Ben Brereton Diaz

[Red]

4 minutes ago, OJRovers said:

Good insight thanks. Unfortunately I can’t remember any games where Mowbray has played a proper number 9 position in his formations since he joined. What was the full formation when he did best at NF? 4-4-2 with wingers?

We've played 4-2-3-1 the past few seasons really.  So he's been a lone no.9.  

I think he would be very effective in a 2 also though, where he'd be able to use someone else to work off and as a foil to move into space.

[Bigdoggsteel]

12 minutes ago, Red said:

Hey fellas (and ladies).  Just came long to see how Brereton as settled.  Doesn't seem like he's had much impact (or chance to have much impact) thus far.

I know the fee is a lot.  Our local reporter is adamant it's £7m guaranteed, with add-ons/sell-on in addition to that.

However, you have signed potential.  He is a very talented lad, he can impact games already at 19, but he isn't going to score 20 goals for you just yet.  He is very much still learning the game and what his best game is against men.  

His best games for Forest were often against teams who play an open style and came at us, which allowed him to pick the ball up on the half way and run at the opposition and into the space they leave behind.  I'd say your stellar home form over the past year or so has probably caused teams to sit deeper and take space away.

He definitely is best as a no.9 rather than a winger.  He runs into channels very well and works centre-backs hard from this position.  When starting out wide I think he sometimes gets a bit lost as to where he should be going.  He's much better starting as a no.9 and then pulling into channels.

His hold up play definitely needs a lot of attention, he often thinks about the opposition player more than he does the ball and gets ushered off or resorts to diving.  I think that's an age/experience thing, because he is not a little weakling.

Ultimately, if you get him the ball so he can turn and run at people, he causes nightmares, particularly for the less mobile centre-backs when he drags them out of shape.  I think if you give time some time with Dack looking to play him in, you'll see what he can bring to the table.

I know it's a lot of money for someone with potential rather than being the finished article, that's the way football seems to be now days.  You pay for what someone might be, as opposed to what they already are.  But don't write him off this early.  There is a very good striker in there who can impact games and cut through oppositions defences like a knife through butter. 

He definitely needs the opportunity to do it though at no.9.  Not as a winger.

 

 

Thanks Ben. 

Only joking. Cheers for that. See the problem is the way we currently play requires our striker to hold the ball up really well. Your description of his strengths would suggest he is quick, would that be correct? 

The fact is he is 19 and will take time to settle. Our fans need to remember that 

[Red]

Strangely, I wouldn't say he is lightening fast in a direct sprint.  But he moves as quickly with the ball as he does without it.  So when he runs at people with the ball, he can be a nightmare.

Also, although he is right footed, he will happily cut inside onto his left foot, another reason why he is difficult to stop when running with the ball in full motion.  See his goal Vs QPR last season (in a 2-5 win I think) for an example of this.

[Bigdoggsteel]

No, he hasn't looked super quick.

He is working under a great manager here, so if he knuckles down there is no reason he can't fulfill the potential it sounds like he has 

[Husky]

On 09/10/2018 at 14:48, Bigdoggsteel said:

What?? Do you not realise how much other teams have spent? 

Course I do. But teams that shell out £7 million for a reserve/youth player must be amongst the favourites for the title. Unless something is seriously wrong . . .

[blueboy3333]

1 hour ago, Red said:

Hey fellas (and ladies).  Just came long to see how Brereton as settled.  Doesn't seem like he's had much impact (or chance to have much impact) thus far.

I know the fee is a lot.  Our local reporter is adamant it's £7m guaranteed, with add-ons/sell-on in addition to that.

However, you have signed potential.  He is a very talented lad, he can impact games already at 19, but he isn't going to score 20 goals for you just yet.  He is very much still learning the game and what his best game is against men.  

His best games for Forest were often against teams who play an open style and came at us, which allowed him to pick the ball up on the half way and run at the opposition and into the space they leave behind.  I'd say your stellar home form over the past year or so has probably caused teams to sit deeper and take space away.

He definitely is best as a no.9 rather than a winger.  He runs into channels very well and works centre-backs hard from this position.  When starting out wide I think he sometimes gets a bit lost as to where he should be going.  He's much better starting as a no.9 and then pulling into channels.

His hold up play definitely needs a lot of attention, he often thinks about the opposition player more than he does the ball and gets ushered off or resorts to diving.  I think that's an age/experience thing, because he is not a little weakling.

Ultimately, if you get him the ball so he can turn and run at people, he causes nightmares, particularly for the less mobile centre-backs when he drags them out of shape.  I think if you give time some time with Dack looking to play him in, you'll see what he can bring to the table.

I know it's a lot of money for someone with potential rather than being the finished article, that's the way football seems to be now days.  You pay for what someone might be, as opposed to what they already are.  But don't write him off this early.  There is a very good striker in there who can impact games and cut through oppositions defences like a knife through butter. 

He definitely needs the opportunity to do it though at no.9.  Not as a winger.

 

 

Thanks Ben?

On a serious note he didn't look comfortable out wide, but he did look to show for the ball when he came on up front against Sheff Utd. He also missed a good headed chance but showed good movement to get there ahead of his marker.  I hope at some point Mowbray gives him a full game up front. I base this on not much at all but he looks like he's a little short on confidence but will thrive when he plays regularly for a manager who believes in him. 

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

I noticed in the highlight video that was on here he didn't head the ball once. That's a bit unusual for such a tall guy. How do Forest fans rate his heading ability ?

[chaddyrovers]

Thanks @Red for the Brereton info. But I did say he is better with the ball into feet and runs the channels. 

I think 7 million pounds is a bargain as long as Mowbray can get the best out of him. 

For me, he is lacking match fitness and confidence. 

[roversfan99]

Thanks @Red for your very in depth and promising posts.

He has only had cameos in his time here, due to the superb form of Danny Graham. Not only is Graham good in his own right but he is perfect to get the best out of Dack. When Brereton did play wide he looked like a fish out of water so that tallies up. He will have to wait for a regular place in his natural position I would imagine.

What you say about him running with the ball is very encouraging, it has not been on show yet, hes looked a bit sluggish but mainly weve assumed thats a lack of fitness. I only recall seeing him once, when he ran Arsenals second string ragged and probably accelerated Mertesackers retirement.

Unfortunately I have seen him dive and throw himself over quite a few times already, hopefully he will learn from that side of the game as its not good to see and he isnt even convincing doing it!

Our fans will give him time but there is a lot of intrigue about a player who cost so much money relative to our recent spending power. His cameos have been ineffective, however I think the brunt of the mystique around him is about us spending so much on a player who is not ready to come straight into the team, and how else that could have been spent.

[OJRovers]

Why is he not match fit (genuine question)? Has he been injured?

[roversfan99]

1 minute ago, OJRovers said:

Why is he not match fit (genuine question)? Has he been injured?

I think he played for England U19s (not 100% if thats the right age group) and returned back late from pre season. He also didnt make any Forest squads before he came.

[DE.]

Nice to get some in depth analysis on Brereton. It sounds like we're going to need to change the way we play to get the best out of him though. I've said before that I think Mowbray's vision for our style of play is very different to what we're currently seeing, and signing players like Brereton seems to lend itself to that train of thought. We'll need a few more signings to bring that to fruition, though, so it'll be interesting to see if we're active in January. There's still a lot of work to do to build the type of team that a player like Brereton can thrive in, imo.

[JacknOry]

4 hours ago, Red said:

Hey fellas (and ladies).  Just came long to see how Brereton as settled.  Doesn't seem like he's had much impact (or chance to have much impact) thus far.

I know the fee is a lot.  Our local reporter is adamant it's £7m guaranteed, with add-ons/sell-on in addition to that.

However, you have signed potential.  He is a very talented lad, he can impact games already at 19, but he isn't going to score 20 goals for you just yet.  He is very much still learning the game and what his best game is against men.  

His best games for Forest were often against teams who play an open style and came at us, which allowed him to pick the ball up on the half way and run at the opposition and into the space they leave behind.  I'd say your stellar home form over the past year or so has probably caused teams to sit deeper and take space away.

He definitely is best as a no.9 rather than a winger.  He runs into channels very well and works centre-backs hard from this position.  When starting out wide I think he sometimes gets a bit lost as to where he should be going.  He's much better starting as a no.9 and then pulling into channels.

His hold up play definitely needs a lot of attention, he often thinks about the opposition player more than he does the ball and gets ushered off or resorts to diving.  I think that's an age/experience thing, because he is not a little weakling.

Ultimately, if you get him the ball so he can turn and run at people, he causes nightmares, particularly for the less mobile centre-backs when he drags them out of shape.  I think if you give time some time with Dack looking to play him in, you'll see what he can bring to the table.

I know it's a lot of money for someone with potential rather than being the finished article, that's the way football seems to be now days.  You pay for what someone might be, as opposed to what they already are.  But don't write him off this early.  There is a very good striker in there who can impact games and cut through oppositions defences like a knife through butter. 

He definitely needs the opportunity to do it though at no.9.  Not as a winger.

 

 

Thanks for coming here and making that post - very insightful.

I think the main issue is that under Venkies we have rarely spent other than our first season out of the prem when it was on has beens and wrong-uns. Its a big spend on a an obviously talented young lad when some feel we could have spent that money better on players that could have directly improved the starting eleven right now.

We know that the fans at Forest rated him so that is something that we are clinging on to. He has obvioulsy only played a bit part so far an not in the position you have said, so I for one will not be making any judgement as of yet. At the end of the day, Danny Graham in my opinion is probably the best at what he does in this division so he wont be slotting in there just yet. I assume he is one for the future, albeit an expensive one.

[Mattyblue]

Waggott on Breteton, 

With the tweaking of the window, it had to be a loan deal, but we are looking in January to make that permanent.”

 

Just looking to?

 

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/16984616.rovers-have-big-belief-in-brereton-says-ceo-waggott/?ref=mac

Edited October 16, 2018 by Mattyblue

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

Waggott on Breteton, 

With the tweaking of the window, it had to be a loan deal, but we are looking in January to make that permanent.”

 

Just looking to?

 

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/16984616.rovers-have-big-belief-in-brereton-says-ceo-waggott/?ref=mac

The deal is agreed. Terms of deal was pretty simple. Miss spoke there. 

[Stuart]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

The deal is agreed. Terms of deal was pretty simple. Miss spoke there. 

How could you possibly know this?

[Mattyblue]

Miss-spoke. I like it.

You can get yourself a job as a politician’s spin doctor.

[JHRover]

I agree. People reading far too much into this if they believe that Rovers have the option to make it permanent but aren't obliged to.

Can't see one reason why Forest would ever agree to such an arrangement. Why not just send him on loan and see how he does?

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

3 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

Waggott on Breteton, 

With the tweaking of the window, it had to be a loan deal, but we are looking in January to make that permanent.”

 

Just looking to?

 

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/16984616.rovers-have-big-belief-in-brereton-says-ceo-waggott/?ref=mac

Just a turn of phrase. The deal is done. 

[Mattyblue]

Of course, they speak like politicians that often these corporate types that they hedge their language even for done deals.

[Glosrover]

On 12/10/2018 at 17:47, Red said:

Disappointment.

I think most Forest fans were disappointed he was being sold.  We are very proud of our academy and the players that have come through.  We love seeing players graduate to the first team and have an impact.  (We actually picked Brereton up at 16 after his release from Stoke, but the attachment is still there).

We've also seen a lot get sold earlier than we like.  Often for big fees, but usually it's just a bit too early. (See Ollie Burke - who was winning us games single handedly, now barely makes WBA's bench).

 

Now there's a warning to Dack if he fancies that particular move..............

 

but would Burke be a viable makeweight in any deal that might be struck at £20M ish

[JAL]

What a shocker of a performance from Ben Brereton against Sheffield United..... he couldn't control the ball, had no pace, didnt know where to run, hed no strength in his shooting and basically looked like he didn't have a clue. 

Could not believe what I saw after enthusiasticly giving such a warm welcome he was poor and thats putting it mildly.

An older supporter compared him to John Omara from the early seventies.

Edited October 17, 2018 by JAL

[Sparks Rover]

On 16/10/2018 at 11:50, Glosrover said:

Now there's a warning to Dack if he fancies that particular move..............

 

but would Burke be a viable makeweight in any deal that might be struck at £20M ish

I'd have Burke for Dack any day of the week.

[JacknOry]

On 17/10/2018 at 23:53, Sparks Rover said:

I'd have Burke for Dack any day of the week.

Something tells me you dont really rate Dack that much. 

 

[Glosrover]

On 16/10/2018 at 09:23, JHRover said:

I agree. People reading far too much into this if they believe that Rovers have the option to make it permanent but aren't obliged to.

Can't see one reason why Forest would ever agree to such an arrangement. Why not just send him on loan and see how he does?

 

What if the player became disillusioned at not getting a game and turned down the transfer......