Championship 2018-19

[chaddyrovers]

12 minutes ago, Stuart said:

It doesn’t make them right, it just provides a different opinion.

Enjoy your day also!

Did I say it makes them right? No I didnt. You are to get a overreaction from me but I aint playing your silly pathetic childish games. 

[dingles staying down 4ever]

31 minutes ago, 47er said:

No he aint!  

Pantomine season has come early...

 

Oh yes he is......see later chats with Stuart and Chaddy.

[itfc1963]

Greetings from an Ipswich outsider.  This has been a fascinating few pages to read, especially about Paul Lambert and how people think about him here.  From an Ipswich perspective, Chaddyrovers is pretty much on the money and seems to understand the situation here.  Most fans knew McCarthy would keep us competitive and out of relegation trouble, but the relationship had soured over the last two years (as it seemed to do at Wolves with him too).  It wasn't only that some of the football on display was atrocious (I think we had one shot on target in three consecutive home games earlier in the year), it was MM's constant boasting of his previous achievements and how we were effectively very lucky to have him - for a supposedly bluff Yorkshireman he seemed to have quite a thin skin too.  It wasn't really surprising that eventually some fans (not all) turned on him and the relationship worsened rapidly.  It sort of reached a nadir in his last derby when he visibly screamed at the fans to "f*** off".  Some of the flak hurled at Ipswich fans this season about McCarthy reminded me a bit about the abuse you lot got when Steve Kean left i.e. you have to have been a fan to understand.

We are generally a pretty tolerant lot, although certain elements are getting ideas above their station.  Everyone had high hopes for Paul Hurst but he seems to have made the cardinal sin of winding up the existing players from the off, and dropping our best, and three times player of the year Bialkowski.  We were absolute certainties for relegation under him, we might have a chance under a new manager.  In out present position with the complete absence of money to spend Lambert is about the best we could hope for I reckon, I couldn't give a stuff about his Norwich past (make it all the sweeter when we finally beat them).  If I was our owner I would have said to him you're here whether we're relegated or not so get your feet under the table and get stuck in.

Edited October 26, 2018 by itfc1963

[Stuart]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

Did I say it makes them right? No I didnt. You are to get a overreaction from me but I aint playing your silly pathetic childish games. 

Never change Chaddy. ?

[JacknOry]

13 minutes ago, itfc1963 said:

Greetings from an Ipswich outsider.  This has been a fascinating few pages to read, especially about Paul Lambert and how people think about him here.  From an Ipswich perspective, Chaddyrovers is pretty much on the money and seems to understand the situation here.  Most fans knew McCarthy would keep us competitive and out of relegation trouble, but the relationship had soured over the last two years (as it seemed to do at Wolves with him too).  It wasn't only that some of the football on display was atrocious (I think we had one shot on target in three consecutive home games earlier in the year), it was MM's constant boasting of his previous achievements and how we were effectively very lucky to have him - for a supposedly bluff Yorkshireman he seemed to have quite a thin skin too.  It wasn't really surprising that eventually some fans (not all) turned on him and the relationship worsened rapidly.  It sort of reached a nadir in his last derby when he visibly screamed at the fans to "f*** off".  Some of the flak hurled at Ipswich fans this season about McCarthy reminded me a bit about the abuse you lot got when Steve Kean left i.e. you have to have been a fan to understand.

We are generally a pretty tolerant lot, although certain elements are getting ideas above their station.  Everyone had high hopes for Paul Hurst but he seems to have made the cardinal sin of winding up the existing players from the off, and dropping our best, and three times player of the year Bialkowski.  We were absolute certainties for relegation under him, we might have a chance under a new manager.  In out present position with the complete absence of money to spend Lambert is about the best we could hope for I reckon, I couldn't give a stuff about his Norwich past (make it all the sweeter when we finally beat them).  If I was our owner I would have said to him you're here whether we're relegated or not so get your feet under the table and get stuck in.

While I agree to an extent that there are similarities, the abuse you lot have got is nowhere near on the level we got. Mainstream media was all over us rather than just other fans and we were portrayed very badly.

Agree that Lambert is about the best that you could have hoped for right now but I hope his compensation package is small as he will run out on you at some point if things are not going right or he finds some other excuse. Be prepared to hear lots of stories about how he had been all over Europe taking in advice from the likes of Klopp and Pep on how to manage. His football is not that great either but he does manage to get results sometimes.

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

33 minutes ago, itfc1963 said:

Greetings from an Ipswich outsider.  This has been a fascinating few pages to read, especially about Paul Lambert and how people think about him here.  From an Ipswich perspective, Chaddyrovers is pretty much on the money and seems to understand the situation here.  Most fans knew McCarthy would keep us competitive and out of relegation trouble, but the relationship had soured over the last two years (as it seemed to do at Wolves with him too).  It wasn't only that some of the football on display was atrocious (I think we had one shot on target in three consecutive home games earlier in the year), it was MM's constant boasting of his previous achievements and how we were effectively very lucky to have him - for a supposedly bluff Yorkshireman he seemed to have quite a thin skin too.  It wasn't really surprising that eventually some fans (not all) turned on him and the relationship worsened rapidly.  It sort of reached a nadir in his last derby when he visibly screamed at the fans to "f*** off".  Some of the flak hurled at Ipswich fans this season about McCarthy reminded me a bit about the abuse you lot got when Steve Kean left i.e. you have to have been a fan to understand.

We are generally a pretty tolerant lot, although certain elements are getting ideas above their station.  Everyone had high hopes for Paul Hurst but he seems to have made the cardinal sin of winding up the existing players from the off, and dropping our best, and three times player of the year Bialkowski.  We were absolute certainties for relegation under him, we might have a chance under a new manager.  In out present position with the complete absence of money to spend Lambert is about the best we could hope for I reckon, I couldn't give a stuff about his Norwich past (make it all the sweeter when we finally beat them).  If I was our owner I would have said to him you're here whether we're relegated or not so get your feet under the table and get stuck in.

I think you are downplaying and leaving out some of the abuse McCarthy got and overplaying his reaction. Also, in no way can you compare the McCarthy and Kean situations or how the fans of both clubs were portrayed. Kean destroyed an established Premier league team, McCarthy had you punching above your paygrade, whether you care to acknowledge that or not. 

You have ended up with a very similar style of manager in Lambert to be honest. Albeit one with arguably a worse managerial record. 

 

Edited October 26, 2018 by Bigdoggsteel

[oldjamfan1]

14 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

Something not right there with the squad. far too many fractions there. 

 

At least half of them don't want to be there.

[Bigdoggsteel]

46 minutes ago, itfc1963 said:

Greetings from an Ipswich outsider.  This has been a fascinating few pages to read, especially about Paul Lambert and how people think about him here.  From an Ipswich perspective, Chaddyrovers is pretty much on the money and seems to understand the situation here.  Most fans knew McCarthy would keep us competitive and out of relegation trouble, but the relationship had soured over the last two years (as it seemed to do at Wolves with him too).  It wasn't only that some of the football on display was atrocious (I think we had one shot on target in three consecutive home games earlier in the year), it was MM's constant boasting of his previous achievements and how we were effectively very lucky to have him - for a supposedly bluff Yorkshireman he seemed to have quite a thin skin too.  It wasn't really surprising that eventually some fans (not all) turned on him and the relationship worsened rapidly.  It sort of reached a nadir in his last derby when he visibly screamed at the fans to "f*** off".  Some of the flak hurled at Ipswich fans this season about McCarthy reminded me a bit about the abuse you lot got when Steve Kean left i.e. you have to have been a fan to understand.

We are generally a pretty tolerant lot, although certain elements are getting ideas above their station.  Everyone had high hopes for Paul Hurst but he seems to have made the cardinal sin of winding up the existing players from the off, and dropping our best, and three times player of the year Bialkowski.  We were absolute certainties for relegation under him, we might have a chance under a new manager.  In out present position with the complete absence of money to spend Lambert is about the best we could hope for I reckon, I couldn't give a stuff about his Norwich past (make it all the sweeter when we finally beat them).  If I was our owner I would have said to him you're here whether we're relegated or not so get your feet under the table and get stuck in.

Alright Chaddy  

[DE.]

7 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I think you are downplaying and leaving out some of the abuse McCarthy got and overplaying his reaction. Also, in no way can you compare the McCarthy and Kean situations or how the fans of both clubs were portrayed. Kean destroyed an established Premier league team, McCarthy had you punching above your paygrade, whether you care to acknowledge that or not. 

You have ended up with a very similar style of manager in Lambert to be honest. Albeit one with arguably a worse managerial record. 

Yep, Very disingenuous to try and spin the Kean and McCarthy situations as anything similar. In fact I'd go as far as to say it's pretty offensive. The reason McCarthy snapped and yelled at the Ipswich fans to fuck off was because they'd acted like absolute dickheads towards him for months on end and fully deserved it. It was very much a case of the fans feeling they had the priveledge to hurl abuse at the manager and never get anything back. 

The fact itfc1963 didn't mention Marcus Evans once in his post but saw fit to rant about McCarthy's supposed arrogance and thin skin speaks volumes about how certain Ipswich fans simply can't see the bigger picture. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

5 minutes ago, DE. said:

Yep, Very disingenuous to try and spin the Kean and McCarthy situations as anything similar. In fact I'd go as far as to say it's pretty offensive. The reason McCarthy snapped and yelled at the Ipswich fans to fuck off was because they'd acted like absolute dickheads towards him for months on end and fully deserved it. It was very much a case of the fans feeling they had the priveledge to hurl abuse at the manager and never get anything back. 

The fact itfc1963 didn't mention Marcus Evans once in his post but saw fit to rant about McCarthy's supposed arrogance and thin skin speaks volumes about how certain Ipswich fans simply can't see the bigger picture. 

Agreed. What Kean did here was bordering on criminal, it seems the main beef iftc1963 had with McCarthy was that his team didn't have many shots on goal at home in a couple of games. He still got them to 12th in the league though all the same....

I read about some of the chants they directed at McCarthy. Very, very nasty stuff. Worse than what Kean got here even though that is hard to believe 

[itfc1963]

OK maybe the Kean/McCarthy comparison was a bit far-fetched, I get that.  We are also well aware of the limitations of our owner, although he tells managers the conditions they have to work under and they all seem to speak well of him after they've gone.  Suffice to say the time was right for him to go for all concerned.

[DE.]

4 minutes ago, itfc1963 said:

OK maybe the Kean/McCarthy comparison was a bit far-fetched, I get that.  We are also well aware of the limitations of our owner, although he tells managers the conditions they have to work under and they all seem to speak well of him after they've gone.  Suffice to say the time was right for him to go for all concerned.

A section of fans wanted MM gone, but the owner and players did not want him to go, so I don't think that is really "suffice to say".

You're right that Evans is renowned for being honest with his managers about the conditions they'll be working under. That made Hurst's whining about lack of investment recently all the more pathetic. He knew exactly what he was walking into, but when he couldn't handle the job he turned around and blamed everybody but himself. 

[Stuart]

1 hour ago, itfc1963 said:

Greetings from an Ipswich outsider.  This has been a fascinating few pages to read, especially about Paul Lambert and how people think about him here.  From an Ipswich perspective, Chaddyrovers is pretty much on the money and seems to understand the situation here.  Most fans knew McCarthy would keep us competitive and out of relegation trouble, but the relationship had soured over the last two years (as it seemed to do at Wolves with him too).  It wasn't only that some of the football on display was atrocious (I think we had one shot on target in three consecutive home games earlier in the year), it was MM's constant boasting of his previous achievements and how we were effectively very lucky to have him - for a supposedly bluff Yorkshireman he seemed to have quite a thin skin too.  It wasn't really surprising that eventually some fans (not all) turned on him and the relationship worsened rapidly.  It sort of reached a nadir in his last derby when he visibly screamed at the fans to "f*** off".  Some of the flak hurled at Ipswich fans this season about McCarthy reminded me a bit about the abuse you lot got when Steve Kean left i.e. you have to have been a fan to understand.

We are generally a pretty tolerant lot, although certain elements are getting ideas above their station.  Everyone had high hopes for Paul Hurst but he seems to have made the cardinal sin of winding up the existing players from the off, and dropping our best, and three times player of the year Bialkowski.  We were absolute certainties for relegation under him, we might have a chance under a new manager.  In out present position with the complete absence of money to spend Lambert is about the best we could hope for I reckon, I couldn't give a stuff about his Norwich past (make it all the sweeter when we finally beat them).  If I was our owner I would have said to him you're here whether we're relegated or not so get your feet under the table and get stuck in.

McCarthy and Kean should not be uttered in the same breath. I suspect you are one of those who has no idea of the extent of Kean’s time heat so trust me when I say: don’t even go there.

The comparison you should be making is between McCarthy and Allardyce. The similarities are there for all to see. Dire but effective (over a season) football, brash confidence to the point of arrogance, leaving and it all falling apart because the job done by each wasn’t valued and because they were replaced by poor appointments. Although Hurst did have potential and, to some extent, pedigree.

The reason their job wasn’t valued is because of the nature of football, the ebb and flow, the ups-and-downs. Fans can accept good and bad times (again this doesn’t apply to Kean) - but their patience will wane after too long a period of stagnation (which some fans call stability). We have had some interesting phases of recent management which I hope Ipswich are wise enough to avoid.

Ince - the last mistake of the old regime. Was given the role on the basis of being the next Mark Hughes but he was found to be well out of his depth. Shouting at players and giving it the Big I Am will impress L2 players but not PL ones. Should have gone sooner.

Allardyce - steady, effective but would put in some awful displays and virtually write-off most away games. At first fans appreciated his influence after the Ince debacle. He wasn’t universally liked, it’s fair to say, but most fans begrudgingly accepted his results if not his methods. He was exactly what this club needed until the new Sky deal came along (which is only about 30% hindsight).

Kean - should never ever have been near a management job, let alone a top half/mid-table PL one. He was hired for one reason and one reason only - and it wasn’t for the football. He is now in footballing backwaters.

Bowyer Mk1/Berg/Appleton - a ridiculous period for the club. So much boardroom infighting and interference it was borderline neglect. Berg had potential but never had a chance.

Bowyer Mk2 - steadied the ship but in truth benefitted from the calm caused by the breakup of the boardroom - and had far more power than he could ever have expected. Papered over the cracks and by default squandered our last chance at a PL return. Nice chap but not the answer.

Lambert - saved us from relegation even after selling our star striker, relying on loans and freebies, and allegedly having promised reneged on. Don’t blame him for going but it also meant a very experienced and respected back room team going as well.

Coyle - an outrageous appointment from the same stable as Kean who - to add insult to injury - had a single previous success on his CV: promoting our 6-fingered cousins down the road to the PL. After terms with Neil Warnock were (allegedly) all but agreed our FD/CEO went on holiday and the cheap and fearful FKW joined instead. Our fate was sealed in June before the season had even started. Signs of a return of the dark forces.

Mowbray - a very underwhelming appointment who (looking at it objectively) lived up to initial expectations by not saving us from relegation. As it turned out he was exactly the right guy to have the following season and he has turned the club around.

You need to hope that Lambert gets to do the job he is appointed for and try to ignore any Norwich connections. I’d also suggest you need to accept a return to consistency rather than a bounce in the short term. Lambert will introduce a level of professionalism that was maybe too big a job for Hurst. I just home he doesn’t come in for Bennett or Graham in January as his lieutenants. He hasn’t previously though so that’s unlikely.

You might wish you had appreciated McCarthy a little more and that your chairman had backed him with funds. Most non-Ipswich fans will probably feel for McCarthy because of his previous record and being able to keep going season after season with no money. Perhaps you will have a different view. I maintain though that it was nothing like the Kean situation.

Edited October 26, 2018 by Stuart

[itfc1963]

No, the owner was quite clear in his interview after MM went that his role had run its course.  Not just because of the fans but because results had been deteriorating for two years.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Can I just ask, what does Evans hope to achieve there without investment? If he gave McCarthy £10 million I bet he would have had a fair stab at the play offs. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 minute ago, Stuart said:

McCarthy and Kean should not be uttered in the same breath. I suspect you are one of those who has no idea of the extent of Kean’s time heat so trust me when I say: don’t even go there.

The comparison you should be making is between McCarthy and Allardyce. The similarities are there for all to see. Dire but effective (over a season) football, brash confidence to the point of arrogance, leaving and it all falling apart because the job done by each wasn’t valued and because they were replaced by poor appointments. Although Hurst did have potential and, to some extent, pedigree.

The reason their job wasn’t valued is because of the nature of football, the ebb and flow, the ups-and-downs. Fans can accept good and bad times (again this doesn’t apply to Kean) - but their patience will wane after too long a period of stagnation (which some fans call stability). We have had some interesting phases of recent management which I hope Ipswich are wise enough to avoid.

Ince - the last mistake of the old regime. Was given the role on the basis of being the next Mark Hughes but he was found to be well out of his depth. Shouting at players and giving it the Big I Am will impress L2 players but not PL ones. Should have gone sooner.

Allardyce - steady, effective but would put in some awful displays and virtually write-off most away games. At first fans appreciated his influence after the Ince debacle. He wasn’t universally liked, it’s fair to say, but most fans begrudgingly accepted his results if not his methods. He was exactly what this club needed until the new Sky deal came along (which is only about 30% hindsight).

Kean - should never ever have been near a management job, let alone a top half/mid-table PL one. He was hired for one reason and one reason only - and it wasn’t for the football. He is now in footballing backwaters.

Bowyer Mk1/Berg/Appleton - a ridiculous period for the club. So much boardroom infighting and interference it was borderline neglect. Berg had potential but never had a chance.

Bowyer Mk2 - steadied the ship but in truth benefitted from the calm caused by the breakup of the boardroom - and had far more power than he could ever have expected. Papered over the cracks and by default squandered our last chance at a PL return. Nice chap but not the answer.

Coyle - an outrageous appointment from the same stable as Kean who - to add insult to injury - had a single previous success on his CV: promoting our 6-fingered cousins down the road to the PL. After terms with Neil Warnock were (allegedly) all but agreed our FD/CEO went on holiday and the cheap and fearful FKW joined instead. Our fate was sealed in June before the season had even started. Signs of a return of the dark forces.

Lambert - saved us from relegation even after selling our star striker, relying on loans and freebies, and allegedly having promised reneged on. Don’t blame him for going but it also meant a very experienced and respected back room team going as well.

Mowbray - a very underwhelming appointment who (looking at it objectively) lived up to initial expectations by not saving us from relegation. As it turned out he was exactly the right guy to have the following season and he has turned the club around.

You need to hope that Lambert gets to do the job he is appointed for and try to ignore any Norwich connections. I’d also suggest you need to accept a return to consistency rather than a bounce in the short term. Lambert will introduce a level of professionalism that was maybe too big a job for Hurst. I just home he doesn’t come in for Bennett or Graham in January as his lieutenants. He hasn’t previously though so that’s unlikely.

You might wish you had appreciated McCarthy a little more and that your chairman had backed him with funds. Most non-Ipswich fans will probably feel for McCarthy because of his previous record and being able to keep going season after season with no money. Perhaps you will have a different view. I maintain though that it was nothing like the Kean situation.

I think,for once, you are downplaying how bad things were! It was far, far worse than borderline neglect. 

Good post though 

[itfc1963]

13 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Can I just ask, what does Evans hope to achieve there without investment? If he gave McCarthy £10 million I bet he would have had a fair stab at the play offs. 

 

You tell me.  I think after giving Roy Keane a few quid and seeing the disaster that turned into he decided once bitten twice shy.  Since he took over the Championship has become much more competitive and we're not keeping up.

Sorry if my Steve Kean comments touched a raw nerve or brought back too many painful memories.

[DE.]

As Stuart said, Allardyce would have been a better comparison. Many similarities there and the same arguments going on now on ITFC forums between anti-Mick and pro-Mick factions were had on here for years after Sam left. 

It'll be very interesting to see how Lambert gets on. For various reasons the knives were out for him on day one from certain posters on here, but two of his signings in Graham and Bennett have become crucial to our recent successes and he was the first manager since Venky's arrived to speak candidly about the very real issues the club had. He pulled no punches and never tried to bullshit, which I respected. 

He's got a real task at Ipswich though. I'm a little surprised he took it considering the squad and budget. He's either very confident or very desperate. 

[Stuart]

8 minutes ago, itfc1963 said:

You tell me.  I think after giving Roy Keane a few quid and seeing the disaster that turned into he decided once bitten twice shy.  Since he took over the Championship has become much more competitive and we're not keeping up.

Sorry if my Steve Kean comments touched a raw nerve or brought back too many painful memories.

I’m afraid that nerve will always be raw.

The fact that fans of other clubs never seem to get why he was vilified and why we resorted to protests is also a trigger. Even worse some fans still think he was treated badly!

[Mattyblue]

‘You were top of the league when you finally hounded him out’

’serves them right after how they treat Kean’

End of the day, he’s not had a sniff of a job at any level in this country since, says it all.

Edited October 26, 2018 by Mattyblue

[Bigdoggsteel]

57 minutes ago, DE. said:

As Stuart said, Allardyce would have been a better comparison. Many similarities there and the same arguments going on now on ITFC forums between anti-Mick and pro-Mick factions were had on here for years after Sam left. 

It'll be very interesting to see how Lambert gets on. For various reasons the knives were out for him on day one from certain posters on here, but two of his signings in Graham and Bennett have become crucial to our recent successes and he was the first manager since Venky's arrived to speak candidly about the very real issues the club had. He pulled no punches and never tried to bullshit, which I respected. 

He's got a real task at Ipswich though. I'm a little surprised he took it considering the squad and budget. He's either very confident or very desperate. 

Looking at his recent jobs, I would say desperate 

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 hour ago, itfc1963 said:

 

You tell me.  I think after giving Roy Keane a few quid and seeing the disaster that turned into he decided once bitten twice shy.  Since he took over the Championship has become much more competitive and we're not keeping up.

Sorry if my Steve Kean comments touched a raw nerve or brought back too many painful memories.

I think fans have started to heal. There was even an acknowledgement a few months back of it being 6 years since his sacking. I think it was the 1st time people could talk about it in a somewhat light hearted way. I know that mind sound over the top, but his reign was like an inescapable nightmare. Obviously ,it's only football and there are far more important things in life, but football is a huge part of peoples lives and that was a dark time. I stopped watching match of the day after a few games under Keans "management" and I haven't gone back watching it since. I used to hate watching us and dread checking the scores if I didn't. We have the right man at the club now though and that's great to see. 

On your 1st paragraph, sounds like an easy out for the owner. Keane is completely unpredictable, him spending money could either go very well or very badly. There is no middle ground with him. I would be fairly sure McCarthy would have spent it far more practically and motivated whomever he bought far more effectively. 

 

Edited October 26, 2018 by Bigdoggsteel

[JacknOry]

21 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

‘You were top of the league when you finally hounded him out’

’serves them right after how they treat Kean’

End of the day, he’s not had a sniff of a job at any level in this country since, says it all.

Is he still managing in the footballing crazy nation of Brunei? I would find out myself but cannt bring myself to type his name into Google for fear of seeing his ugly mug again.

Edited October 26, 2018 by JacknOry

[JHRover]

2 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

Is he still managing in the footballing crazy nation of Brunei? I would find out myself but cannt bring myself to type his name into Google for fear of seeing his ugly mug again.

No, finished there at the end of last year. No doubt he'll still have a few bank accounts out there to take advantage of their tax laws.....convenient

He's just waiting for Brendan Rodgers or David Moyes to offer him a job after they were so vocal in their praise of him when he was at Rovers.

Edited October 26, 2018 by JHRover

[Oldgregg86]

3 hours ago, itfc1963 said:

, Chaddyrovers is pretty much on the money and seems to understand the situation here. 

Oh no he isn't ?