Supporters Consultation Meeting - Thursday 21st June

[Madon]

Had no idea this was on tonight!?

Usually go to provide the updates for BRFCS.

[Bigdoggsteel]

There are live updates on the LT

Sounds like fans made it clear they support Mowbray and the players 100%,but that issues with the venkys run deep. Some blamed them for the low attendances. Mowbray said they don't think they need to apologise as they are putting in 25 million a season to run the club. Said if we are within touching distance of the play offs in January the owners will ask "what do you need?". The venkys chat seemed to end when one fan said that football people are now running the club, leave the owners in the background. 

Edited November 22, 2018 by Bigdoggsteel

[OldEwoodBlue]

25 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

The ‘local promotion’ rule looks as if it’s been discontinued. I read it that they want their £27 from the away support...

Confirmation the priority is cash not attendances.

At least we all now know what we already knew.

Thats that then.

[Bigdoggsteel]

I thought Mowbrays comments on Dack were interesting. Said he told Dack that he owes the club short term, but medium term the team needs to keep up with him. Said he won't be sold this window, but if he does leave for 25 million plus he hopes to get a large chunk to spend on 2-3 players. Pretty much what we all predicted will happen at some point 

He said a deal for Reed would be difficult to pull off for different reasons 

Edited November 22, 2018 by Bigdoggsteel

[JHRover]

Hmmm. One or two bits I picked up on. I noticed Mowbray mentioned that the owners probably don't feel they've done much wrong as they chuck their £25 million a year into the club. Firstly, the reason they were chucking such amounts in was to cover their own mistakes and errors. Secondly, I sincerely hope that they aren't putting that amount in any more. If they are after all the cutbacks and wage reductions we've had there's something wrong somewhere in the financial management of the club and we're going to get screwed with FFP. I suspect Mowbray is, once again, exaggerating quite a lot, like he has on numerous occasions including when mentioning other club's support and what he thinks we can get.

References to the 'old days' of Division 2 are about as relevant as references to the 1950's. Both ancient history in football terms. Crowds in the 80s were the nadir in English football and even the likes of United not getting that many on. Comparing what we got in 1985 to what we get now doesn't mean much. Football has a different audience and is a different 'product' to what it was then.

It appears we're currently 'only' 1000 or so away from Waggott's 'break even' attendance. I don't see that distance as insurmountable but the progress and professionalism of the last 12 months needs to be sustained and worked on over a prolonged period. We've a lot of damage to repair and a lot of ground to make up when compared to rivals who haven't gone about insulting their own fanbase for 7 years. I believe with some hard work that figure should be achieveable.

It is a slow, multi-year process. Waggott hasn't been here long, nor has Mowbray. It is ok isolating the success of the last 12 months and saying the fans should be doing more but you can't look at it that way. The fanbase have been burned numerous times before so it is baby steps. I'm not believing a corner has been turned as it will take more than 12 months of positivity, especially after what happened under Bowyer.

So no use wailing at this stage. Knuckle down and work your socks off to grow it gradually year on year and keep people coming back. Closing stands and bumping prices up won't do that.

Not sure precisely what he means by 'break even'. I'm assuming that means the cost of opening Ewood and hosting the fixture rather than covering all the salaries etc. for the club. 

No reference that I've seen to the nonsensical 12noon kick offs but then again we've heard it all before.

Edited November 22, 2018 by JHRover

[Miller11]

To summarise...

 

Fans are viewed as customers by the board. The players do seem to appreciate them though.

No interest in improving relations with fans unless there is money in it.

Everyone hopes we can keep hold of Dack.

I’m really glad Fish said what he did, and I hope it’s taken on board. Despite all on the top table towing the Venky line, it’s very clear our owners just don’t get it. They never will, and for that reason re-engaging a lot of the fan base will by nigh on impossible.

[Mattyblue]

In my view, the problem with Waggott is he just doesn’t seem to get the Rovers fanbase. He sees a 31,000 ground and a famous name, so improve the results and gates will improve markedly, not a lot else to do.

Sorry Steve, it doesn’t work like that here.

We are a club with a limited fanbase, based in a non affluent town with challenging demographics, in a highly competitive region. Season tickets between £320 and £400, match tickets at £24-£30 for mid table Championship football and he expects 16,000 gates?

We have 10-12,000 that turn up year in year out, but at this level we have to work hard to get it much higher. We aren’t based in an area like Waggott’s old stomping ground of Coventry, yes they are in the doldrums, but they have a big potential support in a city three times the size of Blackburn and a fanbase that stretches across Warwickshire (no other league clubs to compete with).

John Williams got it but it just doesn’t look like this guy will.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Mattyblue said:

In my view, the problem with Waggott is he just doesn’t seem to get the Rovers fanbase. He sees a 31,000 ground and a famous name, so improve the results and gates will improve markedly, not a lot else to do.

Sorry Steve, it doesn’t work like that here.

We are a club with a limited fanbase, based in a non affluent town with challenging demographics, in a highly competitive region. Season tickets between £320 and £400, match tickets at £24-£30 for mid table Championship football and he expects 16,000 gates?

We have 10-12,000 that turn up year in year out, but at this level we have to work hard to get it much higher. We aren’t based in an area like Waggott’s old stomping ground of Coventry, yes they are in the doldrums, but they have a big potential support in a city three times the size of Blackburn and a fanbase that stretches across Warwickshire (no other league clubs to compete with).

John Williams got it but it just doesn’t look like this guy will.

There were over 30,000 at the Oxford game

[JBiz]

1 hour ago, Franky said:

Confirmation the priority is cash not attendances.

At least we all now know what we already knew.

Thats that then.

Oxymoronic again. Higher attendances = more cash. 

[Mattyblue]

26,000 Rovers fans paying £10 for a one off promotion party, what’s your point BDS?

The fact we haven’t had more than around 12/13,000 home fans for pretty much every other league game since 2012 is a much better barometer. 

[JBiz]

1 minute ago, Mattyblue said:

In my view, the problem with Waggott is he just doesn’t seem to get the Rovers fanbase. He sees a 31,000 ground and a famous name, so improve the results and gates will improve markedly, not a lot else to do.

Problem is history proves this is correct. What was the attendance average last prolonged period outside the top flight or our last third division average?

Theres more to do but I have some sympathy with the current suits at the club since they’ve inherited a complete basket case. It’s not price people will take time to get over, it’s “Venkys!”

[Mattyblue]

History proves what?

Going from the third division to mid table in the second division isn’t ‘success’ for Blackburn Rovers, so crowds aren’t suddenly going to rise by 4/5000 (to meet Waggott’s break even figure), especially with a 17% increase in price.

[JHRover]

Wigan won League One, until recently were neck and neck with us in the Championship, yet their crowds have stood still, and I don't think they hiked prices or booted home fans out of their seats. 

Point being we aren't alone in these challenges. The towns and the smaller catchment areas all face similar issues.

Edited November 22, 2018 by JHRover

[JHRover]

The only way of ending the benefactor model is by getting to the Prem or by a massive player sale every couple of years. Isn't going to happen by a few thousand more fans 20x a year.

That applies to ALL clubs in the Championship. Even those getting 20000 a week need owners to pump cash in.

[JBiz]

Just now, JHRover said:

The only way of ending the benefactor model is by getting to the Prem or by a massive player sale every couple of years. Isn't going to happen by a few thousand more fans 20x a year.

That applies to ALL clubs in the Championship. Even those getting 20000 a week need owners to pump cash in.

This is definitely true hence our ability to subsidise tickets for years during the 2000s with tv money. Again, our academy probably costs about our ST revenue alone. 

[JHRover]

It really is strange the way they're looking at it. Waggott seems to be tasked or at least has taken it upon himself to try and move the club in the direction of self-sustainability and reduced reliance on Venkys, which sounds great but is very difficult. 

The basis of this obsession is on the number of fans coming through the turnstiles, yet even the biggest supported clubs at this level - Villa, Forest, Derby, Wednesday - have only spent what they have due to massive investment from their owners. Prior to their takeovers they were hard up despite big gates. Norwich have sold numerous players for big money to fund their crop such as Murphy and Maddison.

Yet we were told over the summer that Mowbray had to put the brakes on with Venkys as they were getting ahead of themselves after promotion, we saw them apparently spend £7 million on a teenager and we're told tonight that if we're in the pack come January they expect Venkys to pump more in. So none of that stacks up with sustainability or reduced reliance on Venkys. Infact, the Brereton deal, whilst welcome investment, probably outstripped all of Waggott's 'efforts' to increase receipts in one swoop.

[blueboy3333]

35 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

’m really glad Fish said what he did, and I hope it’s taken on board.

????????

What did he say?

Edited November 22, 2018 by blueboy3333

[blueboy3333]

Reading the LT summary it says a fan suggested Venky's should apologise. How does that work if they are putting £25m or even just £10m a year.  Why would they apologise? Everybody gets why they are not liked but an apology? Their point of view will be 'we put loads of money in and you want an apology as well'.

It's a bit nuts to be honest.

[blueboy3333]

26 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

There were over 30,000 at the Oxford game

There weren't. 

[Miller11]

2 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

????????

What did he say?

Basically that Venky’s should stay away and leave the running of the club to the people sat there.

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Miller11 said:

Basically that Venky’s should stay away and leave the running of the club to the people sat there.

Can't argue with that. Best of a bad lot. 

[JHRover]

Did Rob Coar have ANYTHING to say tonight?

[Stuart]

2 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

I’m reading a lot of;

‘Darwen End, not enough demand, so we shut it’

’Radio Rovers wont be brought back, too expensive’

’We need 15,500-16,000 averages to break even and we aren’t hitting it’

 

All undoubtably true, but anyone asking why this is this the case? Why aren’t we hitting  the break even figure, why we can’t afford these things and what are they going to do about it?

And at the same time we are spending £7m on a striker to play on the right and talking about spending more in January.

If money is no object, get the fans back on side!

[Bigdoggsteel]

14 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

Can't argue with that. Best of a bad lot. 

Mowbray was sitting there too. A bit harsh, no? 

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

There are live updates on the LT

Sounds like fans made it clear they support Mowbray and the players 100%,but that issues with the venkys run deep. Some blamed them for the low attendances. Mowbray said they don't think they need to apologise as they are putting in 25 million a season to run the club. Said if we are within touching distance of the play offs in January the owners will ask "what do you need?". The venkys chat seemed to end when one fan said that football people are now running the club, leave the owners in the background. 

I personally dont care about any apology from the owners, but I appreciate that it matters to some. Mowbrays comments saying they dont need to apologise shows complete ignorance to whats gone before him.

51 minutes ago, Biz said:

Oxymoronic again. Higher attendances = more cash. 

Not as cut and dried as that. A decrease in price of tickets would cause an increase in attendances.

53 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

In my view, the problem with Waggott is he just doesn’t seem to get the Rovers fanbase. He sees a 31,000 ground and a famous name, so improve the results and gates will improve markedly, not a lot else to do.

Sorry Steve, it doesn’t work like that here.

We are a club with a limited fanbase, based in a non affluent town with challenging demographics, in a highly competitive region. Season tickets between £320 and £400, match tickets at £24-£30 for mid table Championship football and he expects 16,000 gates?

We have 10-12,000 that turn up year in year out, but at this level we have to work hard to get it much higher. We aren’t based in an area like Waggott’s old stomping ground of Coventry, yes they are in the doldrums, but they have a big potential support in a city three times the size of Blackburn and a fanbase that stretches across Warwickshire (no other league clubs to compete with).

John Williams got it but it just doesn’t look like this guy will.

Waggott displayed his ignorance towards our history with recent comments about attendances prior to his appointment.