Ben Brereton Diaz

[tomphil]

2 hours ago, dingles staying down 4ever said:

I heard that Hodgson wanted Davies as one for the future but was horrified when he found out how much we'd paid. As a result he felt he had to play him regardless of form in a vein hope he'd play himself into form. We all know how successful that was.

Could history now be repeating itself with Brereton and Mowbray playing the parts in the reboot? Maybe Chaddy picking himself upfront would see him as the Nathan Blake replacement?

Despite what the outlay is quoted as  possibly adding up to in total I actually think they went down the safe route with Brereton. Very young, potential, decent deposit then terms spread over years and being so young likely  to be on less than 10 grand pwk initially.  If it works out it's a winner, if he just does average he can still be flogged for 2 or 3 mill which will more or less cover what's been outlayed up to that point and if he flops well it's just another BRFC write off but he can still be a squad man for years or loaned out !!!

Signing a 25 yr old with a bit of championship pedigree would've come with 10/20k pwk three or four year contract as well as a fee or loan fee.

In can see him being loaned back to Forest at some point in the future and that would set tongues a wagging again, quite rightly.

 

[J*B]

I reckon he'll come really good. He only needs 1 season where he scores 15+ league goals and he's suddenly a 20m striker.

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, Stuart said:

“The price for me is really irrelevant. I know it’s not for the bigger picture for the football club but...”

That’s the problem though. £7m IS big money for Rovers, and the rest of us. Unless he finds form soon that’s going to be a bitter pill to swallow. £7m for a prospect is very unwise as a Championship club and it’s looking like it was a huge gamble.

However, the main problem as a fan is that we can see holes on the pitch with square pegs still in round holes. £7m could have gone a long way towards fixing that.

It’s the anti- Jordan Rhodes argument just without the goals.

https://www.football-addict.com/article/blackburn-rovers-fc/tbrfootball/5bd1868ce6094065cc5fcbaf/form-of-blackburn-rovers-man-proving-nottingham-forest-right-to-cash-in

No Stuart, that's your problem with Brereton is the price. 

The price SHOULD NOT be a factor!!!

Isn't there still money available as well? so you can complain about that 7 mil cpould have fix the problem you see but his Mowbray 1st or 2nd choice wasn't available then surely we are better waiting and not spending money on a player Mowbray didn't want. No one knew we had 7 mil pounds to spend on one player so most of the messageboard were surprise and shocked we had. 

 

[K-Hod]

Whether we like it or not, the price will always be a problem when it's the most we've spent for ages, to be fair.

[chaddyrovers]

5 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

That's why it's a puzzle that we didn't sign a Danny Graham MK 2 and went for somebody completely different.

Not many of those type of quality of Graham about. Could you name anyone? 

What wrong with giving Brereton some time to settle in and get use to Mowbray ways and want he demand. 

5 hours ago, OJRovers said:

We pretty much built the current formation to fit Dack in that hole behind the striker.

If we are going to persevere with brereton then Mowbray needs to come up with a formation that works for him, rather than shoehorning him into the current system.

Mowbray has explained why he played Brereton wide and Dack up front cos he wanted 3 players in centre midfield. At least Mowbray is so honest and open about his thinking 

[JHRover]

I think we need to get into the mindset of what Mowbray was able to do with this pot of money that he supposedly had at his disposal. If you listen to his interviews around the time of the Brereton signing it very much sounds to me as though one of the owners suddenly decided they were going to push the boat out by making a 'big' signing. Listening to Mowbray it seems that was potentially a case of 'now or never' and he didn't dare risk leaving it until January when the money might never appear again.

I'm afraid people who seriously believe that Mowbray had a cheque for £7 million burning a hole in his pocket and that he had free reign to go out and spend that however he felt fit on however many players in whichever positions he wanted have probably missed the point.

To begin with Venkys don't do £7 million cash payments. They do smaller payments in instalments. I imagine the deal with Brereton was structured as it was rumoured to be with Jordan Rhodes when suddenly out of the blue came a big wad of cash for one player. That deal was never an £8 million payment, it was multiple smaller payments eventually reaching that figure if certain achievements were reached. So we probably committed to paying half of that figure, spread over time, with more if he performs very well or if Rovers get promoted etc.

Again, I believe that a strict set of criteria had to be followed by Mowbray and co. when deciding who to spend the money on. I doubt the thing would have been authorised had the player in question been older, or on big wages. Indeed I suspect the main reason Mowbray got the money out of them to do it was on the basis he would in time turn Brereton into a star who would be worth more than they paid.

It does irk me a little that people are quick to use the £7 million price tag against Brereton himself, when the lad isn't to blame for his transfer fee and that fee is being blown out of proportion (as most transfer fees are).

Remember, it suits Rovers and Venkys for people to think they've paid £7 million for him, it doesn't really suit Brereton.

Edited October 25, 2018 by JHRover

[Stuart]

14 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

No Stuart, that's your problem with Brereton is the price. 

The price SHOULD NOT be a factor!!!

Isn't there still money available as well? so you can complain about that 7 mil cpould have fix the problem you see but his Mowbray 1st or 2nd choice wasn't available then surely we are better waiting and not spending money on a player Mowbray didn't want. No one knew we had 7 mil pounds to spend on one player so most of the messageboard were surprise and shocked we had. 

 

....and breathe.

The only reason you think spending £7m on Brereton rather than on 2 or 3 decent signings is because we did it.

If we hadn’t signed him because he was £7m you’d have been arguing black and blue that it would have been madness to do so.

Having any kind of debate with you is like...

”I wish it was Friday”

”It’s not Friday it Thursday!!” (sic)

[Bigdoggsteel]

22 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Mowbray has explained why he played Brereton wide and Dack up front cos he wanted 3 players in centre midfield. At least Mowbray is so honest and open about his thinking 

Ya, but that doesn't explain why he won't play Brereton upfront. 

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, JHRover said:

I think we need to get into the mindset of what Mowbray was able to do with this pot of money that he supposedly had at his disposal. If you listen to his interviews around the time of the Brereton signing it very much sounds to me as though one of the owners suddenly decided they were going to push the boat out by making a 'big' signing. Listening to Mowbray it seems that was potentially a case of 'now or never' and he didn't dare risk leaving it until January when the money might never appear again.

I'm afraid people who seriously believe that Mowbray had a cheque for £7 million burning a hole in his pocket and that he had free reign to go out and spend that however he felt fit on however many players in whichever positions he wanted have probably missed the point.

To begin with Venkys don't do £7 million cash payments. They do smaller payments in instalments. I imagine the deal with Brereton was structured as it was rumoured to be with Jordan Rhodes when suddenly out of the blue came a big wad of cash for one player. That deal was never an £8 million payment, it was multiple smaller payments eventually reaching that figure if certain achievements were reached. So we probably committed to paying half of that figure, spread over time, with more if he performs very well or if Rovers get promoted etc.

Again, I believe that a strict set of criteria had to be followed by Mowbray and co. when deciding who to spend the money on. I doubt the thing would have been authorised had the player in question been older, or on big wages. Indeed I suspect the main reason Mowbray got the money out of them to do it was on the basis he would in time turn Brereton into a star who would be worth more than they paid.

It does irk me a little that people are quick to use the £7 million price tag against Brereton himself, when the lad isn't to blame for his transfer fee and that fee is being blown out of proportion (as most transfer fees are).

Remember, it suits Rovers and Venkys for people to think they've paid £7 million for him, it doesn't really suit Brereton.

I think you are way off with your 1st point massively. Mowbray has said that the money was always there all summer, so are you saying was lying to the fans? Look at the 2 links below and what do you think and do you still have the same opinion?

Mowbray said this on the 25th of May "we have the budget to improve the squad" https://www.rovers.co.uk/news/2017/may/we-have-a-budget-to-improve-the-squad/

Also Mowbray said this on 11th of August "Tony Mowbray admits his budget never changed and that deadline day moves for Ben Brereton and Luke Freeman weren’t their only multi-million pound bids made throughout the window. " https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/16413310.they-werent-the-only-bids-rovers-boss-on-the-transfer-window/

Also Mowbray runs a very tight unit behind the scenes and doesn't like bid leaking out and his reaction was there when leaks were happening. 

on your second point, I believe Mowbray runs the footballing side of the club and don't see anyone inference in this. why didn't Mowbray have free reign? 

Most clubs spread the cost of transfer fee over 2 or 3 or 4 years so Rovers wouldn't be any different. 

Look at most of Rovers signings this summer they were mostly young players like Rothwell, Davenport, Palmer(loan), Armstrong, Brereton, Reed(loan). With Rodwell an experience player signing. So its Mowbray wants young, athleticism, young and hard working signings. 

 

[chaddyrovers]

14 minutes ago, Stuart said:

....and breathe.

The only reason you think spending £7m on Brereton rather than on 2 or 3 decent signings is because we did it.

If we hadn’t signed him because he was £7m you’d have been arguing black and blue that it would have been madness to do so.

Having any kind of debate with you is like...

”I wish it was Friday”

”It’s not Friday it Thursday!!” (sic)

we still had money left over as my link in previous post shows and we had money to spend. 

If you don't want to debate then don't reply Stuart instead of being arrogant and better than me like you do. If you want to debate then lets do so and been respectful of each other Stuart. I don't hate you and like I have said I enjoy your posts when you aren't be arrogant even tho I might not always agree with you

2 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Ya, but that doesn't explain why he won't play Brereton upfront. 

We know why he hasn't played there the last 2 games and I asked Rich Sharpe to ask Mowbray where he sees Brereton long term position in this team. Hopefully he did

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

We know why he hasn't played there the last 2 games and I asked Rich Sharpe to ask Mowbray where he sees Brereton long term position in this team. Hopefully he did

Do we? I don't know why he played Dack upfront and not Brereton after Graham went off. Enlighten me  

Edited October 25, 2018 by Bigdoggsteel

[JHRover]

1 minute ago, chaddyrovers said:

I think you are way off with your 1st point massively. Mowbray has said that the money was always there all summer, so are you saying was lying to the fans? Look at the 2 links below and what do you think and do you still have the same opinion?

Mowbray said this on the 25th of May "we have the budget to improve the squad" https://www.rovers.co.uk/news/2017/may/we-have-a-budget-to-improve-the-squad/

Also Mowbray said this on 11th of August "Tony Mowbray admits his budget never changed and that deadline day moves for Ben Brereton and Luke Freeman weren’t their only multi-million pound bids made throughout the window. " https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/16413310.they-werent-the-only-bids-rovers-boss-on-the-transfer-window/

Also Mowbray runs a very tight unit behind the scenes and doesn't like bid leaking out and his reaction was there when leaks were happening. 

on your second point, I believe Mowbray runs the footballing side of the club and don't see anyone inference in this. why didn't Mowbray have free reign? 

Most clubs spread the cost of transfer fee over 2 or 3 or 4 years so Rovers wouldn't be any different. 

Look at most of Rovers signings this summer they were mostly young players like Rothwell, Davenport, Palmer(loan), Armstrong, Brereton, Reed(loan). With Rodwell an experience player signing. So its Mowbray wants young, athleticism, young and hard working signings. 

 

I don't doubt that some money was there all summer. Don't think I've said Mowbray has lied to fans. I've said Brereton hasn't cost us £7 million yet and probably never will, and that it was never as simple as Mowbray having free reign to do whatever he wanted with that sort of money.

If you want to believe that the owners in this day and age are prepared to hand over £7 million to be spent anywhere and anyhow the manager wants without them or their inside man Pasha keeping a very close eye on things fair enough. I believe that potential signings have to fit a strict set of rules in terms of wages, age etc.

None of these issues are necessarily limited to BRFC. Most clubs have Directors of Football, Chairmen, financial constraints, wage ceilings etc. to contend with. I'm not implying this is some sort of elaborate conspiracy.

Just plain and simple - we took a risk on Brereton because he ticked all of our boxes in terms of price, age, wages etc. Never as simple as Mowbray going and getting a Patrick Bamford for example, who would have considerably more. Nor was it likely to be as simple as signing 3 players in 3 positions for £2 million each, doubt that money would have been there for that, hence why we brought in the likes of Rodwell, Rothwell and Reed on frees/loans instead of splitting the '£7 million' three or four ways.

[chaddyrovers]

45 minutes ago, JHRover said:

I don't doubt that some money was there all summer. Don't think I've said Mowbray has lied to fans. I've said Brereton hasn't cost us £7 million yet and probably never will, and that it was never as simple as Mowbray having free reign to do whatever he wanted with that sort of money.

If you want to believe that the owners in this day and age are prepared to hand over £7 million to be spent anywhere and anyhow the manager wants without them or their inside man Pasha keeping a very close eye on things fair enough. I believe that potential signings have to fit a strict set of rules in terms of wages, age etc.

None of these issues are necessarily limited to BRFC. Most clubs have Directors of Football, Chairmen, financial constraints, wage ceilings etc. to contend with. I'm not implying this is some sort of elaborate conspiracy.

Just plain and simple - we took a risk on Brereton because he ticked all of our boxes in terms of price, age, wages etc. Never as simple as Mowbray going and getting a Patrick Bamford for example, who would have considerably more. Nor was it likely to be as simple as signing 3 players in 3 positions for £2 million each, doubt that money would have been there for that, hence why we brought in the likes of Rodwell, Rothwell and Reed on frees/loans instead of splitting the '£7 million' three or four ways.

Thanks for response JHRover. 

I disagree on all the money being there. 

I think Bamford cost 8 mil to Leeds didnt he. Wonder if Waghorn was a target. We know Celina was a target but went Swansea for 4 million. McGinn who went Villa was linked. We tried for Freeman from QPR. Mowbray had targets and I remember him saying he was uedecided whether he would spent most of budget on 1 player or on a couple of players. 

So Money seemed to be there.

I think Mowbray always prefer to signings young players who he can work with and develop. I think he gets more freedom then previous managers have and he has their trust. 

I do agree 100% with your previous comment of " it does irk me a little that people are quick to use the £7 million price tag against Brereton himself, when the lad isn't to blame for his transfer fee and that fee is being blown out of proportion (as most transfer fees are)."

[dingles staying down 4ever]

Chaddy it is very rare that fees are paid in one installment so I can't see this being any diiferent. If Rovers have had a budget of a premier club then yes I'd agree that the size of fee does not matter. But spending this amount on one player must take us close to FFP restrictions so yes the fee does matter and the fact that he is not an automatic starter makes him a luxuryv.

There is no way that Brereton will ever be a like for like replacement for Graham so I cannot understand why people are expecting to him play like that just because he is tall. I agree we should have brought in a Graham type player as a priority because he is key to Rovers system and not getting any younger. I still say that Graham is more key than Dack because Rothwell and Armstrong can all play off Graham when Dack is missing. I would imagine Brereton can as well but we'll have to wait to see if that is the case.

[dingles staying down 4ever]

2 hours ago, Doaksie said:

A move that only happened after we were rebuffed in our attempts to bring in Sol Campbell. 

Never heard that one

[roversfan99]

Its totally illogical to say that he shouldnt be judged based on the price he cost.

The amount of money spent on him was in our recent history, a gigantic fee. It was the majority of our summer budget. Compare it to Joe Nuttall, hes gone from being a regular part of our matchday squad to seemingly out of the picture for the near future, and no one has batted an eye lid. Even if Nuttall didnt do anything for the club again, it wouldnt be as much of a big deal as it was a low cost youth signing. The fee quite frankly HAS to be and will continue to be part of the debate regarding Ben Brereton.

2 hours ago, J*B said:

I reckon he'll come really good. He only needs 1 season where he scores 15+ league goals and he's suddenly a 20m striker.

What a big if that is. Hes scored Only 8 players got 15 goals or more last year, and half of them now play in the Premier League. In comparison, Brereton scored 8 in 53 prior to joining. Theres no suggestion that he will be capable of such a prolific season anytime soon, nor am I sure that it would make him worth quite that much anyway.

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Not many of those type of quality of Graham about. Could you name anyone? 

What wrong with giving Brereton some time to settle in and get use to Mowbray ways and want he demand. 

Mowbray has explained why he played Brereton wide and Dack up front cos he wanted 3 players in centre midfield. At least Mowbray is so honest and open about his thinking 

Nothing wrong with that, but people will judge game by game in the meantime on an internet messageboard. And also judge the manager for the way he utilises him, which most including yourself agree has been wrongly in the last 2 games. Being "honest and open" is irrelevant, we want him to be right.

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

6 hours ago, dingles staying down 4ever said:

That would be Christain Dailly but even he was better than Darren Peacock who'd arrived in the summer.

Actually thinking about Dailly was a converted Scottish midfielder who became a Centre Half. So thats another player cast in the reboot.

You mean Christian " Bloody " Dailly.   Jim Smith tells the story that he'd heard through the grapevine that Rovers were interested in Dailly so he approached his board to find out how much they wanted for him. The chairman told him - " Not a penny less than £2 million Jim ".

He nearly fell off his chair when Hodgson phoned him and started the bidding at £5 Million. He played hard to get and managed to get the fee up a bit further !  

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

4 hours ago, tomphil said:

Despite what the outlay is quoted as  possibly adding up to in total I actually think they went down the safe route with Brereton. Very young, potential, decent deposit then terms spread over years and being so young likely  to be on less than 10 grand pwk initially.  If it works out it's a winner, if he just does average he can still be flogged for 2 or 3 mill which will more or less cover what's been outlayed up to that point and if he flops well it's just another BRFC write off but he can still be a squad man for years or loaned out !!!

Signing a 25 yr old with a bit of championship pedigree would've come with 10/20k pwk three or four year contract as well as a fee or loan fee.

In can see him being loaned back to Forest at some point in the future and that would set tongues a wagging again, quite rightly.

 

The trouble is he's treading water at Rovers whilst we desperately needed a back up for Graham. We live in the present not two years in the future.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

4 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

'tNot many of those type of quality of Graham about. Could you name anyone? 

What wrong with giving Brereton some time to settle in and get use to Mowbray ways and want he demand. 

Mowbray has explained why he played Brereton wide and Dack up front cos he wanted 3 players in centre midfield. At least Mowbray is so honest and open about his thinking 

I keep telling you I'm not a pro scout. However are you seriously telling me that there isn't another player in the whole of Europe that can't play a similar role for £7 million ?

Edited October 25, 2018 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[chaddyrovers]

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Its totally illogical to say that he shouldnt be judged based on the price he cost.

The amount of money spent on him was in our recent history, a gigantic fee. It was the majority of our summer budget. Compare it to Joe Nuttall, hes gone from being a regular part of our matchday squad to seemingly out of the picture for the near future, and no one has batted an eye lid. Even if Nuttall didnt do anything for the club again, it wouldnt be as much of a big deal as it was a low cost youth signing. The fee quite frankly HAS to be and will continue to be part of the debate regarding Ben Brereton.

What a big if that is. Hes scored Only 8 players got 15 goals or more last year, and half of them now play in the Premier League. In comparison, Brereton scored 8 in 53 prior to joining. Theres no suggestion that he will be capable of such a prolific season anytime soon, nor am I sure that it would make him worth quite that much anyway.

Nothing wrong with that, but people will judge game by game in the meantime on an internet messageboard. And also judge the manager for the way he utilises him, which most including yourself agree has been wrongly in the last 2 games. Being "honest and open" is irrelevant, we want him to be right.

 

Total disagree on the first point. The price shouldn't be a factor in judging him as you be judging all the players the same. It should not be any PART of any discussion on Brereton. 

He will only start scoring when we play to his strengths and use him properly. 

I have been annoying by him playing wide but at least Mowbray is open and honest to the fans to explained his thinking behind playing him wide. how many more managers would be like this. Not many if any. 

31 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I keep telling you I'm not a pro scout. However are you seriously telling me that there isn't another player in the whole of Europe that can't play a similar role for £7 million ?

neither am I but I do watch a lot of football and be impress by some players. 

Is Mowbray even looking to Europe ? cos so far every signing as been UK or Ireland based. Not sure signing overseas players would fit into this group and the team attitude/morale

Mowbray put a lot into people personality and the type of person they are. He has said this during the fans meeting before and to Rich Sharpe. Look at those free agents he look and held talks with and didn't sign any of them apart from Rothwell. 

Also do you not think that Mowbray will look to change the style of play and make us more a possession based team style. Like his WBA team 

 

[roversfan99]

1 minute ago, chaddyrovers said:

Total disagree on the first point. The price shouldn't be a factor in judging him as you be judging all the players the same. It should not be any PART of any discussion on Brereton. 

He will only start scoring when we play to his strengths and use him properly. 

I have been annoying by him playing wide but at least Mowbray is open and honest to the fans to explained his thinking behind playing him wide. how many more managers would be like this. Not many if any. 

neither am I but I do watch a lot of football and be impress by some players. 

Is Mowbray even looking to Europe ? cos so far every signing as been UK or Ireland based. Not sure signing overseas players would fit into this group and the team attitude/morale

Mowbray put a lot into people personality and the type of person they are. He has said this during the fans meeting before and to Rich Sharpe. Look at those free agents he look and held talks with and didn't sign any of them apart from Rothwell. 

Also do you not think that Mowbray will look to change the style of play and make us more a possession based team style. Like his WBA team 

 

Of course it is a factor! And it will be a factor for most so youre going to have to get used to it! When it comes to picking a team, obviously it is irrelevant. Hence why free agent Graham is first choice. But in regards to judging him as an individual, and his success/failure of a signing? Of course it is, and thats why hes attracting far more debate than anyone else. Hes a massive financial signing for our club. Hes not a youth player or a free agent whereby theres no massive loss if he doesnt work out, hes a massive chunk of our recent financial spending all on his shoulders. Of course he is young and people appreciate that but the price IS something that will always be with him, whether you like it or not.

Whether he will "start scoring" is open to debate due to his goal record, but I agree that he needs to play in his correct position, if at all (not at the moment with Graham far and away our number 1 striker) which is why Mowbray has received a lot of deserved criticism in regards to using him wide. I've seen far more criticism for Mowbray playing him wide in the last week or so, over people directly criticising Brereton and his lack of threat.

He was asked directly about Brereton, its hardly unique honesty by answering that question. 

[JHRover]

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Its totally illogical to say that he shouldnt be judged based on the price he cost.

The amount of money spent on him was in our recent history, a gigantic fee. It was the majority of our summer budget. Compare it to Joe Nuttall, hes gone from being a regular part of our matchday squad to seemingly out of the picture for the near future, and no one has batted an eye lid. Even if Nuttall didnt do anything for the club again, it wouldnt be as much of a big deal as it was a low cost youth signing. The fee quite frankly HAS to be and will continue to be part of the debate regarding Ben Brereton.

 

 

Not sure I agree with this. I think that the manager and recruitment team should be judged on the basis of how much he cost, not sure Brereton himself really should.

End of the day he's a 19 year old kid who plays football. He doesn't decide how much clubs bid or demand for his services, he can't do anything about it other than try his best. 

Not sure why because Forest demanded £x and Mowbray/Venkys paid £x for him that he should be judged differently to any other player at the club. 

If he some sort of supposed superstar arriving on mega bucks wages who had form for ripping this league apart then maybe additional pressure would be fair.

I'm fairly relaxed about the whole thing. Quite clear to me that this signing was a long term project by the owners and Mowbray and after half a dozen substitute appearances I'm not reaching any conclusions as yet.

[Stuart]

8 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Total disagree on the first point. The price shouldn't be a factor in judging him as you be judging all the players the same. It should not be any PART of any discussion on Brereton.

Of course it is part of the discussion when judging the impact of a new signing.

If he had come through the ranks or cost say £500k he would be given much more leeway.

Where I would concede is that this is not Brereton’s fault that some idiot spent £7m on him but by your logic he should not be feeling any pressure or expectation due to the fee anyway. That said, if he was currently playing without that pressure then I would be even more concerned.

[Hasta]

5 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

11 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

 

Not many of those type of quality of Graham about. Could you name anyone? 

Rudy.

[roversfan99]

7 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Not sure I agree with this. I think that the manager and recruitment team should be judged on the basis of how much he cost, not sure Brereton himself really should.

End of the day he's a 19 year old kid who plays football. He doesn't decide how much clubs bid or demand for his services, he can't do anything about it other than try his best. 

Not sure why because Forest demanded £x and Mowbray/Venkys paid £x for him that he should be judged differently to any other player at the club. 

If he some sort of supposed superstar arriving on mega bucks wages who had form for ripping this league apart then maybe additional pressure would be fair.

I'm fairly relaxed about the whole thing. Quite clear to me that this signing was a long term project by the owners and Mowbray and after half a dozen substitute appearances I'm not reaching any conclusions as yet.

I do think that the 2 sort of go hand in hand. Yes, the main judgement would be, should Mowbray have spent that sort of money on Brereton based on his success/failure has time goes on, bu

Obviously, it is not Breretons fault how much we paid for him, but when he costs as much as he did, relative to how much we have spent otherwise in the last 5 years, then he automatically has to then take on some additional pressure.

I am not reaching any conclusions, and it is obvious that it is a long term project. But for that sort of money, with over a season of regular Championship football under his belt, he has to be able to contribute now.

Something that Stuart touches on below, there is a difference on expectation based on price tag, which is why people dismissing it as relevant are incorrect. I think a good example is Joe Nuttall, an academy free signing who has fallen away from the first team.

If that happened to Brereton in the same way, not that I am saying that will happen, but there would rightfully be far more of an inquest in to how that has allowed to happen.

Likewise, with Davenport, he is a young lad but he cost a couple of hundred grand and has less experience. He has been injured up to now and hasnt barely been mentioned. If that was Brereton still awaiting his debut, people would be far more desperate to see him return.

4 minutes ago, Stuart said:

Of course it is part of the discussion when judging the impact of a new signing.

If he had come through the ranks or cost say £500k he would be given much more leeway.

Where I would concede is that this is not Brereton’s fault that some idiot spent £7m on him but by your logic he should not be feeling any pressure or expectation due to the fee anyway. That said, if he was currently playing without that pressure then I would be even more concerned.