World Cup 2018

[RevidgeBlue]

16 hours ago, HowieFive0 said:

What England did last night was nothing different than clubs resting players in the early rounds of the FA Cup /Check A Trade .Even better guaranteed into the next round !

Could have played our first eleven .and still got beat ..picked up injuries ..cards etc  and Southgate would have been crucified again.

I bet Shrewsbury wished they d sacrificed the Check A Trade like we did ..

It is a little bit similar but leaving the Checkatrade trophy aside the name of the game for Premier League Clubs in the early rounds of the FA Cup and League Cup is to balance the desire to make changes with the over-riding need to win the game and hopefully see a half decent performance from players who should be knocking on the door to break into the starting eleven.

Southgate managed neither and in my view thereby made it far more likely that we'll go out earlier than if he hadn't made so many changes and/or attempted to get cute about who we may or may not play further down the line.

[perthblue02]

7 hours ago, 47er said:

Don't know if anyone has posted this, apologies if so but 3 ex-Rovers selected for this World Cup---Jones, Kalinc and N'Zonzi. Kalinic got sent home before it began unfortunately, N'Zonzi played in France's third game.

Echoes of what we were.

Four, Jamie Maclaren , did not play in any games despite Australia's abysmal efforts in front of goal 

Edit: oops on re-reading you said selected which  presume you meant played

Edited June 30, 2018 by perthblue02

[gumboots]

Totally with you again Rev. Changes yes but wholesale no. To start with it disrupts play too much. Sides that don't normally play together have to work much harder. But the main thing is that where does Southgate go if we go out to Colombia. Especially if as expected, the Belgians beat Japan really easily. He's left himself almost no wriggle room especially with pundits and press who were already critic last week. His bosses might not sack him but the press will turn I feel

[RevidgeBlue]

1 hour ago, gumboots said:

Totally with you again Rev. Changes yes but wholesale no. To start with it disrupts play too much. Sides that don't normally play together have to work much harder. But the main thing is that where does Southgate go if we go out to Colombia. Especially if as expected, the Belgians beat Japan really easily. He's left himself almost no wriggle room especially with pundits and press who were already critic last week. His bosses might not sack him but the press will turn I feel

It's funny how quick managers are to wheel out the "the players are low on confidence" excuse whenever things are going badly yet when the argument suits it appears that that isn't even a consideration!

 

[Paul]

3 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

It is a little bit similar but leaving the Checkatrade trophy aside the name of the game for Premier League Clubs in the early rounds of the FA Cup and League Cup is to balance the desire to make changes with the over-riding need to win the game and hopefully see a half decent performance from players who should be knocking on the door to break into the starting eleven.

Southgate managed neither and in my view thereby made it far more likely that we'll go out earlier than if he hadn't made so many changes and/or attempted to get cute about who we may or may not play further down the line.

I think this is very true the problem being though from what I've seen the first choice England side are no better than a mid to low table PL side. We lack quality, creativity, imagination and excitment. Ask yourself where all these qualities come from in the PL? The side Southgate put out against Belgium was extremely poor, lacked any spark and had no idea how to win the game. Changing any winning side is a serious managerial error.

What I've seen of the World Cup so far has provided some exciting entertaining matches, England haven't featured in one of those. If Colombia score first they will win as England lack the guile to create quality opportunities. If we can stop Colombia scoring we might nick it but I don't have any real expectation of this.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

6 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

It's not the fact our reserves lost to the Belgian reserves per se, Southgate was probably entitled to make some changes but a modest 3 or 4 changes at most and giving Kane an hour to keep him revved up and hopefully scoring would have probably sufficed to enable us to get the minimum point we needed, top the group, keep the momentum going, and land Japan in the last 16.

You seem to be completely incapable of grasping why I'm so hopping mad about this, for me we had every chance of reaching the quarter finals, now because of all the shenanigans and landing ourselves a far more difficult game in the last 16. I think It's far more likely than not we'll go out at that stage instead.

I accept that if we do beat Colombia convincingly  then navigate the quarter final then Southgate suddenly looks like a genius and I'd have to come on here and say it worked, but by the same token, will you come on and admit he made a catastrophic miscalculation if we get knocked out?

Ironically one of the changes I would have made he didn't. I would definitely have given the back up keeper 90 minutes or even both of them 45 mins each. We Don't want another 1970 Banks/Bonetti type situation if anything happens to Pickford.

Pickford's not in the same class as Bonetti. He was a top class keeper who unfortunately will alway be remembered for having the worst game of his life in that England v West Germany game.

[philipl]

Two tasty fixtures today with four teams on paper capable of winning the World Cup.

Also a big Europe v South America showdown and the two worst managers with the best squads (Argentina and France) going head to head.

Expecting Ronaldo tears- whether of frustration facing arguably the best defender, pain from being kicked thumped and pinched, elimination or elation- let's see. Incidentally Ronaldo has been timed as the fastest runner of all the players at this World Cup- not a facet of his game many think of.

My tips: France to have too much for Messi and Uruguay too much for Ronaldo BUT both of those individuals can lift their countries into the quarter finals if today is their day. 

 

Edited June 30, 2018 by philipl

[RV Blue]

Reaction on here (and in the press) to the England game has been pathetic. Like Kane et al. are going to go out on Tuesday low on confidence after the first two games because they saw Belgium reserves sneak a win against our reserves in what can only be described as a friendly. Every man and his dog would have taken beating Colombia and Sweden/Switzerland to get to the semis before the tournament started. It is no surprise to anyone who knows what they are talking about that the odds for us to win the whole thing shortened after that defeat.

Edited June 30, 2018 by RV Blue

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, RV Blue said:

Reaction on here (and in the press) to the England game has been pathetic. Like Kane et al. are going to go out on Tuesday low on confidence after the first two games because they saw Belgium reserves sneak a win against our reserves in what can only be described as a friendly. Every man and his dog would have taken beating Colombia and Sweden/Switzerland to get to the semis before the tournament started. It is no surprise to anyone who know what they are talking about that the odds for us to win the whole thing shortened after that defeat.

The more teams go out the shorter the odds on any team still in it will get. I would have thought that was a given. I'd take Spain, France, Brazil, Portugal, Uruguay all to beat England and plenty of the other teams left in it give us a real game.

At lot will depend on the conditions. If it's a night match in a cool climate and we can up the tempo of our game we have a chance. If it's a hot afternoon game and we play our usual style of " walking football " we've had it.

I think it's significant that in the years since we adopted the " keep ball " style of football we haven't looked like winning anything. 

[Audax]

England's match is the last one,  watch how the above words look when we see England win on Tuesday.

Yes, Colombia is the better team versus Japan but Japan defeated them. Opening game jitters I suppose is a good excuse. Japan might really have a top plan for Belgium.

And this gloominess, against a team, Colombia, that was a dark horse to win it all last time and went out in a game I find questionably officiated and only to see who they lost to, Brazil, get throttled next by Germany.

-----

Argentina is a banana peel for France. France should be able to take it.

Ronaldo's tears? We should remember this as well, Portugal to take it.

It's clear, all of these teams to have a lot of potential,  Argentina a bit questionable against a solid team.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 30, 2018 by Audax

[RV Blue]

8 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

The more teams go out the shorter the odds on any team still in it will get. I would have thought that was a given. I'd take Spain, France, Brazil, Portugal, Uruguay all to beat England and plenty of the other teams left in it give us a real game.

Prior to the Belgium game we knew who were going through and who were going home, the Belgium game only decided which side of the draw we’d be going on. The bookies shortened the odds for us to win the cup when they realised that we’d be going on the Colombia side of the draw. From a maximising our chances of doing well point of view, Southgate made the correct decision. It would have been much easier for him to chuck the first team out against Belgium but he didn’t and I respect him for that.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, RV Blue said:

Prior to the Belgium game we knew who were going through and who were going home, the Belgium game only decided which side of the draw we’d be going on. The bookies shortened the odds for us to win the cup when they realised that we’d be going on the Colombia side of the draw. From a maximising our chances of doing well point of view, Southgate made the correct decision. It would have been much easier for him to chuck the first team out against Belgium but he didn’t and I respect him for that.

If we were playing Japan next presumably the odds would be shorter still ?

[RV Blue]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

If we were playing Japan next presumably the odds would be shorter still ?

They think it’s and easier route to the final overall. We’ve got two winnable games to get to the Semis, if we played Japan next we’d most likely be playing Brazil in the quarters. Brazil are the team to avoid for me.

[RevidgeBlue]

Just now, RV Blue said:

Prior to the Belgium game we knew who were going through and who were going home, the Belgium game only decided which side of the draw we’d be going on. The bookies shortened the odds for us to win the cup when they realised that we’d be going on the Colombia side of the draw. From a maximising our chances of doing well point of view, Southgate made the correct decision. It would have been much easier for him to chuck the first team out against Belgium but he didn’t and I respect him for that.

It must be just me then. For me you need to be to a few loaves short of a full basket to favour a game against a side ranked 16 in the world rather than one ranked 61. Plus you've killed off all the momentum by chopping and changing.

We were absolutely flying but probably won't even reach the so called easier part of the draw now.

[Mike E]

2 hours ago, Paul said:

I think this is very true the problem being though from what I've seen the first choice England side are no better than a mid to low table PL side. We lack quality, creativity, imagination and excitment. Ask yourself where all these qualities come from in the PL? The side Southgate put out against Belgium was extremely poor, lacked any spark and had no idea how to win the game. Changing any winning side is a serious managerial error.

What I've seen of the World Cup so far has provided some exciting entertaining matches, England haven't featured in one of those. If Colombia score first they will win as England lack the guile to create quality opportunities. If we can stop Colombia scoring we might nick it but I don't have any real expectation of this.

Hang on... 5-0 in one half vs Panama wasn't exciting or entertaining? This is why England fans can't have nice things.

The cream of the English crop is a mediocre team. Getting out of the groups has been achieved, something we failed to do with a much better side only 4 years ago.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

19 minutes ago, RV Blue said:

They think it’s and easier route to the final overall. We’ve got two winnable games to get to the Semis, if we played Japan next we’d most likely be playing Brazil in the quarters. Brazil are the team to avoid for me.

Yeah Brazil will be there or thereabouts as will Spain. There are just too many teams in it for us to have to avoid for us to have a realistic chance of winning it.

[SBlue]

Or the last minute winner against Tunisia after playing well... what a yawn-fest.

 

Look, we didn’t lose on purpose.

We rested our most important players to give us a chance in the next game.

I’m starting to think that some of these that are giving Southgate grief about the fact Colombia won their group would be the first to give him pelters if Kane had done his hamstring or Henderson got a red in a match we didn’t need to win.

It really is The Impossible Job isn’t it?

[Baz]

8 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

It's not the fact our reserves lost to the Belgian reserves per se, Southgate was probably entitled to make some changes but a modest 3 or 4 changes at most and giving Kane an hour to keep him revved up and hopefully scoring would have probably sufficed to enable us to get the minimum point we needed, top the group, keep the momentum going, and land Japan in the last 16.

You seem to be completely incapable of grasping why I'm so hopping mad about this, for me we had every chance of reaching the quarter finals, now because of all the shenanigans and landing ourselves a far more difficult game in the last 16. I think It's far more likely than not we'll go out at that stage instead.

I accept that if we do beat Colombia convincingly  then navigate the quarter final then Southgate suddenly looks like a genius and I'd have to come on here and say it worked, but by the same token, will you come on and admit he made a catastrophic miscalculation if we get knocked out?

Ironically one of the changes I would have made he didn't. I would definitely have given the back up keeper 90 minutes or even both of them 45 mins each. We Don't want another 1970 Banks/Bonetti type situation if anything happens to Pickford.

I understand, but don't agree with you regarding the changes made, as I outlined my reasons before the Belgian game - yes Japan easier than Colombia but Colombia look beatable, and the game after vs Brazil much harder.

Given the amount of action for Pickford in the first 2 games I don't disagree with the Banks / Bonnetti thing, or in keeping him in - not too bothered either way.

I wouldn't call Southgate a genius if it works out, after all Martinez tried the same, and I think a lot of other managers would have taken the opportunity to do the same too - lots of managers rest key players the week before cup finals etc - it's a pretty unique situation to be in (last game to kick off, both teams through so don't need a result, 1 half of draw loaded, the other not). If we get beat by Colombia, then I'd look at the performances, 1 professional vs Tunisia, 1 good vs Panama, 1 friendly vs Belgium and whatever the performance is like vs Colombia - taking into account that Fleetwood Town would be a similar level to Panama IMO. At worst he's done far better than Hodgson, but I'm far from convinced he's a top manager too. 

Going into the tournament I'd have been happy to get to QF, now I'm looking at a really good opportunity to get to SF. If we do that with this squad given it's limitations, age etc, that would be very promising to me.

[RevidgeBlue]

Just now, S8 & Blue said:

It really is The Impossible Job isn’t it?

if 3m p.a. for leading us through the formality of qualifying for a tournament every couple of years, earning plaudits for finishing second in a group containing Tunisia and Panama, then losing as soon as we come up against anyone half decent is "the impossible job" I'll have some of that!

 

[RevidgeBlue]

Just now, Baz said:

I understand, but don't agree with you regarding the changes made, as I outlined my reasons before the Belgian game - yes Japan easier than Colombia but Colombia look beatable, and the game after vs Brazil much harder.

Given the amount of action for Pickford in the first 2 games I don't disagree with the Banks / Bonnetti thing, or in keeping him in - not too bothered either way.

I wouldn't call Southgate a genius if it works out, after all Martinez tried the same, and I think a lot of other managers would have taken the opportunity to do the same too - lots of managers rest key players the week before cup finals etc - it's a pretty unique situation to be in (last game to kick off, both teams through so don't need a result, 1 half of draw loaded, the other not). If we get beat by Colombia, then I'd look at the performances, 1 professional vs Tunisia, 1 good vs Panama, 1 friendly vs Belgium and whatever the performance is like vs Colombia - taking into account that Fleetwood Town would be a similar level to Panama IMO. At worst he's done far better than Hodgson, but I'm far from convinced he's a top manager too. 

Going into the tournament I'd have been happy to get to QF, now I'm looking at a really good opportunity to get to SF. If we do that with this squad given it's limitations, age etc, that would be very promising to me.

Very reasonable response. The difference with resting players before a Cup Final though is that the opposition is fixed and doesn't become more difficult as a result of resting players for the other game.

I'm surprised more posters Don't consider there to be a huge gulf in quality between Colombia and Japan.

[SBlue]

Without Kane, Lingard, Henderson, Trippier etc I’d be worried about Japan. 

Id be worried anyway, it’s the World Cup, anything can happen, and well... it’s England.

Iceland seemed like an ideal last 16 tie last tournament.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Have an awful feeling the Argies will suddenly come to life....

[JAL]

A clean sheet for Jordan Pickford please next game. 

[SBlue]

Just now, SIMON GARNERS 194 said:

Have an awful feeling the Argies will suddenly come to life....

Can’t wait to find out.

The last 24 hours have been horrendous.

[Husky]

Spanish fans practically think they are in the final already.  Oleeeeeeeee!