Hull away

[rigger]

8 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Lets not try and shoehorn anyone else in a position that isn't their natural one. We have Armstrong and Nuttall who can play upfront against Carlisle 

But Armstrong and Nuttall are not targetman types, Palmer could be, try it against lesser opponents to start with.

[Bigdoggsteel]

18 minutes ago, rigger said:

But Armstrong and Nuttall are not targetman types, Palmer could be, try it against lesser opponents to start with.

Palmer isn't even a striker though, how do you work out he is a target man? I would prefer Nutall or Samuel givent he opportunity, they aren't much smaller than DG, if they even are smaller. They should watch DG and learn how to play the role. Correct that Armstrong isn't or never will be a target man.  I would like Wickham as he is 6 foot 3 , well built. It would be great to have a big lad up there With ;Dack, Armstrong, Palmer, Samuel, Bennett and whoever playing off them 

Edited August 13, 2018 by Bigdoggsteel

[islander200]

1 minute ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Palmer isn't even a striker though, how do you work out he is a target man? I would prefer Nutall or Samuel givent he opportunity, they aren't much smaller than DG, if they even are smaller. They should watch DG and learn how to play the role. Correct that Armstrong isn't or never will be a target man.  I would like Wickham as he is 6 foot 3 , well built. It would be great to have a big lad up there With ;Dack, Armstrong, Palmer, Samuel, Bennett and whoever playing off them 

On Wickham do you really want to run the risk of bringing him in with his injury record?

He has been out 18 months and even before that was always stop start with injury. 

We also have no chance of signing him permanently all those things together and personally I wouldn't be happy if if was him brought in

[Bigdoggsteel]

12 minutes ago, islander200 said:

On Wickham do you really want to run the risk of bringing him in with his injury record?

He has been out 18 months and even before that was always stop start with injury. 

We also have no chance of signing him permanently all those things together and personally I wouldn't be happy if if was him brought in

I think he could be a useful addition in the Championship. His injury record is a risk, but if he wasn't injured, we wouldn't be signing him. As for the fact he would definitely going back to Palace, well if we go up we may keep him  and whilst loaning with a view to buy is the ideal scenario, if he improved our team this season, that would be enough for me. We missed out on signing someone permanently. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

12 minutes ago, OnePhilT said:

You mean like last season?

Ya, exactly like last season. If we started better, we would have won the title. 

[islander200]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

I think he could be a useful addition in the Championship. His injury record is a risk, but if he wasn't injured, we wouldn't be signing him. As for the fact he would definitely going back to Palace, well if we go up we may keep him  and whilst loaning with a view to buy is the ideal scenario, if he improved our team this season, that would be enough for me. We missed out on signing someone permanently. 

Sharpe reckons nothing in it 

[Bigdoggsteel]

9 minutes ago, islander200 said:

Sharpe reckons nothing in it 

Sharpe reckons there is nothing in anything until the club confirms it! 

I found the link strange, but I still think we need a target man for our 3 off the striker to play off 

Edited August 13, 2018 by Bigdoggsteel

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

5 hours ago, rigger said:

I would try palmer against Carlisle as the targetman forward to give DG a rest. His ball control is good perhaps he could be an answer to the lack of a forward problem at least if he tries a trick and it doesn't work possession is lost in their defensive area.   

He's not got the physicality to play there. He's not a  " back to goal " player either. 

[RevidgeBlue]

42 minutes ago, OnePhilT said:

You mean like last season?

We aren't going to be putting strings of wins together for fun like last season though so every single point is crucial in the battle to get to 50.

[Bigdoggsteel]

12 minutes ago, OnePhilT said:

There's absolutely no way to know that. Maybe losing the first two gave us a severe kick up the arse to get going.

There's nothing wrong with people pointing out our flaws of course - that's how you improve - but from what I've seen, we look OK. I still think saying "must win" at this stage of the season is absolutely ridiculous.

I never said must win, I said the sooner we get our first win the better. What if we get to 6 without a win, would you say its urgent we get a win then? Ultimately good performances are irrelevant without wins , good performances will turn to bad performances too if we go on a run without a win, as pressure starts creeping in. The first win will really kick our season off 

 

[RevidgeBlue]

9 minutes ago, OnePhilT said:

 I still think saying "must win" at this stage of the season is absolutely ridiculous.

Why? We fail to win Saturday and It's two or three points from three games which is a bit "meh". Does the next home game after that not then become a bit "must win"?

Fail to win either or those two then you can't really expect to win the next game because it's an away game etc and all of a sudden you're looking at 5 games without a win and struggling.

Every game becomes "must win" if you get a bit behind schedule.

[Al]

On ‎11‎/‎08‎/‎2018 at 19:40, roversfan99 said:

Think, subject to new signings, we need to start Armstrong and Rothwell over Smallwood and Palmer, and impose our game from the start. As Mowbray said post-match, we need to get a first win as soon as we can, Hull is a winnable game.

Palmer starts for me. Too many on here are averse to flair players. I love them.

Edited August 13, 2018 by Al

[rigger]

46 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

He's not got the physicality to play there. He's not a  " back to goal " player either. 

He seems to have good ball control, he seemed to have enough strength in both games I have seen him in. He just seems to lack the knowledge of when to release a ball. this can be learned, but if he is losing the ball in the more forward position it is less dangerous than where he has been losing the ball.  

[Stuart]

28 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Why? We fail to win Saturday and It's two or three points from three games which is a bit "meh". Does the next home game after that not then become a bit "must win"?

Fail to win either or those two then you can't really expect to win the next game because it's an away game etc and all of a sudden you're looking at 5 games without a win and struggling.

Every game becomes "must win" if you get a bit behind schedule.

There seems to be a school of thought that the only must win games are ones which keep you in the division.

It makes no sense.

We must have targets for the season’s, teams that we expect to win against vs teams we hope to compete with. I’m with you, if we don’t beat one of our target games then we ‘must win’ one of those that we didn’t expect to. Whether it’s the next game or the last one before we go down (or miss out on the play offs - to balance the argument).

[JHRover]

38 minutes ago, Stuart said:

There seems to be a school of thought that the only must win games are ones which keep you in the division.

It makes no sense.

We must have targets for the season’s, teams that we expect to win against vs teams we hope to compete with. I’m with you, if we don’t beat one of our target games then we ‘must win’ one of those that we didn’t expect to. Whether it’s the next game or the last one before we go down (or miss out on the play offs - to balance the argument).

Yeah, we've not managed to beat either Ipswich or Millwall and now we have Hull and Reading. 4 clubs there that we really need to be beating or finishing above come May. Before we know it we'll be up against Brentford who folk will then say are a strong side and on it rolls. Need to beat the poorer sides and Hull are one of them. Mind you they'll be thinking exactly the same of us.

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, Al said:

Palmer starts for me. Too many on here are averse to flair players. I love them.

Personally not at all averse to flair players, had many a debate with chaddy about how Bennett for example being defensively capable is not enough for him to get a place in our attacking 4, in my opinion.

I just feel that Armstrong has to come in with his pace, Graham and Dack are obvious, so that leaves one of Rothwell and Palmer, 2 similar flair players and Palmers end product was very poor, and I felt Rothwell did more than him and deserves a start over him, of course dependant on tomorrow night.

[Al]

32 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Personally not at all averse to flair players, had many a debate with chaddy about how Bennett for example being defensively capable is not enough for him to get a place in our attacking 4, in my opinion.

I just feel that Armstrong has to come in with his pace, Graham and Dack are obvious, so that leaves one of Rothwell and Palmer, 2 similar flair players and Palmers end product was very poor, and I felt Rothwell did more than him and deserves a start over him, of course dependant on tomorrow night.

It wouldn't do for us all to have the same opinion. Personally I feel that Palmer has a greater range of skills and it's up to the manager to harness those skills, however over the course of a match there is room for both. Rothwell had an excellent ten minutes and then disappeared. They both need managing.

[roversfan99]

3 minutes ago, Al said:

It wouldn't do for us all to have the same opinion. Personally I feel that Palmer has a greater range of skills and it's up to the manager to harness those skills, however over the course of a match there is room for both. Rothwell had an excellent ten minutes and then disappeared. They both need managing.

Agreed on that. I suspect that Palmer will have the greater impact on the season overall, and I look forward to seeing him more, I just dont remember anything he tried coming off on Saturday whereas for me, Rothwell looked more dangerous.

I feel like Palmer maybe wasnt helped by mainly being played on the right on Saturday, hes a number 10 so if he is to be played wide, playing him on the left will allow him to come inside and link with Dack, especially with Bell on the overlap. Being on the right makes him more likely to go on the outside being right footed which is not his game.

[RevidgeBlue]

2 hours ago, Al said:

Palmer starts for me. Too many on here are averse to flair players. I love them.

Agreed Al. Certainly wouldn't start him up front as he isn't a striker but I don't understand the criticism of him as like the Millwall fan who posted on here Saturday night I thought he was our best player before he was hooked off.

If you're trying to make things happen all the time and attempting difficult passes you will give the ball away a bit whereas if you're never trying to make anything happen and never pass the ball more than five yards you won't give the ball away much and your pass completion rate will look splendid in isolation but those sort of players are a waste of space for me. (Lowe, Evans etc). 

[TruRover]

Palmer will be a big player for us this season I'm sure. Always looking to make something happen, he will lose the ball but he will also be threatening with it. Much prefer that to constant sideways passes. People need to remember he isn't match fit yet and hasn't had a run of games where he regualry starts for a long time. A lot more to come from him I feel. 

[rigger]

4 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Palmer isn't even a striker though, how do you work out he is a target man? I would prefer Nutall or Samuel givent he opportunity, they aren't much smaller than DG, if they even are smaller. They should watch DG and learn how to play the role. Correct that Armstrong isn't or never will be a target man.  I would like Wickham as he is 6 foot 3 , well built. It would be great to have a big lad up there With ;Dack, Armstrong, Palmer, Samuel, Bennett and whoever playing off them 

because he has excellent ball control, can turn on to either foot, has some pace, I think that centerhalves would be more worried by these attributes, than just a physical presence up front

[Oldgregg86]

11 minutes ago, rigger said:

because he has excellent ball control, can turn on to either foot, has some pace, I think that centerhalves would be more worried by these attributes, than just a physical presence up front

I agree with the attributes but can he make the runs and have the correct positional sense of a striker. Something you learn over time playing that position

[rigger]

22 minutes ago, Oldgregg86 said:

I agree with the attributes but can he make the runs and have the correct positional sense of a striker. Something you learn over time playing that position

I do not know if he can make that position his own, but I suggested it was worth a try. No-one will know if it isn't tried.

[philipl]

I did say MUST WIN and I am sticking to it.

I explained why in the loan thread. 

Win this one and we sit pretty in the table while we battle the rest of the Championship fight it out for the game and season changing crumbs dropping for the Premier League before the loans window closes.  

[JacknOry]

Somebody mentioned Sam Alladyce who has quite a bit of experiencing managing teams tipped for relegation and him saying something along the lines of the first ten games being massively important. In his experience, those who got good hauls of points on the board early usually managed to stay up, those that didn't usually got relegated.

Its easy to say its a long season but we certainly do not want to be on the back foot early doors. We need a win to keep the lads confidence up and to get ourselves firmly involved in the top half of the table. This is especially when you consider that on our paper our fixture list in the early part of the season looked good for us with plenty of winnable games. Two of those have already become draws when arguably we could and probably should have won both of them.

The good news is that it really should have been 6 points - which in itself means that we have competed and shown that so far, there isnt all that much to be afraid of. The bad news is that for whatever reason, we have not managed to get the full points on the board.

Great time to play Hull, so lets take it to them.