[Archived] Extra ! Extra ! Read All About It !

[yoda]

Its a simple question chaps?

They are legal

[Biddy]

I wasn't asked, but now you ask, NO they're not morally wrong, but Panama off shore tax dodging is morally wrong because David Cameron said so and I agree with him, do you agree with him Biddy?

Come on GAV, you can do better than that:-

What about the money from ISA's ?

Do you pay into a pension plan or an ISA?

You'll be pleased to know, I've just bought the Kindle version of Dennis Skinners book as I had £4 credit that was about to expire.

[Gav]

You'll be pleased to know, I've just bought the Kindle version of Denis Skinners book as I had £4 credit that was about to expire.

I've given that book to my dad who refuses to read it, I'm sure he's a closet Tory but has never admitted who he votes for, not even to my mum

[Biddy]

I've given that book to my dad who refuses to read it, I'm sure he's a closet Tory but has never admitted who he votes for, not even to my mum

I'm actually interested to read what he's done for my area in the past as, as far as I can see, he's pretty much retired to life in London and the commons these days as he's never here.

[Gav]

I'm actually interested to read what he's done for my area in the past as, as far as I can see, he's pretty much retired to life in London and the commons these days as he's never here.

A very principled man, living off past exploits maybe, but I firmly believe if we had more Dennis Skinners, parliament would be a better place.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Todays interesting fact - the Department of Work and Pensions employ 3,250 people to investigate welfare fraud, while only 300 people specialise in tax evasion by the rich.

While we're on the subject, who said in an interview in 2008 ? - - " The vast majority of ( the City's activities ) are extremely healthy for the world's financial systems. My father was a fourth-or fifth- generation stockbroker so maybe this is inculcated from an early age, but I do believe it."

[Rover-the-Top]

Todays interesting fact - the Department of Work and Pensions employ 3,250 people to investigate welfare fraud, while only 300 people specialise in tax evasion by the rich.

How many people claim benefits and how many are "rich"?

[jim mk2]

Todays interesting fact - the Department of Work and Pensions employ 3,250 people to investigate welfare fraud, while only 300 people specialise in tax evasion by the rich.

While we're on the subject, who said in an interview in 2008 ? - - " The vast majority of ( the City's activities ) are extremely healthy for the world's financial systems. My father was a fourth-or fifth- generation stockbroker so maybe this is inculcated from an early age, but I do believe it."

Benefits fraud is estimated to cost the country circa £4bn pa while tax evasion cost £16bn (most recent figures).

This is where you question the motives of government and the influence of Conservative party donors and sponsors

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Benefits fraud is estimated to cost the country circa £4bn pa while tax evasion cost £16bn (most recent figures).

This is where you question the motives of government and the influence of Conservative party donors and sponsors

I agree Jim, the quote was from David Cameron by the way.

[K-Hod]

Benefits fraud is estimated to cost the country circa £4bn pa while tax evasion cost £16bn (most recent figures).

This is where you question the motives of government and the influence of Conservative party donors and sponsors

But then so many people fell for the bullstein (credit Yoda for that one) blaming 'dole dossers', completely ignoring the above. It's enough to make one blue in the face it really is.

[Al]

Benefits fraud is estimated to cost the country circa £4bn pa while tax evasion cost £16bn (most recent figures).

This is where you question the motives of government and the influence of Conservative party donors and sponsors

At least the people who evade tax (or do you mean legally avoid) earn their money whilst the dole dossers just sponge on the rest of us.

[Rover-the-Top]

There's lies, damned lies and statistics.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/ampp3d/tax-evasion-benefit-cheats-graphs-5179901

The article is a year old, but I expect the gist is still relevant.

3,315 employed to investigate benefit fraud.

30,000 working on enforcement and compliance, making sure people pay their taxes. Included in that is a unit of 300 which concentrate specifically on people earning at least £150,000 pa or have wealth between £2.5m and £20m, which is about 300,000 people.

[Mike E]

Possible way to stop 'sponging'?

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/13/should-we-scrap-benefits-and-pay-everyone-100-a-week-whether-they-work-or-not?CMP=fb_gu

[K-Hod]

Possible way to stop 'sponging'?

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/13/should-we-scrap-benefits-and-pay-everyone-100-a-week-whether-they-work-or-not?CMP=fb_gu

Ha, not for me! That would lead to a gigantic loss of motivation/disrguntlement.....

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

There's lies, damned lies and statistics.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/ampp3d/tax-evasion-benefit-cheats-graphs-5179901

The article is a year old, but I expect the gist is still relevant.

3,315 employed to investigate benefit fraud.

30,000 working on enforcement and compliance, making sure people pay their taxes. Included in that is a unit of 300 which concentrate specifically on people earning at least £150,000 pa or have wealth between £2.5m and £20m, which is about 300,000 people.

I would have thought the vast majority of the 30,000 will be working on the mundane day to day tax affairs like mine. I've been on PAYE all my life and paid every penny I was expected to pay without whinging about it. A civilised society has to be paid for. You won't always be young and fit.

[Steve Moss]

They are legal

Tax avoidance is legal also.

ISA's are legal, and allow one to avoid tax. Ergo, those who pay into an ISA are tax avoiders.

To be clear, I think ISA's etc, are both legal and not immoral.

But the issue is not whether one is immoral for putting into an ISA or otherwise tax avoiding. If it is not illegal, it's fine. Wanting to legally keep more of one's money is not immoral. The issue is a political class (across all parties) who write rules allowing tax avoidance. If you want to cast stones, throw them at the politicians who enable tax avoidance, not those who are simply trying to keep the money they earned.

[JBiz]

At least the people who evade tax (or do you mean legally avoid) earn their money whilst the dole dossers just sponge on the rest of us.

There are certainly some people who benefit from the system in such a way to be described "dole dossers". The child benefit (as an example) is something that's ended up with people creating children to avoid work!

However, there are certainly many who require and deserve the support of the state. Some people genuinely cannot work - and those are sufffering because the country needs to save money.

The cost of this is insignificant when compared to the absolute billions lost in evaded or unpaid tax. For instance, the money Amazon in the U.K. and therefore its shareholders make is all from people who pay uk tax from their earnings and VAT on purchases. If Amazon are legitimately avoiding the tax on this, whether it's legal or not - it's not fair and needs to change. This isn't jealousy.

This isn't a clever businessman either, "earning his money" these are loop holes defrauding the country.

Paul's posts sums up a lot for me, it's not about political sway or who you "like". When necessary systems are underfunded or closed we suffer. Let's face it, Chorley A&E is hardly an isolated case.

[Steve Moss]

The cost of this is insignificant when compared to the absolute billions lost in evaded or unpaid tax. For instance, the money Amazon in the U.K. and therefore its shareholders make is all from people who pay uk tax from their earnings and VAT on purchases. If Amazon are legitimately avoiding the tax on this, whether it's legal or not - it's not fair and needs to change. This isn't jealousy.

A CEO's responsibility is to preserve the company and legally maximize the dividends paid to his shareholders. A "loophole" is created when rules written by politicians allow an entity to avoid tax. Avoiding taxes makes a company more profitable.

So when a CEO takes advantage of a loophole to maximize profits, he's doing his job. If you don't like that, then look to the politicians who created the loophole.

[Mike E]

Ha, not for me! That would lead to a gigantic loss of motivation/disrguntlement.....

Interesting idea though. The idea that only luxuries (rather than survival) demand work.

[Stuart]

Possible way to stop 'sponging'?

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/13/should-we-scrap-benefits-and-pay-everyone-100-a-week-whether-they-work-or-not?CMP=fb_gu

I've read about this previously. It's a really interesting idea but I can't help but think that greedy corporations would cash in by putting prices up to take into account this baseline. Those who already have a decent income would suddenly have £1600 - £2000 per month more and could afford the increased prices.

[JBiz]

A CEO's responsibility is to preserve the company and legally maximize the dividends paid to his shareholders. A "loophole" is created when rules written by politicians allow an entity to avoid tax. Avoiding taxes makes a company more profitable.

So when a CEO takes advantage of a loophole to maximize profits, he's doing his job. If you don't like that, then look to the politicians who created the loophole.

That's the point really, these things should be shut down. Not necessary services!

[Biddy]

There are certainly some people who benefit from the system in such a way to be described "dole dossers". The child benefit (as an example) is something that's ended up with people creating children to avoid work!

However, there are certainly many who require and deserve the support of the state. Some people genuinely cannot work - and those are sufffering because the country needs to save money.

The cost of this is insignificant when compared to the absolute billions lost in evaded or unpaid tax. For instance, the money Amazon in the U.K. and therefore its shareholders make is all from people who pay uk tax from their earnings and VAT on purchases. If Amazon are legitimately avoiding the tax on this, whether it's legal or not - it's not fair and needs to change. This isn't jealousy.

This isn't a clever businessman either, "earning his money" these are loop holes defrauding the country.

Paul's posts sums up a lot for me, it's not about political sway or who you "like". When necessary systems are underfunded or closed we suffer. Let's face it, Chorley A&E is hardly an isolated case.

In addition to what Steve Moss says about Amazon, if they didn't find the most efficient way to run the business, prices would go up. Consumers would then not buy the product. The Government then gets far less in VAT. Less income to the company means job losses which means less income goes to the government through PAYE and NI. Along with less income, they would have to pay out more in benefits.

It is a fine balancing act, which is probably why many governments have never closed the loopholes.

[jim mk2]

Businesses can be run efficiently and profitably without them evading taxes. And less income does not necessarily lead to job losses. There's no justification for the likes of Amazon not paying taxes. Thankfully, Brussels is leading the way with plans for increasing corporate transparency - another reason for staying in the EU.

[yoda]

But then so many people fell for the bullstein (credit Yoda for that one) blaming 'dole dossers', completely ignoring the above. It's enough to make one blue in the face it really is.

What did I do ?

[K-Hod]

What did I do ?

Haha, sorry I was giving you credit for use of the word 'bullstein' over the other more common word containing 'bull'!