Loan Window

[JeffRover]

People have been moaning on here that TM had been shafted by the owners but when he appears to be getting the cash to spend people are complaining! Absolutely laughable. When people perpetually say “it’s a gamble” it makes me angry. Name a transfer that isn’t a gamble. I remember people saying 12 months ago “why are we paying 750k for a one season wonder”. Rhodes didn’t have a single championship goal under his belt. The reason TM hasn’t gone for more ‘proven’ players is because of wages! Would people on here be happy for the club to go back handing 40k per week to dole dossers?

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Stuart said:

That seals it then. Sign him up.

Rhodes was a calculated gamble based on his record. This time we are gambling on the lad’s physique.

If we spend £4m plus add-ons up to an unlikely £8m then I’ll join the championing of these attributes and potential.

But if we spend £8m in instalments rising to £12m in add-ons then he should be under pressure to succeed from the off.

You're moving the goalposts again. You want 'proven Championship' quality. Rhodes wasn't that when we signed him but he turned out ok. Brereton obviously offers something Mowbray wants and is prepared to pay the money (up to a point). A calculated gamble like you say Rhodes was. 

[Stuart]

Just now, callumrovers said:

He's not wrong though. You seem to have put yourself on a pedestal.

Sounds like you have an inferiority complex pal. Your problem not mine.

[JeffRover]

In addition Mowbray says “a couple are edging closer, a couple not”. So where do people draw the fact that Brereton would be the only signing?

Edited August 19, 2018 by JeffRover

[dingles staying down 4ever]

7 minutes ago, JeffRover said:

In addition Mowbray says “a couple are edging closer, a couple not”. So where do people draw the fact that Brereton would be the only signing?

We will see in on 1 feb wont we? He was saying the same before the permanent signing deadlines.

[JacknOry]

At the end of the day, we can all say how we would prefer to spend the budget but it is TM who will ultimately decide and I dont think he would be signing this kid if he didnt believe he has what it takes. It would be a gamble yes and in my hands I would probably spread this apparent 8 million around on a few more players if that is all we had but, and I cant believe i'm going all Chaddy on this but we would have to trust his decision.

We do not even really know how much our budget is anyway and could possibly be trying to fill other positions too - though I would expect a couple in on loan. 

[Stuart]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

You're moving the goalposts again. You want 'proven Championship' quality. Rhodes wasn't that when we signed him but he turned out ok. Brereton obviously offers something Mowbray wants and is prepared to pay the money (up to a point). A calculated gamble like you say Rhodes was. 

Rhodes had scored a ridiculous number of goals at the level just below ours. It was a lot of money - which is why he got pelters on here (for not being the complete striker despite still scoring). Brereton has it all to prove.

The only goalposts I’m moving though is the price. Which is my only real problem with this one. (Because we have other areas that we could strengthen with that £8m).

[yeti-dog]

My take on the latest transfer window is that if we get in Brereton , Chapman & Bauer for say, £10m, then that'd be a success. This is possible and, given the noises Mowbray has been making, realistic. I initially wanted a centre mid but think Travis and Rothwell  can challenge the two cart-horses. I'd also wanted Maddison previously but it's clear we can't be after him given that he's been available with a clear price tag for ages and we haven't bit.

I do wonder about the motives of some on here bleating about an £8m gamble when you know they'd be screaming blue murder if we end up spending nothing. It smacks of covering all their bases to me. Most of our transfer business over the last few years has had an element of a gamble attached to it (and I include Dack in that).

In this case we really do need to let Mowbray throw the dice and make his plays - the ensuing success or failure will decide whether he sinks or swims.   

Edited August 19, 2018 by yeti-dog

[deryck guyler's spoon]

14 minutes ago, JeffRover said:

People have been moaning on here that TM had been shafted by the owners but when he appears to be getting the cash to spend people are complaining! Absolutely laughable. When people perpetually say “it’s a gamble” it makes me angry. Name a transfer that isn’t a gamble. I remember people saying 12 months ago “why are we paying 750k for a one season wonder”. Rhodes didn’t have a single championship goal under his belt. The reason TM hasn’t gone for more ‘proven’ players is because of wages! Would people on here be happy for the club to go back handing 40k per week to dole dossers?

The only 'risk free' transfer I can think was Ronaldo from Utd to Real Madrid. You'd need the equivalent of a small country's GDP to get a player in on minimal risk these days. If we pay circa 6-8 million quid for Brereton that seems about right in the current febrile market.

I'll be quite excited if it comes off, he seems a real prospect, has successfully represented his country, attracted the attention of some very big clubs and is said to have power, pace and ability. So what if we splurge some of the owner's dough? Those bastards have denuded the club of it's status, reputation, dignity and finances so they owe us big style. Lets hope Waggott and Mowbray get this over the line before the arse falls out of the Indian chicken market and Venkys pull the plug.

If we get this kid in I'd suggest that the naysayers stop navel gazing and enjoy the moment. 

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Stuart said:

Rhodes had scored a ridiculous number of goals at the level just below ours. It was a lot of money - which is why he got pelters on here (for not being the complete striker despite still scoring). Brereton has it all to prove.

The only goalposts I’m moving though is the price. Which is my only real problem with this one. (Because we have other areas that we could strengthen with that £8m).

But the price is irrelevant in that regard if Mowbray also has the money to spend on players in the other areas of the pitch he wants to strengthen. I think it's more an availability issue than a price issue anyway. Bowyer was in the paper saying he only has two CB's the other day so we probably aren't going to get Bauer.  

[Bbrovers2288]

No issues with splashing the cash as long as there is enough to go round and cover other areas. If we are blowing the whole lot on one lad tho I would be a bit miffed as there has been other deals done over summer that look a bit better value for money. In saying that, I don’t know a lot about Brereton, I’d be lying to say that I’d heard of him prior to deadline move but I’d be excited to see him in a rovers shirt and see what he is about and it’s a blessing that rovers are back in the champ with this kind of money to spend after the dark uncertain times of being relegated and looking like we were on a massive slide with no end in sight.

[Stuart]

5 minutes ago, yeti-dog said:

My take on the latest transfer window is that if we get in Brereton , Chapman & Bauer for say, £10m, then that'd be a success. This is possible and, given the noises Mowbray has been making, realistic. I initially wanted a centre mid but think Travis and Rothwell  can challenge the two cart-horses. I'd also wanted Maddison previously but it's clear we can't be after him given that he's been available with a clear price tag for ages and we haven't bit.

I do wonder about the motives of some on here bleating about an £8m gamble when you know they'd be screaming blue murder if we end up spending nothing. It smacks of covering all their bases to me. Most of our transfer business over the last few years has had an element of a gamble attached to it (and I include Dack in that).

In this case we really do need to let Mowbray throw the dice and make his plays - the ensuing success or failure will decide whether he sinks or swims.   

A good post. But it polarises the debate again in absolutes. You’ve made the argument: £8m for Brereton or buying no-one. Neither are what we should be doing with our squad as it is.

However, I’d prefer to stick with your opening offer. Brereton, Chapman and Bauer for £10m would be a successful window - when you include Armstrong, Davenport, Rothwell, and (hopefully) Palmer.

[Stuart]

2 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

But the price is irrelevant in that regard if Mowbray also has the money to spend on players in the other areas of the pitch he wants to strengthen. I think it's more an availability issue than a price issue anyway. Bowyer was in the paper saying he only has two CB's the other day so we probably aren't going to get Bauer.  

That’s a big IF but I would agree.

After all this I hope we do at least sign Brereton because arguing over the price will be nothing compared to the lack of grace if we actually don’t have real money to spend and its all bluster.

Edited August 19, 2018 by Stuart

[Jim Royle]

1 hour ago, Stuart said:

 

We are trying to have a rational discussion about something that is completely irrational but it’s good that people are being civil.

 

2 hours ago, Stuart said:

 

Some posters are starting to sound like a child trying to convince his parents that he “really needs” an iPhone X for his 11th birthday simply because his dad happened to have a wander round the Apple Store!

Mmmm

 

 

[yeti-dog]

3 minutes ago, Stuart said:

A good post. But it polarises the debate again in absolutes. You’ve made the argument: £8m for Brereton or buying no-one. Neither are what we should be doing with our squad as it is.

However, I’d prefer to stick with your opening offer. Brereton, Chapman and Bauer for £10m would be a successful window - when you include Armstrong, Davenport, Rothwell, and (hopefully) Palmer.

I agree - that, or something similar, would end up being a cracking window. 

I'd also add, having seen the quality of opposition so far in the championship, we have nothing to fear ( I appreciate there's going to be much sterner opposition to come!) and may well end up surprising ourselves by the end of the season.

[Stuart]

2 minutes ago, Jim Royle said:

Mmmm

You think that is uncivil?

[Bbrovers2288]

Kieran Clark available on loan, I’d be all over that 

[47er]

We're going round in circles but I agree there is no problem with Venkys spending money! I'm all for it!

So long as we have the funds for the other areas where we need them.

I'm sure we can all agree on that?

[roversinmyblood]

I don’t think that we will pay more than   £5-6M for Brereton. The total with addons May be £8-9M but I suspect the addons will be promotion and senior England appearances based I.e. possible future costs not this season. It is still a bit of a gamble, if we signed him but he will give us NOW speed, skill and no little bullying of the defenders. He is out wide because he runs the channels and stretches the defenders with his speed and power. This would leave space for Dack and Armstrong to exploit. With the players we have he will only get better. Being able to bring on Graham late in a game is a hell of an option to have available. 

I also think that we will sign Chapman and then we would have a team that could frighten the living daylights out of most teams in this division. 

[Paul Mani]

49 minutes ago, 47er said:

Rather personal that post eh? No need for it.

Ok mate ??

[Paul Mani]

4 minutes ago, 47er said:

We're going round in circles but I agree there is no problem with Venkys spending money! I'm all for it!

So long as we have the funds for the other areas where we need them.

I'm sure we can all agree on that?

Yes. Exactly! ??

[Paul Mani]

17 minutes ago, Stuart said:

You think that is uncivil?

Yes Stuart. It was disingenuous and rude to the members you were referring to. But you knew that anyway...

[Stuart]

Just now, Paul Mani said:

Yes Stuart. It was disingenuous and rude to the members you were referring to. But you knew that anyway...

I didn’t name anyone. If you saw yourself in that comment then maybe have a think why.

 

[Paul Mani]

1 hour ago, Stuart said:

Sounds like you have an inferiority complex pal. Your problem not mine.

hmmmm

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

1 hour ago, Neal said:

Got to say I'm a bit uneasy about this Brereton one too. I'm more than happy to see us have some ambition but I think we could spend it better, though I'd love to be proven wrong. 

 

Still very much want to see Chapman back here, I just think he'd end up being excellent value for money. 

I'm scratching my head over Chapman.  If we are talking £8 mil for this 19 year old then surely anything under £1.5 mil for Chapman is a bargain.  Got  pace, can play either wing and pretty certain he could play the 10 role.  Seems the perfect player to recruit for what we are trying to do.  Injury risks potentially but just seems a strange player to completely ignore.