Rovers' mouth piece - the LT

[JBiz]

12 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

But we rarely had a full stadium in 1994/1995, ergo an average crowd of 25,000, actually lower than the relegation season.

Then still 20,000 in the second tier, very respectable, then again averages higher than title winning support once back up in 2001.

Thats not a question of ‘rounding’ up decreasing numbers, but just competely wrong as our crowds actually INCREASED in the PL between 1998 and 2003 to levels higher than 1995.

Now what is correct is that Venky’s have lost us 10,000 ST holders. And for a bit of historical context, crowds also dropped substantially between Souness’ later period from about 2003 until the ‘Taking Back Ewood’ campaign of cheap STs in 2009 - quite apt considering the discussions re crowds, pricing etc going on currently.

I’m boring myself now but the facts are facts and I’m very protective of our reputation when it comes to this stuff and articles like that just don’t help.

In 95- as in the year not season, before and after the title win - we had full stadiums for big games. Upon relegation - we didn’t. There’s nothing statistical about it. No matter how much you try and delve into it this article and criticise it, the point remains - had we built on that success, we would never have dropped a league ergo a lot of fans.

I can’t believe we are treating this like it’s straigjt out a double page broadsheet spread. It’s a “fan’s view” opinion piece in a local rag that makes more from online adverts!

Just now, K-Hod said:

It's not an opinion that his facts are wrong though mate? Fact checking wouldn't even take him a minute on the internet......

I’m sure if it was intended as a fulll break down of the rationale, variables and reasoning of our ever changing fan base - he probably would’ve used specific statistics and depth.

Since it’s quite obviously not that, I repeat; I’ve no idea what you’re all getting so aggy about.

 

 

[47er]

10 minutes ago, Biz said:

 

I’m sure if it was intended as a fulll break down of the rationale, variables and reasoning of our ever changing fan base - he probably would’ve used specific statistics and depth.

Since it’s quite obviously not that, I repeat; I’ve no idea what you’re all getting so aggy about.

 

 

Similarly we have no idea what you're on about either and why you would strive so hard to uphold such a ridiculous premise.

Not that its the first time or anything! 

[JHRover]

According to the Telegraph we've got three 'heavyweights' coming up this week. Not the language I'd use to describe second tier fixtures at West Brom and Swansea but hey ho.

Also seems we're coming up against 'promotion chasers' Leeds tomorrow, a side that sit a massive 5 points above us in the table.

[tomphil]

I don't actually mind the underdog tag at the min if those sides look at us as a club just out of league 1 after years of turmoil and a potential easy three points, these players respond better to that. We went to a few places early last season with a big time attitude and came unstuck so hopefully these lot do underestimate us.

Just don't want Tony putting the fear of god into them and us starting like startled rabbits in the headlights as that happens too often under his stewardship although to be fair his methods saw us through it last season but too risky in this league to sit off every week for first 20 mins imo.

[Bigdoggsteel]

17 minutes ago, JHRover said:

According to the Telegraph we've got three 'heavyweights' coming up this week. Not the language I'd use to describe second tier fixtures at West Brom and Swansea but hey ho.

Also seems we're coming up against 'promotion chasers' Leeds tomorrow, a side that sit a massive 5 points above us in the table.

Ah, come on now. They are heavyweights when it comes to the Championship, look at their squads and budgets. 

Leeds are most definitely promotion chasers, as are we  

[JHRover]

10 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Ah, come on now. They are heavyweights when it comes to the Championship, look at their squads and budgets. 

Leeds are most definitely promotion chasers, as are we  

So that's Leeds, WBA, Swansea, along with Stoke, Forest, Derby, Villa, Middlesbrough, Sheffield Wed who are all 'heavyweights' because they've all spent money, then also Sheffield United because they're top of the league, and Brentford because they've a decent side and are tipped to do well, and Norwich because they get quite a few on home games, and Bristol City because Mowbray was impressed that they had a 'full house' against us.

Crikey. That's a lot of 'heavyweights'.

[Bigdoggsteel]

7 minutes ago, JHRover said:

So that's Leeds, WBA, Swansea, along with Stoke, Forest, Derby, Villa, Middlesbrough, Sheffield Wed who are all 'heavyweights' because they've all spent money, then also Sheffield United because they're top of the league, and Brentford because they've a decent side and are tipped to do well, and Norwich because they get quite a few on home games, and Bristol City because Mowbray was impressed that they had a 'full house' against us.

Crikey. That's a lot of 'heavyweights'.

Are you ok this morning? When were Brentford , Norwich or Bristol referred to as heavyweights? Anyway, it's just a word, I wouldn't look too much into it  

[JHRover]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Are you ok this morning? When were Brentford , Norwich or Bristol referred to as heavyweights? Anyway, it's just a word, I wouldn't look too much into it  

Fine thanks  I just don't appreciate our local media playing the 'underdog' game with Rovers by portraying us as some plucky little club up against the titans of the Championship. Never thought I'd see the day Swansea City were referred to as a heavyweight. I don't care how much cash they get from Sky Sports, they aren't, and never will be 'heavyweights' in comparison to Rovers.

As I've explained above if Swansea are heavyweights then presumably so are 12+ other clubs in this league. Where does that stop?

Mowbray himself said he wished we could be like Bristol City and have a full house (even though they don't).

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, JHRover said:

Fine thanks  I just don't appreciate our local media playing the 'underdog' game with Rovers by portraying us as some plucky little club up against the titans of the Championship. Never thought I'd see the day Swansea City were referred to as a heavyweight. I don't care how much cash they get from Sky Sports, they aren't, and never will be 'heavyweights' in comparison to Rovers.

As I've explained above if Swansea are heavyweights then presumably so are 12+ other clubs in this league. Where does that stop?

Mowbray himself said he wished we could be like Bristol City and have a full house (even though they don't).

I would prefer us to be portrayed that way. In fairness we were in League 1 last year. I still think on our day we can beat any of them 

The full house comments on Bristol are a slightly different thing 

[blueboy3333]

3 hours ago, Biz said:

I’m not really bothered if people disagree it’s merely an opinion, turning this into “you wouldn’t” argument is hardly surprising when half of my point is many here simply cannot accept alternative opinions- some more vociferously than others judging by this thread.

Whilst a few of you enjoy finding something to froth at the mouth about, I’d prefer my reactions with a hint of tranquility. 

I mean - why on earth would I be utterly bemused at a rounded up statistic used to point out we went from full stadiums in 95 to less than 20k in the first season of the championship?

Especially considering the article is “light hearted” referencing scientists “regenerating” fantastic players of old to bring some fans from those era’s back!

It’s hardly a Henry Winter 5000 word piece on the changing demographics and fan base, is it? It’s not intended to be either - I’m sure you (BB) and other know this well - but what is life without someone or something to cathartically hate and moan about eh!

You're turning into Donald Trump. Flouting lies and half-truths and then taking umbrage (and the moral high ground) when someone disagrees. 

Nobody is 'frothing', just pointing out that the debate about attendances (started by ignorant comments from the club may I add) is not helped when the resident Pravda work-experience guy makes up figures and prattles on about 'regenerating' Duff and Shearer and offering 'free tickets' as the only options the club has left to attract the missing 5 or 6k (or 20k if you sail on the good ship SS Hack). I may have just frothed?

It isn't a 'light-hearted' article anyway,  it's dismissing serious concerns about the policy at Rovers of putting up prices and then MOANING that Season-Ticket sales and crowds in general aren't where they want them, instead of actually looking for the reasons and offering solutions. It also doesn't help that Sharpe states in the LT as fact (and parroting Waggott's ignorance) that slashing prices isn't the answer. In my experience of watching Rovers in the last 10-15 years slashing prices is always the answer. That discussion obviously has to be set at against the backdrop of Rovers financial commitments (how much can they realistically 'slash' off a ST and how many more fans would it tempt back) but it is a discussion worth having. The club at the moment are doing the square root of nowt to attract new or old fans as far as I can see, instead just wearily lamenting the blocks of empty seats and wondering why it can't be like 'Oxford' every week. 

At this rate they'll need to get their scientists regenerating fans. The average age in the JWU is approaching 100 and the rest of the ground 50. I'm being 'light-hearted' there but also making a serious point. It's something Rovers seriously need to look at.  

Obviously you're too 'tranquil' to care. 

 

 

 

Edited October 19, 2018 by blueboy3333
speeling misstek

[JBiz]

7 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

You're turning into Donald Trump. Flouting lies and half-truths and then taking umbrage (and the moral high ground) when someone disagrees. 

Nobody is 'frothing', just pointing out that the debate about attendances (started by ignorant comments from the club may I add) is not helped when the resident Pravda work-experience guy makes up figures and prattles on about 'regenerating' Duff and Shearer and offering 'free tickets' as the only options the club has left to attract the missing 5 or 6k (or 20k if you sail on the good ship SS Hack). I may have just frothed?

It isn't a 'light-hearted' article anyway,  it's dismissing serious concerns about the policy at Rovers of putting up prices and then MOANING that Season-Ticket sales and crowds in general aren't where they want them, instead of actually looking for the reasons and offering solutions. It also doesn't help that Sharpe states in the LT as fact (and parroting Waggott's ignorance) that slashing prices isn't the answer. In my experience of watching Rovers in the last 10-15 years slashing prices is always the answer. That discussion obviously has to be set at against the backdrop of Rovers financial commitments (how much can they realistically 'slash' off a ST and how many more fans would it tempt back) but it is a discussion worth having. The club at the moment are doing the square root of nowt to attract new or old fans as far as I can see, instead just wearily lamenting the blocks of empty seats and wondering why it can't be like 'Oxford' every week. 

At this rate they'll need to get their scientists regenerating fans. The average age in the JWU is approaching 100 and the rest of the ground 50. I'm being 'light-hearted' there but also making a serious point. It's something Rovers seriously need to look at.  

Obviously you're too 'tranquil' to care. 

 

 

 

Fake news, don’t put words in my mouth you complete “libtard”....! Ha

Anyway, I agree with you that there is a place for discussion about refilling the ground, and I accept that there is more to be said than what we’ve read from the LT - but still, read the thread through - the point I am making is about the feeling towards just (as you put it) a “pravda work experience” novice who is painted as some egotistical divider of the fan base.

Its pure guff from where I am sitting, on a lilo floating around lake tranquility. Relax your batty.

The attendance/strategy of management debate is a complete different animal. It’s obvious that Smith thinks slashing prices isn’t realistic when your turnover is one of the lowest in the league, and I can understand that. My own personal thoughts echo the comments by others this morning that “20 is plenty” and more should’ve/could’ve been done at the end of 17/18 to capitalise on it.

The main way (and as we all know only fool proof solution) to returning Ewood to an average of being 3/4+ full; Promotion.

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Biz said:

It’s obvious that Smith thinks slashing prices isn’t realistic when your turnover is one of the lowest in the league, and I can understand that.

Obvious? He's never mentioned it has he? Are you Trumping again?

I look forward to the day when discussions can be had based on what is true, not what is imagined. At the moment it's all froth, little substance?

As for the rest of your post you seem to be in general agreement with the 'frothers' - but what is life without something or someone to cathartically hate and moan about eh!

[Mattyblue]

Ah I see, it was just that I didn’t understand the point he was making. Thanks for the clarification Biz.

In fact, what he meant to do was focus on a completely unrelated point about how we didn’t build on the title win and failed to add even more fans - we definitely would have needed a bigger Riverside in that case- nothing to do with coming out with more untruths to base another ‘fair weather Rovers fans’ piece on.

Maybe he needs to be clearer in future or better yet actually just concentrate on stuff on the pitch for once.

[JBiz]

11 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

Obvious? He's never mentioned it has he? Are you Trumping again?

I look forward to the day when discussions can be had based on what is true, not what is imagined. At the moment it's all froth, little substance?

As for the rest of your post you seem to be in general agreement with the 'frothers' - but what is life without something or someone to cathartically hate and moan about eh!

I think it’s obvious what he inferred by saying “entice folk back to Ewood the club now only have free tickets (impossible)” personally but you gleam what suits your point.

For me, it doesn’t take a literary genius to see that he is not specifically saying it’s either current prices or free tickets- it’s sensationalism at worst and just throwaway comment at best.

I agree with many that this is another poorly worded or uninteresting article from the Let, however I disagree with this notion that Smith is

“ an absolute whopper that just loves attention. He can't write an article without taking a stupid holier than thou stance against other fans.” (sorry Khod, best example I could give, however there are many others)

After taking a deeper look into what he is writing, I’ve just come to the conclusion he’s (as you put it) novice/poor writer.

To take it to the next level - paint him has a hate figure, an agenda wielder, etc - seems a bit over the top.

But alas, we agree on something - people do need something to moan and hate on. It’s good for mental health. 

[Dreams of 1995]

That whole tranquillity point got a little weird didn't it

[blueboy3333]

1 minute ago, Biz said:

but you gleam what suits your point.

For me, it doesn’t take a literary genius to see that he is not specifically saying it’s either current prices or free tickets- it’s sensationalism at worst and just throwaway comment at best.

I'm amazed you didn't spot the unintentional irony in those two sentences. 

You're just as guilty of the things you accuse others of. 

[JBiz]

2 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

I'm amazed you didn't spot the unintentional irony in those two sentences. 

You're just as guilty of the things you accuse others of. 

Quite deliberate BB.

As I’ve previously stated; At no point does it jump out to me like a broadsheet argument, or educated and researched piece on the “empty stadium debate”. Ironic, that he’s criticised for not using statistics when that’s obvious to anyone familiar with his column.

That’s not gleaming something to argue/agree with - read his fecking articles, there fan comments/opinions not in depth research into the rise and fall of our attendance.

I don’t recall accusing anyone either? I’m suggesting that a few (you included) seemingly find these articles deliberately offensive, and to me that’s just utter nonsense. 

We disagree on that point. I’m not sure what else you want me to say BB? Of course “frothing” or the old favourite “trembling” is hyperbole but that’s simply pointing out how ridiculous those angles seem to me.

 

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Biz said:

Quite deliberate BB.

 

Just now, Biz said:

As I’ve previously stated; At no point does it jump out to me like a broadsheet argument, or educated and researched piece on the “empty stadium debate”. Ironic, that he’s criticised for not using statistics when that’s obvious to anyone familiar with his column.

No idea what a 'broadsheet argument' is or why it's relevant. He's talking out of his arse in a local paper. That's it.

I've also no idea what 'criticised for not using statistics' means when he's quite clearly being criticised for using statistics... and specifically statistics that he's made up. 

3 minutes ago, Biz said:

I’m suggesting that a few (you included) seemingly find these articles deliberately offensive, and to me that’s just utter nonsense. 

Not offensive, just inaccurate. But, as you say, that wouldn't suit your argument. You, however, do seem offended by the imagined offense taken by people on here. See, we can do this dance all day, but it's all a bit tedious. 

Good day, sir!

[JBiz]

1 hour ago, blueboy3333 said:

 

No idea what a 'broadsheet argument' is or why it's relevant. He's talking out of his arse in a local paper. That's it.

I've also no idea what 'criticised for not using statistics' means when he's quite clearly being criticised for using statistics... and specifically statistics that he's made up. 

Not offensive, just inaccurate. But, as you say, that wouldn't suit your argument. You, however, do seem offended by the imagined offense taken by people on here. See, we can do this dance all day, but it's all a bit tedious. 

Good day, sir!

Broadsheets are newspapers that have in depth reports. This paper is an advertisement driven tabloid. Two very different things, but I’m sure you knew that anyway. I doubt anyone rounding up figures to the 1000 is aiming for statistical accuracy either, and I’m quite sure you also understand that.

We do agree though, it’s absolute tedium - doesn’t change the opinion this supposed journo is pilloried for imaginary crimes.

[Mattyblue]

Always with the hyperbole. No crimes, just poor writing and a seeming insatiable need to find some way of slagging off the support each week. He’s very innovative on that score, I’ll give him that.

If he was doing a blog somewhere then I’d be saying, ‘you’re wrong, but good luck to you’, however the LT sill plays a pivotal role for a lot of fans when it comes to Rovers news, in fact it’s often the only place they go for Rovers stories and I would prefer not to see exaggerations and plain untruths as the basis for their main weekly column. If you don’t know the facts, don’t attempt to recite them and stick to your opinions.

We get enough shit for our crowds from ill informed non Blues, I don’t want to read it from the representative of our fanbase in the local paper too - is that too much to ask?

Edited October 19, 2018 by Mattyblue

[JBiz]

8 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Always with the hyperbole. No crimes, just poor writing and a seeming insatiable need to find some way of slagging off the support each week. He’s very innovative on that score, I’ll give him that.

If he was doing a blog somewhere then I’d be saying, ‘you’re wrong, but good luck to you’, however the LT sill plays a pivotal role for a lot of fans when it comes to Rovers news, in fact it’s often the only place they go for Rovers stories and I would prefer not to see exaggerations and plain untruths as the basis for their main weekly column. If you don’t know the facts, don’t attempt to recite them and stick to your opinions.

We get enough shit for our crowds from ill informed non Blues, I don’t want to read it from the representative of our fanbase in the local paper too - is that too much to ask?

Not really - however it’s hard to see the LT as anything but advertisement and recycled twitter discussions from my point of view so you might understand why I read these articles and the first thing that comes to mind is “and..?” 

[Mattyblue]

It doesn’t bother me personally because I know he’s usually wrong. However a lot of folk will take what he says at face value, especially because I doubt a lot of readers realise he’s just a fan, not an LT journo.

Anyway we’ve probably done this to death (until next week!)

Edited October 19, 2018 by Mattyblue

[JHRover]

35 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

 

We get enough shit for our crowds from ill informed non Blues, I don’t want to read it from the representative of our fanbase in the local paper too - is that too much to ask?

When it comes to the Telegraph then yes, I think it is a lot to ask. This sort of nonsense has been spouted for as long as I can remember. Dingle arm of the operation healthily populated with died in the wool clarets but the Rovers side seems to have a high turnover of non-Rovers supporting people. Cryer was the epitome of that. Rovers correspondent and yet you could almost taste the envy and bitterness in his words whilst his beloved Bristol City were slumming it in the lower leagues. Then when he left he came out of the closet and now makes little/no secret of his contempt for the club.

[tomphil]

Contempt for the fans.

"The travelling few" he frequently and needlessly pointed out in his away match reports when Allardyce was in charge.

[Roving Mick]

They had a feature on Duane Eddy in the Lancs Telegraph this week.  I will always remember him from the journey to Cardiff, when we beat Spurs in the League Cup.  From the Severn Bridge to Cardiff, the coach driver must have played one track after another.

The most irritating aspect of this journey was Duane Eddy.  I used to like his records, despite their age.  But when they were played over and over again I began to hate the guitar man.  All I remember from this coach journey was “Dang De De Dang De De Dang De De De De De De.  Dance to the Guitar Man.  Can you hear me?”  Yes I bloody well could!  I just wish he’d broken his strings. 

Thank goodness we won the cup!