World Cup 2018

[roverandout]

50 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

 

 

All of them are good players - none are out of the top drawer or "world class".

An therein lies the explanation of why England will always fail

Er kane is pretty close to world class..in the top 5 strikers in the world

[jim mk2]

 

Scoring alot of goals in the Premier League doesn't make Kane "world class"

[speeeeeeedie]

1 hour ago, roverandout said:

Er kane is pretty close to world class..in the top 5 strikers in the world

As Jim says, he scores lots of Premier League goals but until he proves it for England I'll not consider him world class. I've still not forgotten how bad he was at the last Euros.

[roverandout]

He scored lots in champions league too also more than a goal every other game for england..euros was a washout because of hodgson

[chaddyrovers]

13 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

 

Scoring alot of goals in the Premier League doesn't make Kane "world class"

Plus 7 champions league goals in 7 games plus 24 premier league goals in 29 games. Thats this season. Plus links with Bayern and Real Madrid who 2 out of the 3 biggest clubs in the World. Barcelona being the other. 

Plus 12 goals in 23 games for England including important goal against Scotland away, goal against France away and double against Germany away

 

Edited March 25, 2018 by chaddyrovers

[jim mk2]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Plus 7 champions league goals in 7 games plus 24 premier league goals in 29 games. Thats this season. Plus links with Bayern and Real Madrid who 2 out of the 3 biggest clubs in the World. Barcelona being the other. 

Plus 12 goals in 23 games for England including important goal against Scotland away.

 

Sorry, still doesn't cut it. 

[chaddyrovers]

4 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Sorry, still doesn't cut it. 

Very deluded that Jim. 

One of the best strikers in the World, best English striker by miles and 7 goals in 7 Champions League plus an outstanding Premier League record year after year but still not world class. Very deluded 

[jim mk2]

Kane's a very good player but "world class" (an overused term anyway) refers to the very best players - the likes of Messi,  Ronaldo, Iniesta etc.etc.  Kane isn't in their league and still has it all to prove at the very highest level

 

[chaddyrovers]

No one will ever be in Messi and Ronaldo league or level. These are 2 very talented players who are greats of the modern era. 

Kane isnt a great of the game. But never said he was tho. 

 

[roversfan99]

15 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Decent? You are having a laugh. It was really good competence performance. 

I don't know how you can have a go at Southgate after that performance when all players that started understood their role, played well and proved that they can play in 3-4-1-2 formation despite your argument they cant. didn't look fluent enough going forward?  is this joke or something? 

I disagree on the lack of depth in the England squad. Also disagree on Dier who would the 2nd name on my teamsheet after Harry Kane who would be my captain and vice captain(Dier). 

What problems at Centre back? Look at the depth we have. I will name these players, starting who my back 3 would be:- Dier, Stones, Maguire, Jones, Gomez, Smalling, Cahill, Mawson, Tarwolski. Plus Walker look good enough as centre back in a 3 man team. 

Midfield:- Henderson played well yesterday and probably played himself into the starting 11. Wilshere is a must if fit. Oxlade Chamberlain is playing well in centre midfield for Liverpool. I would take Lewis Cook who is form for Bournemouth. Ali is playing poor for Spurs atm and last night was awful. probably played himself out of the starting line up. Plus Sterling, Lingard and Lallana. 

Strikers:- Kane, Rashford and Vardy are automatic choices for 3 of the 4 spots. the other spot is wide open and whether you want to take a extra defender and use Dier as midfielder, or take extra centre midfielder(Livermore) and use Sterling as a striker which is very tempting at the minute, Or take Welbeck or Sturridge. 

Id love to know how different decent and competence are in your mind.

My doubts on Southgate are not based on yesterday, please dont take my comments out of context. Hes not a good manager based on his CV. I dont feel he knows his best 11 either, I think thats a valid criticism, theres so much uncertainty. Hes also got faith in some players such as Livermore who ill come onto which is crazy.

I do give him credit for attempting to create some sort of identity, the 3 at the back at the passing it out, whether we have the players to do it v the big teams, id certainly doubt but to be fair it is brave.

How can you argue against the lack of fluidity in attack. We dont create many clear cut chances, weve scored I think 3 in 5, and in attack we have many players, Kane, Vardy, Rahford, Sterling, Alli, Lingard etc all have such good numbers, goals and assists for their clubs that youd think we could get plenty of goals for England.

If Eric Dier is 2nd on your team sheet then id hate to see the 9 after that, definitely have him in the squad but hes so average.

Lack of depth point, I think wing back and front 3, we look strong even beyond first choice. Goalkeeper theres a big problem as none of them have made the shirt their own, I'd go with Pickford and not even consider taking Hart, that said I dont feel that Southgate knows his best keeper. Centre back, only Stones (whose in poor form and out of Citys team) and Maguire I am 100% on, Ive no idea what Joe Gomez has done to become first choice, and many of the others you mention are steady Prem players at low clubs, but they are a step down from the first 2. The most obvious lack of depth is in central midfield. Henderson and Wilshire are the best 2, both flawed and injury prone. Beneath that, theres Dier, and then the well runs dry. Chamberlain is out of position playing in a central 2, dont remember him playing there for his club, Cook again id probably take but hes a big step down in quality, then theres nothing really.

You suggest taking Livermore, can you please tell me what he offers to England? 

 

[speeeeeeedie]

15 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

I would say Kane is world class. 

Greece won the Euros and the they had no world class players

 

10 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

No one will ever be in Messi and Ronaldo league or level. These are 2 very talented players who are greats of the modern era. 

Kane isnt a great of the game. But never said he was tho. 

 

I'll argue that your top quote says that you did.

Anyway, I really hope that Kane shines this summer. If he does then England will do well and he'll banish the horror show of 2 years ago. He is an impressive player in the Shearer mould but not as good. His physical strength has improved as has his finishing. He's not much of an aerial threat but Spurs don't really play that way. 

Southgate needs to get his side picked. These friendlies will hopefully bring some clarity. Is Wilshere out for good? Him missing these 2 games won't help his cause.

[jim mk2]

25 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

No one will ever be in Messi and Ronaldo league or level. These are 2 very talented players who are greats of the modern era. 

Kane isnt a great of the game. But never said he was tho. 

 

 

Yes, so they are "world class" in the true sense of the term. You can't get any higher. Kane is on a lower level, so he isn't world class.

I'm glad we cleared that up. 

[Hasta]

16 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

I disagree on the lack of depth in the England squad. Also disagree on Dier who would the 2nd name on my teamsheet after Harry Kane who would be my captain and vice captain(Dier). 

What problems at Centre back? Look at the depth we have. I will name these players, starting who my back 3 would be:- Dier, Stones, Maguire, Jones, Gomez, Smalling, Cahill, Mawson, Tarwolski. Plus Walker look good enough as centre back in a 3 man team. 

Midfield:- Henderson played well yesterday and probably played himself into the starting 11. Wilshere is a must if fit. Oxlade Chamberlain is playing well in centre midfield for Liverpool. I would take Lewis Cook who is form for Bournemouth. Ali is playing poor for Spurs atm and last night was awful. probably played himself out of the starting line up. Plus Sterling, Lingard and Lallana. 

Strikers:- Kane, Rashford and Vardy are automatic choices for 3 of the 4 spots. the other spot is wide open and whether you want to take a extra defender and use Dier as midfielder, or take extra centre midfielder(Livermore) and use Sterling as a striker which is very tempting at the minute, Or take Welbeck or Sturridge. 

It's not a lack of depth in the English squad, it's simply a lack of talent. You look at the list of people other than Kane and possibly Sterling and you don't see the giants of the game queuing up to bring them in as first team players. There's a very good Premier League team to be built from that squad but it looks far from a side that could claim to be the best in the world. Fortunately sport doesn't work that way and, as you say, Greece can grind out major trophy wins with a group of workhorses. However England would tactically need to be set up impeccably.  Not sure the coaching staff are that good unfortunately.

Edited March 25, 2018 by Hasta

[chaddyrovers]

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Id love to know how different decent and competence are in your mind.

My doubts on Southgate are not based on yesterday, please dont take my comments out of context. Hes not a good manager based on his CV. I dont feel he knows his best 11 either, I think thats a valid criticism, theres so much uncertainty. Hes also got faith in some players such as Livermore who ill come onto which is crazy.

I do give him credit for attempting to create some sort of identity, the 3 at the back at the passing it out, whether we have the players to do it v the big teams, id certainly doubt but to be fair it is brave.

How can you argue against the lack of fluidity in attack. We dont create many clear cut chances, weve scored I think 3 in 5, and in attack we have many players, Kane, Vardy, Rahford, Sterling, Alli, Lingard etc all have such good numbers, goals and assists for their clubs that youd think we could get plenty of goals for England.

If Eric Dier is 2nd on your team sheet then id hate to see the 9 after that, definitely have him in the squad but hes so average.

Lack of depth point, I think wing back and front 3, we look strong even beyond first choice. Goalkeeper theres a big problem as none of them have made the shirt their own, I'd go with Pickford and not even consider taking Hart, that said I dont feel that Southgate knows his best keeper. Centre back, only Stones (whose in poor form and out of Citys team) and Maguire I am 100% on, Ive no idea what Joe Gomez has done to become first choice, and many of the others you mention are steady Prem players at low clubs, but they are a step down from the first 2. The most obvious lack of depth is in central midfield. Henderson and Wilshire are the best 2, both flawed and injury prone. Beneath that, theres Dier, and then the well runs dry. Chamberlain is out of position playing in a central 2, dont remember him playing there for his club, Cook again id probably take but hes a big step down in quality, then theres nothing really.

You suggest taking Livermore, can you please tell me what he offers to England? 

 

Not interest in the Southgate's CV, more interest in how he does as England manager and nothing else. 

i'm pleased he has a system and willing to do something different. so far it works. 

ive told you who my team would be before so don't be clever. 

I agree we have depth in wing backs, keeper, Front 3 and centre back. I think Pickford will be first choice, Stones was first choice until he got injured. Chamberlain plays in centre midfield for Liverpool in a 3 man midfield. I would take Lewis Cook, he was quality for the under 20's and was captain. 

I suggest taking Livermore as 5th choice, but it is the last place in the squad, and whether it would be centre back or another striker. Livermore is a player Southgate likes, not a player I like really. 

 

2 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

 

Yes, so they are "world class" in the true sense of the term. You can't get any higher. Kane is on a lower level, so he isn't world class.

I'm glad we cleared that up. 

we clear nothing up so don't be arrogant Jim. Messi and Ronaldo are in a complete different world to any other footballers Ive seen in my life time. Ronaldoinho was very good but not never Messi or Ronaldo level.

Kane is a world class striker, Messi and Ronaldo are greats of the game like Pele, Maradona, Bobby Charlton and  

1 hour ago, Hasta said:

It's not a lack of depth in the English squad, it's simply a lack of talent. You look at the list of people other than Kane and possibly Sterling and you don't see the giants of the game queuing up to bring them in as first team players. There's a very good Premier League team to be built from that squad but it looks far from a side that could claim to be the best in the world. Fortunately sport doesn't work that way and, as you say, Greece can grind out major trophy wins with a group of workhorses. However England would tactically need to be set up impeccably.  Not sure the coaching staff are that good unfortunately.

I seen plenty of talent footballers, look at the success of the under 21's, 20's and 19's. The footballers are there, just need their club managers to belief in them

[roversfan99]

40 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Not interest in the Southgate's CV, more interest in how he does as England manager and nothing else. 

i'm pleased he has a system and willing to do something different. so far it works. 

ive told you who my team would be before so don't be clever. 

I agree we have depth in wing backs, keeper, Front 3 and centre back. I think Pickford will be first choice, Stones was first choice until he got injured. Chamberlain plays in centre midfield for Liverpool in a 3 man midfield. I would take Lewis Cook, he was quality for the under 20's and was captain. 

I suggest taking Livermore as 5th choice, but it is the last place in the squad, and whether it would be centre back or another striker. Livermore is a player Southgate likes, not a player I like really. 

 

we clear nothing up so don't be arrogant Jim. Messi and Ronaldo are in a complete different world to any other footballers Ive seen in my life time. Ronaldoinho was very good but not never Messi or Ronaldo level.

Kane is a world class striker, Messi and Ronaldo are greats of the game like Pele, Maradona, Bobby Charlton and  

I seen plenty of talent footballers, look at the success of the under 21's, 20's and 19's. The footballers are there, just need their club managers to belief in them

My point was that history suggest that the likelihood is that he will be unable to reach expectations as a manager, hence why people are so dubious of him, no idea how he got the job.

Your point on Livermore is crazy. It suggests that all of your opinions are not your own, you are second guessing Southgate. If you dont rate Livermore then why do you think he should be in the squad?!

[robbojohnno]

Chris Coleman had a crap CV but got a tune out of Wales. If he can give the players an identity and get rid of the fear factor in tournaments he could surprise a few. I personally wasn't happy at all with his appointment but think he has some useful attributes for international football management.

[Mike E]

7 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Plus 7 champions league goals in 7 games plus 24 premier league goals in 29 games. Thats this season. Plus links with Bayern and Real Madrid who 2 out of the 3 biggest clubs in the World. Barcelona being the other. 

Plus 12 goals in 23 games for England including important goal against Scotland away, goal against France away and double against Germany away

 

That doesn't make him World Class. Doing that every season for at least 10 years will.

[roverandout]

7 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

Kane's a very good player but "world class" (an overused term anyway) refers to the very best players - the likes of Messi,  Ronaldo, Iniesta etc.etc.  Kane isn't in their league and still has it all to prove at the very highest level

 

Messi's record at major tournaments is extremely poor so by your reckoning then messi cant be wordclass.

[chaddyrovers]

4 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

My point was that history suggest that the likelihood is that he will be unable to reach expectations as a manager, hence why people are so dubious of him, no idea how he got the job.

Your point on Livermore is crazy. It suggests that all of your opinions are not your own, you are second guessing Southgate. If you dont rate Livermore then why do you think he should be in the squad?!

The Germany coach Low had a very poor CV before he got the Germany job. So did Coleman before Wales job. 

What are your expectations for Southgate then? 

His target for world cup is second round or Quarter final he done ok/good. Semi final or final then excellent and beyond expectations. 

Southgate like Livermore and you got to take that into consider when picking your squad. I wouldnt take him but an extra centre back or striker.

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, Mike E said:

That doesn't make him World Class. Doing that every season for at least 10 years will.

How long he been doing now? 3 or 4 years?

 

[Rover_Shaun]

1 hour ago, roverandout said:

Messi's record at major tournaments is extremely poor so by your reckoning then messi cant be wordclass.

Major tournament = champions league

Far far superior standard to the 'nearly everyone qualifies' world cup. Even more so when it goes to a 556 team tournament.

 

[roversfan99]

43 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

Southgate like Livermore and you got to take that into consider when picking your squad. I wouldnt take him but an extra centre back or striker.

No it doesnt! You are picking the squad that YOU would take, so you dont consider it at all. I wouldnt have him anywhere near, and if he does IN MY OPINION itd be a mistake.

[Butty]

My starting line up for Russia if everyone's fit: Pope, Walker, Maguire, Stones, Bertrand/Rose at the back. I think Pope has clearly done better than Hart this season that is without question, and Butland and Pickford have made way more mistakes. We've got to build for the future like Ze Germans did in 2006. They won the World Cup in 2010 and although he's a dingle I think that he deserves a chance, it's about time England teams were picked on player rather than the club they play for. Midfield I'd have Dier and Wilshere holding. Dier is a no brainer and for me although he probably won't be fit on his day you'd have Wilshere over Henderson or Livermore all day. Henderson is a fraud. 3 behind the striker Sterling Alli and Rashford. Speaks for itself really. Kane up top. Say no more. Just like us, the mighty 4-2-3- 1 Chaddy loves too hate. As with any tournament I have zero faith in England but that would be my lineup. Interested to see how others on here would line us up in Russia. 

[chaddyrovers]

Southgate has said he will play 3 at the back in the world cup so pointless picking a different formation. 

[chaddyrovers]

I pick Cahill and Smalling in my team but it looks like Southgate wont pick either. 

Maguire is a good player and deserve to start the world cup after the Holland game. Who start right centre back im undecide yet.