Transfer Window - Success or Failure

[philipl]

8 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

I'm pleased with the signings he made. Armstrong at 1.75 million pounds with adds ons rising to 3 mil is a bargain and steal. Palmer is good loan signing and Davenport should be very good signing. 

Would I like another striker, winger and centre back? of course but we could do that during the loan window. 

I totally agree Neal, the lack of faith in Mowbray is very sadly and very pathetic to see. And this love in for Ipswich and Hurst I just don't get at all. Only Edwards I would have taken. 

Here is a list of Championship transfers

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/championship/transfers/wettbewerb/GB2

People really ought to read that list of transfers and get a grip of themselves.

[imy9]

10 minutes ago, philipl said:

People really ought to read that list of transfers and get a grip of themselves.

Thanks for the link, very insightful.

There are very few clubs who are in the red for transfers (we are one). Forest have spent a fortune and must be certs for a top 6 finish.

My worry is if DG or CM are injured then we literally have no one to replace them. Currently our season relies on luck and that is an awful position to be in.

It will be fascinating to see what the loan window does for the championship, as I sense the prices will be far more realistic. 3 more weeks to find out (!)

[G Somerset Rover]

Neal - don’t be too happy with our ‘bids’. There’s a small part of me that doubts their integrity. Two windows in a row that TM hasn’t spent close to our ‘budget’...something doesn’t smell right to me. Let’s hope I eat my own words and we have a cracking loan window. 

[islander200]

Obviously disappointed yesterday.

We weren't the only club to miss out on deals though and leave things until the last minute.

Take boro for example, missed out on Besic,Bolaise and Freeman.Although I'm reading this morning they are still hopeful of getting the first 2 on loan.

If we really do have the money to spend 5 million on one single deal then the fault can only lay at the recruitment team and Mowbray's door, bad planning if we have had this money to spend all summer, setting out sights to high whilst clubs like Ipswich and Bolton added Edwards and Wildschut 2 players who would have undoubtedly improved our first 11 and wouldn't have cost much

[patrickvalery]

I think it's a difficult situation to judge. I won't try to dress it up. It's extremely underwhelming that we didn't strengthen yesterday. It also felt a bit cobbled together. But the truth is none of us really know the truth. I suspect it's just one of those situations where unless you have operated in and had first hand experience of a transfer window / deadline day, it's difficult to appreciate the way it works. I suspect so many late deals happen because it's a case of seeing who blinks first. For that reason there is always a risk you might get left empty handed. 

 

The other thing to consider is we clearly didn't blink first. Ok we made a couple of late bids and that does have the faint whiff of desperation about it. But I'd say neither were outrageous sums of money when you look at the names in question. If nothing else I am pleased we had a figure in mind and stuck to it. It's about building a reputation for being willing to stick to our guns and play hardball. Let's face it, there's a good chance we will have to face up to losing a few better players in the coming years. If the bidding clubs know we are a club who stick to their guns then it gives us a better chance of getting the value we insist on.

 

As for the suggestion we could have picked up players like Madison for peanuts. Yes we probably could have done. But this comes down the the managers preference. If he believed Freeman was the better option then he has earned the right to make that call.

 

I'm not going to sit here and take any comfort in the loan window. Sadly the club (even pre venkys to be fair) have failed to bring in the necessary quality and quantity required before. When I heard Mowbray saying he wanted another 5 I immediately expected only 3. So we'll see what happens. But I firmly believe we have enough to stay up as it stands. I firmly believe we had enough to stay up when we did go down. But we have ourselves too much to do. What is clear to me is although i think we have the players to get the job done this year, it wouldn't take much misfortune for that picture to change. So I would hope the club rectify this in the next few weeks. 

 

It would be nice to hear from the club after yesterday though. Think they need to acknowledge the discontent and at least make a comment.

[Neal]

39 minutes ago, Gavlar Somerset Rover! said:

Neal - don’t be too happy with our ‘bids’. There’s a small part of me that doubts their integrity. Two windows in a row that TM hasn’t spent close to our ‘budget’...something doesn’t smell right to me. Let’s hope I eat my own words and we have a cracking loan window. 

Mate, I've been more cynical and skeptical of happenings at Rovers ever since they came in but are we really suggesting Tony Mowbray has such little inegritity and decency that he's putting in fake or token offers for players? I mean, nothing would surprise me after what we've endured but I just find that pretty hard to believe, especially given the random nature of the players targeted. I can totally understand after 8 years of absolute shit the cynicism from the fans but are we that damaged as a fan base that we can't trust anyone anymore? With Mowbray I think we can afford ourselves a little respite from it and finally trust in what appears to be the first genuinely decent spokes person at Rovers for some time... I hope I'm not wrong. 

Edited August 10, 2018 by Neal

[markhayhurst]

11 hours ago, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

That's the bit that worries me.  We had the chance to make an unexpected big purchase and failed miserably.  Now everyone is aware we aren't as skint as we cracked on,  so prices will rise accordingly.  

Maybe just maybe that was the point.  

Quality loans from premiership with view to buy. Maybe just maybe TM was playing a game and showing that loan players at Ewood might be a fruitful option “and we aren’t skint”. Ie we potentially have fund to pay wages or make perminant. IMO we are therefore a more attractive loan option don’t you think??

Edited August 10, 2018 by markhayhurst

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Totally underwhelmed. We've missed a massive chance to take the club forward on and off the field.  Everything smacks of us not really knowing what we were doing. In the great game of football management snakes and ladders Mowbray just landed on a medium sized snake. He needs to throw a double six in the window.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

The problem with loans is if they come here and do well clubs further up the food chain will step in, along with their parent club retaining them.

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

Lot of people happy to use the loan market. So it would be interesting to know:

How many signings would make this a successful window?

What quality of player do people expect now with our seemingly decent budget?  

Finally, would you still be happy if we signed 4-5 players but none with an agreed fee?

I

 

 

 

 

Edited August 10, 2018 by Wing Wizard Windy Miller

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

3 minutes ago, markhayhurst said:

Maybe just maybe that was the point.  

Quality loans from premiership with view to buy. Maybe just maybe TM was playing a game and showing that loan players at Ewood might be a fruitful option “and we aren’t skint”. Ie we potentially have fund to pay wages or make perminant. IMO we are therefore a more attractive loan option don’t you think??

No, I really don't think that.  Got to be honest and I like TM but he is not some sort of psychology/mind games evil genius.

[philipl]

1 hour ago, imy9 said:

Thanks for the link, very insightful.

There are very few clubs who are in the red for transfers (we are one). Forest have spent a fortune and must be certs for a top 6 finish.

My worry is if DG or CM are injured then we literally have no one to replace them. Currently our season relies on luck and that is an awful position to be in.

It will be fascinating to see what the loan window does for the championship, as I sense the prices will be far more realistic. 3 more weeks to find out (!)

 

Clubs with significantly more net transfer spending recorded than Rovers:

Stoke

Leeds

Forest

 

Clubs with marginally more net spending than Rovers:

Birmingham

Hull City

Reading

 

Clubs which made a profit on transfer dealings this summer:

Villa

Middlesbrough

Derby

Preston NE

Brentford

Sheffield Unied

Bristol City

Ipswich

Norwich

Sheffield Wednesday

QPR

 

Clubs with zero transfer expenditure:

Sheffield W

QPR

Rotherham

 

There is another point worth emphasising with the loan window still open. About 50 of last season's loans converted into permanent transfers with recipient club at the end of the loan period- these numbers don't include Armstrong who of course returned to Newcastle at the end of his loan then was bought on a transfer apparently unrelated to his loan.

So the idea that loans are meaningless in terms of permanent strengthening is shot to pieces by the evidence.

[Blue blood]

9 hours ago, JHRover said:

Well as you say Mulgrew is likely to depart as he's out of contract, as will Graham, Conway and Evans. Palmer off on loan expiry. Downing, Caddis, Gladwin, Hart, Nuttall, Whittingham all out of contract also. So another massive overhaul coming up when really we should have been adding key players in each position on long term deals.



Blimey I'd not even thought about the rest of the squad. Mind you I'm not too keen on some of those players - Gladwin, Caddis, Hart and Whittingham playing this seasey'on for us! League 1 seemed a bit of a stretch for them so not sure how they'll fare in the Championship. This highlights how much we needed to strengthen the squad.

9 hours ago, meadows said:

Davenport isn’t a loan

Thanks, helpful to know. Point still stands that we're recruiting from better teams so hopefully/theoretically they will be of a higher calibre of player.

[AllRoverAsia]

We have a rough guide that there is at least £5 million still unspent.

We can have up to 8 loans at anyone time, max 5 loans in any match day squad.

Plenty of scope there to at least strengthen at CF and CB as a matter of urgency, plus other areas if possible.

The window in reality is open until 31st August, let's see what 'appens.

Negotating loan to buy will be complex for sure with fees and interim wages for someone to pay, but working that out is what Recruitment, Venus, Waggott and Cheston are for.

Tony to crack on and focus on getting points on the board!

We have the funds so get on with it.

[JHRover]

58 minutes ago, philipl said:

 

Clubs with significantly more net transfer spending recorded than Rovers:

Stoke

Leeds

Forest

 

Clubs with marginally more net spending than Rovers:

Birmingham

Hull City

Reading

 

Clubs which made a profit on transfer dealings this summer:

Villa

Middlesbrough

Derby

Preston NE

Brentford

Sheffield Unied

Bristol City

Ipswich

Norwich

Sheffield Wednesday

QPR

 

Clubs with zero transfer expenditure:

Sheffield W

QPR

Rotherham

 

There is another point worth emphasising with the loan window still open. About 50 of last season's loans converted into permanent transfers with recipient club at the end of the loan period- these numbers don't include Armstrong who of course returned to Newcastle at the end of his loan then was bought on a transfer apparently unrelated to his loan.

So the idea that loans are meaningless in terms of permanent strengthening is shot to pieces by the evidence.

'Net' spending distorts things though. Whilst you're probably right that on a net basis we've done ok, the fact remains that we are one of the lowest spenders in the division on transfer fees yet again.

For all the talk about a good budget and support from the owners I have seen little evidence of that. Likewise no evidence of us being tested in terms of keeping our existing players. As I say the Armstrong one took me by surprise as I didn't expect them to go past £1 million on one player, but I imagine that one was Tony's biggie that he persuaded Madame to cough up for on his India trip, on the basis that they cannot lose on that deal. If Armstrong is even remotely successful in the next couple of seasons he will increase in value, and if Mowbray can get him to make the step up then he'll be worth 5 or 10x what we paid down the line.  

The likes of Villa, Middlesbrough and Derby may have made a profit on their trading, but at the same time they have also invested massively the other way on squads that were already top end Championship quality to begin with. We haven't got that luxury to begin with, we're going up a level into a tougher, better and more demanding division, so there was clearly a more urgent need for us to add.

Did you see that list of players that Derby have who don't even get into their squad. Absolutely frightening the depth and quality they have, whereas if we get one or two injuries I'm struggling to see what the options are. If Graham, Evans, Dack, Lenihan or Mulgrew pick up injuries in our next few games (lets be honest all have a record of doing so) then we're exposed right the way through the team.

[Norbert Rassragr]

Reasonable window, but with a pretty poor last few days. Still, better than the last few years when we'd be expecting a forward, and then Wes Brown turns up with some Portuguese jackass no one has heard of.

[Mozzer]

As much as it is a disappointment  not to get any more permanent signings , we might make up for it in loan signings.  Here's hoping anyway

We defiantly need a striker  . A winger or two.  And a central defender 

There is even some players still not snapped up by a team . Gabby agbonlahor for example . It's not all doom and gloom

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

7 minutes ago, Mozzer said:

As much as it is a disappointment  not to get any more permanent signings , we might make up for it in loan signings.  Here's hoping anyway

We defiantly need a striker  . A winger or two.  And a central defender 

There is even some players still not snapped up by a team . Gabby agbonlahor for example . It's not all doom and gloom

 

I think there's a reason why the likes of Agbonlahor haven't been snapped up.

[Ewood Ace]

Not sure why everyone is pinning their hopes on loans, its not like the loan window has only just opened it's been open the last few months and we've only brought Palmer in. So what make people think that we are going to go out and get the 3-4 players we need on loan in the next few weeks?

Edited August 10, 2018 by Ewood Ace

[AllRoverAsia]

8 minutes ago, Mozzer said:

As much as it is a disappointment  not to get any more permanent signings , we might make up for it in loan signings.  Here's hoping anyway

We defiantly need a striker  . A winger or two.  And a central defender 

There is even some players still not snapped up by a team . Gabby agbonlahor for example . It's not all doom and gloom

 

I'm old enough to remenber when Gabby had pure pace, at Ewood the week before our FA Cup semi v Chelsea a good example.

Now he's past it sadly.

[Mozzer]

2 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I think there's a reason why the likes of Agbonlahor haven't been snapped up.

It was just an example ?? 

Ewood ace - premier league teams wanted to see players in pre season before sending them out on loan , Palmer hadn't been involved with Chelsea.  

[JBiz]

Just now, Ewood Ace said:

Not sure why everyone is pinning their hopes on the loans, its not like the loan window has only just opened it's been open the last few months and we've only brought Palmer in. So what make people think that we are going to go out and get the 3-4 players we need on loan in the next few weeks?

Have you considered that most of the best premier league loans aren’t available till their 25 squads have been chosen? Particularly those over 21 who have to be registered to play.

There’s also teams like Watford, Wolves and Everton. They’ve had a late influx of signings. What’s the chances that someone will leave on loan? Quite high.

 

[islander200]

1 minute ago, Biz said:

Have you considered that most of the best premier league loans aren’t available till their 25 squads have been chosen? Particularly those over 21 who have to be registered to play.

There’s also teams like Watford, Wolves and Everton. They’ve had a late influx of signings. What’s the chances that someone will leave on loan? Quite high.

 

Yeah but will the players be any Good?If they are unlikely we will get them with a view to buy.

Can see Gallagher coming in (without the option to buy) and Chapman. Maybe that Hector from Chelsea as the cb.

[AllRoverAsia]

3 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

Not sure why everyone is pinning their hopes on loans, its not like the loan window has only just opened it's been open the last few months and we've only brought Palmer in. So what make people think that we are going to go out and get the 3-4 players we need on loan in the next few weeks?

Because we have transfer funds of approx 5 million known and because we need players and they said they would! 

I know !! ..... Let's see what happens......... we can do nothing else but see how it unfolds by 31st August.

[FGS5635]

A lot of transfrers are a snowball effect. Maybe we wanted Gallagher but southampton wouldnt let him go until they got someone in. The Ings deal was so late in the window we didnt get gallagher.

Now maybe we do and then off the back of that Nutall goes out on loan from us.

It sometimes takes just one move for 3 or 4 to then happen.

Prem clubs have so much cash they are in no rush, then can have to many players after the deadline while they re-asses for a week or two and then ship loans out to balance things out