Thursday deadline.

[ChrisPriceBaldSpot]

10 minutes ago, 4000Holes said:

Just reading the Scottish papers.  Apparently McGeough is out of contract so available for next to nothing.  McGinn is also available but still has 12 months left so Hibs looking for around £5,000,000.  Also rumoured Rangers are interested in him?

There are quite a few good free agents out there this summer. I am sure TM has identified some of them as possible targets especially with our financial constraints. 

[joey_big_nose]

13 hours ago, Mercer said:

Championship will be a big challenge for Dack.  The lad has skill and a football brain but lacks the pace to become a 'big' player.

His stock is high at the moment and I would expect his agent to try and capitalise on this.

A fee of £7 to £8million is fantasy stuff.  Rovers will do well to keep him but I think he will be offski for something like £3million with a few add ons.  We are in the age of player / agent power. 

I very much dispute that Dack lacks pace. He's as quick as anyone else we have in the squad. He's scored a few breakaway goals.

He's also physically strong, skilful, creative, scores buckets of goals and is direct - a rare and potent combination. I think he will have a very strong season in the Championship. I also think - to echo what someone else said - that we should be able to hold onto him as he is not yet proven at Championship level so no one will bid the £6-7M it will take to make Venkys interested. If Venkys sold him for a low offer as you suggest it would 1) hugely dent our chances of staying up 2) totally destroy any faint hopes of promotion we may have 3) almost certainly lead to Mowbray leaving 4) entail selling an asset way below potential value (hopefully Venkys are aware of what Cairney is valued at currently...)

Don't think selling him for £3m is going to happen for all those reasons.

Think we will definitely keep him till at least January. Then if we get a big offer it may be a struggle to keep him. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

14 hours ago, Mercer said:

Championship will be a big challenge for Dack.  The lad has skill and a football brain but lacks the pace to become a 'big' player.

His stock is high at the moment and I would expect his agent to try and capitalise on this.

A fee of £7 to £8million is fantasy stuff.  Rovers will do well to keep him but I think he will be offski for something like £3million with a few add ons.  We are in the age of player / agent power. 

You are well off the mark there 

[JacknOry]

Just now, joey_big_nose said:

I very much dispute that Dack lacks pace. He's as quick as anyone else we have in the squad. He's scored a few breakaway goals.

He's also physically strong, skilful, creative, scores buckets of goals and is direct - a rare and potent combination. I think he will have a very strong season in the Championship. I also think - to echo what someone else said - that we should be able to hold onto him as he is not yet proven at Championship level so no one will bid the £6-7M it will take to make Venkys interested. If Venkys sold him for a low offer as you suggest it would 1) hugely dent our chances of staying up 2) totally destroy any faint hopes of promotion we may have 3) almost certainly lead to Mowbray leaving 4) entail selling an asset way below potential value (hopefully Venkys are aware of what Cairney is valued at currently...)

Don't think selling him for £3m is going to happen for all those reasons.

Think we will definitely keep him till at least January. Then if we get a big offer it may be a struggle to keep him. 

He is also one of the best finishers I have seen in quite some time at the club. The boy rarely misses the target.

I think he will surprise quite a few that are doubting him to perform in the Championship. If he cannot perform being our best player, what does that say about the rest of the squad?

He wont be sold - Not this season anyway. The season after once he has proved himself in that league is the one I worry about more but at the same time, the money for him will be huge.  

[Neil Weaver]

Gone right over my head, but what's the 'V factor' that Stuart referred to (ref Dack)?  I'd have thought the Olivia factor might come into play..... maybe that's the same thing?

[BlackburnEnd75]

Just now, joey_big_nose said:

I very much dispute that Dack lacks pace. He's as quick as anyone else we have in the squad. He's scored a few breakaway goals.

 

Utter rubbish. I'll list the quicker players, Armstrong, Antonsson, Nyambe, Bell, Samuel, Chapman.

Dack's not slow but he's not quick either.

[gumboots]

19 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Mowbray has already mention About giving Dack a new contract

I thought I'd seen that somewhere too

[Commondore]

I can see clubs being wary of signing Dack. He's unproven at Championship level, has a season-derailing off the pitch scandal on his resumé, and plays a fairly specialized role that only exists in certain formations. If he keeps performing for us in the Championship next year it will of course be a different story. 

[Commondore]

6 hours ago, benhben said:

Strange quote in the LET from Mowbray regarding Payne. Unless I've read it wrong, Mowbray is only interested in signing him if he accepts he will be a substitute most weeks. If he has ambitions to start and become a focal point hes not interested.....Managers usually want the latter.

 

“My selections have shown that I haven’t seen him as a 90 minute footballer, the challenge for Jack is whether he can accept that or whether he’s a lad who wants to play, be in the team, be the main man and let him make things happen.

“If that’s what he’s thinking and demanding then this is probably not the place for him but we can have that discussion and I’ll discuss that with him and see where we go.”

If I were him I'd get the hell out of a club where the manager tells me I'm best used as an impact sub. He's only 23 years old, no time to waste away his career on a bench. 

[JBiz]

1 hour ago, Neil Weaver said:

Gone right over my head, but what's the 'V factor' that Stuart referred to (ref Dack)?  I'd have thought the Olivia factor might come into play..... maybe that's the same thing?

He means Venky’s might pull the rug from under Tony’s feet and sell him for an offer they deem worthy!

In the 8 seasons they’ve been here, I can only really think of Cairney as a similar example, however when we sold him, and the two centrebacks the year after, we had a much bigger % of wage to turnover, something like 200%.

[chaddyrovers]

15 hours ago, Mercer said:

Championship will be a big challenge for Dack.  The lad has skill and a football brain but lacks the pace to become a 'big' player.

His stock is high at the moment and I would expect his agent to try and capitalise on this.

A fee of £7 to £8million is fantasy stuff.  Rovers will do well to keep him but I think he will be offski for something like £3million with a few add ons.  We are in the age of player / agent power. 

are you having a laugh 3 million pounds for Dack. you taking the piss there. no pace? 

at least 10 million for Dack. But a simply not for sale would do. 

 

[Fraserkirky]

Nice McGeouch video here for anyone interested. Tidy player

Unfortunatly you have see Stokes face again.

Edited May 11, 2018 by Fraserkirky

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Fraserkirky said:

Nice McGeouch video here for anyone interested. Tidy player

Unfortunatly you have see Stokes face again.

No truth to it according to Rich Sharpe

[AAK]

2 hours ago, JacknOry said:

He is also one of the best finishers I have seen in quite some time at the club. The boy rarely misses the target.

I think he will surprise quite a few that are doubting him to perform in the Championship. If he cannot perform being our best player, what does that say about the rest of the squad?

He wont be sold - Not this season anyway. The season after once he has proved himself in that league is the one I worry about more but at the same time, the money for him will be huge.  

62% (18 goals) of shots on target, joint 6th best in the league with Danny Graham (14 goals), 4 of those above him strikers Grigg 72% (19 goals), Marriott 63% (27 goals), Stefan Payne 68% (11goals) and Craig Davies 66% (11 goals) the other a midfielder Michael Jacobs 67% (12 goals). However the best shots on target ratio in the whole league is Charlie Mulgrew would you believe it, with a whopping 78% (14 goals)

Edited May 11, 2018 by AAK

[iSeeRed]

 

 what about this fella?

[Admiral Nelsen]

Just now, iSeeRed said:

 

 what about this fella?

Think the old three club rule might be coming into play here! QPR don't have a manager for a kick off.

Fairly unimpressed if true, although we do need bodies there I suppose. Maybe would've taken him 3 or 4 years ago, but would've thought he's well past his best now. 

[JHRover]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

are you having a laugh 3 million pounds for Dack. you taking the piss there. no pace? 

at least 10 million for Dack. But a simply not for sale would do. 

 

They sold Cairney to Fulham for approximately £3 million and Cairney is/was a better player than Dack, proven at Championship level.

You don't seem to have learned from experience.

I agree that in today's mad world £3 million for someone of Dack's importance would be below expectations, and I agree that if we had any sense a contract extension and simple not for sale to a Championship rival stance would do the trick, but again, we've seen from experience that might not happen.

Once you get a reputation as a selling club keen to do business with anyone (including smaller clubs in the same league like Fulham and Brighton in recent seasons) then more and more rivals will take the mick with cheeky offers and stunts to try and nab our best players. Firm rejections put an end to that but here they keep on cropping up because we don't tell them to clear off.

[LA Rover]

As Bigdogsteelpointed pointed out, Rich Sharpe has said there's nothing in in the McGeough story. I know the word is around that recruitment had already started for next season, but can't see how we'd be buying or signing players before Mowbray's trip to India to determine his budget. 

[JBiz]

Just now, JHRover said:

They sold Cairney to Fulham for approximately £3 million and Cairney is/was a better player than Dack, proven at Championship level.

You don't seem to have learned from experience.

I agree that in today's mad world £3 million for someone of Dack's importance would be below expectations, and I agree that if we had any sense a contract extension and simple not for sale to a Championship rival stance would do the trick, but again, we've seen from experience that might not happen.

Once you get a reputation as a selling club keen to do business with anyone (including smaller clubs in the same league like Fulham and Brighton in recent seasons) then more and more rivals will take the mick with cheeky offers and stunts to try and nab our best players. Firm rejections put an end to that but here they keep on cropping up because we don't tell them to clear off.

You don’t seemed to have learned from the experience and consequences of letting Snakean and the boys sign off 50m+ plus in wages and fees to put us near the foot of the championship. Now is a different scenario, we aren’t (as far as I’m aware) shipping nearly as much coin for nothing in return.

There was always going to be sales when we posted nearly 50m in pre tax losses in one season. Comparing now to then; 13/14 and the years that followed it, is a little bit unfair- considering the reduction in wages, and potential levelling of turnover.

Every club is a selling club, dependent on scenario. Two of the championship clubs of the three whom signed Cairney, Hanley and Duffy- achieved promotion and the other is in the playoffs. What did the x million’s invested in the likes of Best, Murphy, Etuhu, a load of Portugeezers, and the diamond in the rough; Rhodes et al get us? A noose of debt that could’ve levelled the modern infrastructure at the club.

Whilst I’m not confident of any major success, I am quite alleviated of worry because of how they (the owners) responded last season. Could’ve easily cut it to the bone. I think they’d resist any offers for Dack, or anyone for that matter (remember Lenihan to sheff United?) unless it’s crazy money or TM wants shot.

Might happen, maybe. But as likely as “the -2 million a month years”? No way.

 

[ChrisPriceBaldSpot]

I would take Mcgoldrick on a free. Still got a bit of pace about him and is an upgrade on Samuel and Nuttall. Knows his way around the Championship too. 

[Pedro]

3 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

You are well off the mark there 

I was going to post exactly the same. He isn't quick but his strength and trickery more than make up for it.  You can easily double that £3m.

[Pedro]

10 minutes ago, JHRover said:

They sold Cairney to Fulham for approximately £3 million and Cairney is/was a better player than Dack, proven at Championship level.

You don't seem to have learned from experience.

I agree that in today's mad world £3 million for someone of Dack's importance would be below expectations, and I agree that if we had any sense a contract extension and simple not for sale to a Championship rival stance would do the trick, but again, we've seen from experience that might not happen.

Once you get a reputation as a selling club keen to do business with anyone (including smaller clubs in the same league like Fulham and Brighton in recent seasons) then more and more rivals will take the mick with cheeky offers and stunts to try and nab our best players. Firm rejections put an end to that but here they keep on cropping up because we don't tell them to clear off.

Who was the last half-decent player we sold? Duffy (who's poor performances and attitude engineered his own move).

[chaddyrovers]

24 minutes ago, JHRover said:

They sold Cairney to Fulham for approximately £3 million and Cairney is/was a better player than Dack, proven at Championship level.

You don't seem to have learned from experience.

I agree that in today's mad world £3 million for someone of Dack's importance would be below expectations, and I agree that if we had any sense a contract extension and simple not for sale to a Championship rival stance would do the trick, but again, we've seen from experience that might not happen.

Once you get a reputation as a selling club keen to do business with anyone (including smaller clubs in the same league like Fulham and Brighton in recent seasons) then more and more rivals will take the mick with cheeky offers and stunts to try and nab our best players. Firm rejections put an end to that but here they keep on cropping up because we don't tell them to clear off.

That was 3 years ago not now. Now is different situation and different manager and now have CEO in place. 

Also every club is a selling club at championship level. 

17 minutes ago, LA Rover said:

As Bigdogsteelpointed pointed out, Rich Sharpe has said there's nothing in in the McGeough story. I know the word is around that recruitment had already started for next season, but can't see how we'd be buying or signing players before Mowbray's trip to India to determine his budget. 

Possible line up and talks be held and verbally agree 

I would be looking at Bridcutt at Forest. Available. Karanka want him gone

[roversfan99]

Bridcutt would just be an inferior version of Smallwood on higher wages whose struggled at Championship level for a bit now.

[JHRover]

37 minutes ago, Biz said:

You don’t seemed to have learned from the experience and consequences of letting Snakean and the boys sign off 50m+ plus in wages and fees to put us near the foot of the championship. Now is a different scenario, we aren’t (as far as I’m aware) shipping nearly as much coin for nothing in return.

There was always going to be sales when we posted nearly 50m in pre tax losses in one season. Comparing now to then; 13/14 and the years that followed it, is a little bit unfair- considering the reduction in wages, and potential levelling of turnover.

Every club is a selling club, dependent on scenario. Two of the championship clubs of the three whom signed Cairney, Hanley and Duffy- achieved promotion and the other is in the playoffs. What did the x million’s invested in the likes of Best, Murphy, Etuhu, a load of Portugeezers, and the diamond in the rough; Rhodes et al get us? A noose of debt that could’ve levelled the modern infrastructure at the club.

Whilst I’m not confident of any major success, I am quite alleviated of worry because of how they (the owners) responded last season. Could’ve easily cut it to the bone. I think they’d resist any offers for Dack, or anyone for that matter (remember Lenihan to sheff United?) unless it’s crazy money or TM wants shot.

Might happen, maybe. But as likely as “the -2 million a month years”? No way.

 

Perhaps worth bearing in mind that both Fulham and Brighton (clubs we actively sold our best players to) posted losses on a similar level to ours and owe similar amounts to their owners as we do/did. Difference with them was they were/are serious about getting promotion. So sales weren't inevitable, they were optional as a means of clawing back lost cash. The fact those players went on to be successful and worth a lot more than we sold them for goes to show what a shortsighted and flawed policy it was. Had we kept them, built around them and seriously gone for promotion the chances are we'd have gone up instead of those clubs or if not we'd have had Cairney etc. worth 5 or 6 times what we actually sold him for. 

So we got the triple whammy - selling best players for less than they could have fetched - weakening ourselves massively - strengthening rivals massively. 

My view is that if you ignore or try to justify their behaviour between 2015 and 2017 and instead focus all your attentions on what they did from 2017-present then you're leaving yourself open to major disappointment. 

Every club is a selling club insofar as a bigger club in a higher league wants one of your players then you're going to struggle to keep him. But when you're actively following a policy of selling all your best players to whoever wants them from the same division then that isn't acceptable. To my knowledge no club in the Championship has embarked on such a firesale of quality as we did to league rivals. Plenty sell the odd player or two mainly to higher divisions but that isn't what we did.