Thursday deadline.

[rigger]

25 minutes ago, Oldgregg86 said:

That's a bottom six 11 IMO. But it does match that ambition that the owners keep banging on about. That was the same players that got us relegated last time albeit Smallwood helped Rotherham on their way. Graham's a year older. Only Samuel and dack  weren't apart of a relegation that season and Samuel couldbt cut it at league 1 level.  Bar dack with no champions experience ( although he is easily good enough) and Palmer who signed yesterday it doesn't bode well if your factor in squad depth It's easy to over estimate our players after last season

Personally I think we will finish above the following teams, in no particular order. Birmingham, Brentford, Bristol city, Millwall, Rotherham, Wigan, Preston, Bolton.

[FGS5635]

As is the case with smaller squads, we have 3 or 4 key players and our season will be defined by how fit they stay all season.

If Dack, Graham and Leinihan stay fit and dont miss much time this season then we will be ok

If any of them miss significant time, especially Dack, then we will be in a relegation fight

[JacknOry]

3 minutes ago, CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber said:

I'm becoming increasingly convinced that Armstrong will be our buy that 'eclipses' the Dack fee - around the £1.25m mark.

Charlton aren't budging on Bauer and I suspect Big T will have thought he could get him for £500k give or take and in truth we have cover in that area. 

Hopefully we then get Chapman on loan as I can't see us buying him because of his injury record combined with our tiny budget. 

This is based on nothing more than a feeling after my morning coffee gave me a chance to have a proper think about the situation on the shitter. 

Even if it was more than that, hopefully after getting money in for Mitrovic, they will be happy to structure the deal over a couple of years. Wages might be an issue though but if I were Armstrong I would be thinking about getting out of there and playing first team football on a permanent basis as he is very unlikely going to be breaking into their first team anytime soon and is getting older.

Edited July 31, 2018 by JacknOry

[JBiz]

17 minutes ago, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

 

Ultimately, there is still a lack of transparency at the club.  If we can't afford forwards, just say so.  No need to spin it or cover up what is becoming increasingly obvious.  

No club is going to punctuate it’s summer season ticket promotion with “we can’t afford to do much bar sign our better players on bigger contracts and add a couple of loans”

It’s frustrating but not complicated to understand why the word “competetive” was used in interviews with TM/SW. I do think someone at the club thought we might do a bit better in the striking department a couple of months ago.

Still a bit of time yet mind.

[JHRover]

38 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

Sorry? You mentioned Todd Kane and I stated that Todd Kane (ie a player who has been with a club for 8yrs as a pro but has never made a first team appearance for them and been loaned out the whole time) - Is the exception to any rule. Surely?

Unfortunately in Chelsea's case there are lots and lots of other Todd Kanes. Players who will have been lured to Chelsea as kids, moulded in Chelsea's academy and then spend their careers being farmed out all over the place. Kane will be 25 by the time he leaves Hull at the end of his loan and will have never kicked a ball in anger for Chelsea whilst moving round countless loan clubs.

As there are big drawbacks to ourselves relying on loan players, there are drawbacks to these sort of players who waste their careers with a nomadic existence when if they had put down roots at a decent Championship club or lower Premier League club there is every chance that over a few years they would develop into first team players.

The drawback to Rovers on relying upon loans is we have a nomadic existence ourselves where we cannot properly plan or develop a squad or identity because each and every summer we are waiting until the 11th hour until we discover who, if anyone, we are able to borrow, rather than seizing control of our destiny by owning our players.

Tammy Abraham - now 20 - last 2 years on loan at Swansea and Bristol City, 2 appearances for Chelsea

Ola Aina - now 21 - 3 appearances in 3 years at Chelsea, last season on loan at Hull

Lewis Baker - now 23 - never kicked a ball for Chelsea, last 3 years out on loan at Sheff Weds, MK Dons, Vitesse, Middlesbrough and now Leeds

Jeremie Boga - 1 appearance in 3 years at Chelsea - 3 years on loan at Rennes, Granada and Birmingham

Fankaty Dabo - 0 appearances - loans at Swindon and Vitesse

Michael Hector - 0 appearances - loans at Reading, Frankfurt and Hull

Tomas Kalas - now 25 - 2 appearances - loans at Vitesse, Cologne, Middlesbrough x 2 and Fulham x 2

Todd Kane - 24 - 0 appearances - loans at PNE, Rovers, Bristol City, Forest, Nijmegen, Groningen, Oxford and Hull

Kasey Palmer - 0 appearances - loans at Huddersfield x 2, Derby and Rovers

Plenty of others on the list.

[47er]

2 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

Indeed meadows, Chelsea churn out and hoard dozens upon dozens of players for up to a decade for no discernible reason that I can see - as many of them will never make the grade at that level.

Who was the last Chelsea academy player to become a regular - John Terry?

Chelsea's list must be ENORMOUS! They come heralded like Di Santo then gradually disappear.

[47er]

1 hour ago, TruRover said:

As the season approaches I actually think our squad is looking promising. This would be my starting 11 going into the Ipswich game.

Raya

Nyambe - Lenihan - Mulgrew - Williams

Smallwood - Evans

Samuel - Dack - Palmer

Graham

The defence know each other inside out and as a unit look pretty solid. Evans and Smallwood give us hard work and energy in the middle with Samuel and Palmer offering pace out wide with the latter alongside Dack giving us the needed flair. In Graham we have someone who can hold the ball up, link the play and finish chances which come his way.Players such a Travis, Davenport and Conway can all provide energy from the bench, while Rothwell has that bit about him and can carry the ball forward as an attacking midfieldier, Bell and Bennett give us pace and versatility to switch systems and Downing is solid enough back up to the centrebacks if needed.

There is one real issue tho with our squad. We lack attacking quality from the bench, in the form of a striker and a wide man. Graham offers a lot but his game dwindles out normally around the 60 minute mark and that's when we need a quality powerful striker to come on to give us abit more energy at the top of the pitch, preferably someone who is abit more dynamic than Graham and who could become our first choice striker over the season. Secondly we need a natural wideman with pace, because although I think Samuel has something about him he's not a natural wideman who can whip a ball in, in short a game changer from the bench who can push the starting 11 is needed, Chapman would of been ideal. I feel a winger and a striker are essential and could potentially be the difference with flirting with relegation and pushing towards a play off push.

 

 

 

 

There's another issue you haven't mentioned------lack of height up front.

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

11 minutes ago, Biz said:

No club is going to punctuate it’s summer season ticket promotion with “we can’t afford to do much bar sign our better players on bigger contracts and add a couple of loans”

It’s frustrating but not complicated to understand why the word “competetive” was used in interviews with TM/SW. I do think someone at the club thought we might do a bit better in the striking department a couple of months ago.

Still a bit of time yet mind.

I agree with that last part.  I think they expected to do better than they have transfer wise (so far). 

[JHRover]

21 minutes ago, rigger said:

Personally I think we will finish above the following teams, in no particular order. Birmingham, Brentford, Bristol city, Millwall, Rotherham, Wigan, Preston, Bolton.

I'm not sure to be honest. People are tipping Birmingham to struggle because of their embargo and lack of new signings but they've an ok squad and haven't sold anyone. Brentford always seem to do well and surpass expectations. Wigan we finished below last season and we're currently weaker than then. We will have to finish above Rotherham and Bolton, and should be capable of finishing above Millwall.

[CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber]

13 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

Even if it was more than that, hopefully after getting money in for Mitrovic, they will be happy to structure the deal over a couple of years. Wages might be an issue though but if I were Armstrong I would be thinking about getting out of there and playing first team football on a permanent basis as he is very unlikely going to be breaking into their first team anytime soon and is getting older.

You'd hope the lad would understand that his best football has always come under Mowbray, he's been here and been successful and would be playing in a group of lads that he appears to get on with really well. Unfortunately money talks though so we may have to hope that no one else comes in for him and we are his only option on deadline day. 

[JacknOry]

Chelsea really do destroy the careers of a lot of 'initially' highly-rated players. I guess a lot of these kids go in thinking they are going to be the next best thing, get given a nice contract for their age and over the years the realization sets in that they probably wont make it at Chelsea but are more than happy to just get farmed around while taking in a nice wedge.

Thats why I like Davenport, he is one that decided not to settle for that and wants to go out and try to further his career. 

[scotchrover]

6 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Unfortunately in Chelsea's case there are lots and lots of other Todd Kanes. Players who will have been lured to Chelsea as kids, moulded in Chelsea's academy and then spend their careers being farmed out all over the place. Kane will be 25 by the time he leaves Hull at the end of his loan and will have never kicked a ball in anger for Chelsea whilst moving round countless loan clubs.

As there are big drawbacks to ourselves relying on loan players, there are drawbacks to these sort of players who waste their careers with a nomadic existence when if they had put down roots at a decent Championship club or lower Premier League club there is every chance that over a few years they would develop into first team players.

The drawback to Rovers on relying upon loans is we have a nomadic existence ourselves where we cannot properly plan or develop a squad or identity because each and every summer we are waiting until the 11th hour until we discover who, if anyone, we are able to borrow, rather than seizing control of our destiny by owning our players.

Tammy Abraham - now 20 - last 2 years on loan at Swansea and Bristol City, 2 appearances for Chelsea

Ola Aina - now 21 - 3 appearances in 3 years at Chelsea, last season on loan at Hull

Lewis Baker - now 23 - never kicked a ball for Chelsea, last 3 years out on loan at Sheff Weds, MK Dons, Vitesse, Middlesbrough and now Leeds

Jeremie Boga - 1 appearance in 3 years at Chelsea - 3 years on loan at Rennes, Granada and Birmingham

Fankaty Dabo - 0 appearances - loans at Swindon and Vitesse

Michael Hector - 0 appearances - loans at Reading, Frankfurt and Hull

Tomas Kalas - now 25 - 2 appearances - loans at Vitesse, Cologne, Middlesbrough x 2 and Fulham x 2

Todd Kane - 24 - 0 appearances - loans at PNE, Rovers, Bristol City, Forest, Nijmegen, Groningen, Oxford and Hull

Kasey Palmer - 0 appearances - loans at Huddersfield x 2, Derby and Rovers

Plenty of others on the list.

He can’t be that angry, otherwise he would have asked for a transfer ages ago. I think the word is more delusional- how can a player, who clearly isn’t even good enough, continue to live in hope, for that long? Surely you’d move on? 

[JacknOry]

Just now, CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber said:

You'd hope the lad would understand that his best football has always come under Mowbray, he's been here and been successful and would be playing in a group of lads that he appears to get on with really well. Unfortunately money talks though so we may have to hope that no one else comes in for him and we are his only option on deadline day. 

Depends on what he values more, the chance to bring his career on which will bring the potential of bigger contracts down the line or rot in the Newcastle reserves on his currently better wage for a couple more seasons. What would he be on do you reckon? 20k a week? Its obviously enough to be more than most of our higher earning players and TM has said on numerous occasions that he does not want to bring in players that would be on more than them and potentially destabilize current morale.

[47er]

Let's suppose we finish 14th/15th this coming season. Not unlikely.

Will that attract bigger crowds than last year? I think not.

Will the like of Dack and Lenihan be satisfied with that? Doubt it.

Therein lies the danger.

[DE.]

1 hour ago, TruRover said:

As the season approaches I actually think our squad is looking promising. This would be my starting 11 going into the Ipswich game.

Raya

Nyambe - Lenihan - Mulgrew - Williams

Smallwood - Evans

Samuel - Dack - Palmer

Graham

It might just be me but I look at that team and see a lot of weaknesses. I'm not too concerned by Raya in goal, but god help us if he gets injured. Nyambe did OK last season in League 1 but still a lot to prove at this level. I've never particularly rated Williams and think he'll be a weak link much like he was in our last Championship campaign. Happy enough with Lenihan and Mulgrew as a DC pairing but an injury to Mulgrew would leave us in trouble.

Smallwood had a half decent and half poor season last year, and obviously was a part of Rotherham's relegated side the season before, so it remains to be seen whether he has what it takes. Evans only shows up for a handful of games a season so I'm not happy with him as a starter.

Don't rate Samuel at all and will be disappointed if he's starting. Dack and Palmer obviously very good players. I think Dack will be able to make the step up. Graham meanwhile will only be able to play 70 mins max and we have no replacement of any quality for him.

Honestly if that's the team we have for most of this season I'd consider staying in the division a decent achievement. 

[CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber]

3 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

Depends on what he values more, the chance to bring his career on which will bring the potential of bigger contracts down the line or rot in the Newcastle reserves on his currently better wage for a couple more seasons. What would he be on do you reckon? 20k a week? Its obviously enough to be more than most of our higher earning players and TM has said on numerous occasions that he does not want to bring in players that would be on more than them and potentially destabilize current morale.

Don't disagree. Given the chance you'd hope he'd want to come here over not playing at Newcastle. I'd say £15k+ is a realistic guess of his wages and it's the most obvious reason as to why we haven't signed him yet - combined with Newcastle's asking price. Very frustrating as he was a big part of the reason we kicked on after Xmas last year and I think he has enough to be a decent Championship player for us. 

[unsall]

Nuttall supposed to be in advanced talks with Bristol Rovers for season long loan

[ChrisyG]

11 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

Chelsea really do destroy the careers of a lot of 'initially' highly-rated players. I guess a lot of these kids go in thinking they are going to be the next best thing, get given a nice contract for their age and over the years the realization sets in that they probably wont make it at Chelsea but are more than happy to just get farmed around while taking in a nice wedge.

Thats why I like Davenport, he is one that decided not to settle for that and wants to go out and try to further his career. 

A lot of those kids would do better at places like our academy, where they have quality coaching, facilities and the real opportunity of progressing to the first team. They're less likely to get loaned out all over the place for years on end as well. The big move to a top flight club will come if they're good enough.

[Pedro]

2 minutes ago, 47er said:

Let's suppose we finish 14th/15th this coming season. Not unlikely.

Will that attract bigger crowds than last year? I think not.

Will the like of Dack and Lenihan be satisfied with that? Doubt it.

Therein lies the danger.

A bit of an off-shoot of your post but I only saw the Everton highlights yesterday. I was massively impressed with Dack, especially how he used his strength in and around the box. If we keep him fit, he is going to do very well for us.  Like you imply though, we need to be competing above 14/15 to keep players like that at the club.

[JacknOry]

Just now, unsall said:

Nuttall supposed to be in advanced talks with Bristol Rovers for season long loan

Oooh, does this mean we have a striker coming in then? TMs own words were that he wanted to shift Nuttall out on loan but only if he can bring another striker in.

[CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber]

Just now, unsall said:

Nuttall supposed to be in advanced talks with Bristol Rovers for season long loan

If true we surely, SURELY have to be about to bring in another striker....... I mean we wouldn't let a young lad go out on loan and not have someone already lined up to repla..... ah. 

[Swanson]

2 minutes ago, unsall said:

Nuttall supposed to be in advanced talks with Bristol Rovers for season long loan

Harrison the other way then or has he signed for Ipswich?

[islander200]

3 minutes ago, unsall said:

Nuttall supposed to be in advanced talks with Bristol Rovers for season long loan

If true must mean a striker close Mowbray said he wouldn't be let out til we had someone else brought in

[briansol]

2 minutes ago, Swanson said:

Harrison the other way then or has he signed for Ipswich?

Harrison has signed for Ipswich. Ipswich are also rumoured to be interested in Kayden Jackson of Accrington Stanley who played well against us on Saturday.

[yellowsubmarine]

4 minutes ago, unsall said:

Nuttall supposed to be in advanced talks with Bristol Rovers for season long loan

Good news. The only way he can improve his game is to keep playing. If Mowbray is only thinking of him as an impact sub player, which he clearly isn't, then its better he goes on a loan to get more game time.