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[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Get what you're saying Vinjay, the threat to each of our lives when looked at statistically is miniscule. And I agree an over-reaction would make things worse.

My argument is an under-reaction will allow things to continue down the current path, which is one that's getting worse. The threat to our lives is miniscule now but that can change.

What would people have thought 20 years ago if you'd said pretty soon there will be a fanatical death cult ruling swathes of the Middle East and butchering every non-Muslim they can get their hands on. And not only that, hundreds of Brits will go join this death cult, with likely thousands wanting to try. There will be attacks every few months (because this will continue) carried out by European citizens on the streets of Euroe killing between tens and hundreds of people each time.

Disbelieving horror is the reaction I'd imagine you'd have got. What will be going on 20 years from now? Consider what would you wpuld be horrified by and struggle to believe, and if things don't change that'll be a good bet.

[ABBEY]

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/655115/Migrants-pensioners-Munich-walk-free

words fail again

[perthblue02]

In other news, glad to see New Zealand made the sensible choice and kept their flag in the estimated NZ$26 Million (approx 12 million GBP) cost referendum.

Although if the initial peoples choice had made it through the judging stage sure this would have won

[Steve Moss]

Donald Trump has made a "Snake" video. It's this type of brazenness which will likely propel him to the White House, IMO. This are uncertain days, people are nervous, and they will innately turn to a fighter, regardless of how coarse his language might be.

http://clashdaily.com/2016/03/watch-donald-trumps-the-snake-video-is-going-viral-in-europe-guess-who-hates-this/?utm_source=referral&utm_medium=facebook.com&utm_campaign=lasmpfb

[VinjayV4]

Trying to put people in boxes like that is never a good ploy Vinjay

I don't think its quite the same as calling people "terrorist sympathisers" to suggest someone might read the Sun.

[yoda]

I don't think its quite the same as calling people "terrorist sympathisers" to suggest someone might read the Sun.

Sorry, I am not sure what your point is

[JBiz]

'Overreaction' to these senseless and brutal massacres jbizzle?....Jesus wept!

Talk of 'overreaction' to the family's of the dead.

It's pertinent you mention the families, because I'd think many here wouldn't know who they are- but I doubt many would need to google the perpetrators.

That's the point, the "general" media reaction ultimately sways people's reactions.

[JBiz]

First one is Reductio ad Absurdum. A reaction can be any number of productive efforts, if nothing else then the simple admission by the public in this country that there are serious, dangerous problems with Islam and they need confronting. That would put pressure on Islamic leaders/scholars/Imams to start confronting them, which is the only way this is ever going to be solved. The current stock reaction of criticise the reaction to the event and maintain a deathly silence on the actual event, is hugely obstructive to finding a solution.

And personally I'm sick of hearing that last one. Accusing anyone who disagrees with you of being brainwashed by "tabloid-shaped views" is a ridiculous argument, and very insulting. Your view and anyone who agrees with you is laboriously constructed, extensively researched and totally independent. Anyone who disagrees with you is a mindless drone who hears something and repeats it?

The stock reaction is what feeds the "terror". The atrocity is the end product of a long line of issues and causes, if it is simple as "banning extreme Islam" wouldn't this be over already?

Putting pressure on the right places is something that I can agree with, but you are quoting a post I replied to calling anyone who disagreed "terrorist sympathisers". Personally, I don't believe we should "hang all suspected terrorists" or believe it's fair the millions of people displaced by violence to be referred to as "the silent army" (or words to a similar effect*) but I'm not a sympathiser of the vermin that breed such hatred.

I'm personally sick and tired of the people on social media spouting hatred in return. My examples on here, often ill worded or planned - at least based on what I think, as opposed to what I'm told to think. If you don't think that platforms such as this, other social media etc - are dominated by the regurgated trash found on tomorrow's chip paper - you mustn't see half of what I see. Heck, some of the stuff you find in the papers is lifted word for word from forums...

An opinion based on what I read, watch, hear and discuss. I could give a hoot if anyone thinks what I write is"arrogant" or if anyone is "sick of hearing", don't read it. SKH- I'm quite happy to discuss things with you anytime as you can at least elaborate, and whilst I may disagree - I respect your stance.

That doesn't mean I can't criticise or argue the point!

[JBiz]

To be fair he's consistent ... Anyone says black he says white .

More awkward and argumentative than my two ex wives !

Exactly . One death is bad enough but multiple and I'm overreacting

Can't stay away from personal discussion, why not add some weight to the claim anyone not ready to bring back the death penalty as a "terrorist sympathiser"?

If you read the post, I was referring to the media reaction. The way western media portrays such events, completely as those wishing terror would want.

A solid stance is necessary but retaliation in the form of bombs, draconian measures, guns etc - it's just more death.

ABBEY, does it not pain you to think we STILL live in a world with private subsidised arms companies exist, chaired by friends of those chosen to the run the country?

[Baz]

In other news, glad to see New Zealand made the sensible choice and kept their flag in the estimated NZ$26 Million (approx 12 million GBP) cost referendum.

Although if the initial peoples choice had made it through the judging stage sure this would have won

The sensible choice would have been the silver fern. Although Im always up for anyone sticking it up to the guy trying to big himself up. Love the Laser Kiwi though.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/655115/Migrants-pensioners-Munich-walk-free

words fail again

Another incident the welcome migrants placard brigade should feel responsible for. Literally the only reason that story isn't about the London Underground is that we didn't have a Labour government in at the time, trying to out-do Merkel in who can be Europe's most recklessly charitable.

I wonder where the families of those 3 men are? Did they flee them whilst they were fleeing conflict? Or are they part of the (in my opinion majority) group who simply came for a better pay day and as such have little gratitude, loyalty and respect for the country they ended up in.

Its somewhere between sickening and grimly amusing that they migrated to Germany because its good, and then assaulted on the subway the very people who've spent their whole lives making it good.

[ultrablue]

Another incident the welcome migrants placard brigade should feel responsible for. Literally the only reason that story isn't about the London Underground is that we didn't have a Labour government in at the time, trying to out-do Merkel in who can be Europe's most recklessly charitable.

No the reason this story is not about the London Underground is because any of the hundreds of similar assaults that happen every year on the tube would not be considered 'newsworthy', unless there were some wider political point to be exploited.

"Drunk idiot in London roughs up old man, gets fined." is not a national story, but "Migrant attacks pensioner in Munich, walks free" - now that sells.

[Audax]

This is true; but what is bad about the Belgium attacks is now, they are saying the terrorists wanted to attack the nuclear reactor and even had one of the directors at the reactor under surveillance.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/brussels-bombing-brothers-secretly-filmed-countrys-top-nuclear/story?id=37901266

Killing innocents is bad enough, bless their souls but this could have been a whole other mess.

They want WMDs; they want some powerful weapon that can't be detected.

In fact, it sounds like they went that route some in that the 2 terrorists had a glove on one hand rolling those carts; something like that.

http://www.voanews.com/media/video/belgium-counterterror-struggles-underscore-long-simmering-concerns/3253846.html

Belgium’s Counterterror Struggles Underscore Long-Simmering Concerns

[JBiz]

Another incident the welcome migrants placard brigade should feel responsible for. Literally the only reason that story isn't about the London Underground is that we didn't have a Labour government in at the time, trying to out-do Merkel in who can be Europe's most recklessly charitable.

I wonder where the families of those 3 men are? Did they flee them whilst they were fleeing conflict? Or are they part of the (in my opinion majority) group who simply came for a better pay day and as such have little gratitude, loyalty and respect for the country they ended up in.

Its somewhere between sickening and grimly amusing that they migrated to Germany because its good, and then assaulted on the subway the very people who've spent their whole lives making it good.

Skh, what do you base your view, that those leaving Syria towards Europe are a "majority" economic refugees?

These terrorists have been hiding behind normal folk from well before 911.

I can't believe how ignorant you are of the actual humanitarian crisis going on. 12m people have been displaced. Not all have headed towards Europe, but to pass off these people as a "silent army" is sickening.

The MAJORITY of these people had good jobs, money, houses, families etc well before.

[ABBEY]

Have you taken any in to your home or are you just making the noise of compassion but doing nothing about it .?

And ultra blue you do realise this is a Blackburn rovers message board and not a mouthpiece for your self.

Have you ever discussed rovers or even anything in football terms ?

[ultrablue]

Mods will let me know if there is any requirement like that Abbey. Until then, stay on topic.

[MCMC1875]

I know this comes across as insulting but I'm certain Abbey in particular is reflecting the "black and white" outlook of newspapers like the Sun. Really that's no different to a lot of people considering the circulation figures and most people would be strongly in favor of killing/life imprisoning terrorists. I agree with "shoot on sight" policies (and wouldn't object to the death penalty in cases of blatant guilt) but the "hang them all" talk is just typical Sun "frothing at the mouth" reaction. As I've said before how can you ever fully defeat these people and as mentioned the Police/agents seem to do an excellent job of discovering/preventing terroristic plots.

Here's an article about hysterical reactions to terrorism while certainly not ignoring its a serious issue.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/24/scariest-brussels-reactoin-paranoid-politicians-isis-atrocity-belgium

There's virtually no chance of being involved in a terrorist attack though I do have concerns about eventual nuclear terrorism. I can't remember how much attention I paid to the media as a kid but there are certain stories I remember. Obviously the Diana car crash was impossible to ignore considering the ludicrous level of coverage (I wasn't as cold and cynical then but I remember questioning the amount of coverage) and I was reminded of something by the 20th anniversary of the Dunblane shootings. I was old enough to understand what had happened and remember doors being secured (at my Primary School) and there was probably an intercom installed at the main entrance.

Really it wouldn't have made the slightest bit of difference. It would have been easy for someone to get onto the playground/field which really wasn't anymore secure at all. I knew that but I also knew what happened wasn't normal and that it was exceptionally unlikely to happen at my Primary school. Obviously that wasn't Islamic terrorism and was the reaction of one deranged person. Really nothing felt different at all (and it shouldn't have) but its one of my earliest memories of noticing fearful reactions to a horrendous act.

People feel like they have to do something of course (naturally since Hamilton killed himself and couldn't be punished most of the reaction was focused on banning handguns) and I certainly see retaking the ISIS "state" as achievable. Getting rid of people wanting to kill themselves...well that's another matter.

Admittedly I wouldn't go to parts of the Middle East (certainly not Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, etc) though that's also because there's nothing in places like China/India that particularly interests me. I've got no interest in temples (like on that Pune trip some people wasted their time on) or other ancient monuments and prefer western society. That's not because I think all people in the Middle East/Asia are terrorists I'm just fully westernised. Some reactions are "over the top" though. My Mum didn't want to go to Turkey on holiday due to the Turkish border (presumably my Sister suggested it though I'm not sure how close it would have been to that border) and will go to Gran Canaria instead. First time she's had a passport actually...very parochial . I'm not going with them because I've got limited interest in sitting on a beach and don't like stifling hot weather. New York is the next place I'm going abroad for sure.

Schools today look like prison camps to me with their 7ft steel fences and locked gates/doors. I suppose children today don't know any different. In my time there was a 3ft fence and anyone could walk in, the only high fences were between the playgrounds and neighbouring houses. Maybe it is a more dangerous country now but I preferred the previous era. I know, I've got rose tinted glasses on.

[ABBEY]

Mods will let me know if there is any requirement like that Abbey. Until then, stay on topic.

Topic ?

I was once threatened with a ban for not posting about rovers stuff .

[ultrablue]

??? In this part of the forum???

[ABBEY]

No the reason this story is not about the London Underground is because any of the hundreds of similar assaults that happen every year on the tube would not be considered 'newsworthy', unless there were some wider political point to be exploited.

"Drunk idiot in London roughs up old man, gets fined." is not a national story, but "Migrant attacks pensioner in Munich, walks free" - now that sells.

What about the migrants in Hamburg , Berlin , Düsseldorf & Stuttgart on New Year's Eve was that just about headlines ?

??? In this part of the forum???

Yes .. (and I didn't post enough in the rovers section .

[VinjayV4]

Schools today look like prison camps to me with their 7ft steel fences and locked gates/doors. I suppose children today don't know any different. In my time there was a 3ft fence and anyone could walk in, the only high fences were between the playgrounds and neighbouring houses. Maybe it is a more dangerous country now but I preferred the previous era. I know, I've got rose tinted glasses on.

Yes my old primary school looks far more secure now with fences, etc. That still wouldn't make any difference in the remote event a maniac turns up at the gates when its hometime. Really securing the schools more was just about "being seen to be doing something" rather than genuine prevention. I'm sure it will happen again (at a school) one of the Dunblane parents has predicted it too and perhaps other ones have as well. I think the figures of 3 mass shootings (in last 30 years and I'm counting double figures) are quite surprisingly low actually because there are a lot of awful people around. No idea how easy it is to get a gun but there are some extremely deprived areas with high crime levels. I'm not sure how that works exactly what would you do walk around and see who looks like a dangerous criminal? Not to mention undercover cops probably roaming those areas.

Obviously the Dunblane shootings are most remembered and when you type in Dunblane on google that's what comes up first. Its become a byword for mass shootings like Hillsborough has become a byword for a different reason. I believe Dunblane is a reasonably affluent area so its got a good reputation for those who know one incident isn't defining. I think Sheffield Wednesday were criticised for not erecting a memorial until several years later but they probably hate being associated with the whole thing. Hillsborough is a famous venue and deserves to be known more for that. I certainly wouldn't want Ewood to become synonymous with tragedy...and I mean deaths/injuries not the last few years with Venkys. Though certainly that's been a different kind of tragedy!

I rarely see children on the streets anymore certainly nowhere near the levels when I was their age. Obviously I'm a bit too old to be "playing out" now but can see how much quieter it is. Too busy on their various ipads, phones, etc I sound like an old man lol. Kids living near me had nintendo, megadrive and later on playstations (I had consoles as well) but didn't spend all day, every day on them. Even when I got cable in 1997 didn't spend all my time indoors. Now I spend far too much time on the internet and couldn't deal without it. I've coped without smartphones though I probably will purchase one eventually.

[JBiz]

Have you taken any in to your home or are you just making the noise of compassion but doing nothing about it .?

?

What part of "stay away from personal stuff" is hard to understand? What I've done matters little, if you can't reply to my content. Don't bother.

I've helped raise money through work for charity, and donated quite a bit, mainly to children's charities if you must know. Could always do more but the that's not the point.

The point is- this fear of a those migrants stirred up by the way the press highlights the parts that sell papers, and ignores facts about the sheer scale of displacement.

[ABBEY]

So let's get this right , you can comment on who/what you want but I can't comment on your stuff ?

I didn't ask about children's charity , I asked if you had taken anyone in .

What part of fear did the press stir up about the ones in court this week plotting to shoot soldiers ?

[JBiz]

No I'm saying reply to what I post for a change as opposed to going on about what I've done.

I'm still waiting for you to add weight to your claims about anyone who disagrees with you is a terrorist sympathiser, and you still haven't answered my question about rich business interests in selling papers, bombs, guns or just plain old hatred.

[T J Hooker]

Schools today look like prison camps to me with their 7ft steel fences and locked gates/doors. I suppose children today don't know any different. In my time there was a 3ft fence and anyone could walk in, the only high fences were between the playgrounds and neighbouring houses. Maybe it is a more dangerous country now but I preferred the previous era. I know, I've got rose tinted glasses on.

Same when i was at primary school, many a day we had mongos mushy picking right in front of the class windows whilst we where working,

I also think its true what Vinjay says though, the schools may 'appear' far more secure with all that fencing, but in reality any determined loony could still get in in seconds if they really wanted to, and what really scares me is that the fences could actually make it impossible fo r children and others to escape and flee the school grounds if something unthinkable like the dunblane massacre happened again.