Thursday deadline.

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

31 minutes ago, rigger said:

only if we start with a losing run.

If we start what we have now, that will be the case!

[roversfan99]

Just now, Swanson said:

This guy on facebook (yes I know) seems to know a lot :

"Spoke to Armstrong at weekend. We do have a bid in, it's £2.5m with a season long loan. He only wants to come to us. His agent is holding out for a higher offer. We have an offer of £650k for Chapman, with lots of add on's.
Gallagher is on £24k a week. Slightly less than the new contract we have offered Dack. Gallagher is a loan with a fee of £2.5m at the end of the season. Both us and Sheff Utd have bid."

Probably bs but..this guy's name is Phillip Gregory, anybody know him?

Quite clearly a rehash of existing rumours with a couple of made up figures added for that itk flavour.

[Stuart]

11 hours ago, MarkBRFC said:

I certainly sway that way at the moment because we have been here before. 

Would love to be proved wrong in three weeks but we'll see.

Don’t worry Mark. If if we don’t sign anyone else now it’ll still all be absolutely perfect.

Get behind the lads. If we get relegated it won’t be the quality of the players it’ll be negative fans.

[RevidgeBlue]

Just now, Swanson said:

This guy on facebook (yes I know) seems to know a lot :

"Spoke to Armstrong at weekend. We do have a bid in, it's £2.5m with a season long loan. He only wants to come to us. His agent is holding out for a higher offer. We have an offer of £650k for Chapman, with lots of add on's.
Gallagher is on £24k a week. Slightly less than the new contract we have offered Dack. Gallagher is a loan with a fee of £2.5m at the end of the season. Both us and Sheff Utd have bid."

Probably bs but..this guy's name is Phillip Gregory, anybody know him?

Not sure why a randomer on Facebook would have any of the above intimate info but just to humour him for a moment and assume he is correct I wouldn't pay £2.5m for the privilege of loaning Armstrong for the season, for that sort of money or very slightly more I'd sooner bring him in permanently.

Neither would I touch Gallagher with a barge pole for 24k p.w. then being obliged to buy him for £2.5m.

Chapman I would take a punt on and at those figures that sounds about right.

[Swanson]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

Quite clearly a rehash of existing rumours with a couple of made up figures added for that itk flavour.

Probably ?

[JHRover]

18 minutes ago, Swanson said:

This guy on facebook (yes I know) seems to know a lot :

"Spoke to Armstrong at weekend. We do have a bid in, it's £2.5m with a season long loan. He only wants to come to us. His agent is holding out for a higher offer. We have an offer of £650k for Chapman, with lots of add on's.
Gallagher is on £24k a week. Slightly less than the new contract we have offered Dack. Gallagher is a loan with a fee of £2.5m at the end of the season. Both us and Sheff Utd have bid."

Probably bs but..this guy's name is Phillip Gregory, anybody know him?

I call bs. Don't believe for one minute that we've offered to pay out £5 million in fees, nor why any of the parties would agree to a season long loan with a permanent after that.

I can just about believe the Chapman one and that Gallagher is on £24k a week out Southampton. I can see Gallagher happening provided we are paying at least half of his wage on loan. 

We've supposedly offered Dack more than £24k a week? No way.

[JBiz]

1 hour ago, JHRover said:

No i didn't know that. Not sure what relevance that has to do with anything though. I know next to nothing about Rothwell so whether or not he is any good will only be shown over time. I've seen Payne play for us and also know that he played very well for Oxford and also featured in Huddersfield's promotion season so I think he could have been a decent signing for us this summer. Perhaps not top of the list but given the lack of activity thus far one that was worth exploring. It seems Mowbray wasn't interested because he couldn't promise him game time.

If we subsequently sign someone better then fair enough but at present he's another viable option that has passed us by when a deal was there to be done if we had wanted it.

You're well rehearsed on my opinions on loaning players but I don't judge a player's quality on the basis of whether it is a loan or permanent deal. A permanent is usually preferable particularly for a club with a small pool of playing assets. I've explained why countless times. It seems you're enjoying sparring with me these days, its clear we aren't on the same page on a lot of issues at the club.

 

The relevance is Rothwell appeared to be our scouts/managers first choice between the two. Settling with Payne because it was blocked.

I enjoy “sparring” with people who are savvy enough to reply with edge but respect. You are one of the few who can. I must say though, we are poles apart at the minute - but that doesn’t mean I don’t respect your opinion.

I do think the criticism of the loan system is mental though. Yes, we’ve had good/bad examples but it’s a key area for all clubs outside the top few, even the big clubs use temp deals.

[JHRover]

Just now, Biz said:

 

I do think the criticism of the loan system is mental though. Yes, we’ve had good/bad examples but it’s a key area for all clubs outside the top few, even the big clubs use temp deals.

I think there's a big difference between using the loan market effectively/to our advantage and then being dependent on loans purely because it avoids the need to sign permanent players and the commitment that comes with that.

I don't think I've ever said I'm completely against all loans or that some good business can't be done in the loan market. But before then we need our own players who can be with the club for a number of years and develop. I think Mowbray himself has said similar numerous times about preferring to target permanent transfers yet bizarrely seems to have done a u-turn on that and is now talking about loans with increasing frequency. 

But yes, I'm very concerned and disappointed if the focus of our activity from here onwards is the loan market. I expected 5-6 permanent signings this summer to re-stock the squad, especially given the departures of last season's loans and the 3-4 players who clearly aren't in the manager's plans. To get 2 and now be being primed for loans is a disappointment, hopefully we'll get at least another 2-3 permanents who ideally would be a good age like Armstrong who could grow with the club. 

[RovingRover]

3 hours ago, Angry_Pirate said:

So contract wise, going off comments here, we have the following players entering the last year of their deals:

Mulgrew, Whittingham, Caddis, Evans, Conway and Graham. Were Galdwin, Hart and Leutwiler only 2 years when signed? That's 9, anyone else?

Out of contract at end of this season (2019):
Jayson Leutwiler (Option for 1-year extension), Paul Caddis, Paul Downing (Option for 1-year extension), Sam Hart, Charlie Mulgrew, Craig Conway (Option for 1-year extension), Corry Evans, Ben Gladwin, Willem Tomlinson, Peter Whittingham and Danny Graham (Option for 1-year extension).

Out of contract at end of next season (2020):
Amari'i Bell, Ryan Nyambe (Option for 1-year extension), Scott Wharton, Elliott Bennett, Bradley Dack (Option for 1-year extension), Richie Smallwood and Dominic Samuel.

[Mike E]

3 weeks to go and I'm personally getting jittery.

However, taking rumours at face value, I'd be thrilled with:

Perm: Maddison, Bauer

Loan: Chapman, Armstrong.

Gallagher I'd also like but think it may be lazy journalism.

[JBiz]

Just now, JHRover said:

I think there's a big difference between using the loan market effectively/to our advantage and then being dependent on loans purely because it avoids the need to sign permanent players and the commitment that comes with that.

I don't think I've ever said I'm completely against all loans or that some good business can't be done in the loan market. But before then we need our own players who can be with the club for a number of years and develop. I think Mowbray himself has said similar numerous times about preferring to target permanent transfers yet bizarrely seems to have done a u-turn on that and is now talking about loans with increasing frequency. 

But yes, I'm very concerned and disappointed if the focus of our activity from here onwards is the loan market. I expected 5-6 permanent signings this summer to re-stock the squad, especially given the departures of last season's loans and the 3-4 players who clearly aren't in the manager's plans. To get 2 and now be being primed for loans is a disappointment, hopefully we'll get at least another 2-3 permanents who ideally would be a good age like Armstrong who could grow with the club. 

Reason why is because your examples of our experience seemed to stop at Samuelson, Byrne and that nobody fullback from West Ham..

It’s wasted to mention some of our best recent signings started on loan - and if Chapman and Armstrong sign this month, that will be more examples of the benefit of using a loan system to add to a squad.

2015’s JHR wouldn’t have jumped to the conclusion that we’ve finished our business 20 days before the season starts. The same guy wouldn’tve suggested the “keeping powder dry till January” was a rouse/smokescreen for the owners to lie to fans. 

I look forward to you returning to the middle ground at some point. 

[Tormund]

Wish we had billions.

[1864roverite]

1 hour ago, RevidgeBlue said:

....... and STILlL no new contract for Dack despite us being told it's 'close" for weeks.

He would appear to be holding off on signing a new deal for whatever reason whether it's to squeeze a bit more money out of Rovers or to see what interest there is from elsewhere.

He is still under contract so unless some club pays the going rate is it really an issue? I don’t think so

[1864roverite]

2.5m for AA? He has 12 months left on his current NUFC deal! 24k a week for BD? Get a grip, he hasn’t kicked a ball in the Championship and is only an established L1 player at this very moment. The average wage for a L1 player must be 400k at best pa. 

why fans beat them up over such drivel is beyond me just ctfo 

[roversfan99]

Just now, 1864roverite said:

2.5m for AA? He has 12 months left on his current NUFC deal! 24k a week for BD? Get a grip, he hasn’t kicked a ball in the Championship and is only an established L1 player at this very moment. The average wage for a L1 player must be 400k at best pa. 

why fans beat them up over such drivel is beyond me just ctfo 

Everyone has said that its a load of rubbish! Who is beating themselves up over it?

[Tormund]

Armstrong is probably 750k-1mill max with one year left on his contract surely? 

[rigger]

1 hour ago, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

If we start what we have now, that will be the case!

More than likely, but only an opinion not a fact.

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

Just now, rigger said:

More than likely, but only an opinion not a fact.

Aye.  IMO

[RevidgeBlue]

17 minutes ago, Biz said:

The relevance is Rothwell appeared to be our scouts/managers first choice between the two. Settling with Payne because it was blocked.

I enjoy “sparring” with people who are savvy enough to reply with edge but respect. You are one of the few who can. I must say though, we are poles apart at the minute - but that doesn’t mean I don’t respect your opinion.

I do think the criticism of the loan system is mental though. Yes, we’ve had good/bad examples but it’s a key area for all clubs outside the top few, even the big clubs use temp deals.

Ok you win you've got round me with flattery. Lol.

I'm not averse to the loan system per se if it is used sparingly to add a bit of pizzazz and the finishing touches to your transfer business. Ideally you'd like someone truly exceptional that you could never afford to buy outright in a month of Sunday's like Woodburn from Liverpool or Foden from City. As OH says though you're heading for trouble if you're trying to make it the staple of your business purely to avoid paying transfer fees.

One of my main objections to relying on the loan system though is the element of uncertainty. At least if you're in to buy a player permanently things are under your control to the extent that if you want to you can keep upping your offer until you get your man.

If you're relying on Premier League loans after the transfer window has shut then the bigger Clubs are under no obligation whatsoever to let their players go out on loan to the lower leagues. You've no real idea whether players will be made available to loan or even if they are if they're in the positions you want or if they fancy joining you. And if it all comes to nothing it's too late to do anything about it then.

[JBiz]

Just now, RevidgeBlue said:

Ok you win you've got round me with flattery. Lol.

I'm not averse to the loan system per se if it is used sparingly to add a bit of pizzazz and the finishing touches to your transfer business. Ideally you'd like someone truly exceptional that you could never afford to buy outright in a month of Sunday's like Woodburn from Liverpool or Foden from City. As OH says though you're heading for trouble if you're trying to make it the staple of your business purely to avoid paying transfer fees.

One of my main objections to relying on the loan system though is the element of uncertainty. At least if you're in to buy a player permanently things are under your control to the extent that if you want to you can keep upping your offer until you get your man.

If you're relying on Premier League loans after the transfer window has shut then the bigger Clubs are under no obligation whatsoever to let their players go out on loan to the lower leagues. You've no real idea whether players will be made available to loan or even if they are if they're in the positions you want or if they fancy joining you. And if it all comes to nothing it's too late to do anything about it then.

Thought I quoted JHR...

One aspect that has gone unmentioned, we are an attractive proposition for premier league talent to cut their teeth at present- going on staffing and facilities.

The game is so dominated by money, the young talent is sucked towards the top - hence why so many young English players are struggling for consistent games.

Heck, id love to see us go out and buy 5/6 proven players and make a real effort to go up first time but I think it’s fair to say the knock on effect of failure after investment, is harsh at this level. The income just doesn’t support it. Call it an excuse, lack of aspirations, whatever - I’d sooner the club develops a system for keeping costs in line with expenses but still keeps punching above its weight. A system that John Williams perfected.

If we can add another 1 or 2 in the ilk of Davenport, (potential prospect and reasonable price) hopefully in attacking positions, then supplement the squad with a couple of well scouted loan additions - I will see the summer as a success.

At this point, we are a couple light imo but I’d sooner they took there time to get things right in  this scenario - it’s testemant to the current management that we aren’t looking for 12 or so new faces again, like last season. Many of those brought in last season will be of use in a higher league. 

[neophox]

Remember Dack has

never played in Championship

but I hope he succed!

[neophox]

Rovers have a couple

of deals ... think there will be one new arrival before Liverpool game and some other news?

[RevidgeBlue]

19 minutes ago, 1864roverite said:

He is still under contract so unless some club pays the going rate is it really an issue? I don’t think so

Of course it is. Dack and his agent will be aware he's put himself in the shop window with his performances last season and I bet Dack is currently on a lot less than the likes of Mulgrew, Graham and Evans or most decent Championship players.

 

[RovingRover]

32 minutes ago, 1864roverite said:

2.5m for AA? He has 12 months left on his current NUFC deal! 24k a week for BD? Get a grip, he hasn’t kicked a ball in the Championship and is only an established L1 player at this very moment. The average wage for a L1 player must be 400k at best pa. 

why fans beat them up over such drivel is beyond me just ctfo 

Armstrong's contract at Newcastle United expires 30.06.2020. So actually he has 23 months remaining on his current deal.

[yeti-dog]

Just now, neophox said:

Rovers have a couple

of deals ... think there will be one new arrival before Liverpool game and some other news?

Permanent or loan neophox?