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[onlyonetugay]

It's amazing that politics gets as tribal as footy!

The thing I'm most concerned with is chasing up tax avoiders/evaders, rather than prioritising cuts to some of the most vulnerable in society. It's all well and good going on about bedroom tax, but if there isn't the available social housing to move people to then it's wrong for the most part. Yes, there are people on benefits that take the proverbial and it never should have been incentivised in some ways (i.e. some people being better off on benefits than working), but it's the system that is broken. Being on benefits for the most part really isn't a good life, thankfully I've only ever been unemployed for a short amount of time in my life and it was grim and I have no desire to ever be back in that situation ever again.

Yet again, too many people think that people on benefits are the real problem in the country rather than tax evaders/avoiders, when the latter cost the country far more money. Furthermore, there is so much more funding available to fix benefit fraud rather than the evaders/avoiders.

The cynic in me tells me that there is less of an appetite to fix this problem. But, this isn't a problem exclusive to this government, this has been going on for years. Whilst it stands to reason that people would want to pay the least amount of tax possible (who wouldn't?), morally it's pretty bankrupt. If this makes me a socialist, then so be it, but I don't think anything I believe in ties in with any real socialist principles. Maybe I could be accused of some naivety, there's possibly a case for that, but I suppose I simply believe in doing what is right.

I don't really feel like I can believe in any mainstream politicians due to a complete lack of honesty on their part. Ironically, the most honest seems to be Jeremy Corbyn, but his honesty is just about the only thing I really agree with him on, the guy seems far too outdated (or ahead of his time in SKH's view!). Even though Cameron et al are all considered 'moderate' Conservatives I still find them hard to trust, and all the rhetoric about a Northern Powerhouse has proven to be hot air. How much funding has London and the South had in comparison to the rest of the country, not just recently, but historically? This isn't about a Northern lad having a chip on my shoulder about it, it's just a fact. People could say why not move down South? But then, why would I do that? I've no reason to. Plus, that just exacerbates the problem.

Cross Rail which is in conjunction with the London Underground, has had loads of funding, the Northern Powerhouse has seen delay after delay. How long did it take for the Todmorden Curve (direct rail link from Accrington to Manchester) to be re-introduced? It seemed like a lifetime ago.

Anyway, I've rambled on and probably bored the hell out of the forum, so my apologies!!

Whether you believe the Northern Powerhouse is genuine or not , at least a party is actually paying the North some attention at last , even if, as some people would say, it's just lip service. What has Labour ever done to solve the problems of the North? Lets look on our own doorstep. We've had a Labour MP in Blackburn for going on 80 years with Labour governments in intervening years. Did Blackburn improve during that time? Did Labour save the textile industry? Did it save Mullards , Scapa , ROF, and other big companies in the borough? Labour pretends to represent the working people, but in reality it represents public sector workers, the increasing Muslim population, economic migrants and those who rely on benefits.

Governments "don't spend other people's money". They spend the tax take, ie the money that belongs to government to pay for public services, welfare, schools, the armed forces, police and so on. The money doesn't belong to you or I and if you think it's yours you try getting it back from HMRC or, even better, not paying it all (though some high profile companies seems to manage it). See how that works out in court.

That's hilarious , I'm guessing you work in the public sector

[jim mk2]

Whether you believe the Northern Powerhouse is genuine or not , at least a party is actually paying the North some attention at last , even if, as some people would say, it's just lip service. What has Labour ever done to solve the problems of the North? Lets look on our own doorstep. We've had a Labour MP in Blackburn for going on 80 years with Labour governments in intervening years. Did Blackburn improve during that time? Did Labour save the textile industry? Did it save Mullards , Scapa , ROF, and other big companies in the borough? Labour pretends to represent the working people, but in reality it represents public sector workers, the increasing Muslim population, economic migrants and those who rely on benefits.

The "Northern Powerhouse" is a Labour initiative from years back which Osborne stole (not the first time he has pinched Labour ideas) to con northern voters in the last election. In reality of course, as soon as they were elected the government cut back on rail electrification and other northern transport schemes. And in the past week or so, the govt has announced of the business department's Sheffield office and is moving its 300 staff to London. The Northern Powerhouse is just rhetoric and a sop to northern voters. Meanwhile the City of London-driven Tory govt continues to invest in London and the south while leaving the north with crumbs under the table. Northern Tory voters are the turkeys who vote for Christmas.

That's hilarious , I'm guessing you work in the public sector

Pretty daft reply that's got no connection to my post.

[onlyonetugay]

The "Northern Powerhouse" is a Labour initiative from years back which Osborne stole (not the first time he has pinched Labour ideas) to con northern voters in the last election. In reality of course, as soon as they were elected the government cut back on rail electrification and other northern transport schemes. And in the past week or so, the govt has announced of the business department's Sheffield office and is moving its 300 staff to London. The Northern Powerhouse is just rhetoric and a sop to northern voters. Meanwhile the City of London-driven Tory govt continues to invest in London and the south while leaving the north with crumbs under the table. Northern Tory voters are the turkeys who vote for Christmas.

Pretty daft reply that's got no connection to my post.

Well I thought your reply was pretty daft too, that's why I found it so funny and your constant " Northern Tory voters are the turkeys who vote for Christmas " is infantile and overused . What has Labour done for Blackburn? What sort of town have we got after having a Labour MP for 80 years? If the Northern Powerhouse was a Labour idea, what benefits did Blackburn get from it ? If you want an example of rhetoric and hypocrisy just google Dianne Abbott ( son at a private school) Harriett Harman ( all female parliamentary shortlists until it comes to her husband) Lady Nugee ( snob who makes fun of patriotic English people) all purporting to represent the working man.

I know you're fond of taglines so how about this one " The Labour metropolitan elite conning northern working people for generations "

[K-Hod]

In response to your question 'what has Labour done for Blackburn?'. Hyndburn MP Graham Jones raised the question in parliament about Venky's ownership

[onlyonetugay]

You've lost me there K - Hod

[K-Hod]

You've lost me there K - Hod

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-16987108

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-18440534

[jim mk2]

Well I thought your reply was pretty daft too, that's why I found it so funny and your constant " Northern Tory voters are the turkeys who vote for Christmas " is infantile and overused . What has Labour done for Blackburn? What sort of town have we got after having a Labour MP for 80 years? If the Northern Powerhouse was a Labour idea, what benefits did Blackburn get from it ? If you want an example of rhetoric and hypocrisy just google Dianne Abbott ( son at a private school) Harriett Harman ( all female parliamentary shortlists until it comes to her husband) Lady Nugee ( snob who makes fun of patriotic English people) all purporting to represent the working man.

I know you're fond of taglines so how about this one " The Labour metropolitan elite conning northern working people for generations "

It was a response to your cliched nonsense about Labour "spending other people's money" to which I pointed out that government money belongs to the government and not you or me. It's not difficult to understand.

Here's a message to all Tory voters: explain why they identify with a party packed full of millionaires who buy into the greed is a virtue philosophy, a party funded by a rogues gallery of tax dodgers, banking thieves, private health interests and the landed gentry.

This is a party crammed with people suffering a smug sense of superiority over the masses, people who believe they are special and a cut above the rest because they are rich, because they're Eton and Oxbridge educated, because they were born into wealthy establishment families, or because they just hate the "lower orders".

If you're not part of the 0.1 per cent in this country, only the most stupid and most gullible would ever vote for the Tory party.

[onlyonetugay]

Governments "don't spend other people's money". They spend the tax take, ie the money that belongs to government to pay for public services, welfare, schools, the armed forces, police and so on. The money doesn't belong to you or I and if you think it's yours you try getting it back from HMRC or, even better, not paying it all (though some high profile companies seems to manage it). See how that works out in court.

This really is hilarious ( I can imagine it coming from the mouth of John McDonnell , shadow chancellor and long time admirer of Chairman Mao ) and yes I should answer you in full. It is my money until I decide to hand it over to the government . I can choose if I want to earn under the tax threshold , so the government isn't going to get any of my money. I can choose to save in an ISA so again the government isn't going to get any of my money.I can rely on government handouts, again the government isn't getting any of my money.

I'm assuming your morals don't allow you to save in an ISA - good for you I say , let the government spend your taxed interest ( oops sorry it's their money isn't it) on all the public services you champion.

Finally a quote from a Labour MP, yes Labour MP Jack Straw championing a tax exile ( or a tax dodger to use your terminology) and someone who chose to avoid paying his full rate of tax.

"Jack Walker did more than any other individual in the last century to enhance the self-confidence and the prosperity of his home town. He was completely committed to the town and its people. Blackburn Rovers was in many ways the love of his life. His contribution to the club was enormous but that was based in turn on the prosperity he created through his astonishing development of Walker Steel and of many other investments in the area. I salute a great local hero and shall miss him very badly."

Now here was a guy who really contributed to the town. You've still to tell me what 80 years of Labour MPs has done for Blackburn

Thanks for the insults but who sounds stupid and gullible now ? Not difficult to understand eh ?

[Al]

Ukip's a one horse party (Farage) with only one policy (immigration). If we do leave the EU they won't have anything to stand for.

Then they will have done their job won't they?

[VinjayV4]

Finally a quote from a Labour MP, yes Labour MP Jack Straw championing a tax exile ( or a tax dodger to use your terminology) and someone who chose to avoid paying his full rate of tax.

"Jack Walker did more than any other individual in the last century to enhance the self-confidence and the prosperity of his home town. He was completely committed to the town and its people. Blackburn Rovers was in many ways the love of his life. His contribution to the club was enormous but that was based in turn on the prosperity he created through his astonishing development of Walker Steel and of many other investments in the area. I salute a great local hero and shall miss him very badly."

Now here was a guy who really contributed to the town. You've still to tell me what 80 years of Labour MPs has done for Blackburn

Thanks for the insults but who sounds stupid and gullible now ? Not difficult to understand eh ?

Well Jim once called Jack a disgrace for admiring Margaret Thatcher so probably feels the same about his tax exile status too.

Big difference between being a tax exile and being greedy. In that position would I be an exile too? Damn right!

Speaking of MP's Barbara Castle was certainly a big name and a force in Parliament. Not a fan of Jack Straw but at least he had a high profile albeit mainly due to his cabinet position. The current MP Kate Hollern is pretty much a nobody in comparison.

[adopted scouser]

Speaking of MP's Barbara Castle was certainly a big name and a force in Parliament.

Another champagne socialist. She used to travel to the outskirts of Blackburn in a chauffeur driven government car, then hop into a Ford Anglia to drive into town.

Jim's only interested if they went to Eton, subscribing to his 'Lord Snooty' obsession.

[VinjayV4]

Remember as a kid having no idea who she was and calling her road "banana castle way".

[Baz]

Yes a doctor invited to speak at a conference along with Labour MP , Graham Stringer, Ian Paisley of the DUP and an asssortment of Conservative MPs, so basically covering the whole political spectrum ( apart from the xenophobic SNP) . If you read the whole article ( did you ?) the conference was organised by a Conservative MEP , so I'm assuming he was responsible for the invites and not Nigel Farage.

I find it amazing that you make no comment on the fact that a senior consultant , who I'm sure knows a heck of a lot more about the NHS than me and you, states that the service is being financially compromised by health tourists from the EU . However I'm guessing that Labour's answer would be to pour more taxpayers money into the NHS, to fund these EU health tourists . Socialists are wonderful at spending other people's money.

Embarrassing for David Cameron ? Jeremy Corbyn is one long running embarrassment and most right minded Labour voters know it .

Yes I read the article, its a conference for people organising the campaign for exiting the EU. What's your point? Can the speaker quantify the money being spent on health tourism, in order for the comment about bleeding the NHS dry? What is the definition of a health tourist?

If you don't think it's embarrassing for Cameron his mother is objecting to the cuts his party are pushing through, then you are extremely blinkered. I never mentioned Corbyn either. You ought to stop just repeating the tory soundbites, and form your own opinions. It's pretty boring just reading the same things about Corbyn, Abbott etc...

[JBiz]

I can choose if I want to earn under the tax threshold , so the government isn't going to get any of my money. I can choose to save in an ISA so again the government isn't going to get any of my money.I can rely on government handouts, again the government isn't getting any of my money.

I'm assuming your morals don't allow you to save in an ISA - good for you I say , let the government spend your taxed interest ( oops sorry it's their money isn't it) on all the public services you champion.

[/color]

I'm not quite sure what you're getting at.

The amount of people who are vying for low paid work, it's difficult to earn above that amount without basic education never mind choosing to live below it. Half of accrington wouldn't even know what an ISA is, ironic that it's mentioned; because the % record lows are a result of a government ignoring the public.

It now costs 50k to get a degree. Compound that with savage cuts in school budgets in the north, (compared to other boroughs) where does that leave those without the benefit of opportunities outside of a comprehensive?

Stopping the bursary for nursing degrees when the NHS is stretched to a point where the outcome of any intervention seems negligible... Yet we concentrate on who's to blame, still.

Public service is the lifeblood of any country, how can any society go without trained nurses, doctors, teachers, social workers and so on?

Benefits are necessary for some who cannot work. Especially those who'd previously paid all NI contributions through work but had to leave for health reasons.

Some people genuinely have the ability to work taken from them- this is often forgotten in sweeping blasts on "benefits Britain".

[jim mk2]

This really is hilarious ( I can imagine it coming from the mouth of John McDonnell , shadow chancellor and long time admirer of Chairman Mao ) and yes I should answer you in full. It is my money until I decide to hand it over to the government . I can choose if I want to earn under the tax threshold , so the government isn't going to get any of my money. I can choose to save in an ISA so again the government isn't going to get any of my money.I can rely on government handouts, again the government isn't getting any of my money.

I'm assuming your morals don't allow you to save in an ISA - good for you I say , let the government spend your taxed interest ( oops sorry it's their money isn't it) on all the public services you champion.

This is incoherent nonsense. If you're in work and earning above a certain level you don't have a choice about paying taxes. Everyone pays, and once that tax and national insurance money is taken it belongs to the government. Your money (to invest in Isas if you wish) is the money that is left. It's pretty simple really.

[Steve Moss]

If you don't think it's embarrassing for Cameron his mother is objecting to the cuts his party are pushing through, then you are extremely blinkered. I never mentioned Corbyn either. You ought to stop just repeating the tory soundbites, and form your own opinions. It's pretty boring just reading the same things about Corbyn, Abbott etc...

Why? Are Cameron's relatives supposed to be robots and agree with him 100% of the time?

I'm the eldest of 7. I have many aunts, uncles, cousins. Including my parents (now deceased) we had lively political debates around the kitchen table and the back porch during family gatherings. Some agreed on somethings sometimes and disagreed on others at other times.

Reasonable intelligent minds can disagree on many different political issues. That some would consider that an embarrassment is more a reflection on them, then it is on the two family members who have a difference of opinion.

[K-Hod]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/drug-dealer-posts-obscene-facebook-7347507

Whenever Accy makes national news it's usually for the wrong reasons. The one person who was has helped him avoid jail is told to suck something of his.

[onlyonetugay]

Yes I read the article, its a conference for people organising the campaign for exiting the EU. What's your point? Can the speaker quantify the money being spent on health tourism, in order for the comment about bleeding the NHS dry? What is the definition of a health tourist?

If you don't think it's embarrassing for Cameron his mother is objecting to the cuts his party are pushing through, then you are extremely blinkered. I never mentioned Corbyn either. You ought to stop just repeating the tory soundbites, and form your own opinions. It's pretty boring just reading the same things about Corbyn, Abbott etc...

Well if it's pretty boring reading the same things about Corbyn , Abbott , etc , then don't read them. You class war people ignore the fact that your front line troops are hypocrites. It goes to the core of what the Labour party purports to represent. . I'm trying to open your eyes a little wider........it'[s obviously not working.

If you take off your red tinted glasses you'll find that other people might have different opinions than you. If you can't cope with that then so be it, you obviously need to mature a little. Just because David Cameron has a political opinion, it doesn't mean his mother has to follow blindly. My Grandad was a socialist , my Dad was a Liberal councillor, but that doesn't mean I have to share their views. My Grandad welcomed my Dad's different opinions , my Dad welcomed mine . We certainly weren't embarrassed by them.

Right with regard to the conference , you said Nigel Farage invited the doctor , there is nowhere in the article that states that , so that's why I asked you if you'd read it , because if you had, you'd have known that , and wouldn't have made such an inaccurate statement. I was pointing out that the conference, which had various speakers, wasn't some sort of right wing conspiracy as it included a well respected Labour MP Graham Stringer. When you say that the conference wasn't "neutral" , not much in politics is , that's just something you'll just have to accept .

As far as how much the good doctor thinks is spent on health tourists and what his definition of health tourists is , I think you're better off emailing him to get an answer on that one.

[onlyonetugay]

This is incoherent nonsense. If you're in work and earning above a certain level you don't have a choice about paying taxes. Everyone pays, and once that tax and national insurance money is taken it belongs to the government. Your money (to invest in Isas if you wish) is the money that is left. It's pretty simple really.

I can choose to earn below a certain level and not pay tax, so I do have a choice about paying taxes. What do you not understand about that because it sounds pretty simple to me

[onlyonetugay]

It was a response to your cliched nonsense about Labour "spending other people's money" to which I pointed out that government money belongs to the government and not you or me. It's not difficult to understand.

Here's a message to all Tory voters: explain why they identify with a party packed full of millionaires who buy into the greed is a virtue philosophy, a party funded by a rogues gallery of tax dodgers, banking thieves, private health interests and the landed gentry.

This is a party crammed with people suffering a smug sense of superiority over the masses, people who believe they are special and a cut above the rest because they are rich, because they're Eton and Oxbridge educated, because they were born into wealthy establishment families, or because they just hate the "lower orders".

If you're not part of the 0.1 per cent in this country, only the most stupid and most gullible would ever vote for the Tory party.

So the late great Jack Walker was a tax exile. A tax dodger in your eyes? Someone who avoided tax. So how can you support the modern Blackburn Rovers. I'm assuming you stopped going when he took control. How could your political ideology allow you to sit in the ground his millions rebuilt and watch a team his millions bought, whilst he was dodging tax ? On the other hand if you did carry on supporting the Rovers , you swallowed your ideals for purely personal gain and so you're just like Dianne, Harriet and Lady Nugee

[K-Hod]

Living in Jersey or another tax haven is surely quite a bit different to living in Mainland Britain and using tax evasion schemes!

[onlyonetugay]

Living in Jersey or another tax haven is surely quite a bit different to living in Mainland Britain and using tax evasion schemes!

Using tax evasion schemes is a criminal offence , so yes very different .

Being a tax exile is tax avoidance and perfectly legal

[JBiz]

Being a tax exile is tax avoidance and perfectly legal

But morally reprehensible if you've spent your entire life living in a country, benefiting from it's services and more than likely made your fortune through business started here.

That doesn't mean that JW is bad like you pointed at Jim, but it does mean the system is completely flawed.

[yoda]

But morally reprehensible if you've spent your entire life living in a country, benefiting from it's services and more than likely made your fortune through business started here.

That doesn't mean that JW is bad like you pointed at Jim, but it does mean the system is completely flawed.

He was asking Jim a question because Jim thinks tax avoidance is just as bad as tax evasion

[jim mk2]

I can choose to earn below a certain level and not pay tax, so I do have a choice about paying taxes. What do you not understand about that because it sounds pretty simple to me

The personal tax allowance is £10,600 above which you pay tax at 20 per cent up to about £42,000 when the higher rate kicks in. If you are "choosing" not to pay tax, then presumably you are earning below the £10,600 level. If you are earning more than that level and not paying tax, then you are "choosing" to evade tax - which will result ultimately in nasty letters from HMRC and possibly a court appearance. It's your choice.