Championship 2018-19

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Owlsonlineadmin said:

Sadly fella the Championship has become the league where £10m net spends are now the norm. When Villa and the Jawdees came down a couple of years ago they just decimated the transfer market cos they had parachute payments, average players moved for 8 figure fees and wages rose, other clubs had to compete and now we see the effects biting. 

Players previously 3-4m are going for 4 times that but then the EFL want FFP. Stoke have done it this year and no doubt the club's coming down will do the same.

They aren't the norm at all. The key word was 'net'. Go through last summers spends. Rovers were about 6th or 7th highest 'net' spenders in the Championship.

The teams that spend a lot have normally come down from the Prem and have sold 2 or 3 stars for big money. Most clubs in the Championship still spend very little 'net'. 

[Stuart]

8 hours ago, S8 & Blue said:

Good points, as usual well made.

I think what I’m post-publy getting at is that I really don’t think we can have expected or “demanded” a playoff push. 

We may have spent money , but throwing more on the fire in January wasn’t a sensible move for me.

We just aren’t good enough throughout yet.

Who’s “fault” or failing that is is almost a separate conversation, and for me it is too early to point fingers during what I think can still shape up to be a relatively successful season.

But I suppose you all know I think that already!

That’s a really strange phrase to use. Do you not trust Bowyer to spend it wisely either?

Bringing in the right one or two players in January to try to cement a play-off place with over half the season gone and very much in the mix? Or masterminding a play-off season from scratch when losing a key player like Reed at the end of it, and needing to bring in those same missing players, and more, in the Summer? Unless a play-off position isn’t the aim for a settled Mowbray - who doesn’t like raising expectations for fear of failure.

If we had struggled this season and we stayed up by working damned hard in every game, with a clear gulf in quality then I could understand this acceptance of a “consolation season”. As it is, that hasn’t been the case. We have competed up to the end of January and that’s when we needed to capitalise. Instead, “we kept our powder dry” - something we haven’t been all that good at it recent times.

You really think Venkys weren’t willing to back him? Do you really need me to dig out all of Mowbray’s quotes saying the opposite?

[Tom Stinny]

I don't think you get the chance to build slowly in the championship. Let's look at next season. We are going to need 7/8 players to either go in the team or strengthen the squad.

 

Norwich for example have had a handful come through the youth and brought 3/4 in by very good business. So even they haven't built slowly.

 

It depends what is meant by building slowly though. Is it 2 players a window? Or 3/4 million spent per window? You don't get the chance to build slowly and like someone else has said. Reed most likely won't be here next season.

 

Mulgrew is looking busted at this level. Dack may decide to leave and Graham can't keep defying the odds every year. The chance for me was this season as the manager hasn't shown he's a transfer guru, he's more a get 1 good player then get 4 bad players. 

 

Or he'll sign players and not use them, like now, if the season is near enough secured then get a few younger players in as well as your Rothwells, Chapmans and Breretons and see if they can handle it for next season.

 

We've got to identify and address whose good enough, who isn't so that once the summer kicks in we can be quick off the mark and get positions dealt with with good business. Qualify over quantity.

 

By the way I'm sure you were backing the bolonga rumour even though myself and a few others said it was crazy, money should go elsewhere. Could be wrong though?

[Stuart]

Not sure backing is the word you meant. I believe that he shouldn’t have been be beyond our reach (had we not signed Brereton) and that he was better than what he had. The thing is if Graham scores a couple of goals suddenly folk think we don’t have a problem. Signing Brereton was a poor use of money but Mowbray told us all there’s more where that came from, for the right players, and he would decide who they were.

If you are going to start looking back at my thoughts though, try the ones where I believed (and still believe) we are short at the back.

We have it all to do next season and where a few additions - including a striker to help score 4 while we concede 3 - might have got us from 7th/8th into 5th/6th, we now need a complete rethink - especially with Graham and Mulgrew another year older.

[Mattyblue]

We’ve somehow  got though to mid March with one experienced striker. The (surprising) robustness of Graham has saved Mowbray’s bacon, as recruitment at the top end of the pitch has been as bizarre as centre half.

Edited March 16, 2019 by Mattyblue

[Blue blood]

Just now, Mattyblue said:

We’ve somehow  got though to mid March with one experienced striker. The (surprising) robustness of Graham has saved Mowbray’s bacon, as recruitment at the top end of the pitch has been as bizarre as centre half.

Yeah, when you put it like that. One position of neglect is criminal. Two...

[SBlue]

33 minutes ago, Tom Stinny said:

By the way I'm sure you were backing the bolonga rumour even though myself and a few others said it was crazy, money should go elsewhere. Could be wrong though?

I certainly did.

But I am daft as a brush.

 

[JBiz]

For me, it’s been a good season so far. Comfortably competing at this level without too many changes to the first 11, plenty of investment of time and money into youth projects like Travis and Brereton - the trajectory is good in my opinion.

Much of that comes down to having a really good manager and an ownership prepared to keep put some money into fees, funding the youth setup and covering the wage gap. I don’t subscribe to the theory it’s now or never. I think our best chance to rebuild to a consistent premier league outfit is through our academy, a long term project - and the signs are good for me.

The likes of Butterworth, Chapman, Davenport, Magloire, BB, Rankin Costello, Buckley etc, all look potential stars -  we have an absolute plethora of exciting prospects.

It’s a really exciting time for me anyway. I know some expect us to be fighting for silverware and promotion every season, but I don’t think that’s realistic.

That said. If we had been in the playoffs this season, the criticism would be why aren’t we going for automatic!

If you think that’s not true, just remember twelve months ago - people criticised the team for not winning the league...

[Mattyblue]

I’m fine with finishing mid table, considering the haphazard recruitment we couldn’t have achieved much more.

Biggest summer in a long time coming up. Could make or break the next few years.

Edited March 16, 2019 by Mattyblue

[blueboy3333]

£7m 'youth prospect' LOL. 

[JBiz]

7 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

£7m 'youth prospect' LOL. 

He’s 19 mate. 

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Biz said:

He’s 19 mate. 

He cost £7m mate. 

[JBiz]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

He cost £7m mate. 

And? Youth is not price, it’s age mate.

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Biz said:

And? Youth is not price, it’s age mate.

I know mate. But for £7m you'd want 'a really good manager' to be able to get more than a just 'youth project'. Unless of course we are the Real Madrid of t'north. 

[JBiz]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

I know mate. But for £7m you'd want 'a really good manager' to be able to get more than a just 'youth project'. Unless of course we are the Real Madrid of t'north. 

Well thing is Blue boy, I still don’t think he cost 7m, and I still don’t think the club had that sort of figure to spend on just anyone, of any wage/age. Hence why I’m happy to see us add quality youth players, excited by the amount of prospects we have.

If you’d told me 12 months on from last summer, we’d have Armstrong, Brereton and Chapman - I would’ve been surprised. The irony is, Rothwell (a largely unknown free) potentially looks the best out of all of them!

Hindsight is great isn’t it  

[blueboy3333]

Rothwell wasn't free and he can't get in the team, just like BB and just like Chapman when he was last here.

Tony's homework this summer is to spend money on players that actually improve the team. Not £7m 'youth projects'. 

[47er]

3 minutes ago, Biz said:

Well thing is Blue boy, I still don’t think he cost 7m, and I still don’t think the club had that sort of figure to spend on just anyone, of any wage/age. Hence why I’m happy to see us add quality youth players, excited by the amount of prospects we have.

If you’d told me 12 months on from last summer, we’d have Armstrong, Brereton and Chapman - I would’ve been surprised. The irony is, Rothwell (a largely unknown free) potentially looks the best out of all of them!

Hindsight is great isn’t it  

I knew hindsight would come into it sooner or later! Disrespectful towards those who didn't need hindsight to know the Brereton deal stank.

[JBiz]

9 minutes ago, 47er said:

I knew hindsight would come into it sooner or later! Disrespectful towards those who didn't need hindsight to know the Brereton deal stank.

Stank of what? Potential.

 

[Pedro]

20 minutes ago, Biz said:

Well thing is Blue boy, I still don’t think he cost 7m, and I still don’t think the club had that sort of figure to spend on just anyone, of any wage/age. Hence why I’m happy to see us add quality youth players, excited by the amount of prospects we have.

If you’d told me 12 months on from last summer, we’d have Armstrong, Brereton and Chapman - I would’ve been surprised. The irony is, Rothwell (a largely unknown free) potentially looks the best out of all of them!

Hindsight is great isn’t it  

To be fair, that is quite a chunk of the recent England youth set up.

[47er]

Just now, Biz said:

Stank of what? Potential.

 

Good old Biz, you've had a good rest I take it? 

7M quid in the hope of potential! Not what 7 points ahead of us Preston did is it?

 Not as if we needed defenders either!

[Tom Stinny]

1 hour ago, Biz said:

That said. If we had been in the playoffs this season, the criticism would be why aren’t we going for automatic!

If you think that’s not true, just remember twelve months ago - people criticised the team for not winning the league...

You had me up till this point. A manager and his team should be able to adapt to changing situations. To be on the edge of the playoffs and not go for it was criminal because it's taking for granted that we will improve next season. I don't know if you were around during the bowyer time but it's very similar. Close to playoffs. Don't achieve them. A season or two of averageness and then mass selling. 

 

I also think your trying to dig at people who wanted us to go for the playoffs by saying "oh you would have wanted automatics next". No one mentioned that but let's look at it this way. Everyone and their dog wanted the defence strengthened in January. It didn't happen and look at results afterwards. It validated that worry ten fold. 

 

Also he should have won the league 1 cup. He had the most funds. The best team and the best three individuals in the league in Mulgrew, Dack and Graham. When your centre half scores more than most strikers do you SHOULD win the league.

[Exiled in Toronto]

26 minutes ago, 47er said:

Good old Biz, you've had a good rest I take it? 

7M quid in the hope of potential! Not what 7 points ahead of us Preston did is it?

 Not as if we needed defenders either!

I was under the impression it was more the players who almost got them in the play offs last year returning from injury that has propelled Preston ahead of us. 

[JBiz]

12 minutes ago, Tom Stinny said:

You had me up till this point. A manager and his team should be able to adapt to changing situations. To be on the edge of the playoffs and not go for it was criminal because it's taking for granted that we will improve next season. I don't know if you were around during the bowyer time but it's very similar. Close to playoffs. Don't achieve them. A season or two of averageness and then mass selling. 

 

I also think your trying to dig at people who wanted us to go for the playoffs by saying "oh you would have wanted automatics next". No one mentioned that but let's look at it this way. Everyone and their dog wanted the defence strengthened in January. It didn't happen and look at results afterwards. It validated that worry ten fold. 

 

Also he should have won the league 1 cup. He had the most funds. The best team and the best three individuals in the league in Mulgrew, Dack and Graham. When your centre half scores more than most strikers do you SHOULD win the league.

It’s the same in every situation Tom.

Doesn’t matter what happens - people will find criticism. The example of last season (that you actually help make) for criticism due to “only” finishing 2nd is a perfect one. If football was ever as simple as most cash = best players = most trophies, none of us would watch it.

The minimum expectation was an immediate return. Despite the squad turnover and poor start - this was easily achieved. I simply don’t agree in way in which this achievement is glossed over for criticism, much like being safe this season is.

Club/team is well on the right track for me.

[Tom Stinny]

3 minutes ago, Biz said:

It’s the same in every situation Tom.

Doesn’t matter what happens - people will find criticism. The example of last season (that you actually help make) for criticism due to “only” finishing 2nd is a perfect one. If football was ever as simple as most cash = best players = most trophies, none of us would watch it.

The minimum expectation was an immediate return. Despite the squad turnover and poor start - this was easily achieved. I simply don’t agree in way in which this achievement is glossed over for criticism, much like being safe this season is.

Club/team is well on the right track for me.

How do we assess any manager that we have then? Either now or in the future. Last season's target was promotion. This seasons was getting a foothold in the championship. But next season or the one after that? If we are still between 15th and 10th after that are we hitting targets?

 

That's the only reason I get on his back because we need to improve every year but he's been here two years and hasn't sorted the defence as an example. Why would that change in another two years? If you understand my point.

[Stuart]

2 hours ago, Biz said:

The likes of Butterworth, Chapman, Davenport, Magloire, BB, Rankin Costello, Buckley etc, all look potential stars -  we have an absolute plethora of exciting prospects.

I agree with you but will Mowbray play them? And would you be critical of Mowbray if he didn’t?

We are now playing dead rubber games until the end of the season. Will he play many... any... of our youngsters, planning for the future? Or will he carry on picking his favourites because he trusts them?

2 hours ago, Biz said:

That said. If we had been in the playoffs this season, the criticism would be why aren’t we going for automatic!

If you think that’s not true, just remember twelve months ago - people criticised the team for not winning the league...

You are ignoring context.

If we were 7th and didn’t recruit...?

If we were second and picked a dud team...?

If we were 3rd and could have gone for the automatic spot...

I didn’t criticise ‘the team’, I criticised - and continue to criticise - Mowbray for a lack of ambition, and for his inabilities in recruitment, tactics and organisation. Instead falling back on loyalty and tub-thumping, while making more and more bizarre comments in the local rag.

He gets away with all this though because fans are delighted with being safe this season when we could have easily been where Preston are: 9th and two points off the play-offs.