Transfer Window - Success or Failure

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

21 minutes ago, islander200 said:

Yeah but will the players be any Good?If they are unlikely we will get them with a view to buy.

Can see Gallagher ccan podsiblynoming in (without the option to buy) and Chapman. Maybe that Hector from Chelsea as the cb.

I would say optimistically that is as good as we can possibly get now.

[LDRover]

We should all know by now that clubs don't do the deals, agents do. That's why I find the 2  late 4 and 5 million pound leftfield bids so hard to take seriously. If we'd had these players on our A list then surely they'd have been sounded out well in advance? I'm pretty sure both bids were an exercise in fan appeasement.

Unfortunately I sense a loan deal for the plodder Gallagher coming on - he most definitely is not the answer.

[FGS5635]

1 minute ago, LDRover said:

We should all know by now that clubs don't do the deals, agents do. That's why I find the 2  late 4 and 5 million pound leftfield bids so hard to take seriously. If we'd had these players on our A list then surely they'd have been sounded out well in advance? I'm pretty sure both bids were an exercise in fan appeasement.

Unfortunately I sense a loan deal for the plodder Gallagher coming on - he most definitely is not the answer.

If what we are led to believe is true, then the tactic nearly worked. We nearly bagged Bereton for under his market value. The bid was accepted, the player refused as the bid apparently caught him off guard.

Maybe that deal goes in again once he has time to sleep on it

[islander200]

As disappointed as I am about no permanent signings being brought in yesterday, Swansea had a shocking window.The only have 1 recognised centre half 

[LDRover]

5 minutes ago, FGS5635 said:

If what we are led to believe is true, then the tactic nearly worked. We nearly bagged Bereton for under his market value. The bid was accepted, the player refused as the bid apparently caught him off guard.

Maybe that deal goes in again once he has time to sleep on it

Or other more desirable clubs bag him with a more attractive deal now they know Forest will sell.

These days there are very few bids where the club accepts yet the player doesn't, before agent involvement it was more prevalent. I can't get away from if we'd really wanted him, we'd have stitched the personal stuff up , through his agent, beforehand.

[Stuart]

1 hour ago, AllRoverAsia said:

Because we have transfer funds of approx 5 million known and because we need players and they said they would! 

I know !! ..... Let's see what happens......... we can do nothing else but see how it unfolds by 31st August.

Where is the evidence that we have £5m burning a hole in our pocket?

And even if we do, this presumably includes wages? Two players at £10k per week on the now customary 4 year deal is £4m. That leaves £500k per player in the transfer fee.

If the £5m is just transfers then it suggests we have £9m in the pot. That’s mind boggling inconsistent with Venkys approach up to this point (post-parachute payments).

[Bbrovers2288]

I don’t think the offer to forest was accepted, certainly never seemed close. SSN broke it and dismantled it in about 5 minutes. I can’t see champ teams or lg1 teams loaning out their best players when they have their own aspirations to deal with. Transfers are much more attractive than loans, so I think we will struggle for quality 

[Stuart]

5 minutes ago, Bbrovers2288 said:

I don’t think the offer to forest was accepted, certainly never seemed close. SSN broke it and dismantled it in about 5 minutes. I can’t see champ teams or lg1 teams loaning out their best players when they have their own aspirations to deal with. Transfers are much more attractive than loans, so I think we will struggle for quality 

The only chink of light is the literal embarrassment of riches that PL teams have these days. Many players are going to have to go on loan to the Championship to get game time.

[JHRover]

Summer 18 - approx. £2.5 million on Armstrong, Davenport and Rothwell

January 18 - approx. £200-300k on Bell

Summer 17 - approx. £1 million on Dack and Samuel

January 17 - approx. £0 with Joao on loan

Summer 16 - approx. £200-300k on Williams

January 16 - approx. £0 with a few loans and a couple of frees

Summer 15 - approx. £0

January 15 - approx. £0

Summer 14 - approx. £1 million at most on Duffy and Steele

January 14 - approx. £500k or so on Gestede and Cairney

Summer 13 - approx. £1 million or so on Evans and Marshall

That's why I find it hard to believe they were ready to spend £5 million on one player yesterday.

[blueboy3333]

Comparisons with other clubs are pretty pointless really because we've come up a division. Most clubs in the Championship already have good Championship squads, unsurprisingly. We have been playing catch up to a degree this summer. In our favour is that a few of the players we had last season were already of decent Championship quality. We should make a good fist of staying up with what we have but as others have said we are relying on luck that 2 or 3 really key players don't get injured; Graham, Lenihan and Dack staying fit and playing well are vital to our chances. If we lost Lenihan, especially, we would be in a whole world of defensive pain. If we are relying on luck then questions have to be asked about the recruitment process.

The club has failed so far in this window by the standards verbally set by Mogga and Waggott. We didn't get all our deals done by the start of training, we didn't get an experienced goalkeeper, we didn't get (much) Championship experience, we didn't get a CB, we didn't get a striker (or a proper winger). There's even a story in the LT today where Mogga is quoted as saying "I'm sure fans are waiting to see the investment" before going back on Ewood and I'm sure he's right. There are 8-10k 'superfans' that turn up regardless, Mogga is aware that the other 17k that turned up for Oxford want to see 'the investment' (and Prem football) before they bother on a regular basis. I'm pretty sure those quotes were from before yesterday and that Mogga will be gutted about what didn't happen on deadline day. 

As for how realistic those late bids were it's a tricky one. I realise we have to trust in Mowbray (whatever that means) but the Notiingham paper reported the £5m bid for Brereton as a bid that was 'never likely to succeed'. You'd be surprised if Waggott wasn't aware of that. He should have been. So I think it's fair to ask if it was just a publicity stunt to detract from the fact the new recruitment process trumpeted by the club had failed. If it was Rovers who leaked the bid then I think we know the answer.

On to the loan window and we need to be getting deals done. How realistic it is to get all the elements Mogga said he wanted is debatable. Will we get good Championship experience on loan? A striker to back up Graham? An experienced goalkeeper or CB? Possible, but as Mowbray said we are likely to be getting young Prem players in the loan window. (Preston got two from City in the last week so the pool is already getting smaller) Young attacking talent seems favourite from the loan window. As for loans with a view to a permanent deal no Prem clubs will do that unless they want rid. Of the ones we signed last season only Antonnson had a fee agreed for the end of the loan and that was because he wasn't good enough and Leeds wanted rid. I thought Mogga talking up the 'loan with a view to permanent' deals a week ago didn't bode well for the proper window. All that talk of A-D lists was a bit weird too and not what a manager should be saying IMO, especially when you go on to sign one (Armstrong) who you had previously you said wasn't on the top of your list. But then I think Mogga is a bit eccentric to say the least. I think others call it 'honest'!

So, all in all, in the cold light of day yesterday was a massive disappointment UNLESS Mogga gets what he wants on loan before the end of August . Regardless, a bit of momentum was lost and a bit of 'trust'. A lot of big talk about bringing 3, 4 or 5 more in after AA was a bit of a joke in retrospect. We didn't bring any in. 

 

 

[OJRovers]

23 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Summer 18 - approx. £2.5 million on Armstrong, Davenport and Rothwell

January 18 - approx. £200-300k on Bell

Summer 17 - approx. £1 million on Dack and Samuel

January 17 - approx. £0 with Joao on loan

Summer 16 - approx. £200-300k on Williams

January 16 - approx. £0 with a few loans and a couple of frees

Summer 15 - approx. £0

January 15 - approx. £0

Summer 14 - approx. £1 million at most on Duffy and Steele

January 14 - approx. £500k or so on Gestede and Cairney

Summer 13 - approx. £1 million or so on Evans and Marshall

That's why I find it hard to believe they were ready to spend £5 million on one player yesterday.

When you look back at that - and take into account the money brought in from sales - the lack of investment in players by Venkys is shocking.

It's amazing that we're still competing just one league down from the Premiership with that little expenditure on transfer fees over the last 5 years.

 

[AllRoverAsia]

47 minutes ago, Stuart said:

Where is the evidence that we have £5m burning a hole in our pocket?

And even if we do, this presumably includes wages? Two players at £10k per week on the now customary 4 year deal is £4m. That leaves £500k per player in the transfer fee.

If the £5m is just transfers then it suggests we have £9m in the pot. That’s mind boggling inconsistent with Venkys approach up to this point (post-parachute payments).

Are we not reported to have bid £5 million for Brereton after bidding £4 million for Freeman and $1.25 for Trapp. Those figures are just the purchase price of the player offered by Rovers, not wages/agents fees etc. Imo.

Assuming those bids are real there is a minimum of £5 million looking for a home, hell nearer £10 million if accumulative.lol

I want whatever it is spent on players and not 'carried forward'......

I want proof it exists, nowhere on this MB have I said that I am convinced it does.

 

[islander200]

10 minutes ago, OJRovers said:

When you look back at that - and take into account the money brought in from sales - the lack of investment in players by Venkys is shocking.

It's amazing that we're still competing just one league down from the Premiership with that little expenditure on transfer fees over the last 5 years.

 

It's the buisness done before that put the breaks on any spending.

As much as I'm thankful that the arrival of Shabby Singh brought an end to Steve keans reign, we wasted ridiculous amounts of money in the market offering huge contract to has beens and Portuguese youngsters

[FGS5635]

Looking back on some of the crazy deals, I wouldnt mind rochina back in this side. I noticed he still tweets about rovers from time to time. Wonder what he is up to these days

[BlackburnEnd75]

Its hard for me to judge at this point how successful we've been as there's still scope for us to fix a few things with a few loans to buy. As I've noted in other threads i'm not as doom and gloom as others but i'd rate the window as a 6 out of 10 so far. But judging from Mowbray's comment at the start of the window it looked like we wanted 6 transfers in total; 4 permanents and 2 loans which we haven't got.

Positives:

- New contracts for Dack and Lenihan

- Didn't lose anybody we wanted

- Davenport; was a  great surprise when we got him on a permanent transfer rather than a loan. Looks a strong piece of business for us although he won't go into the first 11 straight away. Centre Mid was been one of our weaker areas for some time so hopefully he's the long term solution.

- Palmer;  On paper a very good loan signing. Although I don't like developing other teams players he is a lot better than I expected us to get. He's highly rated, has some experience in the Prem, has experience getting out of this league, Can play in more than one position so gives us options.

-Armstrong; Was very pleased we've got him. Good price (£1.75million) for this market, he's only, 21 has bags of pace, can slot straight into the side. I didn't expect us to spend this much one player

- We've not overpaid for anyone (eg. £2million for a cb in league 1 with one year left on there contract)

- If we end up with Gallagher and Chapman on loan with a permanent agreed for January then that for me would make it a good window. 

- As the squad stands I think its good enough to stay up which is the minimum requirement. Even if Danny Graham gets a bad injury

Negatives

- We didn't get players in early enough in the window.

- We've not shifted any deadwood out yet, loan or otherwise (Gladwin, Hart, Caddis, Whittingham) which to be fair is tough

- Scott Warton went on loan to league 2 when he could should be playing in League 1 (If we'd got a centre back in early on then he would've gone to league 1)

- Rothwell; I don't get this signing, thought Payne looked a better bet than him. Not sure where he fits it tbh. Doesn't seem to be a centre mid, he didn't impress out wide in pre-season and we've got better options there, and Palmer is a better option in the hole. Was he a stop gap in case we didn't get anyone else? If someone can explain this one to me a bit more i'd like to hear it!

- No Striker (as of yet) - we are desperate for a back for Graham, we all know this.

- No Winger/ wide player - we have a lot of options out wide when you count them up, but not that many natural wide players, would've liked to have one more quality wide player or someone like Chapman who has x-factor. Disappointing but we can live without.

- No Commanding CB - could be a big issue if we get an injury to Lenihan or Mulgrew. Also we need to be preparing for Mulgrew to leave in the summer.

- We actually had plans and targets for a transfer window and it hasn't worked

- We moved for a lot of players in the last few days of the window and got nobody - thus getting everyone hopes up and not delivering

- We play the poor card but now teams know we've got up to £million to spend

Have I missed anything?

 

 

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, JHRover said:

Summer 18 - approx. £2.5 million on Armstrong, Davenport and Rothwell

January 18 - approx. £200-300k on Bell

Summer 17 - approx. £1 million on Dack and Samuel

January 17 - approx. £0 with Joao on loan

Summer 16 - approx. £200-300k on Williams

January 16 - approx. £0 with a few loans and a couple of frees

Summer 15 - approx. £0

January 15 - approx. £0

Summer 14 - approx. £1 million at most on Duffy and Steele

January 14 - approx. £500k or so on Gestede and Cairney

Summer 13 - approx. £1 million or so on Evans and Marshall

That's why I find it hard to believe they were ready to spend £5 million on one player yesterday.

Waggot might have looked at that a decided it was time for some window dressing for a bit of good PR !

Backfired a bit if so especially if you fancy another 1.5 million pound plus player in Jan and clubs and agents think you have 9 million going spare.

[Hasta]

2 hours ago, FGS5635 said:

If what we are led to believe is true, then the tactic nearly worked. We nearly bagged Bereton for under his market value. The bid was accepted, the player refused as the bid apparently caught him off guard.

Maybe that deal goes in again once he has time to sleep on it

If that is true then it shows that Rovers had all summer to plan their transfer activity but only submitted the bid last minute before the window ended. Otherwise Bereton would have had time to sleep on it. Either way it still points to recruitment failure.

Edited August 10, 2018 by Hasta

[blueboy3333]

 

2 hours ago, FGS5635 said:

If what we are led to believe is true, then the tactic nearly worked. We nearly bagged Bereton for under his market value. The bid was accepted, the player refused as the bid apparently caught him off guard.

Maybe that deal goes in again once he has time to sleep on it

The Brereton bid was rejected http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/16409801.rovers-bids-for-ben-brereton-and-luke-freeman-knocked-back/?ref=mac

Edited August 10, 2018 by blueboy3333

[FGS5635]

27 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

 

The Brereton bid was rejected http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/16409801.rovers-bids-for-ben-brereton-and-luke-freeman-knocked-back/?ref=mac

Ah fair enough. In all the mayhem yesterday Im sure it got reported the other way initially. I stand corrected

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

3 hours ago, blueboy3333 said:

Comparisons with other clubs are pretty pointless really because we've come up a division. Most clubs in the Championship already have good Championship squads, unsurprisingly. We have been playing catch up to a degree this summer. In our favour is that a few of the players we had last season were already of decent Championship quality. We should make a good fist of staying up with what we have but as others have said we are relying on luck that 2 or 3 really key players don't get injured; Graham, Lenihan and Dack staying fit and playing well are vital to our chances. If we lost Lenihan, especially, we would be in a whole world of defensive pain. If we are relying on luck then questions have to be asked about the recruitment process.

The club has failed so far in this window by the standards verbally set by Mogga and Waggott. We didn't get all our deals done by the start of training, we didn't get an experienced goalkeeper, we didn't get (much) Championship experience, we didn't get a CB, we didn't get a striker (or a proper winger). There's even a story in the LT today where Mogga is quoted as saying "I'm sure fans are waiting to see the investment" before going back on Ewood and I'm sure he's right. There are 8-10k 'superfans' that turn up regardless, Mogga is aware that the other 17k that turned up for Oxford want to see 'the investment' (and Prem football) before they bother on a regular basis. I'm pretty sure those quotes were from before yesterday and that Mogga will be gutted about what didn't happen on deadline day. 

As for how realistic those late bids were it's a tricky one. I realise we have to trust in Mowbray (whatever that means) but the Notiingham paper reported the £5m bid for Brereton as a bid that was 'never likely to succeed'. You'd be surprised if Waggott wasn't aware of that. He should have been. So I think it's fair to ask if it was just a publicity stunt to detract from the fact the new recruitment process trumpeted by the club had failed. If it was Rovers who leaked the bid then I think we know the answer.

On to the loan window and we need to be getting deals done. How realistic it is to get all the elements Mogga said he wanted is debatable. Will we get good Championship experience on loan? A striker to back up Graham? An experienced goalkeeper or CB? Possible, but as Mowbray said we are likely to be getting young Prem players in the loan window. (Preston got two from City in the last week so the pool is already getting smaller) Young attacking talent seems favourite from the loan window. As for loans with a view to a permanent deal no Prem clubs will do that unless they want rid. Of the ones we signed last season only Antonnson had a fee agreed for the end of the loan and that was because he wasn't good enough and Leeds wanted rid. I thought Mogga talking up the 'loan with a view to permanent' deals a week ago didn't bode well for the proper window. All that talk of A-D lists was a bit weird too and not what a manager should be saying IMO, especially when you go on to sign one (Armstrong) who you had previously you said wasn't on the top of your list. But then I think Mogga is a bit eccentric to say the least. I think others call it 'honest'!

So, all in all, in the cold light of day yesterday was a massive disappointment UNLESS Mogga gets what he wants on loan before the end of August . Regardless, a bit of momentum was lost and a bit of 'trust'. A lot of big talk about bringing 3, 4 or 5 more in after AA was a bit of a joke in retrospect. We didn't bring any in. 

 

 

I read the article in the LT.  Given that Sharpe is having a day off.  I suspect that was written prior to the window closing - so TM   comments would  possibly be  alluding  to  the players he  expected  to sign yesterday.   Surprised they still ran with it.

 

 

Edited August 10, 2018 by Wing Wizard Windy Miller

[chaddyrovers]

17 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

No one doubts that he is TRYING to make the right decisions. Its just, regarding the window, hes not made the right decisions, or if he has, hes failed to act successfully on those right decisions.

Everyone trusts him, that hes doing his best, hes working hard, but hes ultimately failed to get not only what we wanted and could see we needed as supporters, but im sure he will be disappointing himself.

I get that theres reasons why deals get delayed, there can be a domino effect, but he kept saying he had lists of various players he wanted. You mention Brereton but if that was a player we had in mind, surely a time crops up before the last day, precisely the last hour, before you spring it on the player even if the bid is accepted to move to a new team, that you try and force the issue sooner or move elsewhere, you make the decision. Take Bauer for example as well, he was clearly our number 1 target at centre back, but Mowbray said he had moved on, his unavailability was clear a while back, so surely get the wheels in motion for another deal to get over the line. And im not saying panic buy any old crap, but if there are names on a list, surely they are all players he feel would improve us or they wouldnt be on the list in the first place.

Regarding being satisfied at the end of August, I hope you are right. And I agree that its not the end of the world, I still think wed survive but it wouldnt take much more to allow us to be more fanciful of a much higher finish. 

Did Brereton only become available on the day or 2 before the transfer permanent window? I don't know. Did his agent phone clubs offering his services late yesterday before the deadline(a couple of hours before)? Just a thought. 

on the centre back target? Is Mowbray only looking a loan deal for this position until he can sign Bauer in summer on a free.

I hope I'm right. 

17 hours ago, Ricky said:

Chaddy, you’re a joke! You always have been but you’ve got even worse.

You were clear on how many players you expected us to bring in, we haven’t and now you have to try to put a spin on it and say you’re happy. How can you be happy when the areas you expected covered haven’t been.

I can see why you get so much stick.

Thanks very much ?

Cos Mowbray can still bring in 3 loan players with 2 being loan with a view to permanent deal in January. 

10 hours ago, philipl said:

People really ought to read that list of transfers and get a grip of themselves.

That's why I posted the list of transfers to show members of this messageboard how much money has been spent and how many loan deals they have been this summer. 

 

5 hours ago, JHRover said:

 

That's why I find it hard to believe they were ready to spend £5 million on one player yesterday.

What is so hard to believe JHRover that the owners back the manager with some cash? 

Mowbray has been here 18 months and the owners clearly like it. Mowbray has also maintain he had money to spend after the India meetings. Yes it is disappointing that Mowbray didn't use that money to buy the positions we need players in. Yes we needed a pacey winger, Striker and back up centre back. Now This still can be rectify in the loan window but yes we would all prefer more permanent signings than loan signings. Mowbray has to solve the problem with 2 loan with a view permanent deal now and 1 simple loan. Yes they are a number of players I would have let here who has move to other clubs or haven't move yet. would you like a list? 

 

[islander200]

5 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Did Brereton only become available on the day or 2 before the transfer permanent window? I don't know. Did his agent phone clubs offering his services late yesterday before the deadline(a couple of hours before)? Just a thought. 

on the centre back target? Is Mowbray only looking a loan deal for this position until he can sign Bauer in summer on a free.

I hope I'm right. 

Thanks very much ?

Cos Mowbray can still bring in 3 loan players with 2 being loan with a view to permanent deal in January. 

That's why I posted the list of transfers to show members of this messageboard how much money has been spent and how many loan deals they have been this summer. 

 

What is so hard to believe JHRover that the owners back the manager with some cash? 

Mowbray has been here 18 months and the owners clearly like it. Mowbray has also maintain he had money to spend after the India meetings. Yes it is disappointing that Mowbray didn't use that money to buy the positions we need players in. Yes we needed a pacey winger, Striker and back up centre back. Now This still can be rectify in the loan window but yes we would all prefer more permanent signings than loan signings. Mowbray has to solve the problem with 2 loan with a view permanent deal now and 1 simple loan. Yes they are a number of players I would have let here who has move to other clubs or haven't move yet. would you like a list? 

 

Do you know why there wasn't a pre match presser today Chaddy?

Whoever the itk guy is who was giving you info must have been on the wind up not a lot he said came true

[AspRover]

I'd say that this window we did the acceptable bare minimum. We didn't weaken the squad, tying certain players down to longer contracts will be of great benefit one way or the other and I'm cautiously optimistic about the few players we did bring in.

No more than that though. Not a disaster - it's easy to imagine a worse window (selling Mulgrew or Lenihan without adequate replacements etc.) - but it'd be a stretch to say that it was a particularly good one.

[Ricky]

20 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Cos Mowbray can still bring in 3 loan players with 2 being loan with a view to permanent deal in January. 

 

And I could still win the lottery tomorrow night. There’s nothing saying he’s going to bring in 3 loans with 2 being loans with a permenant deal agreed in January.

[rigger]

I am of the belief that you can only judge signings on their contribution to your team, not on potential or what they have done before.