Thursday deadline.

[JBiz]

6 minutes ago, JHRover said:

 

Unless you're a cynic like me. I ask myself what other reason the club might have for loaning Wharton out for a season when we're short on numbers as it is. e.g. we need to shed some people off the wage bill before incomings are allowed. I raised that as a suspicion last week following the absences of Gladwin, Caddis and Hart. Maybe with Wharton out on loan and a couple of those out the door Mowbray might have some free wages to play with.

Mulgrew, Lenihan, Downing, Williams, Nyambe.

5 players who you could argue are all further ahead in a back 3 or 4. 

In a 4, you can only play 2, he isn’t in front of Lenihan/Mulgrew and Downing would be arguably a safer shout, so I’d thought most cynics could see the benefit of him playing regular games against actual “blokes” in competitive games, as opposed to u23’s or sitting on our bench.

Even with 3 at the back, TM and most managers prefer pacier/more technical defenders on sides, hence why I could see him behind Williams for the left, and Lenihan for the right. Again - the obvious answer is he won’t play enough here.

Finally - I doubt a young Centreback with little to no senior experience above L2 would command such a wage that we’d need to move it out to necessitate further cheap/sensible investments. That’s not the opposite of cynical, it’s just common sense.

[RevidgeBlue]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

“It’s not frustrating. I understand why the deals we’re working on haven’t fallen in to place yet but I’m sure they will.” #Rovers https://t.co/MnKvDoWKXT

Sounds like Tony is starting to grasp at straws a bit now and any chance of any permanent signings is receding fast.

Would appear we're living in hope of relying on the good grace of Premiership Clubs to loan us a player or two they don't want after they've seen them in action pre Sea son.

What a way to operate.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, Biz said:

Mulgrew, Lenihan, Downing, Williams, Nyambe.

5 players who you could argue are all further ahead in a back 3 or 4. 

In a 4, you can only play 2, he isn’t in front of Lenihan/Mulgrew and Downing would be arguably a safer shout, so I’d thought most cynics could see the benefit of him playing regular games against actual “blokes” in competitive games, as opposed to u23’s or sitting on our bench.

Even with 3 at the back, TM and most managers prefer pacier/more technical defenders on sides, hence why I could see him behind Williams for the left, and Lenihan for the right. Again - the obvious answer is he won’t play enough here.

Finally - I doubt a young Centreback with little to no senior experience above L2 would command such a wage that we’d need to move it out to necessitate further cheap/sensible investments. That’s not the opposite of cynical, it’s just common sense.

From what bit I've seen of Wharton he strikes me as a footballing centre half. I'd have preferred for him not to go to an " ale house  football  " type team. 

[JHRover]

Just now, Biz said:

Mulgrew, Lenihan, Downing, Williams, Nyambe.

5 players who you could argue are all further ahead in a back 3 or 4. 

In a 4, you can only play 2, he isn’t in front of Lenihan/Mulgrew and Downing would be arguably a safer shout, so I’d thought most cynics could see the benefit of him playing regular games against actual “blokes” in competitive games, as opposed to u23’s or sitting on our bench.

Even with 3 at the back, TM and most managers prefer pacier/more technical defenders on sides, hence why I could see him behind Williams for the left, and Lenihan for the right. Again - the obvious answer is he won’t play enough here.

Finally - I doubt a young Centreback with little to no senior experience above L2 would command such a wage that we’d need to move it out to necessitate further cheap/sensible investments. That’s not the opposite of cynical, it’s just common sense.

As I've already said I can see the logic in letting Wharton out and I think it will do him good to have a full season hopefully free of injury playing in League Two.

All of what you say may be true but then why would Mowbray be pursuing Bauer and seeking to pay several hundred thousand pounds for him?

It may appear unlikely but we've heard rumours in the past about wanting people out the door before new ones can come in. It might 'only' be a few thousand a week of savings but combine with getting Caddis and Gladwin off the wage bill and that's likely a loan wage covered without the need to increase the overall wage budget which Venkys might not be prepared to do any more.

 

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

How much money did we have to spend on Davenport and Rothwell Chaddy ? Maybe I haven't been paying enough attention but I don't recall a fee being mentioned.

Not in public domain but both cost fees

Just now, RevidgeBlue said:

Sounds like Tony is starting to grasp at straws a bit now and any chance of any permanent signings is receding fast.

Would appear we're living in hope of relying on the good grace of Premiership Clubs to loan us a player or two they don't want after they've seen them in action pre Sea son.

What a way to operate.

Totally disagree there. 

[RevidgeBlue]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

How much money did we have to spend on Davenport and Rothwell Chaddy ? Maybe I haven't been paying enough attention but I don't recall a fee being mentioned.

It seems to be reasonably well accepted that the fee for Davenport was in the region of 500k and that we would probably have to find around 250-300k compensation for Rothwell who was out of contract.

800k for 2 players. Nothing like the 3m figure being quoted for Armstrong. Chaddy seems to think this is evidence of money to spend. I would say it's exactly the opposite and that  we have to shop at pound stretcher.

[bluebruce]

2 hours ago, Biz said:

Maybe it’s simple? Lincoln guarantee him the games others wouldn’t? Maybe he likes Lincoln?

I don’t think there is a huge amount of difference between the leagues of im honest, but there’s definitely a difference between a season with 40/50 games, and a season with 3/4 starts and a handful of sub appearances.

Maybe that is the rationale, but that isn't the way TM explained it.

I think there is a pretty big difference between those leagues. Especially in terms of someone being ready for our first team, we really need to be testing them in the next rung down. I'm not saying we should have kept him here to make 3/4 starts and some sub appearances, just that he needed League One football.

[roversfan99]

10 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

“It’s not frustrating. I understand why the deals we’re working on haven’t fallen in to place yet but I’m sure they will.” #Rovers https://t.co/MnKvDoWKXT

Rovers have looked in to the possibility of an Ewood return for Adam Armstrong who scored nine times during a five month loan spell at the end of last season.

 

Newcastle United are reportedly willing to sell the 21-year-old, who also worked under Mowbray at Coventry City on loan in 2015/16, for a fee in the region of £3million rather than sanction another loan deal.

Armstrong has two years remaining on his Magpies deal, so Rovers would need to come to an compromise over the wage demands of the England youth international should they pursue that deal.

Wouldnt read much into that chaddy. No quotes or anything from Mowbray, just speculation on Armstrongs perceived availability.

3 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

Why can’t there be more balanced opinions? All of the communication from the manager suggested he was happy with the budget, knew exactly which players he wanted (based on ability and mentality) and that he wanted to sign them as early as possible.

Other than being unable to get them done early I see no change in that rhetoric. So why are there so many assuming ‘we’re skint’ or ‘we’ve no plan b’ etc? 

TM appears to refuse to settle for players unless they have the right character etc. So maybe, just maybe he doesn’t want Adulkan or Mcmanaman or Wildschut...

I’m getting worried too but surely we need to get to the end of the window before the hysteria kicks in? 

I feel like your painting our fan base in an unfair light here. Fans are going to compare the signings made by similar clubs with similar budgets in the positions we need to strengthen ourselves. Thats par for the course. If we sign better players then everyone is happy, if we dont then people will rightfully suggest why we havent signwd better when better players are clearly out there. Thats the nature of the game.

[roversfan99]

Hope we dont spend much of our budget on a centre back when its not anywhere near as much of a pressing concern as our depleted attack.

If it is still 2 permanent, 2 loans, then id like 2 of 3 attacking players (1 striker and 1 winger) to be permanent personally. Thats where we need to spend money. No need to spend big on Bauer etc.

[Paul Mani]

1 hour ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Clearly TM did have a list of targets (I was told he'd submitted those to the Board at the end of last season) and he subsequently conveyed the impression upon his return from India he was happy with the funds available.

It would appear some weeks later as I've been saying all along that with the benefit of hindsight that funding has been insufficient to land any of the players he wanted and the rhetoric from TM has in fact changed substantially from confidently predicting bringing in six signings at the start of the window etc to being "excited" about the sort of players who would be coming in (funnily enough near the ST early bird deadline), to being "hopeful" of bringing in players with experience to admitting that we may not be able to bring anyone in at all in preference to Nuttall.

You don't really think by TM would leave landing his targets until the last week or so of the window by choice and play Russian roulette by risking someone else nipping in first do you?

We would appear to be in a right old mess. The only saving grace as far as I can see it is that it is still hopefully not too late for the Manager Board and owners to completely re-evaluate and put some decent funding in place to bring in players of the calibre we need.

I think the article released 15-20 mins ago on the Lancashire Telegraph confirms the ongoing rhetoric which hasn’t really changed...

The only benefit to TM leaving the signings of specific players to the last minute is that you get them for their real price and not the inflated sums that are being banded about. So yes, I can see why you’d hang on.

I completely disagree that we’re ‘in a right old mess’. The way I see it, if we finish up paying £1.5m instead of £3m for Armstrong, £750k-£1m instead of £2m for Bauer, plus maybe Maddison and a couple of loans then we will have had an excellent window and it will have been worth the wait. 

The fact of the matter here is that no one knows how much or little money we have. No one even knows who the targets are or why they haven’t signed yet. Let’s judge the window when it’s done.

Until then, I’ll be refreshing every social media outlet every hour too in the hope that I’m not disappointed!! Haha

[roversfan99]

Just now, Paul Mani said:

I think the article released 15-20 mins ago on the Lancashire Telegraph confirms the ongoing rhetoric which hasn’t really changed...

The only benefit to TM leaving the signings of specific players to the last minute is that you get them for their real price and not the inflated sums that are being banded about. So yes, I can see why you’d hang on.

I completely disagree that we’re ‘in a right old mess’. The way I see it, if we finish up paying £1.5m instead of £3m for Armstrong, £750k-£1m instead of £2m for Bauer, plus maybe Maddison and a couple of loans then we will have had an excellent window and it will have been worth the wait. 

The fact of the matter here is that no one knows how much or little money we have. No one even knows who the targets are or why they haven’t signed yet. Let’s judge the window when it’s done.

Until then, I’ll be refreshing every social media outlet every hour too in the hope that I’m not disappointed!! Haha

Agreed on no one knowing the budget but surely prices will only go up now once clubs sense a bit of desperation kicking in?

I fear your hopes for Maddison, Armstrong and Bauer will leave you dissapointed in a couple of weeks too.

[JHRover]

7 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

It seems to be reasonably well accepted that the fee for Davenport was in the region of 500k and that we would probably have to find around 250-300k compensation for Rothwell who was out of contract.

800k for 2 players. Nothing like the 3m figure being quoted for Armstrong. Chaddy seems to think this is evidence of money to spend. I would say it's exactly the opposite and that  we have to shop at pound stretcher.

Bell - few hundred grand, Samuel - few hundred grand, Dack - £750,000, Williams - few hundred grand, Rothwell - few hundred grand, Davenport - few hundred grand, Cairney - few hundred grand, Evans - few hundred grand, Duffy - few hundred grand, Gestede & Conway - few hundred grand. First ones signed in 2013, now its 2018 and the sums are similar.

This is Venky spending. The only surprise was that they went as high as they did for Dack. Has always been the case since the parachute cash was trousered by others and they had to start dipping into their own pockets for funds rather than use up the Premier League money.

The irony is that Venkys should know better than anyone the rewards of speculative spending and sensible investment on players yet still appear reluctant to do so beyond a limited level. When they have stumped up cash the rewards have been vast for them yet they still don't seem keen to do it.

I think anyone expecting £2 million+ signings are being very, very optimistic. I had hoped that success and promotion last season might energise Venkys into going up a level on spending and bankrolling a bit more than previously, but it seems not. Dangerous game because it could see us back in League One. We're now at a stage where the likes of Ipswich are spending a few million on new players - these are the sort we should be competing with at the very least yet it seems not.

 

Edited July 23, 2018 by JHRover

[Paul Mani]

12 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Sounds like Tony is starting to grasp at straws a bit now and any chance of any permanent signings is receding fast.

Would appear we're living in hope of relying on the good grace of Premiership Clubs to loan us a player or two they don't want after they've seen them in action pre Sea son.

What a way to operate.

Oh come on mate. Look at the whole interview in context. He’s not grasping at straws. He’s confident, almost bullish!!

[RevidgeBlue]

Just now, Paul Mani said:

I think the article released 15-20 mins ago on the Lancashire Telegraph confirms the ongoing rhetoric which hasn’t really changed...

The only benefit to TM leaving the signings of specific players to the last minute is that you get them for their real price and not the inflated sums that are being banded about. So yes, I can see why you’d hang on.

I completely disagree that we’re ‘in a right old mess’. The way I see it, if we finish up paying £1.5m instead of £3m for Armstrong, £750k-£1m instead of £2m for Bauer, plus maybe Maddison and a couple of loans then we will have had an excellent window and it will have been worth the wait. 

The fact of the matter here is that no one knows how much or little money we have. No one even knows who the targets are or why they haven’t signed yet. Let’s judge the window when it’s done.

Until then, I’ll be refreshing every social media outlet every hour too in the hope that I’m not disappointed!! Haha

I'm not sure that prices would go down towards the end of the window I'd have thought if anything that selling Clubs would take advantage of other Clubs increasing desperation towards the end of the window and hike prices up.

I'd also have thought that from a buying Clubs point of view the best bargains would be had by getting your business done early.

But still you're right, nothing we can do about it.

 

[47er]

Just now, Paul Mani said:

I think the article released 15-20 mins ago on the Lancashire Telegraph confirms the ongoing rhetoric which hasn’t really changed...

The only benefit to TM leaving the signings of specific players to the last minute is that you get them for their real price and not the inflated sums that are being banded about. So yes, I can see why you’d hang on.

I completely disagree that we’re ‘in a right old mess’. The way I see it, if we finish up paying £1.5m instead of £3m for Armstrong, £750k-£1m instead of £2m for Bauer, plus maybe Maddison and a couple of loans then we will have had an excellent window and it will have been worth the wait. 

The fact of the matter here is that no one knows how much or little money we have. No one even knows who the targets are or why they haven’t signed yet. Let’s judge the window when it’s done.

Until then, I’ll be refreshing every social media outlet every hour too in the hope that I’m not disappointed!! Haha

The key word in your post is "if", often referred to as the saddest word in the English language.

[Paul Mani]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

Agreed on no one knowing the budget but surely prices will only go up now once clubs sense a bit of desperation kicking in?

I fear your hopes for Maddison, Armstrong and Bauer will leave you dissapointed in a couple of weeks too.

Prices do tend to become more realistic...

Maybe I will be disappointed. But I’m willing to wait until the end of the window to judge it.

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

Just now, Paul Mani said:

Prices do tend to become more realistic...

Maybe I will be disappointed. But I’m willing to wait until the end of the window to judge it.

What's your criteria for a successful window?

[RovingRover]

Ipswich Town have apparently agreed a £750,000 fee with Bristol Rovers for Ellis Harrison according to the East Anglia press.

Edit: Accepted offer confirmed by club.

Edited July 23, 2018 by RovingRover
Another pic.

[Ruaney]

Just now, Paul Mani said:

Prices do tend to become more realistic...

Maybe I will be disappointed. But I’m willing to wait until the end of the window to judge it.

Woah, we'll have less of these sensible comments in here please.

[bluebruce]

2 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I'm not sure that prices would go down towards the end of the window I'd have thought if anything that selling Clubs would take advantage of other Clubs increasing desperation towards the end of the window and hike prices up.

I'd also have thought that from a buying Clubs point of view the best bargains would be had by getting your business done early.

It varies. If clubs know you have cash, are desperate, and they are under no pressure to sell or have multiple bidders, then prices can inflate.

If however, they've been asking too much and they know it, and the player wants to leave or they in fact are desperate for the cash themselves (sometimes to buy a player they've been holding back on too), prices can drop dramatically.

The end of the window is a time where prices tend to reshuffle both ways. Clubs don't want to risk an unhappy asset sitting around sulking, nor missing out on their own targets because they didn't free up enough funds. The dynamic fluctuates.

If the window is one big poker game, the end of it is where everyone has to play their real hand.

Edited July 23, 2018 by bluebruce

[Paul Mani]

Just now, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

What's your criteria for a successful window?

That we finish this window with a stronger squad than the one that finished last season.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 minute ago, Paul Mani said:

Prices do tend to become more realistic...

Maybe I will be disappointed. But I’m willing to wait until the end of the window to judge it.

Me too but at the moment it's not looking good. Am I allowed to say that ?

[TruRover]

I honestly would only pay 1.5 million max for Armstrong, 3 million could be better spent elsewhere, for instance we could sign chapman and Maddison for about that.

[RevidgeBlue]

Just now, Paul Mani said:

That we finish this window with a stronger squad than the one that finished last season.

Is it a good window though if you've missed out on all your preferred targets and ended up having to bring bodies in almost for the sake of it?

Guess we'll never know. The Club will claim We've brought in our number one targets all along no matter who turns up.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

28 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Not in public domain but both cost fees

Totally disagree there. 

So the fees could have been anything - or nothing ?