Transfer Window - Success or Failure

[RV Blue]

Don’t be surprised to see Evans’ performance levels drop off a cliff once he signs a new deal. Give him a 12 month extension - max.

[BlackburnEnd75]

2 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I would be more disappointed if he left on a free 

Depends if we have money to sign a replacement.

[blueboy3333]

Palmer - 1 goal and very little else - probably a No.10 being played out of position - 4/10

Armstrong - contributed 1 league goal (a flukey cross) and not a lot else - played out of position - 4/10

Rothwell - contributed 1 assist and very little else. Not sure where his best position is - 4/10

Brereton - £7m, two assists and played out of position - 4/10

Reed - 1 goal, some good performances - 7/10

Rodwell - work in progress but could be a very good signing if his body holds up. - 6/10

Conclusion - Square pegs, round holes - failure. 

Edited November 25, 2018 by blueboy3333

[G Somerset Rover]

Conclusion: where the bloody hell was the Graham alternative if you deem Brereton a winger, Tony?

[DE.]

11 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

Palmer - 1 goal and very little else - probably a No.10 being played out of position - 4/10

Armstrong - contributed 1 league goal (a flukey cross) and not a lot else - played out of position - 4/10

Rothwell - contributed 1 assist and very little else. Not sure where his best position is - 4/10

Brereton - £7m, two assists and played out of position - 4/10

Reed - 1 goal, some good performances - 7/10

Rodwell - work in progress but could be a very good signing if his body holds up. - 6/10

Conclusion - Square pegs, round holes - failure. 

Largely agree with this, although with Brereton's fee taken into account I'd have to put his mark at closer to a 2 or 3. £7m for a striker who isn't trusted to play against Rotherham or Preston, and when he does get a few minutes on the pitch it's out wide? Something isn't right there. 

[K-Hod]

I’ve very little doubt that if we played the correct players in their correct positions, we’d be better off. 

Before anyone makes a straw man out of me, I trust Mowbray, but some of the decisions he makes are baffling at times. Why are we spending the most money in years on a striker, not playing him as one, even when we leave out our main striker? Strongest players in their strongest positions, please Tony! 

I’d also be tempted to give Raya a rest to get his surgery boxed off. I can’t help but think his injury and subsequent need to wear a mask is in the back of his mind during games... 

Edited November 25, 2018 by K-Hod

[tomphil]

He likes versatile players and that's fine but it doesn't mean he has to try odd things just to shoehorn them in and prove that versatility just use it when it's needed.

Horses for courses for a while, get in a decent 6ft plus target man and some pace wide and leave off the midfielders who can supposedly play in multiple positions across the middle for a while.

TM is a forward thinker and that's great but sometimes it makes the team go in reverse !

[Ewood Ace]

The most telling thing about our signings is that only Reed the only one who is a regular week in week out he's has been the stand out signing by far. Palmer I feel a bit sorry for as he clearly has ability but he is in and out of the team and is being played all over the place, so it is hard for him to build up any consistency. Rothwell looks a tidy player who will get better the more he play's but Mowbray doesn't seem to have much faith in him. Rodwell we need to take our time with but he has looked good and if we manage him well he could be a key player for years to come. Armstrong has been poor bar the Leeds game, you can see why he hasn't cut it at this level before as he is one dimensional when he has the ball and to lightweight as well.

As for Brereton major questions are beginning to arise for Mowbray in regards to the lad. Did Mowbray sign him as a striker or a winger? I would guess a striker as that is where he played at Bristol City when he came on for his debut (although he hasn't played there since). In which case you have to ask why isn't he playing as a striker now and why wasn't more due diligence done before spending such a big sum of money? Fair enough Brereton is young and may have potential but if a club in our position (or indeed any Championship club) is spending £7 Million on a player you would have thought that he would have started a few games yet Brereton has been available for 12 games and still not started one game.   

[Oldgregg86]

7 hours ago, blueboy3333 said:

Palmer - 1 goal and very little else - probably a No.10 being played out of position - 4/10

Armstrong - contributed 1 league goal (a flukey cross) and not a lot else - played out of position - 4/10

Rothwell - contributed 1 assist and very little else. Not sure where his best position is - 4/10

Brereton - £7m, two assists and played out of position - 4/10

Reed - 1 goal, some good performances - 7/10

Rodwell - work in progress but could be a very good signing if his body holds up. - 6/10

Conclusion - Square pegs, round holes - failure. 

That's it in a nutshell. Close the thread

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

7 hours ago, blueboy3333 said:

Palmer - 1 goal and very little else - probably a No.10 being played out of position - 4/10

Armstrong - contributed 1 league goal (a flukey cross) and not a lot else - played out of position - 4/10

Rothwell - contributed 1 assist and very little else. Not sure where his best position is - 4/10

Brereton - £7m, two assists and played out of position - 4/10

Reed - 1 goal, some good performances - 7/10

Rodwell - work in progress but could be a very good signing if his body holds up. - 6/10

Conclusion - Square pegs, round holes - failure. 

Didn't we sign somebody called Davenport also or did I imagine that one ?

[roversfan99]

The most galling thing is there is certainly some quality in that list.

There is a chance hopefully that some will be utilised correctly or to their maximum going forward. 

The problem is that most have been under-utilised, wrongly utilised or not fit for the purpose of what we needed in the summer.

The main 3 pitfalls of the squad in the summer were centre back, winger and striker. None of them, for various reasons, have been addressed. 

Mowbray is doing a lot right but he also must take the flak from that. The striker is obviously potentially below his nose and being incorrectly used but still...

[47er]

10 hours ago, blueboy3333 said:

Palmer - 1 goal and very little else - probably a No.10 being played out of position - 4/10

Armstrong - contributed 1 league goal (a flukey cross) and not a lot else - played out of position - 4/10

Rothwell - contributed 1 assist and very little else. Not sure where his best position is - 4/10

Brereton - £7m, two assists and played out of position - 4/10

Reed - 1 goal, some good performances - 7/10

Rodwell - work in progress but could be a very good signing if his body holds up. - 6/10

Conclusion - Square pegs, round holes - failure. 

A couple of weeks ago posters would have ben queueing up to hit their laughter buttons at this.

Its finally sinking in.

[Tom]

Even if the players brought in had more of an impact I think it was a howler and uncharacteristic awful man management in the handling of Nuttall and Travis.

Both have just wasted a good half a season and lost any momentum they had at crucial parts of their careers.

Since the window closed I think Trav has had about 20 minutes and Nuttall not even made the bench.

[JBiz]

21 hours ago, blueboy3333 said:

Palmer - 1 goal and very little else - probably a No.10 being played out of position - 4/10

Armstrong - contributed 1 league goal (a flukey cross) and not a lot else - played out of position - 4/10

Rothwell - contributed 1 assist and very little else. Not sure where his best position is - 4/10

Brereton - £7m, two assists and played out of position - 4/10

Reed - 1 goal, some good performances - 7/10

Rodwell - work in progress but could be a very good signing if his body holds up. - 6/10

Conclusion - Square pegs, round holes - failure. 

Just my own take;

1. Palmer - show pony, no best position, doesn’t work hard enough but has plenty of talent/technique and potential 5/10

2. Armstrong - looked great in a few matches, particularly leeds at home, versatile but maybe inconsistent at minute. Absolute bargain and only 22- 8/10

3. Rothwell - not had much time but has looked potentially a good winger, another versatile squad man - needs more minutes 6/10

4. Brererton - exciting signing that can play all along the front, only 19, started to make more impact, an assist, a penalty and a close offside goal. Long term investment looking fantastic for me - depends if you “believe” the fee- 8/10

5. Reed - looks like a clever Evans, definitley prem class, can hopefully make perm 8/10

6. Rodwell - risk but the reward is an ex England and prem player who has as good of first touch as anyone - Centreback or Centre mid quality 7/10

Conclusion - long term our squad is shaping o nicely.

 

[perthblue02]

13 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Didn't we sign somebody called Davenport also or did I imagine that one ?

Yeah, on a four year contract

[JHRover]

I don't believe Nuttall is good enough so I'm not too concerned he hasn't featured. Travis is more of a disappointment as I think he could have a bright future yet it seems he isn't in contention. Trouble is he's often not even playing in the U23s as he's travelling with the senior squad but either not making the bench or not being used from the bench.

Davenport something just doesn't sit right with me.

[blueboy3333]

19 minutes ago, Biz said:

Just my own take;

1. Palmer - show pony, no best position, doesn’t work hard enough but has plenty of talent/technique and potential 5/10

2. Armstrong - looked great in a few matches, particularly leeds at home, versatile but maybe inconsistent at minute. Absolute bargain and only 22- 8/10 

3. Rothwell - not had much time but has looked potentially a good winger, another versatile squad man - needs more minutes 6/10

4. Brererton - exciting signing that can play all along the front, only 19, started to make more impact, an assist, a penalty and a close offside goal. Long term investment looking fantastic for me - depends if you “believe” the fee- 8/10

5. Reed - looks like a clever Evans, definitley prem class, can hopefully make perm 8/10

6. Rodwell - risk but the reward is an ex England and prem player who has as good of first touch as anyone - Centreback or Centre mid quality 7/10

Conclusion - long term our squad is shaping o nicely.

 

Palmer - you agree he's shit but you've mentioned the word potential so 'yay' great signing. I'll stick with 4/10 

Armstrong an 8. Are you his mum? He's created absolutely nothing from the wing. He's made some great runs but there's no end product. His crossing is poor. He's a goalscorer and is completely wasted out wide so I don't blame him, like a few other he's being played out of position. Square pegs etc....He'd be perfect in a 2 up front. In fairness though he's playing in a team that doesn't create chances so he makes some clever runs in behind the full backand they are usually for nothing because he doesn't get the ball. He'd be an 8 in the right team I've no doubt, but not playing on the wing in a long-ball time like he is now. 

Rothwell - can't get a game but the manager is bigging him up a la Gladwin. He has ability but I don't think he's a winger (he was poor out there for Oxford by all accounts). Based on his contribution so far 4/10.

BB - excellent signing? The manager doesn't even rate him enough to play him. Spending £7m on 'potential' is insane. That's what the finished article goes for in our league. Again, though. if the manger won't play him in his favoured position and give him an extended run then it's unfair to be too harsh on the lad. There's a theme developing here...

Reed - we agree on, excellent signing so far. Rodwell has been fine in the few games he's played and could be a bargain if his body holds up

When your signings can't even get in the team and you've spent close to £10m+ on them then questions will rightly be asked. The team is still full of the players he inherited. His signings have been generally poor. 

I considered the 'laughing' emoji like you did with my post but then I realised I was the better man. 

Edited November 26, 2018 by blueboy3333

[perthblue02]

On 10/10/2018 at 16:09, JacknOry said:

Id perhaps give him a year extension with the option of another. That should keep him playing for his next contract.

With a clause in the contract :Remember who pays your wages , do not expend too much energy in International games

[G Somerset Rover]

Brereton 8/10?! Jesus wept.

[roversfan99]

43 minutes ago, Biz said:

Just my own take;

1. Palmer - show pony, no best position, doesn’t work hard enough but has plenty of talent/technique and potential 5/10

2. Armstrong - looked great in a few matches, particularly leeds at home, versatile but maybe inconsistent at minute. Absolute bargain and only 22- 8/10

3. Rothwell - not had much time but has looked potentially a good winger, another versatile squad man - needs more minutes 6/10

4. Brererton - exciting signing that can play all along the front, only 19, started to make more impact, an assist, a penalty and a close offside goal. Long term investment looking fantastic for me - depends if you “believe” the fee- 8/10

5. Reed - looks like a clever Evans, definitley prem class, can hopefully make perm 8/10

6. Rodwell - risk but the reward is an ex England and prem player who has as good of first touch as anyone - Centreback or Centre mid quality 7/10

Conclusion - long term our squad is shaping o nicely.

 

Most people havent doubted necessarily the quality of the individuals. But you havent accounted for whether they are fit for purpose.

The main position Mowbray was seeking in the summer was a striker, he said as much. He signed 7 players (Davenport too) including 9m on 2 strikers. Does the fact that we have only 1 striker in Graham considered for that role before we resort to playing midfielders there not even remotely suggest that he is not fit for purpose. 

Literally no idea how you can give a player yet to start a League game an 8 out of 10 and describe as "fantastic" is beyond me. And that is not a slight on Brereton as an individual.

Neither Armstrongs poor form this season nor Rodwells lack of game time warrants the high mark you have given them.

I dont think peoples main gripe is the quality of signing in terms of the individuals. Its the balance of the squad and signing players in the positions that were needed.

[BlackburnEnd75]

34 minutes ago, JHRover said:

I don't believe Nuttall is good enough so I'm not too concerned he hasn't featured. Travis is more of a disappointment as I think he could have a bright future yet it seems he isn't in contention. Trouble is he's often not even playing in the U23s as he's travelling with the senior squad but either not making the bench or not being used from the bench.

Davenport something just doesn't sit right with me.

Davenport has been injured? I don't understand what doesn't sit right. He got injured in the last pre-season game with a bad groin injury was out for a couple of months, worked his way back with the under 23's (scored a good goal vs Liverpool) then picked up another thigh injury in training. These things happen, he'll get a chance in 2019.

[JBiz]

38 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

Palmer - you agree he's shit but you've mentioned the word potential so 'yay' great signing. I'll stick with 4/10 

Armstrong an 8. Are you his mum? He's created absolutely nothing from the wing. He's made some great runs but there's no end product. His crossing is poor. He's a goalscorer and is completely wasted out wide so I don't blame him, like a few other he's being played out of position. Square pegs etc....He'd be perfect in a 2 up front. In fairness though he's playing in a team that doesn't create chances so he makes some clever runs in behind the full backand they are usually for nothing because he doesn't get the ball. He'd be an 8 in the right team I've no doubt, but not playing on the wing in a long-ball time like he is now. 

Rothwell - can't get a game but the manager is bigging him up a la Gladwin. He has ability but I don't think he's a winger (he was poor out there for Oxford by all accounts). Based on his contribution so far 4/10.

BB - excellent signing? The manager doesn't even rate him enough to play him. Spending £7m on 'potential' is insane. That's what the finished article goes for in our league. Again, though. if the manger won't play him in his favoured position and give him an extended run then it's unfair to be too harsh on the lad. There's a theme developing here...

Reed - we agree on, excellent signing so far. Rodwell has been fine in the few games he's played and could be a bargain if his body holds up

When your signings can't even get in the team and you've spent close to £10m+ on them then questions will rightly be asked. The team is still full of the players he inherited. His signings have been generally poor. 

I considered the 'laughing' emoji like you did with my post but then I realised I was the better man. 

The better man? Haha. Now that’s funny.

I stand by my ratings of the signings, which are based on more than my immediate reaction to a defeat, Boris.

Im not Armstrong’s mum, but I’m certainly aghast to see him rated as a poor signing. “Lazy little tossers” don’t normally make runs though, thus I’m confused you’d say that. I’m taking all your comments on players with a pinch of salt from now on.

You know.... we might end up playing a different system at some point, imagine signing a load of players that could only fit into one style! The square peg comments simply turn a decent discussion into a sweeping “I know best” argument.

10 minutes ago, Gavlar Somerset Rover! said:

Brereton 8/10?! Jesus wept.

I personally would’ve been 9/10 but reigned myself in. I am very excited about his impact over the next few years, and he’s already starting to get into games. Remember, still hasn’t started one!

13 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Most people havent doubted necessarily the quality of the individuals. But you havent accounted for whether they are fit for purpose.

The main position Mowbray was seeking in the summer was a striker, he said as much. He signed 7 players (Davenport too) including 9m on 2 strikers. Does the fact that we have only 1 striker in Graham considered for that role before we resort to playing midfielders there not even remotely suggest that he is not fit for purpose. 

Literally no idea how you can give a player yet to start a League game an 8 out of 10 and describe as "fantastic" is beyond me. And that is not a slight on Brereton as an individual.

Neither Armstrongs poor form this season nor Rodwells lack of game time warrants the high mark you have given them.

I dont think peoples main gripe is the quality of signing in terms of the individuals. Its the balance of the squad and signing players in the positions that were needed.

I could criticise the transfer business for not bringing competition for the sole striker role - the “warrior” or “wily” style hold up striker that Danny is, but that doesn’t mean I’m not impressed and happy we’ve added other quality attackers for different roles!

I expect we will see system changes throughout the season, and I also expect they’ll be trying to add more quality upfront. We’ve quite a luxurious amount of options for mixing between two/three attackers.

The thread is about transfer business and the previous window overall, not the on pitch performance thus far - I’ve no idea how people can be so critical of the club-manager for adding potential and an actual investment - so much so that people are now saying the manager didn’t choose him... that’s far more confusing I feel, than me being excited that we’ve added an England u20 WC winner in an exciting position, only 3 months after being third tier....

Balance is a key issue but balance isn’t simple and it’s talked about as if we should simply expect it.

If we’d signed two out and out target men forwards instead of AA and B.B, we would’ve likely been reading complaints about only having 1 position for 3 players. Swings and roundabouts.

 

[Oldgregg86]

The signings in isolation look like decent investments. He has signed some good young players and created a competitive squad and the building blocks to a good team. The signings he brjngs in, in the next couple  of windows are going to be an indicator of where we are actually going. 

However the way he utilises his signings makes no sense. How can we build a team when no one knows where they are supposed to be playing. When players are signed for one position and playing elsewhere. How do we know what positions need strengthening when after half a season nobody knows what players we actually have or what there capable of. 

It all sounds nice in theory when you listen to a passionate interview or read his ambitions but on the field it's starting to look like an unbalanced mess. 

If he is to live up to the levels he has set then his next signings have to be first team starters. Preferably proven. As potential is only a word for could be

Edited November 26, 2018 by Oldgregg86

[Bigdoggsteel]

He has certainly brought pressure on himself by playing Palmer upfront in a derby game with Armstrong on the wing and DG and BB on the bench. Mad stuff 

[roversfan99]

2 hours ago, Biz said:

The better man? Haha. Now that’s funny.

I stand by my ratings of the signings, which are based on more than my immediate reaction to a defeat, Boris.

Im not Armstrong’s mum, but I’m certainly aghast to see him rated as a poor signing. “Lazy little tossers” don’t normally make runs though, thus I’m confused you’d say that. I’m taking all your comments on players with a pinch of salt from now on.

You know.... we might end up playing a different system at some point, imagine signing a load of players that could only fit into one style! The square peg comments simply turn a decent discussion into a sweeping “I know best” argument.

I personally would’ve been 9/10 but reigned myself in. I am very excited about his impact over the next few years, and he’s already starting to get into games. Remember, still hasn’t started one!

I could criticise the transfer business for not bringing competition for the sole striker role - the “warrior” or “wily” style hold up striker that Danny is, but that doesn’t mean I’m not impressed and happy we’ve added other quality attackers for different roles!

I expect we will see system changes throughout the season, and I also expect they’ll be trying to add more quality upfront. We’ve quite a luxurious amount of options for mixing between two/three attackers.

The thread is about transfer business and the previous window overall, not the on pitch performance thus far - I’ve no idea how people can be so critical of the club-manager for adding potential and an actual investment - so much so that people are now saying the manager didn’t choose him... that’s far more confusing I feel, than me being excited that we’ve added an England u20 WC winner in an exciting position, only 3 months after being third tier....

Balance is a key issue but balance isn’t simple and it’s talked about as if we should simply expect it.

If we’d signed two out and out target men forwards instead of AA and B.B, we would’ve likely been reading complaints about only having 1 position for 3 players. Swings and roundabouts.

 

But weve not even seen Brereton start a game so how can you give him such a high mark? Surely on the pitch performance even at such an early stage is the key thing to judge our signings on. Otherwise Palmer is still a talent who has recent, previous promotion credentials and is the most successful signing of them all, and not a show pony? A disallowed goal, an assist and a dive for a penalty are definitely signs that Brereton has something about him but we knew that anyway. The discussion is centralised around how he is used (well not used), the flawed/stupid explanation as to why hes not playing his natural position, and whether we can afford such a luxury. I dont think Brereton himself is getting much if any stick recently. Do you think the criticism of Mowbray playing him wide, and his attempts at justifying it, are valid, or do you agree with what people have said.

What mark would you give our overall transfer recruitment then? In terms of both quality of signing and the shape of the squad following these signings. Balance is difficult but its not impossible and I do feel that our squad is too imbalanced in certain areas.