Loan Window

[islander200]

12 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

A lot of people talking about a potential for making money when we sale a player we may sign. Surely the last thing you should be thinking about when signing a player is we may be able to sale him and make a few million in a couple of years.

It would make it more likely that the owners would provide more funding if we made a nice profit on one or two.

Every player has his price and let's be fair about where we are in the food chain and I don't have a problem with us being a trading club, selling someone for a healthy profit and reinvesting a nice  bit to go again.IWe may have to go down the route anyway to keep within FFP.

 I don't think any one is saying they are looking forward to making a profit on any new signings but they are being practical, if Brereton signs and a couple of seasons down the line we make profit it will mean he has performed well for us.

[tomphil]

21 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

A lot of people talking about a potential for making money when we sale a player we may sign. Surely the last thing you should be thinking about when signing a player is we may be able to sale him and make a few million in a couple of years.

Seems they might be willing to push the boat out for those types but I wonder if he went and said I want to sign this proven 28 year old centre back for 3 million, he'll probably not increase in value but he'll serve the club well for 3 or 4 years and be a cornerstone to build a team on.

Would that get sanctioned ?

[Boroblue]

On the subject of Brereton and the negotiations. I think we can all agree that this is a live one and due to its protracted length all sides involved want a deal to be made. Do Forest want to sell yes. Will the player come yes. I feel that we are reaching the end game with this one there’s only so much you can ask for and only so much ground that can be given. Will it happen my guess is yes because in reality all parties want it and it’s not become a bidding war which I think is what forest where waiting for.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, islander200 said:

Sims from Southampton has joined Reading on loan for the season.Good signing 

Very good signing. Just our luck we play them on Wednesday.

[blueboy3333]

2 hours ago, Ewood Ace said:

A lot of people talking about a potential for making money when we sale a player we may sign. Surely the last thing you should be thinking about when signing a player is we may be able to sale him and make a few million in a couple of years.

Mowbray in today's LT. That's exactly what he's thinking of and he's right:-

“More Bradley Dacks is what I’m trying to say. They become the currency of your football club and the owners understand that. You add players of the right quality and they only accrue value, and at the right age. You sign them for X and you sell them for X times 10 potentially somewhere down the line and then you invest that and get a few more. Before you know it you have a team full of good players and then the expectation is to get out of this division. At the moment we’re trying to build a club and compete in the league and every team we play against.”

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/16585545.its-very-frustrating-but-rovers-creeping-closer-to-a-signing/?ref=mac

Edited August 20, 2018 by blueboy3333

[JacknOry]

The key is being able to 'reinvest' from sales which is where we have been let down before. They have done the whole buying young, potential and selling them off for profits before but stopped dead at the next part of the plan which was to reinvest that money on more. 

[blueboy3333]

2 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

The key is being able to 'reinvest' from sales which is where we have been let down before. They have done the whole buying young, potential and selling them off for profits before but stopped dead at the next part of the plan which was to reinvest that money on more. 

Agreed, but I think Mowbray is trying to get across that the owners 'understand' that they need to follow the plan to the end. 

[JHRover]

10 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

The key is being able to 'reinvest' from sales which is where we have been let down before. They have done the whole buying young, potential and selling them off for profits before but stopped dead at the next part of the plan which was to reinvest that money on more. 

Absolutely. As a Championship club we will always be at risk of losing our best players to clubs in a higher division. That's life and the only way to avoid that is to get promoted. 

I also think it is the only way the manager will ever be able to coax any serious money out of the owners if he can put forward a business plan behind it on the basis that the investment now will grow massively in value over several years. Again its perfectly sensible and reasonable to operate on those lines.

The plan has fallen down and is now treated with cynicism by some because the last time we had an excellent crop of players they were sold too quickly, mainly to league rivals, with no reinvestment. 

By all means sell one of them to a Premier League club for mega money when the player wants to go and it suits everyone to do the deal, and then reinvest the proceeds into strengthening and repeating the process. But if the plan is to sell them all off en masse in the space of a couple of windows to anyone offering reasonable cash and then refuse any reinvestment beyond a few loans and frees then the whole cycle of decline starts again.

Lets hope they've got the message and they understand it. 

[Tugay's Right Foot]

Are we going to have a countdown timer shortly? Not too long before it's one week prior to loan window deadline. Things have been dragging out quite abit..?

[chaddyrovers]

Mowbray loan window update

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/16587702.rovers-need-strength-in-numbers-before-loan-deadline-mowbray/

[Paul Mani]

7 hours ago, Boroblue said:

On the subject of Brereton and the negotiations. I think we can all agree that this is a live one and due to its protracted length all sides involved want a deal to be made. Do Forest want to sell yes. Will the player come yes. I feel that we are reaching the end game with this one there’s only so much you can ask for and only so much ground that can be given. Will it happen my guess is yes because in reality all parties want it and it’s not become a bidding war which I think is what forest where waiting for.

Great post. Very logical. I’d add further weight to your theory by saying the fact Forest aren’t including him in any first team or U23 squads speaks volumes too. Looks like all three parties want the deal.

Everyone is just trying to get the best deal.

[Paul Mani]

11 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Mowbray loan window update

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/16587702.rovers-need-strength-in-numbers-before-loan-deadline-mowbray/

Mowbray is top class imo. The information he’s giving to fans in these types of public interviews is unlike any manager / football person I know.

Theres lots of noise and misinterpretation of situations on here. It’s understandable as we, as fans want to understand what is happening. Imo you’ll never get a closer look at how football thinks than this guy. His last two interviews ‘Dack being the currency of the club’ etc as well as his candid walk through of ongoing transfers is top stuff.

If you read and understand him it helps to answer a lot of questions that are raised on here...like:

Why pay £8m for Ben Brereton?

Why are Venkys suddenly bankrolling us again?

What level of quality are we actually targeting?

Do we have a precise plan of exactly who we want?

Are we prepared to pay over the odds?

 The list of fans questions he’s answering is lengthy. I can’t think of another manager who does it so well without releasing personal information. Very classy.

[JBiz]

46 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

Mowbray is top class imo. The information he’s giving to fans in these types of public interviews is unlike any manager / football person I know.

Theres lots of noise and misinterpretation of situations on here. It’s understandable as we, as fans want to understand what is happening. Imo you’ll never get a closer look at how football thinks than this guy. His last two interviews ‘Dack being the currency of the club’ etc as well as his candid walk through of ongoing transfers is top stuff.

If you read and understand him it helps to answer a lot of questions that are raised on here...like:

Why pay £8m for Ben Brereton?

Why are Venkys suddenly bankrolling us again?

What level of quality are we actually targeting?

Do we have a precise plan of exactly who we want?

Are we prepared to pay over the odds?

 The list of fans questions he’s answering is lengthy. I can’t think of another manager who does it so well without releasing personal information. Very classy.

Actions always speak louder than words, but when he’s already delivered probably the most important promotion of the previous 40 years, and signed one of the most exciting players we’ve seen for some time for peanuts, directly following probably our worst prolonged period in the same amount time - it’s hard not to get excited when he is saying exactly the right things.

I accept that others above can feel that the owners can/will change direction at any point, however I think currently; the club is operating more sensibly in terms of outgoings/ingoings. When we sold some of the exciting players Bowyer and co recruited, or the youth products like Hanley - it was in the midst, or directly following the paying off of multiple managers, players and in a time when we had players earning twice what they are now! 

[RV Blue]

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Mowbray loan window update

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/16587702.rovers-need-strength-in-numbers-before-loan-deadline-mowbray/

He he’s confident with one and not so confident with two others. From what he says I’m assuming Bauer is one that he’s looking at moving on from could the other be Freeman or Brereton? From what Nixon said on Sunday (I think he’s got half decent connections at Forrest) we were just negotiating the add ons, does that mean that we’re close with Brereton?

[neophox]

Dont think we will pay £8m for Brereton. Think £5m. Maybe it may one day reach that sum with addons, promotions etc...never we would pay £8m.

[Paul Mani]

10 minutes ago, RV Blue said:

He he’s confident with one and not so confident with two others. From what he says I’m assuming Bauer is one that he’s looking at moving on from could the other be Freeman or Brereton? From what Nixon said on Sunday (I think he’s got half decent connections at Forrest) we were just negotiating the add ons, does that mean that we’re close with Brereton?

I think Brereton is the one he fancies to be done by the weekend and he’s firing a shot across the bows of the other two to say if you don’t sort yourself out you’ll end up with nothing...

Based purely on reports all summer, I think the other two are Freeman and Bauer. Bauer in particular has to be a shoe in. The guys saying he won’t sign another contract. My guess is we’re offering £500k loan fee and £500k at Christmas to take him now. Which is half what they wanted. Freeman is one where it looks like the club and player were happy to do it but the manager put his foot down. The 6-1 defeat on Saturday has possibly weakened his position of strength resulting in the deal becoming possible...just a thought ?

[OJRovers]

Sounds like maybe 2 from Premier League clubs, young players.Any names?

[47er]

Could still be Chapman?

[blueboy3333]

Mogga from todays LT - “The clarification for some clubs I think has to be whether loans with a view to permanent are actually binding. So you can sign someone with the intention of buying them in January but how binding is that intention? That’s the decision someone needs to clear up I think. I think the EFL will look at it, the Premier League as well, to see what happens"

So if Brereton or whoever comes on loan and smashes them in left right and centre there is no contractual obligation to sell (or buy) even if a price has been agreed? Not sure why the transfer is dragging on if true. It's can only ever be a loan.

 

[JHRover]

Seems a bit late in the day to be realising that a deal might not be possible and that we might need to look elsewhere. Also notice that the number 2 is now creeping in. First it was 4 or 5, then 4, then 3 soon, now it's hopefully 2-3 or 3-4 but only 1 any time soon with others later.

Hope I'm wrong but I'm seeing a continuing backtracking from the optimism of early summer and bold talk about 5 more signings a couple of weeks ago to now preparing us for the possibility of only a couple.

[Paul Mani]

1 hour ago, Biz said:

Actions always speak louder than words, but when he’s already delivered probably the most important promotion of the previous 40 years, and signed one of the most exciting players we’ve seen for some time for peanuts, directly following probably our worst prolonged period in the same amount time - it’s hard not to get excited when he is saying exactly the right things.

I accept that others above can feel that the owners can/will change direction at any point, however I think currently; the club is operating more sensibly in terms of outgoings/ingoings. When we sold some of the exciting players Bowyer and co recruited, or the youth products like Hanley - it was in the midst, or directly following the paying off of multiple managers, players and in a time when we had players earning twice what they are now! 

Of course they do. I’m not suggesting that we’ll do any of the deals muted. Just that from the articulate words of the manager it won’t be for the lack of trying. There is a plan and backing from the owners it would seem.

Regardless of what we achieve (and I am ultra ambitious), surely we have a lot to feel positive with the current management and playing structure. In particular what they have been able to do to engage our infamous owners. At times we almost sound / feel like a ‘proper’ club again! ?

[blueboy3333]

Just now, JHRover said:

Seems a bit late in the day to be realising that a deal might not be possible and that we might need to look elsewhere. Also notice that the number 2 is now creeping in. First it was 4 or 5, then 4, then 3 soon, now it's hopefully 2-3 or 3-4 but only 1 any time soon with others later.

Hope I'm wrong but I'm seeing a continuing backtracking from the optimism of early summer and bold talk about 5 more signings a couple of weeks ago to now preparing us for the possibility of only a couple.

He mentions four again to be fair in the LT article linked earlier from today. Mowbray thinks out loud so four is probably his intention. Problem with that is he sets himself up to fail. 

[Paul Mani]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

Mogga from todays LT - “The clarification for some clubs I think has to be whether loans with a view to permanent are actually binding. So you can sign someone with the intention of buying them in January but how binding is that intention? That’s the decision someone needs to clear up I think. I think the EFL will look at it, the Premier League as well, to see what happens"

So if Brereton or whoever comes on loan and smashes them in left right and centre there is no contractual obligation to sell (or buy) even if a price has been agreed? Not sure why the transfer is dragging on if true. It's can only ever be a loan.

 

That was a really interesting point. I read it the other way though. Because it’s the buying club who has the intention. Therefore, are we trying to argue that if we don’t like what we see, then we don’t have to excercise our intention to buy? Very prudent If so...

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Paul Mani said:

That was a really interesting point. I read it the other way though. Because it’s the buying club who has the intention. Therefore, are we trying to argue that if we don’t like what we see, then we don’t have to excercise our intention to buy? Very prudent If so...

It's not an either/or. He is saying the contract is non-binding regardless of who is intending to buy or sell. That's the point. 

[Paul Mani]

25 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

It's not an either/or. He is saying the contract is non-binding regardless of who is intending to buy or sell. That's the point. 

He’s actually discussing a process of clarification from ‘some’ clubs interpretation of ‘intention to buy’. The intention to buy is formed by the buyer (us in this case) which is why I suggested that it may be us who are negotiating hard here. It could be either side in all honesty. Fantastic insight either way.