The Relegation Thread

[Amo]

Coyley has done well with an assortment of loanees,freebies and injury-prones.

We're second from bottom.

I guess we could be further adrift but eh, he's hardly breaking expectations.

Edited November 1, 2016 by Amarillo

[1arC]

Exactly this. Lets suppose Coyle manages to deliver survival this season with a couple of games to spare. Highly unlikely in my opinion but you can never say never, especially in this division. What steps would the owners, directors and club take to ensure next season wasn't just a repeat of this season or worse?

Would they give the manager a proper budget to go out and strengthen in June rather than running around picking up loans in late August? Would they allow quality additions to the squad? Would they plug gaps at boardroom level or delegate transfer authority to the UK? Would they fight off interest in what few decent players we have left? Would they make serious offers to try and sign the likes of Hoban and Emnes permanently?

No. They wouldn't.

On the flip side if we were relegated with 5 games to spare what steps would they take to try and ensure an immediate return? Would they appoint a good League One manager like Bolton did last summer? Would they cherry pick the best League One players early doors to assemble a promotion capable squad for next season?

No. They wouldn't.

Bad news all round really.

If we do get the likely relegation, then we are likely to get some weasley words like, we will bounce back. No doubt the likes of Southampton, Norwich and Leicester will be used as examples of teams that fell to the level and are now in the premier league. It honestly would amaze me if we aren't in the fourth tier for the firs time in our history, if Venky's are still here in 3-4 years.

[Stuart]

We're second from bottom.

I guess we could be further adrift but eh, he's hardly breaking expectations.

He's pretty much exactly where we thought we would be when we signed him.

Now, where would we have expected to be with Warnock in charge? With poorer, lower cost players I'd say comfortably mid table in reach of the play-off places.

[broadsword]

He's pretty much exactly where we thought we would be when we signed him.

Now, where would we have expected to be with Warnock in charge? With poorer, lower cost players I'd say comfortably mid table in reach of the play-off places.

there comes a point at which "stupidity" as a rationale for the behaviour of others becomes stretched way beyond credibility.

[DE.]

He's pretty much exactly where we thought we would be when we signed him.

Now, where would we have expected to be with Warnock in charge? With poorer, lower cost players I'd say comfortably mid table in reach of the play-off places.

I think we'd be comfortably mid-table, we wouldn't have thrown away points at home against the likes of Burton, Fulham, Ipswich or Wolves.

You can see there's enough talent in this squad to stay in the division, but our organisation and fitness is such a severe handicap that I'd be shocked if we are able to overcome it by the end of the season. We're basically back in the same position we were under GB in his final few months, but with an even weaker defensive shape. GB could grind out results where required, but Coyle's persistence with a rigid 4-4-2, even in the closing stages of games when we need to shore up the defence, leaves us extremely vulnerable.

[Stuart]

there comes a point at which "stupidity" as a rationale for the behaviour of others becomes stretched way beyond credibility.

Along with naivety, confusion, badly-advised, etc...

[Jock]

Along with naivety, confusion, badly-advised, etc...

The Judicial system doesn't recognise stupidity as a form of defence. How many times are the Rao's going to flaut the rules?

[rigger]

He's pretty much exactly where we thought we would be when we signed him.

Now, where would we have expected to be with Warnock in charge? With poorer, lower cost players I'd say comfortably mid table in reach of the play-off places.

What like Cardiff?

[Stuart]

What like Cardiff?

Is this a joke post? 7 points from 4 games extrapolated over the 15 league matches Coyle has played this season is 26 points and 5th in the table.

Please, go on...

[Amo]

Warnock win percentage 50.00%

Coyle win percentage 27.78%

Errrrrr...

[Rover_Shaun]

Warnock out

[47er]

If we do get the likely relegation, then we are likely to get some weasley words like, we will bounce back. No doubt the likes of Southampton, Norwich and Leicester will be used as examples of teams that fell to the level and are now in the premier league. It honestly would amaze me if we aren't in the fourth tier for the firs time in our history, if Venky's are still here in 3-4 years.

We have to take one step back to take two forwards?

[Waggy76]

If we do get the likely relegation, then we are likely to get some weasley words like, we will bounce back. No doubt the likes of Southampton, Norwich and Leicester will be used as examples of teams that fell to the level and are now in the premier league. It honestly would amaze me if we aren't in the fourth tier for the firs time in our history, if Venky's are still here in 3-4 years.

As sure as night follows day !

[Stuart]

How long did it take Blackpool?

Don't see much difference in our circumstances.

[tomphil]

For me the only reason the downward spiral had a break was the embargo which they welcomed as it gave them the excuse not to spend but it also meant things had to be left alone for a bit so the meddling eased up. The partners were happy because they could concentrate on making their % from moving people out and paying people off.

Half the reason GB did ok for a season or two was because they had to leave it alone for a bit imo. The minute we came out of that the bollux began again immediately. So maybe rather than holding us back as they and others liked to say it may well have stopped us being another 2 years further down the ladder. We would be with Blackpool now if it wasn't for that period I reckon.

[rigger]

Is this a joke post? 7 points from 4 games extrapolated over the 15 league matches Coyle has played this season is 26 points and 5th in the table.

Please, go on...

I am not bigging up Coyle, I was just saying that Warnock doesn't guarantee mid-table, no manager can. Over the same four games you mention, Cardiff are only two points better off than we are. But statistics do not always reflect real life.

Edited November 1, 2016 by rigger

[Stuart]

For me the only reason the downward spiral had a break was the embargo which they welcomed as it gave them the excuse not to spend but it also meant things had to be left alone for a bit so the meddling eased up. The partners were happy because they could concentrate on making their % from moving people out and paying people off.

Half the reason GB did ok for a season or two was because they had to leave it alone for a bit imo. The minute we came out of that the bollux began again immediately. So maybe rather than holding us back as they and others liked to say it may well have stopped us being another 2 years further down the ladder. We would be with Blackpool now if it wasn't for that period I reckon.

It was also largely because all of those people making a mess of the boardroom left.

I am not bigging up Coyle, I was just saying that Warnock doesn't guarantee mid-table, over the same four games you mention, Cardiff are only two points better off than we are.

Warnock would have had us (and Cardiff) mid table if he had been at either club from the start of the season. Cardiff's poor start and league position is no reflection on Warnock at all.

Look at Warnock's record and look at Coyle's over the same period. No contest.

Really not sure what point you are trying to make. You don't like Warnock?

[rigger]

It was also largely because all of those people making a mess of the boardroom left.

Warnock would have had us (and Cardiff) mid table if he had been at either club from the start of the season. Cardiff's poor start and league position is no reflection on Warnock at all.

Look at Warnock's record and look at Coyle's over the same period. No contest.

Really not sure what point you are trying to make. You don't like Warnock?

The points you are making are your opinion and are not provable. The point I am stating is that :- No specific appointment as manager can guarantee where you are going to finish. That is a fact!

[Leonard Venkhater]

It was also largely because all of those people making a mess of the boardroom left.

Warnock would have had us (and Cardiff) mid table if he had been at either club from the start of the season. Cardiff's poor start and league position is no reflection on Warnock at all.

Look at Warnock's record and look at Coyle's over the same period. No contest.

Really not sure what point you are trying to make. You don't like Warnock?

Before the season I drew a conclusion and several months later I see no reason to change my mind.

Appointing Coyle= Certain Relegation

[rigger]

Before the season I drew a conclusion and several months later I see no reason to change my mind.

Appointing Coyle= Certain Relegation

I would edit the statement to read

Venkys as owners = Certain Relegation

[Stuart]

The points you are making are your opinion and are not provable. The point I am stating is that :- No specific appointment as manager can guarantee where you are going to finish. That is a fact!

Certain managers guarantee a certain standard, in the sense that they have a high percentage. Obviously nobody gets 100% but 70% is a damned good number. Managers like Allardyce, Warnock, Bruce, McCarthy 'guarantee' certain things.

Managers like Coyle effectively guarantee failure. We all saw it coming and then when it happens people bang on about nothing being certain or the power of hindsight.

My first post about this was that I would expect Warnock to have had us midtable after 15 games. You brought up Cardiff (rather bizarrely). Yet the stats back my expectation, rather than your ill-judged pop about where Warnock had Cardiff after 4 games. There's no shame in being wrong so put away the spade.

[Leonard Venkhater]

I would edit the statement to read

Venkys as owners = Certain Relegation

Coyle is a key part of their strategy, so no contradiction there.

[rigger]

Certain managers guarantee a certain standard, in the sense that they have a high percentage. Obviously nobody gets 100% but 70% is a damned good number. Managers like Allardyce, Warnock, Bruce, McCarthy 'guarantee' certain things.

Managers like Coyle effectively guarantee failure. We all saw it coming and then when it happens people bang on about nothing being certain or the power of hindsight.

My first post about this was that I would expect Warnock to have had us midtable after 15 games. You brought up Cardiff (rather bizarrely). Yet the stats back my expectation, rather than your ill-judged pop about where Warnock had Cardiff after 4 games. There's no shame in being wrong so put away the spade.

I brought up Cardiff in answer to a post about Warnock. Because that is the club where he now is, I don't see it as bizarre. We are never going to agree on this point, so you stick to your stats, and I will stick with facts. I would also say that a better point is that there is no shame in having a differing opinion. P.S. I am not a gardener

[JHRover]

For me the only reason the downward spiral had a break was the embargo which they welcomed as it gave them the excuse not to spend but it also meant things had to be left alone for a bit so the meddling eased up. The partners were happy because they could concentrate on making their % from moving people out and paying people off.

Half the reason GB did ok for a season or two was because they had to leave it alone for a bit imo. The minute we came out of that the bollux began again immediately. So maybe rather than holding us back as they and others liked to say it may well have stopped us being another 2 years further down the ladder. We would be with Blackpool now if it wasn't for that period I reckon.

Probably right. The only period of stability/sanity we've had in 6 years of them being here were the 2 full seasons under Bowyer's management. He deserves great credit for that in tough circumstances that no other manager has been able to hack. Kean, Berg, Appleton and Coyle have been disasters for a variety of reasons, some of their own doing, some of the clubs/owners. Lambert saw through them and had both the money, reputation and nous to get out of his own accord before things turned sour.

Season one we nearly went down, season two we did go down, season three we very nearly went down, seasons four and five we looked briefly upwards, season six we were back fighting relegation, season seven we're fighting relegation and will probably go down again. Seasons four and five clearly the odd ones out. It just so happens they were the ones where Bowyer had a full season and where transfer activity was dictated by the looming embargo. Bowyer was allowed to wheel and deal for a while because everyone knew the embargo was coming and steps had to be taken to try and comply with that and satisfy the league. They went with his signings with the lure of major profits down the line which is precisely what they've had out of it. I know for a fact that Bowyer was desperate to get the embargo lifted in the summer of 2015 so he could strengthen the squad and they refused to do it, then lo and behold a few months later Bowyer is on the scrapheap, Lambert is in the house, mystery man Pasha's lurking in the background and the embargo gets lifted.

Its been painted as Venkys getting ambitious, lifting the embargo and then changing their minds on funding and Lambert walking. Perhaps its time we start considering alternative theories which include the sudden ability to lift the embargo mid season, the question of why this wasn't done sooner, the question of why Bowyer wasn't given the opportunity to work without the embargo after he had made them millions from players, the question of why/where/when Pasha came from, the question of what Lambert was promised and by whom.

Lots more to this than meets the eye.

Perhaps the embargo was a reason why we saw such stability. Ironic that it was only in this period that the raft of successful signings came through and have gone on to made them/someone a hell of a lot of money in contrast to transfer dealings before and after.

[Rover_Shaun]

I would edit the statement to read

Venkys as owners = Certain Relegation

But they've certainly speeded up relegation with their appointment of the failed idiot

Edited November 2, 2016 by Rover_Shaun