Ben Brereton Diaz

[Stuart]

Some folk seem to spend more of their time commenting about their disdain for the opinions of other fans than on the football!

[OJRovers]

I'm hoping he will come good in time. Its just a shame he hasn't made an immediate impact like Reed has or like when we first got Armstrong on loan last season, both young players too.

[perthblue02]

2 hours ago, Biz said:

 

Plus 7m (highly doubt it’s that before clauses being met) is the equivalent of 50k in 1992, so I’m not sure what relevance that is?

 

More like 3.5 million in inflation terms, Even taking into account the current silly money world of football you would be looking at  least 800k-  1 million equivalent in 1992, so a Duncan Shearer . Fingers crossed this one works out a bit better

Edited October 8, 2018 by perthblue02

[Mercer]

For clarity, I m not comparing him directly with Shearer.

What I have said is a player with a big price tag comes with big expectations from the fans.  Shearer clearly didn't disappoint and looked every inch the part from game one.

Whether the deal for Brereton is 3, 4, 5, 6 or £7million, it's still huge money for Rovers in present day circumstances and in my view, the fans are justified in expecting much more from Brereton from what we've seen so far.  To be honest, if we'd have signed the lad on a free, you'd still be scratching your head with what we've seen so far.

 

[Ozz]

How anyone can make a judgement on him based on his performances at Rovers so far baffles me. He's hardly touched the ball in few minutes he's had. 

 

[Mercer]

3 minutes ago, Ozz said:

How anyone can make a judgement on him based on his performances at Rovers so far baffles me. He's hardly touched the ball in few minutes he's had. 

 

Your argument in itself is baffling.

Why oh why is our multi million pound striker not starting on a regular basis?  If he's no better than 30 odd year old Graham or whoever else we have, why the feck commit a small fortune on the lad when we so obviously need strengthening in other areas!?

[jim mk2]

It's a fair point - we'd be alot stronger and likely be in better league position now if we'd signed a couple of big solid centre backs for the price we paid for Brereton.

Fans need to lay off him though. The lad's hardly been in the club for a few weeks. 

 

[roversfan99]

10 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Your argument in itself is baffling.

Why oh why is our multi million pound striker not starting on a regular basis?  If he's no better than 30 odd year old Graham or whoever else we have, why the feck commit a small fortune on the lad when we so obviously need strengthening in other areas!?

The reason that Danny Graham is still our number 1 striker is because of Danny Graham to be fair. Hes been our best player this season.

4 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

It's a fair point - we'd be alot stronger and likely be in better league position now if we'd signed a couple of big solid centre backs for the price we paid for Brereton.

Fans need to lay off him though. The lad's hardly been in the club for a few weeks. 

 

Lay off him? I think I miss all of this abuse he receives. 

[philipl]

3 hours ago, Mercer said:

Some of us will have seen and remember Shearer's Rovers' debut at Palace in 1992.  A 21 year old signed for a British record transfer fee of £3million+ in 1992.  Like a duck to water, there was never, ever, any doubt about the lad's ability - two superb debut goals and the rest is history.

For big money, particularly now in Rovers' circumstances, you expect big things immediately.

I just can't see what the lad offers or indeed any potential.

Young players who excite like Sessegnon, Alex-Arnold, Woodburn, Ampadu and Rice stand out a country mile and have already shown quality and maturity at the highest levels.  I am not saying Brereton is in the same league but I don't think he offers even  a tenth of what these lads do.  Sadly, I think we've signed a dud.

Shearer was a world record fee or close to it at the time.

So I'd agree with you if Brereton had cost £70m. You'd certainly be paying around the £50m mark at least for each of the four players you named.

Frankly your comparison has a nought missing from its logic.

If Ben becomes only an averagely good Championship striker by the time he's 21, Rovers would get their money back on him.  

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, perthblue02 said:

More like 3.5 million in inflation terms, Even taking into account the current silly money world of football you would be looking at  least 800k-  1 million equivalent in 1992, so a Duncan Shearer . Fingers crossed this one works out a bit better

Duncan Shearer was an experienced and proven goal scorer at the level we were playing at that time.

[perthblue02]

2 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Duncan Shearer was an experienced and proven goal scorer at the level we were playing at that time.

Oh yeah I know that, I was thinking more of the  price range equivalent in 1992, which Duncan Shearers fee fitted.

[Ozz]

48 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Your argument in itself is baffling.

Why oh why is our multi million pound striker not starting on a regular basis?  If he's no better than 30 odd year old Graham or whoever else we have, why the feck commit a small fortune on the lad when we so obviously need strengthening in other areas!?

My ''argument' is solely based on footballing abilities. 

His time on the pitch at Rovers is not enough to judge him on. 

You'd have to ask the guy who picks the team the second part of your post.

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

21 minutes ago, perthblue02 said:

Oh yeah I know that, I was thinking more of the  price range equivalent in 1992, which Duncan Shearers fee fitted.

There was a theory that one of the reasons we signed him to weaken Swindon's efforts.

[Husky]

If an unproven Brereton is worth £7milllion then surely a Dack is worth  £50million . . .and should the time come (as it inevitably will) we shouldn't be selling for any less.

[DE.]

Ideally with younger players with potential at this level you buy them for a fairly small outright fee with the potential for it to rise with promotion/goal add ons or large sell-on clauses. It's quite rare for a club in our financial position to commit a significant amount for a youngster, and if we do then the general expectation is that he'll be ready to come in and have an immediate impact. Nothing particularly controversial there, I'd have thought? 

We don't know specifically how the Brereton deal is structured but I'm not convinced Forest would have sold him for peanuts with the hope of a big payoff further down the road. I have to assume they're guaranteed a decent sum no matter what - if not, they'd have surely loaned him out with the hope of him either evolving into a better player for their own use or to sell at a large price to a cash-rich Championship club or a PL club looking for the next big young talent. The only reason to sell outright to us would logically be because we were offering the type of money that couldn't really be turned down for a player who may or may not have what it takes to get to a much higher level. 

[47er]

4 hours ago, Biz said:

Do you not think a more confident lad puts that header inside the post instead of 5 metres wide at home to sheff united? Think it was 0-1 at the time like, and whilst he played a couple of wayward passes and looked a bit raw overall, that could’ve changed the game + our perception of him.

He did everything right but just caught too much of the ball, good run, well timed jump etc, there’s definitely more to work with than you seem to be suggesting!

“The fee is for the Nottingham fans...” to be honest that’s a quote from someone here I agree with. I’d guess it’s set up to be sensible, appearance and promotion based. I’d also guess that we’ve probably more wood for the fire going off TM’s suggestions about being in the mix come Christmas.

It’s not like you to be sensationalist is it Merc!

Attacking Mercer won't make Brereton play any better! The lad won't be reading this (if he's any sense) and he hasn't been the subject of crowd abuse when he's played. That would harm his confidence and would be poor form.

Its not just about him and waiting to see if/when he comes good. Its also about what players we might have got if we hadn't signed him.

Like strengthening that defence.without late fade-outs we would be in the 6 now. If we just mark time in the Championship we will lose Dack. 

Its an odd transfer alright in our situation, the Academy is for long-term development.

[47er]

3 hours ago, Ozz said:

How anyone can make a judgement on him based on his performances at Rovers so far baffles me. He's hardly touched the ball in few minutes he's had. 

 

That's because he's not considered ready to start, That's a comment in itself isn't it?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

13 minutes ago, 47er said:

That's because he's not considered ready to start, That's a comment in itself isn't it?

If you'd have told me in May that we would be signing a striker  for £6 million + but he'd be starting games on the bench I would have thought you were crazy.

[darrenrover]

7 hours ago, Mercer said:

Some of us will have seen and remember Shearer's Rovers' debut at Palace in 1992.  A 21 year old signed for a British record transfer fee of £3million+ in 1992.  Like a duck to water, there was never, ever, any doubt about the lad's ability - two superb debut goals and the rest is history.

For big money, particularly now in Rovers' circumstances, you expect big things immediately.

I just can't see what the lad offers or indeed any potential.

Young players who excite like Sessegnon, Alex-Arnold, Woodburn, Ampadu and Rice stand out a country mile and have already shown quality and maturity at the highest levels.  I am not saying Brereton is in the same league but I don't think he offers even  a tenth of what these lads do.  Sadly, I think we've signed a dud.

Thank f**k you said that, the lad's clearly going to be one hell of a centre forward!

COYB!!

[Husky]

13 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

If you'd have told me in May that we would be signing a striker  for £6 million + but he'd be starting games on the bench I would have thought you were crazy.

Yes. You'd certainly think we'd have a team to walk top six and probably favourites for top 2.

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 hour ago, Husky said:

Yes. You'd certainly think we'd have a team to walk top six and probably favourites for top 2.

What?? Do you not realise how much other teams have spent? 

[Red]

Hey fellas (and ladies).  Just came long to see how Brereton as settled.  Doesn't seem like he's had much impact (or chance to have much impact) thus far.

I know the fee is a lot.  Our local reporter is adamant it's £7m guaranteed, with add-ons/sell-on in addition to that.

However, you have signed potential.  He is a very talented lad, he can impact games already at 19, but he isn't going to score 20 goals for you just yet.  He is very much still learning the game and what his best game is against men.  

His best games for Forest were often against teams who play an open style and came at us, which allowed him to pick the ball up on the half way and run at the opposition and into the space they leave behind.  I'd say your stellar home form over the past year or so has probably caused teams to sit deeper and take space away.

He definitely is best as a no.9 rather than a winger.  He runs into channels very well and works centre-backs hard from this position.  When starting out wide I think he sometimes gets a bit lost as to where he should be going.  He's much better starting as a no.9 and then pulling into channels.

His hold up play definitely needs a lot of attention, he often thinks about the opposition player more than he does the ball and gets ushered off or resorts to diving.  I think that's an age/experience thing, because he is not a little weakling.

Ultimately, if you get him the ball so he can turn and run at people, he causes nightmares, particularly for the less mobile centre-backs when he drags them out of shape.  I think if you give time some time with Dack looking to play him in, you'll see what he can bring to the table.

I know it's a lot of money for someone with potential rather than being the finished article, that's the way football seems to be now days.  You pay for what someone might be, as opposed to what they already are.  But don't write him off this early.  There is a very good striker in there who can impact games and cut through oppositions defences like a knife through butter. 

He definitely needs the opportunity to do it though at no.9.  Not as a winger.

 

 

[JBiz]

@Red what are your thoughts on selling him? From a Forest fans perspective.

[OJRovers]

Good insight thanks. Unfortunately I can’t remember any games where Mowbray has played a proper number 9 position in his formations since he joined. What was the full formation when he did best at NF? 4-4-2 with wingers?

[Red]

Disappointment.

I think most Forest fans were disappointed he was being sold.  We are very proud of our academy and the players that have come through.  We love seeing players graduate to the first team and have an impact.  (We actually picked Brereton up at 16 after his release from Stoke, but the attachment is still there).

We've also seen a lot get sold earlier than we like.  Often for big fees, but usually it's just a bit too early. (See Ollie Burke - who was winning us games single handedly, now barely makes WBA's bench).

With Brereton I think most, if not all saw not only potential, but his ability to already impact games.  That's very handy for someone who was 18 and then not long turned 19 as a striker in probably the most competitive league in Europe.

He did frustrate, largely over what I mentioned above with his 1-1 battles with defenders where he'd get too preoccupied with his marker over winning the ball.  But that's to be expected with a young lad.  He had a lot of pressure on his shoulders last season.  Our no.9 Murphy got injured and he was forced to lead the line for a long time by himself.  That was probably too much responsibility, too soon.

We were really excited at the prospect of him coming off the bench with the attacking midfielders we have now who love to play neat football and play through-balls, and with Brereton's desire to simply see space and attack it, I though he'd probably have a good season with 10+ goals.  However Karanka has been given the objective to achieve promotion over the next two seasons, so development has obviously taken a back burner, so we signed Grabban, still have Murphy, also have Soudani and are soon to sign Karim Ansarifard.

For what it's worth, Karanka did not want Brereton to go.  He just couldn't guarantee him a spot.  This is the strongest squad we have had in years, if not a couple of decades.  We often elave out some very talented players and I think Brereton saw that and decided he needed to go somewhere and be involved every week.  His changed his agent not too long before he left and there's talk it was agent designed. 

There's no hard feelings though, I like the look of your squad and the type of players you're putting together, I think if patience is shown, Brereton could become a successful and key part of it.

I don't think you've signed someone who is going to be a 20 goal scorer right now.  But he's someone who can impact games already at his tender age, and will score goals/win penalties and also turn games a bit with his direct running which forces teams back a bit.