WATR (The Rovers Trust)

[Mattyblue]

It's the disingenuous-ness that gets me.

Why not just come out and give the real reason for the Blackburn End closure instead of tripe about occupancy rates,

I suppose 'the club' has spent so long engaging in smoke and mirrors on behalf of these owners it's just second nature to them now.

[Herbie6590]

5 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

It's the disingenuous-ness that gets me.

Why not just come out and give the real reason for the Blackburn End closure instead of tripe about occupancy rates,

I suppose 'the club' has spent so long engaging in smoke and mirrors on behalf of these owners it's just second nature to them now.

What do you think the real reason for the BBE closure is ? 

If funds expected from India haven’t arrived, the funding of working capital has to come from the UK businesses. If Waggott thinks it costs more to open & run the BBE than the marginal income (for that game) it would bring in, why isn’t that the reason ? 🤔
 

Not saying I agree with the proposition BTW, but the logic holds…doesn’t it ? 

[arbitro]

I do wonder if this could be us in a few months.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12997167/sheffield-wednesday-owner-dejphon-chansiri-calls-for-fans-to-raise-2m-to-save-the-club-from-three-window-transfer-ban

[Mattyblue]

39 minutes ago, Herbie6590 said:

What do you think the real reason for the BBE closure is ? 

If funds expected from India haven’t arrived, the funding of working capital has to come from the UK businesses. If Waggott thinks it costs more to open & run the BBE than the marginal income (for that game) it would bring in, why isn’t that the reason ? 🤔
 

Not saying I agree with the proposition BTW, but the logic holds…doesn’t it ? 

What was Swag saying again? That you would need to staff/operate the the Blackburn End in the same manner for one person in there as 5000? Obviously total nonsense.

It certainly was logical from a on paper straight cash in/cash viewpoint as with no owner liquidity coming in, lets try and find any piddling savings where we can. However, it was illogical in the round as it obviously led to fewer punters on the day and a disgruntled customer base, so what savings were actually made?

 

Edited October 31, 2023 by Mattyblue

[wilsdenrover]

1 hour ago, Miller11 said:

 

We met with Waggott specifically on this, short news is nothing to report.

Waggott found out about the asset seizures in the same way everyone else did. From his point of view the situation hasn’t progressed since he last gave an update. The funds from India are still on hold, Venkys are telling him they are working hard to remedy the situation and remain committed. As a director he needs to be assured that there is nothing problematic in the accounts or that would come out in an audit, and he’s happy that’s the case. The issue is cash flow, that’s the reason for the BBE closure in the last league cup game, things are tight. Venky’s told him “not yet” in terms of a statement - so I doubt we will get one unless there is a change for the better.

Personally I’m very concerned about January because if the tap isn’t turned on by then it’s going to mean sales. 

Did he actually say that or is this the conclusion you drew?

[wilsdenrover]

38 minutes ago, Herbie6590 said:

What do you think the real reason for the BBE closure is ? 

If funds expected from India haven’t arrived, the funding of working capital has to come from the UK businesses. If Waggott thinks it costs more to open & run the BBE than the marginal income (for that game) it would bring in, why isn’t that the reason ? 🤔
 

Not saying I agree with the proposition BTW, but the logic holds…doesn’t it ? 

Waggott’s words at the time gave the impression the club didn’t think it was worth opening the BBE.

I’d say this entirely different to the truth that we couldn’t afford to have the BBE open.

I wonder if this is the disingenuousness @Mattyblue is referring to.

If it is, I certainly agree.

[wilsdenrover]

35 minutes ago, arbitro said:

I do wonder if this could be us in a few months.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12997167/sheffield-wednesday-owner-dejphon-chansiri-calls-for-fans-to-raise-2m-to-save-the-club-from-three-window-transfer-ban

I think they’d get the same answer as Chansiri is getting…

Two words, one of which is off.

[Mattyblue]

7 minutes ago, wilsdenrover said:

Waggott’s words at the time gave the impression the club didn’t think it was worth opening the BBE.

I’d say this entirely different to the truth that we couldn’t afford to have the BBE open.

I wonder if this is the disingenuousness @Mattyblue is referring to.

If it is, I certainly agree.

Exactly that.

The wider fanbase generally still think the owners are ruddy marvellous, so in reality if it had been made clear that due to this oh so very temporary cashflow issue they are struggling through and how every penny counts at the moment they'd largely have understood.

Edited October 31, 2023 by Mattyblue

[Miller11]

20 minutes ago, wilsdenrover said:

Did he actually say that or is this the conclusion you drew?

I’m paraphrasing here but it was along the lines of

”We need to make savings wherever we can, that’s why we closed the Blackburn End.”

[wilsdenrover]

7 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

I’m paraphrasing here but it was along the lines of

”We need to make savings wherever we can, that’s why we closed the Blackburn End.”

Thanks for the clarification.

I wonder why (and I know you don’t have the answer) he would say that to you but not to the wider fanbase.

[tomphil]

2 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

Exactly that.

The wider fanbase generally still think the owners are ruddy marvellous, so in reality if it had been made clear that due to this oh so very temporary cashflow issue they are struggling through and how every penny counts at the moment they'd largely have understood.

The wider fanbase aren't aware or as aware of how the situations really go with Venkys and the finance.

It's all 'they 'give' us 20 million a year' sunshine and rainbows and the real blame lies in bad luck and fans not turning up, even though the gates we get are standard for us.

Wouldn't be the case if the local media outlets portrayed the warts and all and chased people for answers and truths.

[Upside Down]

2 hours ago, tomphil said:

The wider fanbase aren't aware or as aware of how the situations really go with Venkys and the finance.

It's all 'they 'give' us 20 million a year' sunshine and rainbows and the real blame lies in bad luck and fans not turning up, even though the gates we get are standard for us.

Wouldn't be the case if the local media outlets portrayed the warts and all and chased people for answers and truths.

Or any media.

The only place that anyone seriously discusses these topics is on here. We get painted as a bunch of lunatics because we actually give a fuck.

4 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

What was Swag saying again? That you would need to staff/operate the the Blackburn End in the same manner for one person in there as 5000? Obviously total nonsense.

It certainly was logical from a on paper straight cash in/cash viewpoint as with no owner liquidity coming in, lets try and find any piddling savings where we can. However, it was illogical in the round as it obviously led to fewer punters on the day and a disgruntled customer base, so what savings were actually made?

 

You're trying to understand the logic of a total fucking moron. You'll do yourself no favours there.

[tomphil]

6 hours ago, Miller11 said:

I’m paraphrasing here but it was along the lines of

”We need to make savings wherever we can, that’s why we closed the Blackburn End.”

Desperate stuff and no savings at all considering about a thousand snubbed the game.

For me he's bullshitting again he's finally got a reason to do something he'll have been set on doing for a while. It'll not open again for these games now unless there is glamorous or local opposition just wait and see.

 

[Herbie6590]

16 hours ago, wilsdenrover said:

I think they’d get the same answer as Chansiri is getting…

Two words, one of which is off.

Only put money in if you get shares in return seems a reasonable trade off…

[wilsdenrover]

12 minutes ago, Herbie6590 said:

Only put money in if you get shares in return seems a reasonable trade off…

Unless it’s 51% or more of the shares I’m not sure even that would make it worth it.

Otherwise in our case (and probably Wednesday’s too) you’d end up with:

- no decision making powers and

- shares which you’d never get your money back on.

 

[Herbie6590]

6 hours ago, wilsdenrover said:

Unless it’s 51% or more of the shares I’m not sure even that would make it worth it.

Otherwise in our case (and probably Wednesday’s too) you’d end up with:

- no decision making powers and

- shares which you’d never get your money back on.

 

Is that you Sir Jim Ratcliffe ? 😆

[wilsdenrover]

1 minute ago, Herbie6590 said:

Is that you Sir Jim Ratcliffe ? 😆

That’s so weird - I nearly used him as an example of what would be acceptable. 😁 

[philipl]

Did Waggott give any indication of what happens if this situation continues?

If they cannot fund us which after five months of worsening news and no sign of resolution, at some point there has to be a firesale.

Will that be of assets or of all of the club?

 

[wilsdenrover]

1 minute ago, philipl said:

Did Waggott give any indication of what happens if this situation continues?

If they cannot fund us which after five months of worsening news and no sign of resolution, at some point there has to be a firesale.

Will that be of assets or of all of the club?

 

I imagine they’d sell anything of value and then ‘worry from there’.

Whatever they do, none of it will be with the club’s best interest in mind.

[Upside Down]

2 minutes ago, wilsdenrover said:

I imagine they’d sell anything of value and then ‘worry from there’.

Whatever they do, none of it will be with the club’s best interest in mind.

The club's best interest? What the fuck is that?

[wilsdenrover]

2 hours ago, Upside Down said:

The club's best interest? What the fuck is that?

Giving us the best chance to win games and to get promoted.

I know this, you know this, unfortunately those in charge either don’t, or don’t give a fuck (I’m sure we both know which of these it is too).

[lraC]

Given what’s been posted in the accounts year on year, about the owners needing to plug the gap, perhaps a proper announcement now needs to be made, if they can’t fund us any more.

Assuming they can’t put anything at all in, then they need to sell, as it then means whoever comes in only needs to put £1 in to make them a better option. 

[Mattyblue]

If and when Wharton goes for peanuts in January purely to pay day to day bills, have an ask around you at Ewood for who’s to blame.

Who do you reckon will get most of the ire? That family that has run down this great club for a decade until it resembles this sad, diminished rump we now see… or will you hear more of that it’s due to our ‘shit fans and crap gates, we have no money and are a small club, so what do you expect?’

Edited November 4, 2023 by Mattyblue

[lraC]

6 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

If and when Wharton goes for peanuts in January, have an ask around you at Ewood for who’s to blame.

Who do you reckon will get most of the ire? That family that has run down this great club for a decade until it resembles this sad, diminished rump we now see… or will you hear more of that it’s due to our ‘shit fans and crap gates, we have no money and a small club, what do you expect?’

It’s ironic really, as even another 10,000 season tickets, at the current price, would not make a difference.

Venkys presided over the collapse and fall from the premier league in 18 months, so how anyone can blame anyone but them, is a mystery. 

[wilsdenrover]

9 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

If and when Wharton goes for peanuts in January, have an ask around you at Ewood for who’s to blame.

Who do you reckon will get most of the ire? That family that has run down this great club for a decade until it resembles this sad, diminished rump we now see… or will you hear more of that it’s due to our ‘shit fans and crap gates, we have no money and a small club, what do you expect?’

It beggars belief anyone can look at their time as owners and not see they are entirely to blame for where we are now.