World Cup 2018

[Stuart]

So sod the national game and blame the players not being mobile enough? That’s a really disappointing summation.

Football clubs may as well become non-geographic entities then. United are virtually there already. Or Why bother having national sport at all. May as well make it a PL-eleven competing against other national leagues if being given opportunities in your home nation isn’t appropriate.

National pride and affiliation to local clubs are dying because everyone goes chasing the coin. Amazing that any fans think this is ok.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

No way should we have changed formation. 

I do think we looked fresher but couldnt use it to our advantage. Should have used Delph as mentioned for Alli, that would have been my first sub.

Ya true, Lingard or Ali  could have been the ones taken off. 

If ye attacked last night , you could have undoubtedly finished the game off by the 60th min. Not sure if a formation or a mind change was needed, but Croatia looked to be on the ropes big time. 

[Silas]

1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Huge capitulation by England last night. 

And people say the English are overdramatic. 

C'mon,  beaten by a single goal 10 mins from the end of extra time hardly qualifies as a "huge capitulation". 

Calm yourself.

On another note,  what did u think of your boy Roy Keane last night?

With Wrighty.  Had me in stitches. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Stuart said:

So sod the national game and blame the players not being mobile enough? That’s a really disappointing summation.

Football clubs may as well become non-geographic entities then. United are virtually there already. Or Why bother having national sport at all. May as well make it a PL-eleven competing against other national leagues if being given opportunities in your home nation isn’t appropriate.

National pride and affiliation to local clubs are dying because everyone goes chasing the coin. Amazing that any fans think this is ok.

The top clubs are pretty much non geographical entities already. They don't care about the English national team, for someone like Mourinho it just an annoyance. If some English coaches were at the top clubs, things might be different ,but as it stands your players are stagnating at top clubs or even your regular Premier league clubs. It appears you have a great crop of youngsters coming through, it will be interesting to see where they get 1st team game time 

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Silas said:

And people say the English are overdramatic. 

C'mon,  beaten by a single goal 10 mins from the end of extra time hardly qualifies as a "huge capitulation". 

Calm yourself.

On another note,  what did u think of your boy Roy Keane last night?

With Wrighty.  Had me in stitches. 

The game was there for the taking if you kept the heads and continued attacking. I think ye bet yerselves more than Croatia bet ye. They scored with 10 min left, but had been on top for around 60 min at that stage. 

Ya, it was hillarious. 2 kids bickering in the playground. Wright copying Keanes accent topped it off, imagine if Keane was from somewhere else though and Wright did that, there would be uproar. Ian wright always looks to me like he is about to cry. Gary Neville sniggering away beside Keane then. Pretty much decided it is easier to side with the bully than go against him. 

 

[Silas]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

 

Ya, it was hillarious. 2 kids bickering in the playground. Wright copying Keanes accent topped it off, imagine if Keane was from somewhere else though and Wright did that, there would be uproar. Ian wright always looks to me like he is about to cry. Gary Neville sniggering away beside Keane then. Pretty much decided it is easier to side with the bully than go against him. 

 

Neville: "Go on, do your impression!"

Ha ha ha.

You're right tho, if that was an Indian,  then everyone loses their minds.

Keane is always good value.  He's always so grumpy. You would have thought it was his country that had lost. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Silas said:

Neville: "Go on, do your impression!"

Ha ha ha.

You're right tho, if that was an Indian,  then everyone loses their minds.

Keane is always good value.  He's always so grumpy. You would have thought it was his country that had lost. 

He has become a caricature of himself. I think he puts the grumpiness on for the media, although I may be wrong on that. 

Ya, imagine he was Indian and someone did an impression. It's funny how we perceive things sometimes. 

Edited July 12, 2018 by Bigdoggsteel

[AllRoverAsia]

2 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

The game was there for the taking if you kept the heads and continued attacking. I think ye bet yerselves more than Croatia bet ye. They scored with 10 min left, but had been on top for around 60 min at that stage. 

Ya, it was hillarious. 2 kids bickering in the playground. Wright copying Keanes accent topped it off, imagine if Keane was from somewhere else though and Wright did that, there would be uproar. Ian wright always looks to me like he is about to cry. Gary Neville sniggering away beside Keane then. Pretty much decided it is easier to side with the bully than go against him. 

 

Agree with all your posts today and we should have changed formation to 4 at the back in the second half when it became clear that Croatia had taken midfield, were dominating down both flanks, Young was being mullered and Ali and Lingard had all but disappeared.

Croatia may have won by just one goal but the dominated all over the pitch from half time.

Kane had no worthwhile support and hardly a decent pass received. No point it just lumping it up even to Kane but happened because our midfield went awol.

A few on here do not appreciate constructive criticism.

With success at England youth level the future is bright ..... to be nobbled by the PLs top clubs apart from Spurs.

[Mike E]

38 minutes ago, benhben said:

Its a shame young english dont often seem to entertain going and playing abroad, with regular games out of the british media spotlight. Young brasilians, argentinians etc often move abroad before getting a bigger move. Probably a culture thing, also why were so bad at learning languages. 

Im sure theres a lad who left manchester city youth to go to Dortmund and has had a good amount of game time and is getting good reviews. 

I know it's not the same (to a lower league, rather than to a foreign league), but that's what excites me about Davenport.

[speeeeeeedie]

The dream is over. It was a good ride, yet defeat at such a late stage is always hard to take.

However, England have a lot to look forward to, unlike previous tournaments.

This article from 2011 is very interesting; Southgate's vision.

Progress from that plan is now being seen.

I do think that some of the England squad need more playing time. Rashford and Lingard will not get any better playing for Mourinho.

[joey_big_nose]

1 hour ago, benhben said:

Its a shame young english dont often seem to entertain going and playing abroad, with regular games out of the british media spotlight. Young brasilians, argentinians etc often move abroad before getting a bigger move. Probably a culture thing, also why were so bad at learning languages. 

Im sure theres a lad who left manchester city youth to go to Dortmund and has had a good amount of game time and is getting good reviews. 

It's partly cultural - we don't like playing abroad - but mostly financial.

Foreign clubs don't want to pay transfer fees and wages over the odds for English players. And even if they do make an offer the likes of West Ham or Leicester will beat it and the player ends up churning it out mid table rather than champions league. Very depressing.

[Stuart]

So sod the national game and blame the players not being mobile enough? That’s a really disappointing summation.

Football clubs may as well become non-geographic entities then. United are virtually there already. Or Why bother having national sport at all. May as well make it a PL-eleven competing against other national leagues if being given opportunities in your home nation isn’t appropriate.

National pride and affiliation to local clubs are dying because everyone goes chasing the coin. Amazing that any fans think this is ok.

[Mike E]

31 minutes ago, speeeeeeedie said:

The dream is over. It was a good ride, yet defeat at such a late stage is always hard to take.

However, England have a lot to look forward to, unlike previous tournaments.

This article from 2011 is very interesting; Southgate's vision.

Progress from that plan is now being seen.

I do think that some of the England squad need more playing time. Rashford and Lingard will not get any better playing for Mourinho.

We've had proof these last few years of his vision from 2011. After ridiculing his appointment as England manager, I want him to be on-site long term. I'm talking 10 years at least. I'm sold on him.

[tomphil]

10 years ?    Steady on you've got to judge them on the tournaments so if as expected we have a decent Euro in 2 years then on we go but if it's a disaster then he needs assessing'

He is at least in tune with the modern way of thinking and has done a lot of good stuff in helping revamp the whole set up so let's hope the FA continue to buy into his way of thinking. A modern manager for modern times is the way forwards, dinosaurs and overated overpaid foreign managers a thing of the past hopefully however the future pans out for Southgate.

[Audax]

10 years appears practical but having said that...every team has is lulls.

Germany didn't advance this time, they may be the best example from being Champions in 2014 but I'd not forget, the 2010 French team hit rock bottom as well. They may have even been 32 of 32 teams for 2010. It goes around, it's not as if England has uniquely been hexed with misfortune.

[Baz]

8 hours ago, DE. said:

I have to agree with this. When Croatia began putting pressure on us we started punting it up the pitch like nothing had changed. Multiple times last night during the second half I noticed that nobody was showing for the ball, and if players are no longer willing to receive a pass the end result will ultimately either be a hoof or a loss of possession. It wasn't just the Croatia game either, in almost every game this tournament we've had a moment passing it around at the back where we've lost possession dangerously, mainly because of a lack of options passing wise. It's very noticeable that when the likes of Lingard, Alli and Sterling no longer want the ball the three of them will stay as far up the field as they can, leaving Henderson, Young and Tripper to try and find a way up the pitch (hint: not going to work very often). This is what led to Kane dropping back so far towards the end of the Colombia match. His three supporting attackers had lost their courage and didn't want possession anymore. 

This is why I don't buy into the media constantly pushing our "new identity". Yes we pass it around at the back, but it's led to as many dangerous situations in our own half this tournament as it has our opponents. We've created very few chances from open play. Most of our goals have come from penalties and set pieces, which contrasts against the supposed identity we've gained. We're a long way off establishing anything yet. At no point in this tournament did we ever look as dangerous as Croatia did against us in the second half last night - that's what we should be aspiring to. Once we can play like that then we can start crowing about new identities, philosophies, and whatever else. 

 

To me the issue wasn't Lingard, Sterling and Alli dropping off. Firstly Sterling terrifies defences with pace and skill, and taking him off allowed Croatia to push forward their defensive line -taking him off and putting Rashford on the wing was a strange decision. Secondly Young got tired early second half (one game too many?), and essentially left Alli to be playing both left-back and left hand side of central midfield. This never got addressed. Thirdly and hardly mentioned Kane stopped running and ended up playing nowhere near a centre-forward position - essentially enforcing the lump it forward we saw at times.

However, the biggest issue was not scoring a second goal in the first half. 

[DE.]

Just now, Baz said:

To me the issue wasn't Lingard, Sterling and Alli dropping off. Firstly Sterling terrifies defences with pace and skill, and taking him off allowed Croatia to push forward their defensive line -taking him off and putting Rashford on the wing was a strange decision. Secondly Young got tired early second half (one game too many?), and essentially left Alli to be playing both left-back and left hand side of central midfield. This never got addressed. Thirdly and hardly mentioned Kane stopped running and ended up playing nowhere near a centre-forward position - essentially enforcing the lump it forward we saw at times.

However, the biggest issue was not scoring a second goal in the first half. 

Sterling can terrorise defences with his pace, but yesterday in the second half he was totally anonymous. He, Lingard and Alli all vanished from the game in an attacking sense. Lingard and Alli were at least attempting to contribute to the defensive side of the game which is probably why Sterling was brought off instead. I thought Rashford did okay when he came on. He wanted the ball and had control over it. Unfortunately everybody around him was tired, and as you say Kane had stopped running making it difficult to link up effectively. 

I couldn't decide whether Young was tired or just rubbish. Probably a bit of both. Rose should have started imo. I'm glad that's the last we'll see of Young in an England shirt. Set pieces aside he's been one of the weakest links in our team this tournament. 

[speeeeeeedie]

1 hour ago, Baz said:

To me the issue wasn't Lingard, Sterling and Alli dropping off. Firstly Sterling terrifies defences with pace and skill, and taking him off allowed Croatia to push forward their defensive line -taking him off and putting Rashford on the wing was a strange decision. Secondly Young got tired early second half (one game too many?), and essentially left Alli to be playing both left-back and left hand side of central midfield. This never got addressed. Thirdly and hardly mentioned Kane stopped running and ended up playing nowhere near a centre-forward position - essentially enforcing the lump it forward we saw at times.

However, the biggest issue was not scoring a second goal in the first half. 

I suggested taking Trippier and Alli off for Dier and Delph, and switching to 4-4-1-1. Walker as an orthodox right back. Dier and Henderson in the middle, Delph on the left. That would have cut off their full backs who were causing havoc.

You are correct though, a second goal would have killed it off.

Edited July 12, 2018 by speeeeeeedie

[chaddyrovers]

Full video of @GarethSouthgate’s long-awaited emergence from the tunnel - precisely 70 minutes after the final whistle. The @England fans had been chanting for him non-stop while he was inside conducting all his media duties.  #mixedemotions #Eng https://t.co/u1BO08uJAe

What a class guy Southgate is. He has put passion back into the England and got fans supporting the country. He got my passion back and the pride to watch England again..just watch the game back again after being at work but still watching/listening to the game. You can cricitise him for certain things but I aint going to due to my backing of Southgate from day 1 pretty much

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

22 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Full video of @GarethSouthgate’s long-awaited emergence from the tunnel - precisely 70 minutes after the final whistle. The @England fans had been chanting for him non-stop while he was inside conducting all his media duties.  #mixedemotions #Eng https://t.co/u1BO08uJAe

What a class guy Southgate is. He has put passion back into the England and got fans supporting the country. He got my passion back and the pride to watch England again..just watch the game back again after being at work but still watching/listening to the game. You can cricitise him for certain things but I aint going to due to my backing of Southgate from day 1 pretty much

He needed to think on his feet in the second half last night and he didn't. We had no real plan " B "  he was just swapping like for like. I'm a bit harder to please when it comes to football.

[Husky]

I hope Gareth isn't going to become England's Bowyer or the National Team is going to go sideways.

 

[Rover_Shaun]

It still galls. We will never ever get another chance like it. All we had to do was be cuter and see the game out by bolstering the midfield and we would have won 1-0. Then anything could have happened in the final.

Chance of our lifetimes gone.

Edited July 13, 2018 by Rover_Shaun

[chaddyrovers]

10 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

He needed to think on his feet in the second half last night and he didn't. We had no real plan " B "  he was just swapping like for like. I'm a bit harder to please when it comes to football.

Not in my opinion but hey ho, but we the really good up and coming players we have coming from under 21 level and under there is plenty of optimism and quality players coming there. Plus other players not picked. The next few years could be very good going forward. Southgate performed better than most people gave him and instead the fan base have really took to him and his manner with them

going 4-4-2 last night wasn't the answered but That's said the players will learnt from this experience and it will help them in the future. 

[Baz]

2 hours ago, speeeeeeedie said:

I suggested taking Trippier and Alli off for Dier and Delph, and switching to 4-4-1-1. Walker as an orthodox right back. Dier and Henderson in the middle, Delph on the left. That would have cut off their full backs who were causing havoc.

You are correct though, a second goal would have killed it off.

My initial thought was Delph / Rose for Young / Alli, same formation. Dier and Henderson is too negative for me. Sterling should have stayed on, even if pushed a little to the left to stop their full back from camping in our half and pinging crosses.

Having said all that - someone needs to teach Rashford to stay central. He drifts to the wing far too much. Getting the ball to the position where he can cross, but there's no-one in the box.

Pretty obvious gaps in the squad of creative central midfield, left midfield, central striker(s). We have to use the next couple of years trying to find players to fill those gaps, not just coasting through a dozen easy qualifying games and learning nothing. Get some B international's lined up and give the kids who have won their age groups some experience they are unlikely to get at club level for another 2 or 3 years.

[Rover_Shaun]

The nation's league is perfect for breeding squad players