World Cup 2018

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, Husky said:

Shouldn't blame just the ref then. But he has overall say.

Counted 17 times when the ref gave incorrect and poor decisions against England. Then as you said, there were those 3 times when the ball went out of play. Add to that the persistent fouling and breaking up of the whole game by one or two players in particular - they should have been carded early on to stop them in their tracks. It was just a very poor refereeing performance that had anyone seen at Ewood Park would have been bemoaning. I can only presume that those that didn't see that spent most of the game mostly staring at their phone, internet or yapping to some fish wife.

Hoofball was also appalling, it really was just like watching the old clueless England. Ali and Lingard were really soft...knocked off the ball far too easily.

Given all that...you just can't afford to miss chances....as we all feared....Kane brought his Leyton Orient game to the semi.

All in all the only ones to come out of this with any credit are Pickford, who most of us including me were worried about, and a couple of the defenders.

Apart from that we were bang average in the end.

Like you say we are knocked off the ball much too easily. You've got used watching football over here. I saw incidents that would have definitely been free kicks in our football. The thing is, we're not playing in our leagues, we're playing in a World Cup. It was obvious to me after watching the early games that you could expect to get away with a lot more in this World Cup. How many red cards were handed out compared with games in England ? We never came to terms with that fact. I got tired of seeing our guys on the floor appealing for free kicks we were never ever going to get.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, Ladyboys of Bank Top said:

Nonsense. It had nothing to do with hard men or tough guys. It was to do with players like a Modric et al being wonderful footballers. 

They had skilful guys who also don't take a backward step. They got in our faces in the second half and we couldn't handle it.

[wolfie]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I've been saying it for weeks, it's not hindsight. Our lads allowed themselves to be pushed around physically by Croatia tonight. It's all very being nice boys but there are times when you have to fight fire with fire. We've nobody who has a reputation for being a hard case out there. The Premier League is a league for wimps and divers I'm afraid.

Completely out of context to my original post, but hey ho

[tomphil]

4 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Kane has worked hard outside the box but has been poor otherwise - he had 2 chances tonight which he fluffed, was beaten in the air more often than not and was dominated physically by Lovren. A long way from being "world class". 

That's something we noticed in the early games how poor he is at winning headers with his back to goal. One of those who drops off his man then leaps backwards making himself a foot shorter but I suppose he's not really a target man despite having the size. Couldn't fault his graft like all of them but he's looked ordinary ability wise, just a pity the Spuds version couldn't show up tonight.

[davulsukur]

8 minutes ago, DE. said:

Pretty much. The Croatians put three forward, pushed us onto the back foot and we never really got back into the game. We ended up stuck in a 5-3-2, our attackers vanished, the Croatians suddenly had a lot more time on the ball and should really have put the game to bed before the ninety minutes were up. Extra time was just two very tired teams hoping to grab a goal. Croatia were the ones who nicked it through a momentary lapse of concentration from Stones. That aside it would probably have gone to penalties.

 

6 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

The teams that started the second half were exactly the same as the team's in the first half. We were dominant in the first half. Then they changed their way of playing  and we didn't deal with it until it was too late.

Ah, you 2 guys (right?) so much football knowledge (genuinely)

Yes, I’ve a had a few beers but the point still stands that your knowledge/insights into the game is always welcome on these boards.

[RevidgeBlue]

1 hour ago, jim mk2 said:

Southgate's done well with a good bunch of lads. But he's no managerial genius. Lumping long balls forward won't beat top international teams.

England need to find two top-class playmakers. 

Hmm..... At the end of the day as soon as we came up against a decent side we lost.

Still Don't rate Southgate as a manager and his decision not to take a playmaker in midfield ultimately cost us.

However what he did do brilliantly was take some bold decisions to ditch international wasters like Rooney and Hart and put together a young team who actually want to play for the shirt as opposed to a lot of over-rated names who see turning out for international duty as a hindrance.

Positive tournament overall. Might do really well going forward under a decent manager.

[Ladyboys of Bank Top]

3 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

They had skilful guys who also don't take a backward step. They got in our faces in the second half and we couldn't handle it.

We couldn't handle it because we had no one who could take care of the ball.. Modric and the guy from Barca are world class players and knew how to control possession. We don't have anyone of that quality. 

Edited July 11, 2018 by Ladyboys of Bank Top

[tomphil]

Yep Southgate at least applied a new broom and got rid of all the ego's who seemed to think appearing in these tournaments was all about them and their profiles. We've had so many top class players over the last 20 years but it's been bloody painful to watch them at times skulking about looking like they'd rather be on the beach and they'd a divine right to beat teams just by turning up.

These lot were refreshing and for that i'll always be grateful, hope it continues.

Edited July 11, 2018 by tomphil

[Butty]

Young side, done us proud. Can't fault them they can only learn and grow from this. Righteo.. Back to the club stuff. Get them players signed TM  

[DE.]

Southgate pretty much nailed it in the post match interview when he said we lost our composure for most of the second half. We were obviously a bit rattled by Croatia coming at us so forcefully after the break, drastically improving across the pitch. We had it pretty easy in the first half and it must have been jarring to feel like we were facing a completely different team during the second 45. We lost a bit of our confidence and courage, and retreated into our shells. We needed an experienced leader or two out on the pitch to calm things down and sort things out (not a Rooney or Joe Hart, for the record). Unfortunately we just don't have that right now. Even so we pushed Croatia as far as we could. A few tweaks, a couple of new youngsters emerging and we could be right in the mix at Euro 2020 and WC 2022. The foundation is there, we just need to build on it.

[jim mk2]

It gets worse really. Croatia has a population of 4m, fewer than the number of people in Lancashire, not 8m as previously stated. It's the smallest country to reach the WC Final.  And we're patting ourselves on the back for getting to the semis. 

[philipl]

Just now, jim mk2 said:

It gets worse really. Croatia has a population of 4m, fewer than the number of people in Lancashire, not 8m as previously stated. It's the smallest country to reach the WC Final.  And we're patting ourselves on the back for getting to the semis. 

Uruguay who have won it twice are smaller

[Husky]

8 years until the next summer World Cup. 8 YEARS! ? 2026!!!!

Hands up all of those who will probably be dead by then.  

[Ladyboys of Bank Top]

Just now, jim mk2 said:

It gets worse really. Croatia has a population of 4m, fewer than the number of people in Lancashire, not 8m as previously stated. It's the smallest country to reach the WC Final.  And we're patting ourselves on the back for getting to the semis. 

Not really relevant. 

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

Just now, DE. said:

Southgate pretty much nailed it in the post match interview when he said we lost our composure for most of the second half. We were obviously a bit rattled by Croatia coming at us so forcefully after the break, drastically improving across the pitch. We had it pretty easy in the first half and it must have been jarring to feel like we were facing a completely different team during the second 45. We lost a bit of our confidence and courage, and retreated into our shells. We needed an experienced leader or two out on the pitch to calm things down and sort things out (not a Rooney or Joe Hart, for the record). Unfortunately we just don't have that right now. Even so we pushed Croatia as far as we could. A few tweaks, a couple of new youngsters emerging and we could be right in the mix at Euro 2020 and WC 2022. The foundation is there, we just need to build on it.

To be fair Cahill was on the bench.  Could have subbed Trippier when struggling and put walker at right back.  Know how and experience may have Sured things up.

[DE.]

One other thing I'll note before I go to bed is that Southgate appears to struggle to counter tactical moves by opposition managers. We don't really seem to have a Plan B once Plan A starts to fail. Both Colombia and Croatia in these knockout stages were able to significantly hinder us by making fairly simple tactical alterations. We've got to try and work on being more flexible tactically and being able to adapt to the opposition as and when they change things. Just subbing players like for like (most of the time) isn't always going to be enough.

[Husky]

36 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I've been saying it for weeks, it's not hindsight. Our lads allowed themselves to be pushed around physically by Croatia tonight. It's all very well being nice boys but there are times when you have to fight fire with fire. We've nobody who has a reputation for being a hard case out there. The Premier League is a league for wimps and divers I'm afraid.

Most of us knew that foreigners taking over the Premier League would have a negative impact on the England team. It's just slightly bizarre how it's panned out this time.

Though I heard Shelvey is a bit 'hard' . . .comparatively. 

[joey_big_nose]

It was a 50 50 game today in terms of quality so no shame in being shaded out over a 120 mins. We controlled it till they scored then it was all Croatia.

In reflection I think Southgate has done magnificently. Only Kane, Sterling and maybe Walker were considered top players before the tournament and we made the semi final (albeit with a luck draw). He had a lot of players considered weak links previous to the tournament like Pickford, Stones, Young.  Others like Maguire virtually  untested. And he's made stars out of Trippier and Lingard.

So to get as far as we did is a huge credit to everyone involved.

What I would say is we shouldn't focus too much on this individual defeat, they happen. Great sides like Spain got knocked out by Russia for example. The real issue is why the likes of Spain, France or Belgium have such a large volume of top players we have so few.

When you get to the final analysis it comes down to so few off our players playing top grade champions league fooball. Key talents for England like Maguire, Lingard and Rashford will sit on the bench for their clubs or play mid table football, rather than move abroad to find CL clubs where they get regular games. And without that experience they cannot progress. We really need to change that if we want to level the playing field internationally.

As long as out best players would rather stunt their careers by staying in the premier league we are buggered. But with all the £££s floating around it's hard to see how that changes.

[Baz]

Southgate too slow to change things, Kane is pretty much useless outside the box and can only do 70 mins, Sterling better but decision making awful, Young should have been replaced by Rose, 2 sloppy goals conceded, etc...

All matters nothing, when you see a team trying, risking things, committed. Take this team vs the one that surrendered to Iceland, to the one that couldn't get out of the group vs Costa Rica and Honduras.

Those all where far better rated than this. That's what we take from this, a bit of bloomin pride.

[Ladyboys of Bank Top]

When did Lingard become a star!? He's been anonymous since the Panama game. 

[bob fleming]

Just now, Husky said:

8 years until the next summer World Cup. 8 YEARS! ? 2026!!!!

Hands up all of those who will probably be dead by then.  

I’m an optimist mate. I think I will be.

i enjoyed this one. It went a bit ott after the Sweden match, but overall I think Southgate has been superb. 

This group of players, keep them together, keep the manager. They’re all young and learning. Team spirit goes a hell of a long way. Success breeds success.

City bought Mahrez today by the way. That’ll be half a billion quid in two years he’s spent. I can’t wait to get back to the Premier League. It’ll be fantastic. 

Take the money out of it and it really is the best game in the world. 

[joey_big_nose]

Just now, Ladyboys of Bank Top said:

When did Lingard become a star!? He's been anonymous since the Panama game. 

Personally I think he's been great with his running and movement. Hardly Pogba, but I'd take him over Dier any day of the week.

Edited July 11, 2018 by joey_big_nose

[Ladyboys of Bank Top]

Just now, joey_big_nose said:

Personally I think he's been great with his running and movement.

You could say the same about Sterling and he's been hammered by the pundits press and fans.

 

 

[Mike E]

1 hour ago, jim mk2 said:

It gets worse really. Croatia has a population of 4m, fewer than the number of people in Lancashire, not 8m as previously stated. It's the smallest country to reach the WC Final.  And we're patting ourselves on the back for getting to the semis. 

China has 1.2bn people and not a decent footballer among them. Ever.

Population is irrelevant imo, esp in an age where inherited nationality counts for a lot.

[Norbert Rassragr]

Didn't see the game but the 2nd youngest squad there saved the national team from irrelevance. Hopefully a few great players will come from the youth teams in time for Qatar.