Manager or Players to blame?

[martonrover]

Manager. It's his team, in the main, and the buck stops with him.

There appears to be too many weak links in the squad to be hopeful of anything more than the Play Offs.

[RV Blue]

On 14/10/2017 at 19:37, arbitro said:

Even before the season started the more knowledgeable Rovers fans saw the need for an ugly, raw boned centre half who would kick and head anything.

There are numerous different reasons why I believe that Mowbray is thick, but this is right up there. We were crying out for someone like that who would have been perfect playing next to Mulgrew (especially after Lenihan's injury), but Mowbray thought that Ward was a capable partner for Mulgrew, absolutely clueless.

Other reasons (off the top of my head) are; playing Feeney on the left, bringing on Mahoney for Bennett when 1-0 against Preston, signing Whittingham, telling the press that we did zero preparation for a 1st team game (where fans paid money to go and see), and taking Dack off against Gillingham.

[NinjaTattoo]

1 hour ago, MarkBRFC said:

How do you put fear into the modern day player?

Fine them, drop them, bench them but most of all give them a right f**king rollocking at half time.

Fergie did it and I dare say other managers do it.

Did you see the Alan Shearer interview, he wanted to fine the players upto 50% which tbf is alot and he couldn't implement it due to the FA cry babies but the idea of it should be implemented.

 

https://youtu.be/UozlUpQQJpc

Edited October 17, 2017 by NinjaTattoo

[roverstdt]

I think a bit of both. Unfortunately I see us as the Sunderland of the Championship. What I mean by that is no club in the UK has gone through what we have in the last 7 years. We have had a losing mentality across all this period of time. I think more importantly we need someone who can actually slowly breed confidence and create a long term strategy. Bowyer did stabilise the boat but we still had a large influx and outflux of players. Right now this club needs stability more than anything. Are our results anything to brag about? No. But I am conscious win our two games in hand we are just 5 or 6 points behind the leaders and back in the play which isn't horrible. We will grow and get stronger as time goes by. 

[rigger]

For me it's the players. They should have enough pride in themselves, that the don't lose their personal battle against the opposition player. The only one that looks anywhere near close to doing that is Smallwood, hence he had become a crowd favourite.  

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Rigger has it right. Forget all the fancy systems, when you cross that white line the thought uppermost in your mind should be that the player you're directly playing against will be wishing he'd never bothered getting changed. Win the individual battles all over the pitch and you'll win the game.

[tomphil]

Teams who haven't been paid for a month or two are over running us from start to finish and showing the heart for battle missing in some of our lot.

The lack of real desire and urgency you need in every game if you crave promotion just doesn't seem to be evident in anything apart from words. All to often it just seems to be a shrug of the shoulders 'oh it's not happening today but it might tomorrow' type attitude. It was the same last season though, soft underbelly and weak management for so long it's now in every fibre of the club, keep your head down, mouth shut and pick up your wages.

 

[rigger]

I just heard Tony Mowbray on the radio saying that teams we are playing against are raising their games when they are faced with our away followings. It would seem that the only team not raising their game is the Rovers. Surely he can see that and must put it right.

Edited October 17, 2017 by rigger

[MCMC1875]

"Such a great club ruined by dark business" M Salgado 2011.

Edited October 18, 2017 by MCMC1875

[Oldgregg86]

20 hours ago, rigger said:

I just heard Tony Mowbray on the radio saying that teams we are playing against are raising their games when they are faced with our away followings. It would seem that the only team not raising their game is the Rovers. Surely he can see that and must put it right.

Blaming the fans again 

[Dreams of 1995]

Are either solely to blame? I know who ultimately is to blame for this.

Simply put the manager isn't good enough; the players aren't good enough; the coaches aren't good enough; the club isn't good enough. Yet whilst they share a portion of blame to as why we are in the position we are in ultimately they aren't to blame. It isn't their fault they aren't good enough but it is the clubs fault that it has sunk to the levels that we employ mediocrity. We are undoubtedly one of the laughing stocks of English football right now - I know who is to blame for that.

I grew up watching Tugay, Duff, Dunn, Friedel and Nelsen. I saw players come and go like Bellamy, Santa Cruz, McCarthy. We had cult heroes like the Axe, Kuqi, Big Andy Todd and co. Before that my dad had Shearer, Garner, Hendry & co. Before that my grandad saw Douglas & Clayton. My younger nephews and brother have seen Stokes, Murphy, Lowe, Hanley and Duffy. I know who is to blame for that.

I saw us win the League Cup in Cardiff. I did see us get relegated (prior to Venkys, I've seen three now) but I saw a team that wanted to bounce back. Before that my dad saw us win the league, was there for the famous Full Members Cup day. My younger nephews and brother have seen three relegations and a nearly win vs Liverpool in the cup. I know who is to blame for that.

Rovers has been in my family for generations and each generation has something to shout about. We had bad times like anyone but the good times were never out of reach. My family has been on the terraces of Rovers since the Great War. However, my nephews and brother, they have known nothing but bad. It is horrible to not see them have the same love as I had for the club at their age and, whilst it may also be a symptom of a change in attitudes, I can't see them ever sticking with Rovers the way in which I have.

And I certainly know who is to blame for that.

[HowieFive0]

Players for me. British footballers ? Useless. Even in the Premier League now ...  good British footballers are few and far between (look at the national teams). Start dropping Leagues and the standard is shocking. Tactics are wasted on most because they simply cant do the basics. Again any team in this league can lose a game and then win one and imo its just a lottery in certain games who will win.Managers cant make a silk purse out of a sows ear but thats what most in this league are having to try and do, some will get lucky but the majority wont and yes i do believe a lot is luck in this league.

Dreams of 1995 named a few players he grew up watching  ... well over half are foreign ..says it all to me.

[Dreams of 1995]

11 hours ago, HowieFive0 said:

Players for me. British footballers ? Useless. Even in the Premier League now ...  good British footballers are few and far between (look at the national teams). Start dropping Leagues and the standard is shocking. Tactics are wasted on most because they simply cant do the basics. Again any team in this league can lose a game and then win one and imo its just a lottery in certain games who will win.Managers cant make a silk purse out of a sows ear but thats what most in this league are having to try and do, some will get lucky but the majority wont and yes i do believe a lot is luck in this league.

Dreams of 1995 named a few players he grew up watching  ... well over half are foreign ..says it all to me.

I'd say the general consensus in football is that lower league standards have dramatically increased over the past 10 years due to foreign imports. I wouldn't say our national footballers have suddenly all gone sour, rather they simply aren't given as many chances at top level.

[Mercer]

15 hours ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Are either solely to blame? I know who ultimately is to blame for this.

Simply put the manager isn't good enough; the players aren't good enough; the coaches aren't good enough; the club isn't good enough. Yet whilst they share a portion of blame to as why we are in the position we are in ultimately they aren't to blame. It isn't their fault they aren't good enough but it is the clubs fault that it has sunk to the levels that we employ mediocrity. We are undoubtedly one of the laughing stocks of English football right now - I know who is to blame for that.

I grew up watching Tugay, Duff, Dunn, Friedel and Nelsen. I saw players come and go like Bellamy, Santa Cruz, McCarthy. We had cult heroes like the Axe, Kuqi, Big Andy Todd and co. Before that my dad had Shearer, Garner, Hendry & co. Before that my grandad saw Douglas & Clayton. My younger nephews and brother have seen Stokes, Murphy, Lowe, Hanley and Duffy. I know who is to blame for that.

I saw us win the League Cup in Cardiff. I did see us get relegated (prior to Venkys, I've seen three now) but I saw a team that wanted to bounce back. Before that my dad saw us win the league, was there for the famous Full Members Cup day. My younger nephews and brother have seen three relegations and a nearly win vs Liverpool in the cup. I know who is to blame for that.

Rovers has been in my family for generations and each generation has something to shout about. We had bad times like anyone but the good times were never out of reach. My family has been on the terraces of Rovers since the Great War. However, my nephews and brother, they have known nothing but bad. It is horrible to not see them have the same love as I had for the club at their age and, whilst it may also be a symptom of a change in attitudes, I can't see them ever sticking with Rovers the way in which I have.

And I certainly know who is to blame for that.

Spot on.

To Dougie and Clayton, you can add illustrious names such as Fred Pickering, Mike England and Keith Newton - the three were class acts and it was a privilege to see them in the blue and white halves.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, Mercer said:

Spot on.

To Dougie and Clayton, you can add illustrious names such as Fred Pickering, Mike England and Keith Newton - the three were class acts and it was a privilege to see them in the blue and white halves.

I remember waiting at that bus stop near Bill Eckersley's shop to get autographs on match days. Fred Pickering, Keith Newton and Mike England all got off the bus together and I got all three autographs. No Ferrari's or Bentley's for them, just a seat on a Corporation bus if they were lucky, I supposed they had to pay as well !

At that time only Ronnie and Bryan had cars.

Edited October 19, 2017 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[dinglebasher]

On 17/10/2017 at 13:08, RV Blue said:

There are numerous different reasons why I believe that Mowbray is thick, but this is right up there. We were crying out for someone like that who would have been perfect playing next to Mulgrew (especially after Lenihan's injury), but Mowbray thought that Ward was a capable partner for Mulgrew, absolutely clueless.

 

That's absolute nonsense, Ward is our fifth choice centre half. 

1. Mulgrew

2. Lenihan - injured

3. Downing - injured

4. Wharton - injured

5. Ward

The stats tell you that we have the 3rd in terms of goals conceded in the division but only 16th on goals scored. If the strikers had done their job in several games this season we'd be in the top two. If you're 2-0 up at half time in this league, the game is over, but we always make ourselves vulnerable by failing to finish teams off.

Blame who you want for the current situation (which I personally don't believe is that bad, given we are only two points off the play offs with two games in hand) but let's not ignore the facts.

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, dinglebasher said:

That's absolute nonsense, Ward is our fifth choice centre half. 

1. Mulgrew

2. Lenihan - injured

3. Downing - injured

4. Wharton - injured

5. Ward

The stats tell you that we have the 3rd in terms of goals conceded in the division but only 16th on goals scored. If the strikers had done their job in several games this season we'd be in the top two. If you're 2-0 up at half time in this league, the game is over, but we always make ourselves vulnerable by failing to finish teams off.

Blame who you want for the current situation (which I personally don't believe is that bad, given we are only two points off the play offs with two games in hand) but let's not ignore the facts.

 

The game's not over for us at 2-0 up because we can't defend a lead.

[Blue blood]

6 hours ago, dinglebasher said:

That's absolute nonsense, Ward is our fifth choice centre half. 

1. Mulgrew

2. Lenihan - injured

3. Downing - injured

4. Wharton - injured

5. Ward

The stats tell you that we have the 3rd in terms of goals conceded in the division but only 16th on goals scored. If the strikers had done their job in several games this season we'd be in the top two. If you're 2-0 up at half time in this league, the game is over, but we always make ourselves vulnerable by failing to finish teams off.

Blame who you want for the current situation (which I personally don't believe is that bad, given we are only two points off the play offs with two games in hand) but let's not ignore the facts.

 

Bit of selective facts going on there. 

Firstly Warton hasn't been anywhere near third choice cb. On what evidence do you say that? He's not played as 3rd choice, he's not been talked up as 3rd choice in interviews. In fact in a recent interview bemoaning interviews TM didn't mention him at all. 

Secondly Downing. Downing has got above Ward in the pecking order but that's more to Ward being dire than the initial intention. Several things suggest this to me - from firstly Ward playing initially when Downing first came, through to Downing being a deadline day signing and it not seeming like a priority position to fill based on interviews and the volume of players signed in other positions.  

As for not that bad I'd agree it's not that bad, but given our resources, wages, transfer spend, players we retained, it's not that good either. Our context suggests top 2. And either via performances or recruitment it seems like TM has mucked that up. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Downing only played in the first place when Champagne Charlie was injured playing for Scotland.

[tomphil]

Worth noting he was playing Ward above Downing at times and probably would have done at Oldham regardless of who was fit apart fron Darragh.

He's a tinkermon !

Edited October 19, 2017 by tomphil

[blueboy3333]

I think we can put this one to bed now in the knowledge that it really was Mowbray's negativity and tactical tinkering all along that caused our early season jitters. Now the team is more settled and the players know what they are meant to be doing we seem to be reaping the rewards.

I'm delighted Mogga quickly found a way to get the best squad in the division firing on most cylinders.

 

[blueboy3333]

"We could have played until next week and not scored a goal, the creativity was really poor and the movement of the players at the top end of the pitch was really poor. We can’t keep a clean sheet every week and scrape a win, we have to be a better football team than that and we weren’t.  I thought the defence got bullied a little bit, their strikers gave us problems and we didn’t give them any. Ultimately we got what we deserved" - Mowbray

This is a quote from the LT article in the first post of this thread. It's amazing how little the team has changed in 18 months - apart from the fact we never keep a clean sheet anymore. 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 10, 2019 by blueboy3333

[JHRover]

Mowbray's comments come across as though he's some powerless bystander or he has just walked into the building and is having to work through with someone else's failing squad.

We are led to believe that Mowbray has final say on footballing matters and it appears he has far more power at the club than most modern day managers or coaches who have to contend with sporting directors etc. There's none of that here, Mowbray enjoys the benefits of being the boss but also has nowhere to hide when it comes to responsibility. Recruitment, coaching, fitness all under his watch, nobody else's.

[Miller11]

There is one constant in our dramatic fall over the better part of the last decade. It’s not on the pitch or in the dugout, it’s four and a half thousand miles away. Problems have a root cause.

[JacknOry]

We cannot defend to save our life but still set up in order to do so. Why not just let the leash off for the rest of the season and have a go at teams? Just a thought because we're not really picking up many points despite trying our best to counter Barcelona, Munich, Madrid, Milan or whoever is next the team to get bigged up by TM.