WATR (The Rovers Trust)

[Mattyblue]

I’d imagine it’s largely the ideas of Miller and the WATR committee, as I’m sure I’ve remembered him posting those ideas on here in the past (and in the WATR Prospectus from last year).

[J*B]

16 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

I’d imagine it’s largely the ideas of Miller and the WATR committee, as I’m sure I’ve remembered him posting those ideas on here in the past (and in the WATR Prospectus from last year).

I imagine that’s the case too. I’m not sure who’s on the committee, though.

Which is fine, but for me it should be clearer who has come to these conclusions and whose opinions I’m reading. I’m unsure as to how the Trusts represents its members if it doesn’t consult its members on strategic decisions. Or at least, hasn’t consulted me as one of its members. 

[roversfan99]

The main issue is pricing, end of. If you want to introduce flexi tickets as well, and there are pros and cons to that idea, dont discriminate based on geography. Im guessing members of the trust live outside a 25 mile radius hence the idea.

Yes the matchday experience and marketing need to be improved, and we need to get rid of the phases and also bring them out much earlier. But make them cheaper, and thats the only thing that will move the dial significantly. And think longer term, more people in now might not necessarily immediately increase revenue but it gets more people in the habit going forward and leads to other indirect streams of income.

It wont happen, Waggott will come up with warped logic (and probably has little to no say as one of the 2 main water carriers for the owners) and the trust will likely be sucked in. I thought that the pricing was a joint success this season?

[Mattyblue]

Yep, whilst in this league it is very simple, make them cheaper, that’s it. There is absolutely no other way for us to sell substantially more than 9/10k.

Bolton have proved you don’t need ‘flexi tickets’. Make them cheap and if you fancied one but know you’ll miss a few (I.e night games) you’ll probably get one anyway… however price them between £350 and £550, you won’t.

Edited November 28 by Mattyblue

[K-Hod]

Appreciate the efforts here, but improving the match day experience and flexi ticket business is all secondary really.

Price them better and you'll get more bites.

I can't see those making the decisions dropping the price though unfortunately.

No matter how much they're told, they fundamentally just don't want to/the owners won't go for it (both applicable IMO).

[Upside Down]

Not had any communication from the trust regarding what the members think of any proposals. Maybe a questionnaire would be a good idea 💡

If the members had been consulted then I'm sure I wouldn't be the only one saying that flexi tickets are a load of bollocks. What we need is cheaper tickets and new owners. If the trust isn't pushing hard for both these things then why?

I also find their absence from here disappointing, they should be communicating with all fan groups and forums, here, Facebook, other rovers forums etc to make their presence known and drum up more members.

Given the current membership is low I don't see any reason for there not to be any consultation with the membership as to what direction the trust should be taking.

[Herbie6590]

From BlueSky about Man U but has relevance here…

[arbitro]

Preston supporters are angry and have written to owners. 

[Upside Down]

3 hours ago, arbitro said:

Preston supporters are angry and have written to owners. 

We could do that here but first we'd need to teach them how to read.

[Herbie6590]

1 hour ago, Upside Down said:

We could do that here but first we'd need to teach them how to read.

We know they’d struggle sending a reply…

[chaddyrovers]

6 hours ago, arbitro said:

Preston supporters are angry and have written to owners. 

Have they got a reply from Hemmings or Ridsdale? 

[Mike Graham]

https://www.roverstrust.com/news/newsletter---december-2024

Notes of our MoU (Memorandum of Understanding) Meeting held 12th December 2024: 

The meeting was again conducted in an open constructive fashion.  Positive two way engagement took place.

These are the agreed notes from our meeting with the Club.   

Club Finances: 

WATR asked about the discrepancy in the statements made by the Club and those contained within the VLL Annual Accounts regarding the Club being a going concern.  SW confirmed the Club statement within the BRFC 23/24 statutory accounts would reflect the current situation on the going concern notes and that due to a timing issue the VLL accounts had been worded without the adjustment that had taken place to allow the remittance of funds to the club. He confirmed he would be signing off the Club accounts by the end of December and that the Owners are able to make payments to the Club (currently with a bond / guarantee) having acquired a No Objection Certificate from the Indian Authorities.  

The Club would be requesting further funding for the second part of the 2024/2025 period to assist with covering statutory payments, operational costs and to allow activity in the January transfer window.  SW stated the Club was currently in a good position on the pitch and was financially stable. It was generally felt the Club had opportunities to build upon its current first team form and league position to stay in play-off contention and that it would be looking to strengthen the first team squad in key positions during the forthcoming winter transfer window in January. 

The Club were also asked about the Senior Training Centre (STC) and its ownership.  SW confirmed all loans had been paid off with funds provided by the Owners; he also confirmed the Club pay rent to the Owners relating to the transfer of the STC to VLL 2  but the aim was to bring the STC back into club ownership as soon as possible and at an appropriate future juncture.  WATR welcomed the intentions regarding STC ownership and said this would be warmly welcomed by the vast majority of supporters. 

Safe Standing: 

WATR stated their support for Safe Standing at Ewood Park.   The Club told us they were in discussion with the SGSA, Safety Advisory Group and various external parties in regard to the plan and costs for this exercise.  Rovers had sought information from other clubs and recognised that safety rails could be fitted as a more cost-effective alternative to tip-up seating/barrier units.  The Club were costing options, but this would have to be considered alongside other ground repairs and improvements.  

150th Anniversary: 

The 2nd meeting of the 150th Planning Committee had taken place the previous day.  This meeting included two representatives of the WATR Board alongside senior BwD Council representation, the 100 Club and the Community Trust.  A Club lottery bid had been submitted and the Club now await the Heritage Lottery Fund coming back to them in the next two to three months.  A wide range of ideas had been discussed including gable end murals on several buildings across town as well as a music festival, blue plaques, an anniversary book and a celebratory home fixture as close to 5th November 2025 as possible.   

WATR welcomed the collaborative approach taken by the Club and offered to sponsor a gable end mural featuring Rovers supporters of all backgrounds and ages.  WATR also reiterated that the 150th Anniversary year would be a good opportunity for the Owners to attend one or more games. 

Season Tickets 2025/26: 

The Club welcomed the WATR document although they were unhappy it had been sent to the local media without being pre advised.  The Chair of WATR recognised the concerns raised and stated we would give the Club sufficient notice with any future media engagement.

The WATR document focussed largely on the marketing of ST’s and the need to look outside of the Club’s existing database and to engage and market those outside of the immediate BwD area. 

A lengthy discussion took place on pricing. It was noted that although the early bird pricing for adult tickets has varied between £319 and £399 over the past six seasons, the volume of adult season ticket purchases has remained largely unchanged. The number of adult ST sales in the 2018/19 season when the early bird price was £319 was pretty similar to adult season ticket sales this season. The Supporters Trust highlighted that other local clubs offered lower-priced season tickets. In response, the Club emphasised that while the lead adult early bird price might be lower, Preston North End's (PNE) U23 season ticket prices were twice as high, and overall, PNE’s average season ticket cost was £44 more expensive across all age groups. The Club also pointed out that, on average, only Oxford, Hull, and QPR had cheaper season ticket prices, while Cardiff and Stoke's prices were similar. With adult season ticket sales accounting for less than 45% of total sales, and 55% consisting of concessions, it is important to take both age groups and concession pricing into account when evaluating the overall season ticket pricing structure. There was recognition that financial targets were set by the Owners / Board and these would not reduce in the future; WATR stressed the need for more innovative approaches and bundling with other Club offers.  The Club stated they would seriously consider our proposals and welcomed further discussions.  WATR stressed the need for better fan engagement and proactive communications on financial matters. 

Supporter Engagement: 

The Club were open and receptive to the proposal of several roadshow meetings with supporter groups from February / March onwards. WATR volunteered toplay a key role in assisting in arranging these meetings alongside the Club.  The medium-term aim is to set up a Fan Advisory Board with the longer-term aim of convening a Shadow Board with appropriate supporter representation.   

Further discussion took place on the Football Governance Bill with the second reading in the House of Lords throwing up various amendments that could delay the Bill becoming Law.  Both the Club and WATR were of the view that an Independent Football Regulator would be a real positive step forward for improved football governance along with Fan Advisory Boards / Shadow Boards eventually being established. It was clear that Rovers are continuing to advance their preparation and readiness for changes to the future framework of football.  

WATR 2025/26 Season Ticket Proposals 

The full WATR document can be found at: https://www.roverstrust.com/news/season-tickets-2025-26-proposals

Our proposals focus on: value; atmosphere; timing of sales; marketing outside of BwD and thinking outside the box. 

We summarise our recommendations as follows: 

• Earlier sales targeted for the final home game of the season 
• Free school tickets for the final home game of the season to coincide with the ST launch 
• Consistent, fair pricing and removal of deadlines 
• A reduced game ST for those living over 25 miles from Ewood 
• Bundling of ST’s with added options 
• The Riverside prices should be reduced and ‘entry level’ Season Tickets offered in the uncovered seats 
• A meaningful attempt to target areas outside of BwD 
• Sales leaflets should be produced and delivered to new housing estates in the locality of Ewood Park 
• The match day atmosphere should be addressed 
• Safe standing should be funded and introduced as soon as possible. 

A Happy Christmas and New Year!! 

We Are The Rovers Supporters Trust wish all members and Rovers supporters a very happy blue and white Christmas and New Year.  Let us hope 2025 is successful. 

If you have any feedback please email: [email protected]

[Mattyblue]

So nothing will change re adult pricing then, 9,000 ST holders it is going forward.

Why does the National Lottery need to fund the club’s 150th anniversary, a club owned by billionaires?

[J*B]

As always, appreciate the WATR board giving up their spare time to try and get some sense out of these people. Based on those minutes, I gather...

1) Waggott said there was no obstacles in the owners funding the club... apart from for every £ they send, they still need to deposit £1 to the Indian Government as a bond.

2) Waggott is speaking to some companies about the cost involved in safe standing. I'm guessing his ingenious plan is to continue with the previous suggestion of Rovers fans fundraising for it, despite having billionaire owners and over 40M of transfer fee income in the last 3 years. 

3) Waggott would like the fans (again) as well as the National Lottery (???) to fund the most expensive bits of the 150th year celebration of our football club. 

4) Waggott still doesn't accept or understand that a £319 season ticket is too expensive, never mind the £399 offering. 

5) The price of season tickets is a pretty easy equation to get to: The total revenue target set by Venkys / The number of fans that will back the club regardless = The price. As an equation, we're looking at: TR (Target Revenue) ÷ F (Fans) = £P (£Price).

6) Waggott continues to dangle a carrot of a mysterious shadow board 

7) WATR's season ticket proposal doesn't agree with my theory on how to sell tickets, which for clarification is:

Have them on sale immediately after the last home game of the season

Take them off sale the day before the first home game of the season

Have them at one price between those two dates

Max adult prices no-more than £287.50 in all stands apart from the 'premium' offering of Jack Walker Upper Central

Use an accessible finance partner that allows that season ticket to be paid over maximum 12-months i.e. Klarna. 

[chaddyrovers]

8 minutes ago, J*B said:

Have them on sale immediately after the last home game of the season

why not on them on sale from March/April onwards? 

[MarkBRFC]

51 minutes ago, Mike Graham said:

The Club would be requesting further funding for the second part of the 2024/2025 period to assist with covering statutory payments, operational costs and to allow activity in the January transfer window.  SW stated the Club was currently in a good position on the pitch and was financially stable. It was generally felt the Club had opportunities to build upon its current first team form and league position to stay in play-off contention and that it would be looking to strengthen the first team squad in key positions during the forthcoming winter transfer window in January. 

"lol" as the kids say these days.

[Hasta]

Waggot points out that our adult season tickets are more expensive than other local club but our concessions are cheaper than others.

And that we now sell more concessions than adults.

It's almost as if the two points are linked !

Edited Tuesday at 13:37 by Hasta

[rigger]

5 minutes ago, Hasta said:

Waggot points out that our adult season tickets are more expensive than other local club but our concessions are cheaper than others.

And that we now sell more concessions than adults.

It's almost as if the two points are linked !

That is an example of where follow-up questions should be asked.

[Mike E]

Why does the club keep pointing at ST prices at other clubs? That’s irrelevant, as they are not competitors for our ST purchase. The only thing the club needs to do is appeal to our fans.

I’ll reiterate what I’ve said in the past: Make it as easy as possible for any fan to attend.

Riverside: Entry level pricing. £200.

BBE, JWL, JWU wings: £250.

JWU central: £300.

Knock £50 off those prices for OAPs, FT students, and ages 16-23.

12-16: £100 anywhere in the ground.

u12: £50 anywhere in the ground (any two must be accompanied by at least one adult).

All walk-ons, regardless of game, none of this ‘category’ bullshit.

Adult: £20 anywhere in the ground, £25 JWU Central.

£15 for concessions.

£10 for 12-16

£5 for u12

Affordable for any individual who wants to attend.

Edited Tuesday at 13:51 by Mike E

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

So nothing will change re adult pricing then, 9,000 ST holders it is going forward.

Why does the National Lottery need to fund the club’s 150th anniversary, a club owned by billionaires?

Infuriating and embarrassing isn't it..have a feeling it's going to be a disaster!

Celebratory fixture? Played against Lincoln rather than Liverpool more likely.

 

No mention about the dirty unkempt state of the Stadium either?

Nothing but Smoke and Mirrors every time from this lot.Total lack of imagination and good Business sense.

Edited Tuesday at 14:17 by SIMON GARNERS 194

[RevidgeBlue]

56 minutes ago, J*B said:

As always, appreciate the WATR board giving up their spare time to try and get some sense out of these people. Based on those minutes, I gather...

1) Waggott said there was no obstacles in the owners funding the club... apart from for every £ they send, they still need to deposit £1 to the Indian Government as a bond.

The minutes say bond/guarantee. Which one is it?

(I think merely a guarantee)

[RevidgeBlue]

45 minutes ago, Hasta said:

Waggot points out that our adult season tickets are more expensive than other local club but our concessions are cheaper than others.

And that we now sell more concessions than adults.

It's almost as if the two points are linked !

Whoever would have thought it!

[chaddyrovers]

33 minutes ago, Mike E said:

12-16: £100 anywhere in the ground.

u12: £50 anywhere in the ground

Why would increase prices for the under 16 category when you seen an increase from previous season? 

[J*B]

20 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

The minutes say bond/guarantee. Which one is it?

(I think merely a guarantee)

I'm speculating but I infer it's a bond, which acts as a guarantee. 

[Mike E]

36 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Why would increase prices for the under 16 category when you seen an increase from previous season? 

Because I’m focusing on making it affordable for EVERYONE, not just cheap for kids.