Venkys London Ltd accounts

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

2 hours ago, superniko said:

All that cash to finish bottom half of Championship....ever feel your being cheated?

[RoverCanada]

3 hours ago, martonrover said:

Oh no they won’t.

Still useless on a slightly lower wage.

 

1 hour ago, rigger said:

15% of far too much, is still not enough

To avoid any further confusion, there was a touch of sarcasm to that note :)

(I'd file the 15% cut as merely the least you would expect given the circumstances.)

Edit: And arbitro makes a good point re: wage deferral! Although you'd then expect that to show up in the player wage numbers too.

Edited July 8, 2021 by RoverCanada

[Herbie6590]

1 hour ago, Miller11 said:

I expect this “wage cut” was due to the fact he was on furlough from the time it was introduced until the season restarted

The CEO was on furlough ? Really ? Do you know that for sure or is it speculation ? 

[Miller11]

32 minutes ago, Herbie6590 said:

The CEO was on furlough ? Really ? Do you know that for sure or is it speculation ? 

It’s what I was told at the time, but not from the man himself… may be speculation on the part of people within the club though, as by all accounts he wasn’t around much or very active.

To be honest, @arbitro’s explanation of the wage deferral makes a lot more sense.

[rigger]

1 hour ago, RoverCanada said:

 

To avoid any further confusion, there was a touch of sarcasm to that note :)

(I'd file the 15% cut as merely the least you would expect given the circumstances.)

Edit: And arbitro makes a good point re: wage deferral! Although you'd then expect that to show up in the player wage numbers too.

And yet you didn't recognise the sarcasm in my reply.

[Mashed Potatoes]

The deferral of wages - as opposed to a waiver- would not be reflected in the charge to profit and loss account as the liability for the wages still exists and so is required to be charged to the accounts in the period in which it arises rather than when it is eventually paid.

[broadsword]

Where is all this going? I guess that's what everyone is asking and no one can say for sure. 

"Blackburn total losses over the years now exceed £282,000,000. This has been funded by loans and shares bought by the Venkys."

Good job I wasn't operating a lathe when I read that. That's astonishing and offhand I can't think of any business that's been propped up to that extent. The UK government keeping British Leyland a float in the seventies didn't throw that much money away. 

Help me understand, why aren't they trying to sell us? How close to administration or liquidation are we? Would we survive administration? 

I know Einstein said that human stupidity is without limits, but this is taking the biscuit. It's either stupidity or criminal negligence or it's something much darker. 

Anyone? 

 

Edited July 8, 2021 by broadsword

[Leonard Venkhater]

16 minutes ago, broadsword said:

Where is all this going? I guess that's what everyone is asking and no one can say for sure. 

"Blackburn total losses over the years now exceed £282,000,000. This has been funded by loans and shares bought by the Venkys."

Good job I wasn't operating a lathe when I read that. That's astonishing and offhand I can't think of any business that's been propped up to that extent. The UK government keeping British Leyland a float in the seventies didn't throw that much money away. 

Help me understand, why aren't they trying to sell us? How close to administration or liquidation are we? Would we survive administration? 

I know Einstein said that human stupidity is without limits, but this is taking the biscuit. It's either stupidity or criminal negligence or it's something much darker. 

Anyone? 

 

I am wondering who benefits from "losses" like that. What is the function, for whom?

However many millions they quote, I fail to be impressed. 

What a business failure! Add these "losses" to all the money from two seasons in the premier league , all the money from their fire sales and all the parachute payments..

Yet they never, ever appoint a proper manager, install a proper structure. However much money they quote, it is not f**** working!

Get out and let someone take over, who is willing and able to run a club properly.

Not one attempt at promotion to the top flight in 10 years....zombie club...only one outcome...

[broadsword]

Well yeah, if they don't get promotion at some future point, presumably we'll go bust. Unless they scale us down and let us stop through the leagues, but then they'd have done that already, surely? 

This isn't going to end well, is it? Really putting my neck on the block there 🤣 

[JHRover]

If Venkys were running the club properly, learning from mistakes or providing anything positive in return for their 'investment' then I might be impressed or grateful for their support.

A club losing £20 million a year should not be fighting relegation in the Championship, should not have a filthy stadium or non-league pitch. That sort of investment should at least see us as a powerhouse in the Championship with PL standards throughout.

As it is I cannot and will not be grateful. They deserve nothing but contempt.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

But then we have numptys coming out with the following comments in the LT following this news.....

''Seriously hope Venkys get some praise this season, without them continuing to support us we would be doomed''

The reason this Club is doomed  you dozy Ham Shanker is down to Venkys negligence and major mismanagement!!!

Edited July 8, 2021 by SIMON GARNERS 194

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Miller11 said:

It’s what I was told at the time, but not from the man himself… may be speculation on the part of people within the club though, as by all accounts he wasn’t around much or very active.

To be honest, @arbitro’s explanation of the wage deferral makes a lot more sense.

I don't think it's possible for him to have been furloughed. Directors of Limited Companies couldn't furlough themselves for the same reason I'd imagine CEO's probably couldn't. But just a guess

[tomphil]

6 hours ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

What tax gets sorted by the sale of Armstrong ?

Read the accounts there's a 5 million tax liability in there is there not ?

Edited July 8, 2021 by tomphil

[oldjamfan1]

7 minutes ago, JoeH said:

I don't think it's possible for him to have been furloughed. Directors of Limited Companies couldn't furlough themselves for the same reason I'd imagine CEO's probably couldn't. But just a guess

I don't think that's the case Joe, although the only ones I know who did it were tiny companies. Although if Waggott could show that he was unable to carry out revenue-generating work (insert your own punch line here), then it is technically possible I think for him to have been put on furlough leave.

 

[tomphil]

As i always say at this time of year i'd love to see the actual payroll and who's on it.

[Mashed Potatoes]

28 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Read the accounts there's a 5 million tax liability in there is there not ?

Thanks. Yes there is , although of course those accounts show the position of just over a year ago. The government did provide for deferrals for businesses in paying taxes like VAT as a result of COVID so presumably the considerable increase in the number reflects that. I would like to think that Venkys would make sure that the club does meet its tax liabilities rather than make it conditional on transfer sale receipts.

 

 

[Miller11]

It’s unbelievable that people are trying to use this as evidence of us being well run.

We are well funded because we have to be… because we continue to be run absolutely terribly.

Another thing, how much longer can people continue to absolve Venky’s of all blame and pile it all on that wanker Anderson. He’s been out of the picture for at least 9 years. Apparently. 

Whats the tipping point? Half a billion? We are steadily heading towards that. They’ve wasted more than the GDP of some small countries already. Something simply has to change quickly, but nothing ever does.

[toogs]

29 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

Thanks. Yes there is , although of course those accounts show the position of just over a year ago. The government did provide for deferrals for businesses in paying taxes like VAT as a result of COVID so presumably the considerable increase in the number reflects that. I would like to think that Venkys would make sure that the club does meet its tax liabilities rather than make it conditional on transfer sale receipts.

 

 

I think tomphil is saying that in the event of an Armstrong sale, it’s likely that the proceeds would be used to pay off the highest priority Creditors (as Venkys should do) and not used as re-investment in the team. 

ie Armstrong proceeds will get swallowed up. 

[JHRover]

I think the other thing to remember is that pouring £20 million a year into a Championship club isn't especially unusual or unique to Rovers. There are other clubs in similar sorts of figures. This is the price of it these days.

The alarming thing here isn't that the club is losing that much a year. Its that we've done it every year for 10 years with the same owners, the 'debt' keeps on piling higher and higher. Other owners have done it but run out of money, given up, got bored, thrown toys out of the pram and walked away. Other owners take a keen interest in their clubs, actually use the money to better them by trying to get to the PL or improve their facilities and structures.

You rarely see reports on PNEs losses or how much 'debt' they owe to Hemmings, which granted won't be as high as the figures here but still substantial. I think Hemmings also wrote off his 'debt' which inevitably makes things look healthier but changes little on an operational basis as long as Venkys don't seek their 'debt' back.

Here the club decays and withers whilst the wage bill keeps on ticking over. Andy Holt can spend fortunes improving Stanley's facilities and giving out free shirts to kids whilst our £20 million a year buys us Waggott's salary and new deals for Smallwood and Gladwin.

This has generated a stockholm syndrome situation with many fans who see that eyewatering 'debt' figure and think it will be called in or need to be paid off and as a result we should be grateful for Venkys. But really it will need to be wiped off sooner or later.

[broadsword]

6 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

It’s unbelievable that people are trying to use this as evidence of us being well run.

We are well funded because we have to be… because we continue to be run absolutely terribly.

Another thing, how much longer can people continue to absolve Venky’s of all blame and pile it all on that wanker Anderson. He’s been out of the picture for at least 9 years. Apparently. 

Whats the tipping point? Half a billion? We are steadily heading towards that. They’ve wasted more than the GDP of some small countries already. Something simply has to change quickly, but nothing ever does.

"something has to change quickly". Seems like people have been saying that for years. 

"tipping point". That's the exact phrase. The point at which it can no longer be sustained. The point at which our debt undergoes cosmosis, the body of Barry Venky is transmorgified into Vigo the Carpathian, the vortex portal to the netherworld is unlocked and creaks open, releasing scarab beetles high on pcp and the ghosts of patients past will haunt Brockhall for forty days and nights. 

 

Stadium still won't get cleaned though. Tony will start droning on about wanting to get "back on the grass" once the last of the undead has been captured. 

[Mercer]

Just bear in mind these accounts are for year ending June 2020.

In the year to June 2021, income from match receipts / commercial activities will have plumetted.

Will be no surprise to me if next set accounts show a £30million loss.

Be prepared for anything.  I feel pretty certain V's will not allow this situation to continue and may well be the reason Mowbray and Waggott remain in situ (rather than shell out on termination costs) whilst options are considered.  

Edited July 8, 2021 by Mercer

[lraC]

44 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

It’s unbelievable that people are trying to use this as evidence of us being well run.

We are well funded because we have to be… because we continue to be run absolutely terribly.

Another thing, how much longer can people continue to absolve Venky’s of all blame and pile it all on that wanker Anderson. He’s been out of the picture for at least 9 years. Apparently. 

Whats the tipping point? Half a billion? We are steadily heading towards that. They’ve wasted more than the GDP of some small countries already. Something simply has to change quickly, but nothing ever does.

Being well run ........... into the ground.

[Mashed Potatoes]

15 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Just bear in mind these accounts are for year ending June 2020.

In the year to June 2021, income from match receipts / commercial activities will have plumetted.

Will be no surprise to me if next set accounts show a £30million loss.

Be prepared for anything.  I feel pretty certain V's will not allow this situation to continue and may well be the reason Mowbray and Waggott remain in situ (rather than shell out on termination costs) whilst options are considered.  

You can get an idea of how things are going by looking at the share issues by Venkys London as historically that is how the club has been funded. Interestingly the increase in the share capital between January 2020 and May 2021 has been "only" in the region of £22m whereas I would have expected more given the loss of income. Either there has been some reduction in the cost base or an increase in external borrowing or some bills have not been paid.

[tomphil]

2 hours ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

Thanks. Yes there is , although of course those accounts show the position of just over a year ago. The government did provide for deferrals for businesses in paying taxes like VAT as a result of COVID so presumably the considerable increase in the number reflects that. I would like to think that Venkys would make sure that the club does meet its tax liabilities rather than make it conditional on transfer sale receipts.

 

 

Wasn't inferring it was conditional on that but it's still something that needs squaring off eventually. So any lumps of monies coming in will go towards whatever is outstanding i'd assume.

I was more concerned that tax isn't something you can keep putting off unlike maybe re-jigging outstanding transfer money owed etc.

It's all in the outstanding debt column at the end of the day.

Edited July 8, 2021 by tomphil

[roversfan99]

He must still be getting paid by Venkys.