Championship 2017/18

[JHRover]

16 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

By your definition Leicester are bigger than Everton yet you fail to mention them. Liverpool haven't won the league for nearly 30 years, Everton longer. Playing in the top division on a regular basis doesn't make you a big club. Leeds will always be a bigger club than B'mouth even if B'mouth finish 10th in the top division for the next 20 years on the spin.

History, crowds, prestige, tradition,  trophies won, reputation, infrastructure etc all contribute to being a big club. Not just money and league position.

No, because by my definition the big clubs are the ones who are nearly always in the top 6-7 of the top flight and have been for years and years. Ever presents in the top division, regularly challenging for the league, and European qualification.

Leicester aren't bigger than Everton by that criteria, because whilst they had one freak league win and CL qualification it was a 'one off'. Nobody expected it, precisely because Leicester aren't a big club and so nobody thought they could compete with those big clubs. Everton have been mainstays in the Premier League and whilst they haven't won owt for a while have almost always been in the higher positions whilst the clubs I referred to earlier have wallowed in the lower divisions.

We had a Premier League win, that doesnt make us bigger than Liverpool because it was unfortunately a one off and our period in that club at the top of the Prem only lasted for a few years and we haven't been near since. 

Whilst Liverpool haven't won the league in a long time they have maintained their status as a big club. They have been regulars in the Champions League, won it not long since, regulars in the knock out and latter stages, several title challenges, numerous other trophies. Not what they once were but haven't done what pretenders like Leeds/Forest have and been in a 20 year exile from the top division, nor have they done what Villa did and ended up making up the numbers in the top division before eventual relegation. Another lot who reckon they are big off past glories/above average crowds but don't have the results to back it up.

I agree that Leeds will always be bigger than Bournemouth, but that doesn't mean Leeds are a big club. We will always be bigger than Rochdale, that doesn't make Rovers a 'big club'. We are bigger than most in League One, Leeds are bigger than most in the Championship, but by the standards of English football they are no longer a 'big club'. That distinction lies with the small number who are the mainstays at the top and who hoover up the best players, most money and most trophies. United, Arsenal, Liverpool have been there for a very long time. Everton have been on the edges of that club, as have Spurs. City and Chelsea have broken into it in the last few years due to massive financial backing which has propelled them into it. Chelsea weren't a big club before Abramovich came along. He's made them one. Maybe one day when his money has gone they'll revert back to what they were. Maybe if Leeds get promoted and survive they will eventually start to break into the big club again and become a member. 

Put simply I refuse to class anyone outside the Premier League into 'big club' category. You wouldn't be in this league if you were big. 

[blueboy3333]

Just now, JHRover said:

Another lot who reckon they are big off past glories/above average crowds but don't have the results to back it up.

Villa are another big club. Everton are also a big club but not because they've been finishing in the top 10 of the Prem for the last 10 seasons but never winning anything. They are historically just a big club. Chelsea were a big club in the 50's, 60's and 70's using your criteria. They struggled in the 80's but you only seem you seem to think they have become 'big' since Abramovic took over.

You seem to put money and league position before all so we'll agree to disagree. It's all a bit Sky Sports for me, sorry.

[JHRover]

20 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

Villa are another big club. Everton are also a big club but not because they've been finishing in the top 10 of the Prem for the last 10 seasons but never winning anything. They are historically just a big club. Chelsea were a big club in the 50's, 60's and 70's using your criteria. They struggled in the 80's but you only seem you seem to think they have become 'big' since Abramovic took over.

You seem to put money and league position before all so we'll agree to disagree. It's all a bit Sky Sports for me, sorry.

Money and league positions work hand in hand. The reason the likes of United, Liverpool, Arsenal have maintained their status at the top of English football has been because they have had more money than most over a long long time. We temporarily overcame that thanks to Jack Walker, Chelsea and City are currently doing it and are therefore among the elite and challenging for glory.

Leeds, Forest, Villa are things of the past. Living off past glories whilst occupying 2nd and 3rd division slots. Sheffield Wed have even less to go off as they haven't had any period of success other than a League Cup in the modern era. 

Prior to Abramovich rocking up Chelsea had won 1 league title in their history and a few FA Cups. Less than we had pre-Walker. Since his arrival they have won it all and have been challenging for trophies every season. They might have been big a long time ago, but had since lost that status. Same for City. Were big in the 60s and 70s, then in the 90s and 00s they weren't big, then the Arabs made them big by pouring billions in. If a billionaire took over Derby/Sunderland tomorrow and spent what the Arabs had spent at City I'm sure they would eventually become big clubs too. 

Its ultimately all relative. Compare Leeds to other Championship clubs and they are 'big'. But I don't think that makes them 'big' in English football, as take away distant glories and above average fanbases and they are miles behind the true big clubs who will be winning trophies and dominating the game.

Forest haven't been in the top 20 clubs since 1999, and even then they were a poor, struggling side. Infact you have to go back to the mid-80s to when they were actually a decent top division side. That isn't a big club when you compare to Liverpool/United/Arsenal. 

If you go to League Two then I'm sure Luton are a 'big club' relatively speaking. They aren't a big club in English football. Same applies to the 2nd division sides mentioned above.

[islander200]

Redknapp leaves Big club

[TAFKAP]

24 minutes ago, islander200 said:

Redknapp leaves Big club

I think the Championship's Preston North End are the Grim Reaper of football managers. 

[tomphil]

Nobbers only won because super Lowe went off injured after 3 mins

[TAFKAP]

Just now, tomphil said:

Nobbers only won because super Lowe went off injured after 3 mins

Lol,

I predicted we would have a good season, but it's way too early to get excited yet. It would be good for the city if its football club sampled top tier football again, but as a small club we can't complain with top 10 in the second tier.

 

I think it great small clubs from non league earning their way into the football league and doing well.

 

 

 

[tomphil]

2 hours ago, TAFKAP said:

Lol,

I predicted we would have a good season, but it's way too early to get excited yet. It would be good for the city if its football club sampled top tier football again, but as a small club we can't complain with top 10 in the second tier.

 

I think it great small clubs from non league earning their way into the football league and doing well.

 

 

 

It's not on that they bring their own refs with them though

On the other point yeah you can't beat what being in the Prem brings to your local area and I think PNE are going about it the right way, positive managerial appointment.

[Stuart]

I just think it's great that North End will never be as successful as Rovers.

Despite being a 'city' club.

[Boaty]

2 hours ago, TAFKAP said:

Lol,

I predicted we would have a good season, but it's way too early to get excited yet. It would be good for the city if its football club sampled top tier football again, but as a small club we can't complain with top 10 in the second tier.

 

I think it great small clubs from non league earning their way into the football league and doing well.

 

 

 

Its cute how you say city, probably the most tinpot city in england.

[TAFKAP]

1 hour ago, Boaty said:

Its cute how you say city, probably the most tinpot city in england.

A perfectly tied fly, I would say. Got two on one cast.

Edited September 16, 2017 by TAFKAP

[RevidgeBlue]

4 hours ago, tomphil said:

Nobbers only won because super Lowe went off injured after 3 mins

"JLo whistled contentedly and sailed merrily on his way collecting 15k p.w. having seen off yet another manager."

How many's that? Kean/Black/Berg/Appleton/Bowyer/Lambert/Coyle/Redknapp.

Some going.

[tomphil]

10 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

"JLo whistled contentedly and sailed merrily on his way collecting 15k p.w. having seen off yet another manager."

How many's that? Kean/Black/Berg/Appleton/Bowyer/Lambert/Coyle/Redknapp.

Some going.

Minus Arrys regular 10% of course !

[jim mk2]

Lowe was man of the match v Leeds the other week. And he could still have done a good job for us this season, either at right back or in midfield. Are his replacements in those positions really any better?

Or another note, I hope that's the last of Redknapp. He's never liked Rovers and compounded it by inspiring Birmingham to stay up last season at our expense. I hope they go down this time.  

[Bigdoggsteel]

52 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Lowe was man of the match v Leeds the other week. And he could still have done a good job for us this season, either at right back or in midfield. Are his replacements in those positions really any better?

Or another note, I hope that's the last of Redknapp. He's never liked Rovers and compounded it by inspiring Birmingham to stay up last season at our expense. I hope they go down this time.  

Smallwood is better. 

Agreed, that Lowe could have been a decent right back this season. Although he obviously wasn't prepared to take too much of a pay cut 

Edited September 17, 2017 by Bigdoggsteel

[Oldgregg86]

2 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

Lowe was man of the match v Leeds the other week. And he could still have done a good job for us this season, either at right back or in midfield. Are his replacements in those positions really any better?

Or another note, I hope that's the last of Redknapp. He's never liked Rovers and compounded it by inspiring Birmingham to stay up last season at our expense. I hope they go down this time.  

Smallwood is far better than lowe. The right backs are no worse and don't earn his wage between them.

Edited September 18, 2017 by Oldgregg86

[Butty]

3 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

Lowe was man of the match v Leeds the other week. And he could still have done a good job for us this season, either at right back or in midfield. Are his replacements in those positions really any better?

Or another note, I hope that's the last of Redknapp. He's never liked Rovers and compounded it by inspiring Birmingham to stay up last season at our expense. I hope they go down this time.  

Our right back options are no worse than Lowe which is saying something. Smallwood and evans are also miles better in the centre.  I've said it before and I'll say it again, Jason Lowe wouldn't stand out playing for a conference level side. Absolute fraud of a footballer. No disrespect to him as he seems like a nice lad but he's a terrible footballer. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

The video clip of him trying to, I don't actually know, but ending up running the ball out over the touchline last season from about 15 feet from the touchline, sums up his ability. I never saw someone do that in junior football, let alone a professional. 

[JHRover]

Birmingham's decision to give Rowett the boot as they were just outside the play-offs last season looking like being the poor decision most thought it would be. Zola nearly took them down and now Redknapp has left them 2nd bottom having spent a fair amount in the window. Be nice to see them and Bolton come down.

[Bigdoggsteel]

4 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Birmingham's decision to give Rowett the boot as they were just outside the play-offs last season looking like being the poor decision most thought it would be. Zola nearly took them down and now Redknapp has left them 2nd bottom having spent a fair amount in the window. Be nice to see them and Bolton come down.

I wonder where we would be had we stayed up? My head says somewhere around where Birmingham are, unfortunately. 

[JHRover]

2 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I wonder where we would be had we stayed up? My head says somewhere around where Birmingham are, unfortunately. 

Tough one to second guess really. If they'd have continued with the policy of the last few seasons then probably where Birmingham are now, however if they'd have 'rewarded' Mowbray with a bit of money to spend and he'd made some astute signings there's no reason we couldn't be higher.

Interesting that the current top 6 contains Ipswich, PNE, Sheffield United and Cardiff. None of whom have spent big. Sheff Utd just come up after a long spell in the 3rd division, Ipswich and Preston have spet very little and have been astute in their business, Cardiff not spent much more. Experience and good management reaping rewards rather than the chaos at other clubs. Meanwhile the big spenders like Derby, Sheffield Wednesday and Villa are struggling to get going.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, JHRover said:

Tough one to second guess really. If they'd have continued with the policy of the last few seasons then probably where Birmingham are now, however if they'd have 'rewarded' Mowbray with a bit of money to spend and he'd made some astute signings there's no reason we couldn't be higher.

Interesting that the current top 6 contains Ipswich, PNE, Sheffield United and Cardiff. None of whom have spent big. Sheff Utd just come up after a long spell in the 3rd division, Ipswich and Preston have spet very little and have been astute in their business, Cardiff not spent much more. Experience and good management reaping rewards rather than the chaos at other clubs. Meanwhile the big spenders like Derby, Sheffield Wednesday and Villa are struggling to get going.

Preston have made some great signings from the League of Ireland for absolute peanuts. I don't know why we don't do the same. Daryll Horgan and Sean Maguire would have been great signings for us. Both in the Ireland squad, I would say they got them both for less than €250,000 

[JHRover]

37 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Preston have made some great signings from the League of Ireland for absolute peanuts. I don't know why we don't do the same. Daryll Horgan and Sean Maguire would have been great signings for us. Both in the Ireland squad, I would say they got them both for less than €250,000 

To be honest not to dissimilar business to we were doing under Bowyer. Spending relatively small amounts on young players who would develop and become worth more.

 

30 minutes ago, meadows said:

I hope Bolton stay up. If we go up it's a Derby. I know it's a Derby if we stay down & they go down but I don't really wish them any Ill-fortune. If nothing else they provided a textbook example of how to bounce back despite financial strife which means Mowbray ought to have no excuse. Their problem - and in fairness the chairman made it perfectly clear to the fans in advance - was that not only would there be nothing to spend this season, there would also have to be swingeing cuts and even at this early stage it seems unlikely they won't come straight back down. 

Apparently under the terms of their embargo they have been limited to one in-one out with arrivals on a maximum of £4,500 per week. With that sort of restriction on arrivals I think anyone would struggle massively, but for Bolton they arguably now have a weaker squad than the one that won promotion last season, or certainly not significantly stronger. Makes our and Mowbray's resources look like PSG.

At least their manager had a formula to grind out the results every week in this league even with meagre resources. I'm not yet convinced that Mowbray possesses such a plan.

[RevidgeBlue]

2 hours ago, JHRover said:

Birmingham's decision to give Rowett the boot as they were just outside the play-offs last season looking like being the poor decision most thought it would be. Zola nearly took them down and now Redknapp has left them 2nd bottom having spent a fair amount in the window. Be nice to see them and Bolton come down.

Redknapp came on Talksport within 10 minutes of being sacked Saturday and was bright as a button, so obviously wasn't too distraught at getting sacked.

In one breath he said the reason they struggled is that the players he inherited weren't good enough and they couldnt get anyone in over summer. In the next breath he said they brought in FOURTEEN  (One four) players two days before the end of the transfer window and he'd only had a week to work with them!

Rowett didn't seem to have too much trouble getting a tune out of the players Redknapp thought werent good enough.

Good when he gets it right but can be very dangerous for the health of your Club can our 'arry.

[K-Hod]

Especially the financial health of clubs...