Venkys London Ltd accounts

[JHRover]

Can someone better versed than me in these sort of things help with a few questions:

1) Am I correct in thinking that when Venkys inject cash into the club and this is done via issuing shares of £1 value that the shares issued are in Venkys London Ltd and not Blackburn Rovers Ltd? As such the number of shares in BRFC remains the same and the number of shares in VLL increases massively by millions a year?

2) When they pump cash in do they always do it by issuing shares in VLL?

3) In terms of the £138,941,619 'investment' in BRFC Ltd - this is the number of shares in BRFC owned by VLL or was close to it last time I checked - has this gone up under Venkys or was this the number of shares bought from the Walker estate?

4) Am I correct in thinking that should Venkys want to sell BRFC then they could do so at whatever price they wanted, including effectively giving the club away, by signing over VLL's shares in BRFC to another company and absorbing the shares in VLL (worthless without ownership of Rovers) as a cost to them?

Edited April 9, 2019 by JHRover

[lraC]

4 minutes ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

The VLL accounts state explicitly that the loan to BRFC of £138 million has not been discounted for any risk of delay or non-payment. This surely means that in Venkys main accounts none of the money they have pissed away on this venture has shown up as a loss yet.

So, what they have on the line is, not only the £138 million, but the hit to their share price (and the family have a LOT of shares) when the loss is eventually declared, which it would be if they sold up or the club went into admin. In that situation, having to put in £15 million a year is a lot better than the alternatives, especially when one promotion to the Premiership makes the problem go away.

It seems we are both embraced in a mutual death grip, if either let’s go we both lose.

 

The guessing game goes on with this. No one knows the true wealth of Venkys and if they are prepared to just carry on pumping money in every year to keep it afloat? One thing for certain, they have never suggested they are prepared to sell, or prepared to write off the loans they have made and until they do, we have to assume they will carry on underwriting it. 

[Vinjay]

2 hours ago, laughatthedingles said:

On another note, Northcotes smaller company that held their Ribble Valley Inns was sold recently, then a little while later Northcote itself has been bought by the same people, all for a incredible amount. 

 

Noises are already being made about 2 training sites not being sustainable or in the best interests of the club itself. 

Might have missed it but didn't see anything on the recent fans/club meeting minutes about the new executive caterers. (EDIT-It was brought up but no word on the replacement)

 Presumably it will be someone who charges less extortionate prices than Northchoke did. Nor owned by someone who thinks it's funny to post pics of "manager's parking space" signs and captioning "anyone interested?".

Hopefully entirely new staff as well even though Bancroft was arrogant enough (not an uncommon trait particularly if you read up on the minimum wage story) to practically order the club to keep the current lot. 

My guess would be to have a look at other clubs (particularly in North West) and see who their executive catering partners are. Prior to Jack's death and Matthewman's friends being rewarded the contract shortly thereafter it was a firm named Sodexo. 

Edited April 9, 2019 by Vinjay17

[tomphil]

Who does Boltons isn't it the same mob ?

[Vinjay]

Just now, tomphil said:

Who does Boltons isn't it the same mob ?

No that would be Heathcote who haven't exactly been happy with Bolton recently. So you would imagine they might be looking for a replacement contract elsewhere. 

[lraC]

All these Cotes around, make it a bit confusing. Bolton certainly seem to have no coat and no knIckers for that matter and their caterers have withdrawn their services, due to the debt the club owe them. 

[oldjamfan1]

Just now, lraC said:

All these Cotes around, make it a bit confusing. Bolton certainly seem to have no coat and no knIckers for that matter and their caterers have withdrawn their services, due to the debt the club owe them. 

Take a bow mate

[philipl]

I believe injections into VLL come from personal finances, not the quoted Venkys Hatcheries Limited.

We are back into the realms of the family having huge amounts of land around Pune which were scrub when obtained and are now inside one of the richest fastest growing cities in India.

Issues over title to the lands which derailed Balaji securing State Bank of India finance which he passed onto Rovers seem to have gone away.  

 

[tomphil]

We'll never know where it all actually comes from or goes without looking at the books.

Wonder what it says on the monthly payslips,  SBOI, VLL, VH or The Balaji Benevolent Fund ???

[lraC]

Just now, tomphil said:

We'll never know where it all actually comes from or goes without looking at the books.

Wonder what it says on the monthly payslips,  SBOI, VLL, VH or The Balaji Benevolent Fund ???

Venky's account trust for retired violin players or for short VAT fiddler's. 

[PeteJD13]

an ex employee told me they are worth around 3 billion pounds so they amounts they are putting in aren't going to make a dent in that fortune

[Proudtobeblue&white]

2 hours ago, Vinjay17 said:

Might have missed it but didn't see anything on the recent fans/club meeting minutes about the new executive caterers. (EDIT-It was brought up but no word on the replacement)

 Presumably it will be someone who charges less extortionate prices than Northchoke did. Nor owned by someone who thinks it's funny to post pics of "manager's parking space" signs and captioning "anyone interested?".

Hopefully entirely new staff as well even though Bancroft was arrogant enough (not an uncommon trait particularly if you read up on the minimum wage story) to practically order the club to keep the current lot. 

My guess would be to have a look at other clubs (particularly in North West) and see who their executive catering partners are. Prior to Jack's death and Matthewman's friends being rewarded the contract shortly thereafter it was a firm named Sodexo. 

Wow, if they run their catering like they do their prisons and the probation service, I have little hope of any quality!

[lraC]

 Seems that Bolton have now missed paying pension contributions for their staff too. 

[JHRover]

Just now, lraC said:

 Seems that Bolton have now missed paying pension contributions for their staff too. 

Isn't that against the law as well as being in breach of contract?

[tomphil]

32 minutes ago, PeteJD13 said:

an ex employee told me they are worth around 3 billion pounds so they amounts they are putting in aren't going to make a dent in that fortune

When Nick Harris did his research he estimated their business portfolio and personal wealth including assets etc to be worth around 2 billion including a cash pile at hand in the bank of c400 million. There was of course questions whether this estimate was in Indian money or sterling which he didn't bother answering.

So yes it isn't going to bother then personally that much which is why it's a bit bemusing they don't just clear outstanding debts and hire a top guy to run the club and employ managers of a higher calibre.  For all their wealth they've overseen a fair old set of penny pinching and selling players etc whilst rooting in the bargain bin for all the managers and in turn loads of players.

A genuinely bizarre situation for which only they and their partners know the answer, if indeed they do.

 

Edited April 9, 2019 by tomphil

[lraC]

Just now, JHRover said:

Isn't that against the law as well as being in breach of contract?

Yes I would imagine so, but this Anderson guy, doesn't seem to worry too much about that, as he was deemed fit and proper.

[philipl]

10 minutes ago, tomphil said:

When Nick Harris did his research he estimated their business portfolio and personal wealth including assets etc to be worth around 2 billion including a cash pile at hand in the bank of c400 million. There was of course questions whether this estimate was in Indian money or sterling which he didn't bother answering.

So yes it isn't going to bother then personally that much which is why it's a bit bemusing they don't just clear outstanding debts and hire a top guy to run the club and employ managers of a higher calibre.  For all their wealth they've overseen a fair old set of penny pinching and selling players etc whilst rooting in the bargain bin for all the managers and in turn loads of players.

A genuinely bizarre situation for which only they and their partners know the answer, if indeed they do.

 

I used to seriously doubt their wealth based on the 48 or so companies they own including the majority holding in the quoted VHL. However, when the extent of their land holdings around Pune became apparent the picture changed completely. Unlike trump, they are real billionaires.

Having said that I still think Rovers bother them and they take a considerable personal interest in us as they do get involved in the minutiae of the club at times. 

[tomphil]

Last time I looked that VH group was weighted with a hell of a lot of debt although they obviously have a good regular reliable turnover to service it.  Must be secured against something though so the old man played a blinder with that land it seems it under pins everything if that is true. Must own half of India !

I suspect personally away from the business they must have a lot of fingers in a lot of other money making pies. I think Madame and her husband are very astute when it comes to stuff like that, not sure about the other two but somebodies got to spend it I suppose.

[Vinjay]

Replacing this firm with Northchoke? Ludicrous.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodexo

Edited April 9, 2019 by Vinjay17

[awhom111]

Surprised that nobody has mentioned the latest share issue that was posted today:

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/07406020/filing-history

Looks like another injection of cash totaling 9.625 million.

[Stuart]

Injection of cash, or more lending?

[cesus]

4 hours ago, awhom111 said:

Surprised that nobody has mentioned the latest share issue that was posted today:

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/07406020/filing-history

Looks like another injection of cash totaling 9.625 million.

That is an incredible sum of money if it just to keep us within FFP. Hopefully it’s for a few new defenders.

The shear amount of money (self inflicted) that has to be pumped in annually is absolutely frightening, football finances are crazy!

Edited August 6, 2019 by cesus

[tomphil]

How can it be to keep us within FFP ?

[cesus]

17 minutes ago, tomphil said:

How can it be to keep us within FFP ?

I have no idea, that’s why I asked the question. People usually have some reason behind writing cheques for £9m+

[Bigdoggsteel]

Didn't something similar happen last season around this time to the tune of around £6 million? 

Hopefully we are going to spend £9 million on a defender so 

?

Edited August 6, 2019 by Bigdoggsteel