a mess and arson suspected. WHY?

Listed building! It's an absolute scandal how, in the end - those who bought these buildings will ultimately be selling them worse off of knocking them down despite the heritage aspect. Renovation should be necassary, and within a time frame.

That building is stunning, similar to the Commercial they are currently pulling down. Just think of how that location could look with classic buildings and the canal improved?

Instead it's been allowed to rot over time. As I said before, this kind of building should be taken off the owners if they can't keep it up to standard. This country should be able to afford to invest in such architecture. Look at Edinburgh, I know it escaped the blitz but it's a simply stunning city.

The small towns of the north bare so much history, evidenced by the investment back in the late 1800s, yet we flatten the lasting buildings for a flat packed 2 minute job. Even if well designed buildings replace those, renovation would ensure future generations interest.

I know some builders would argue the extent of the disrepair but it would be nice for government to prevent that in the first place.

[jim mk2]

Thats all well and good, but unless you win the middle ground swing vote, Labour will remain in opposition. They need to pull the Tory trIck of getting elected on a central-ish mandate, then go about a set of policies Thatcher may have backed away from. Corbyn isnt that guy who can get those marginal voters.

Andy Burham or Dan Jarvis are the 2 electable people in the Labour Party at present.

Andy Burnham has put his name in the hat for Manchester mayor - though as a Scouser and Everton supporter I can't see him being successful.

With regards to the centre ground, Ed Miliband tried that in the last election by offering a "Tory-lite" agenda that voters were unable to distinguish from the Tory offering. Corbyn has the chance to offer a vision of a radical alternative to the freemarket neo-liberal doctrine that has destroyed much of the fabric of this country over the past 30 years - let's hope he can do it.

[Baz]

Andy Burnham has put his name in the hat for Manchester mayor - though as a Scouser and Everton supporter I can't see him being successful.

With regards to the centre ground, Ed Miliband tried that in the last election by offering a "Tory-lite" agenda that voters were unable to distinguish from the Tory offering. Corbyn has the chance to offer a vision of a radical alternative to the freemarket neo-liberal doctrine that has destroyed much of the fabric of this country over the past 30 years - let's hope he can do it.

I believe Andy Burnham is going to do both roles (shadow cabinet & mayor) if he gets the mayoral nod. It gives him the opportunity to make a name as a leader, and seperates him from Corbyn if/when the next election goes badly, but keeps him inline if it goes better than expected.

Al is correct, unless you can get the SNP vote to go back to Labour, then you're looking at a coalition at best for Labour at this point. Corbyn is not doing enough with the 9(?) u-turns by the government in 12 months, any serious contender would have them on the ropes in the press by now, Ive hardly heard Corbyn mentioning it.

I think a Corbyn leadership would be a much fairer society, I just cant see it being elected.

[jim mk2]

I believe Andy Burnham is going to do both roles (shadow cabinet & mayor) if he gets the mayoral nod. It gives him the opportunity to make a name as a leader, and seperates him from Corbyn if/when the next election goes badly, but keeps him inline if it goes better than expected.

Al is correct, unless you can get the SNP vote to go back to Labour, then you're looking at a coalition at best for Labour at this point. Corbyn is not doing enough with the 9(?) u-turns by the government in 12 months, any serious contender would have them on the ropes in the press by now, Ive hardly heard Corbyn mentioning it.

I think a Corbyn leadership would be a much fairer society, I just cant see it being elected.

The SNP is at a peak now in terms of its popularity. It can only go one way from now on. By 2020 the election picture in Scotland is likely to have changed again.

[ABBEY]

I believe Andy Burnham is going to do both roles (shadow cabinet & mayor) if he gets the mayoral nod. It gives him the opportunity to make a name as a leader, and seperates him from Corbyn if/when the next election goes badly, but keeps him inline if it goes better than expected.

Al is correct, unless you can get the SNP vote to go back to Labour, then you're looking at a coalition at best for Labour at this point. Corbyn is not doing enough with the 9(?) u-turns by the government in 12 months, any serious contender would have them on the ropes in the press by now, Ive hardly heard Corbyn mentioning it.

I think a Corbyn leadership would be a much fairer society, I just cant see it being elected.

Corbyn will never get my vote .. No time for snivelling terrorist sympathisers .

[ABBEY]

Condolences to the families of the people on the air Egypt plane.

[Biddy]

The SNP is at a peak now in terms of its popularity. It can only go one way from now on. By 2020 the election picture in Scotland is likely to have changed again.

Personally I think the SNP will be strong in Scotland for a very long time now. I didn't think Ed Milliband had particular center/center right policies. I thought most press at the time said he was too left if anything. That and the fear of an SNP coalition boosted the Tory vote.

[Al]

The SNP is at a peak now in terms of its popularity. It can only go one way from now on. By 2020 the election picture in Scotland is likely to have changed again.

Hope springs eternal.

[K-Hod]

As much as I think Jim is being a bit optimistic, the SNP seem a bit pointless as Scotland had their chance at independence and voted against it. In any case, I've got grave doubts that Scotland could support itself and assume all the costs currently covered by the government.

I just don't see that they should keep getting a referendum until they vote against being part of the UK. They're worse losers than Jose Mourinho....

[yoda]

Hope springs eternal.

As much as I think Jim is being a bit optimistic, the SNP seem a bit pointless as Scotland had their chance at independence and voted against it. In any case, I've got grave doubts that Scotland could support itself and assume all the costs currently covered by the government.

I just don't see that they should keep getting a referendum until they vote against being part of the UK. They're worse losers than Jose Mourinho....

Jim has a valid point, the SNP are now in the spotlight and have to start delivering instead of talking, the signs are not encouraging.

[oldjamfan1]

Jim has a valid point, the SNP are now in the spotlight and have to start delivering instead of talking, the signs are not encouraging.

They've been in power in Scotland for a few years now (albeit without an overall majority this time) and the cracks are starting to show.

[Steve Moss]

I think that is the very best that Labour can hope for and I doubt that they would be part of the coalition.

And I repeat - politics doesn't work that way. Parties move around to find a workable platform. Labour are trying to find theirs, just in the same way that the Tories did under IDS etc. We are not a one party state, people will find a way of kicking the government out if they don't like them (increasingly the case at the minute).

The SNP is at a peak now in terms of its popularity. It can only go one way from now on. By 2020 the election picture in Scotland is likely to have changed again.

As much as I think Jim is being a bit optimistic, the SNP seem a bit pointless as Scotland had their chance at independence and voted against it. In any case, I've got grave doubts that Scotland could support itself and assume all the costs currently covered by the government.

I just don't see that they should keep getting a referendum until they vote against being part of the UK. They're worse losers than Jose Mourinho....

I'm no expert on UK politics, but if I'm reading this correctly the Labour Party needs the support of a group (SNP), who doesn't even want to be part of the UK, to win elections. That's hilariously depressing.

[K-Hod]

I'm no expert on UK politics, but if I'm reading this correctly the Labour Party needs the support of a group (SNP), who doesn't even want to be part of the UK, to win elections. That's hilariously depressing.

I think historically Labour's core support has been the North of England and Scotland, that's what it boils down to.

It's largely true, but these things are cyclical Steve as I'm sure you'd agree. Like with politics anywhere

[Al]

As much as I think Jim is being a bit optimistic, the SNP seem a bit pointless as Scotland had their chance at independence and voted against it. In any case, I've got grave doubts that Scotland could support itself and assume all the costs currently covered by the government.

I just don't see that they should keep getting a referendum until they vote against being part of the UK. They're worse losers than Jose Mourinho....

I don't think they vote SNP for independence any more but they do vote for them because it ensures favourable legislation for Scotland such as free prescriptions and University fees. Would you vote against that if you were Scottish? They do rely on England to subsidise it however, especially since the oil price has dropped. I'm not sure why we put up with it.

[K-Hod]

I don't think they vote SNP for independence any more but they do vote for them because it ensures favourable legislation for Scotland such as free prescriptions and University fees. Would you vote against that if you were Scottish? They do rely on England to subsidise it however, especially since the oil price has dropped. I'm not sure why we put up with it.

They had those things before the SNP came to power though didn't they? So it seems like their raison d'etre would ultimately be cutting their nose off to spite their face. Surely they'd be voting for being part of the union to keep those things? It just seems mad and that the whole thing in Scotland was Alex Salmond whipping up existing anti-English sentiment to gain votes.

*This is what I can gather rather from what I've seen/read on the subject*.

[Al]

They had those things before the SNP came to power though didn't they? So it seems like their raison d'etre would ultimately be cutting their nose off to spite their face. Surely they'd be voting for being part of the union to keep those things? It just seems mad and that the whole thing in Scotland was Alex Salmond whipping up existing anti-English sentiment to gain votes.

*This is what I can gather rather from what I've seen/read on the subject*.

You are probably right but if I were a Scot I'd be wanting to make sure it stayed that way. For sure Labour need to reconvert Scotland if they have any hope of getting or even sharing power. Without the oil I don't think Scotland could support itself as an independent country any more.

[jim mk2]

Personally I think the SNP will be strong in Scotland for a very long time now. I didn't think Ed Milliband had particular center/center right policies. I thought most press at the time said he was too left if anything. That and the fear of an SNP coalition boosted the Tory vote.

Ed's policies were straight out of the neo-liberal manual. You should know better than believe what the right wing press says.

[JBiz]

Can you believe that there are still golf clubs that don't allow female members?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/golf/36331270

If you believe the press - they'd have you believe that sexism or gender inequality isn't so much of a western problem. This whole idea that Muirfield is a "gentleman's club" that has golf facilities is ridiculous.

I'm sure many others could point out opposite examples - but we are talking about one of the most prestigious courses in the UK. I'm fully behind the governing bodies decision to stop playing the the biggest and most prestigious competition, the open at this course.

[joey_big_nose]

I'm no expert on UK politics, but if I'm reading this correctly the Labour Party needs the support of a group (SNP), who doesn't even want to be part of the UK, to win elections. That's hilariously depressing.

Its more accurate to say Labour has lost a big base of support in Scotland to the SNP. They've never looked to power sharing with the SNP.

It would be possible for Labour to win control of government without Scotland, but would currently require a big swing against the Tories.

Al rather spuriously keeps on claiming Labour can never win a majority due to the rise of the SNP. However if you take Scotland out of the equation Blair would have still had an overall majority in 1997, 2002 and 2005.

[oldjamfan1]

Can you believe that there are still golf clubs that don't allow female members?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/golf/36331270

If you believe the press - they'd have you believe that sexism or gender inequality isn't so much of a western problem. This whole idea that Muirfield is a "gentleman's club" that has golf facilities is ridiculous.

I'm sure many others could point out opposite examples - but we are talking about one of the most prestigious courses in the UK. I'm fully behind the governing bodies decision to stop playing the the biggest and most prestigious competition, the open at this course.

The letter outlining members' objections was astonishing - here is but a small snippet from it:

“The introduction of lady members is bound to create difficulties. Regardless of the conventions when they first join they are likely over time to question our foursomes play, our match system, the uncompromising challenge our fine links present, our lunch arrangements. It will take a very special lady golfer to be able to do all the things that are expected of them in the template which is suggested and the ladies’ membership as a whole may not meet this standard."

And what about 'good old' Peter Alliss, who has suggested that women who want to play at Muirfield should marry a member!! Ignorant old fool.

And by the way, this isn't confined to the elite class in Scotland - I worked in a place called Wishaw for ten years. It is a small town near Motherwell, not unlike my own home town of Darwen in many respects actually. John Higgins, thrice world snooker champion is their most famous son. In Wishaw is a pub called The Imperial. Known locally as 'Tam Parks' (I called it Tam Pax) - women are not even allowed to serve behind the bar, let alone drink in the place. I don't know how they get away with it!!

[K-Hod]

I'm sure there's still a pub/wmc in Rishton that doesn't allow women, I may be wrong but can any resident Rishtoners clarify?

[yoda]

I'm sure there's still a pub/wmc in Rishton that doesn't allow women, I may be wrong but can any resident Rishtoners clarify?

There's only one club left I think and that is only just making a do (I know the steward and was talking to him last week, actually it's his missus's name on the door)