Ben Brereton Diaz

[JacknOry]

We are not really going to know until we get an extended look at him rather than just 10 minutes at a time. He did do well again I thought. A poster mentioned they wish he shot when he had the chance but I thought he showed maturity by not doing so and taking it to the corner. 

[rigger]

9 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

We are not really going to know until we get an extended look at him rather than just 10 minutes at a time. He did do well again I thought. A poster mentioned they wish he shot when he had the chance but I thought he showed maturity by not doing so and taking it to the corner. 

I totally agree we used up about 2 minutes in the corner. Remember Gally against Preston

[Peteb2014]

25 minutes ago, Franky said:

He did what was asked of him yesterday.

10 minutes lad, get out there and influence the game.

won a penalty and helped keep the play in their last third.

 

I just wished when he was running through on goal he could have gotten a shot away and “broke the back of the net”.

I couldn’t help think that Shearer would have done.

 

 

Or did he actually show great maturity by not trying to shoot taking the corner on offer and see the game out.  What if he had taken the shot on had it saved and qpr gone up the other end and and scored ala gallagher v PNE

[JacknOry]

Just now, rigger said:

I totally agree we used up about 2 minutes in the corner. Remember Gally against Preston

Best two minutes of the game that was - wish just shows how dreadful the actual match was but he and Dack were class for that two minutes in the corner.

[unsall]

1 hour ago, K-Hod said:

I actually thought he did well yesterday after coming on tbh.

Some of the comments saying some on here want him to fail are just a bit bizarre.

Why on earth would any Rovers fan want any Rovers player not to succeed?

Seems like some strange point scoring to me.....

Well it ain’t point scoring from me, how some posters have made their mind up he is useless, is the bizarre bit, like most normal folk need a bit more time to assess the lad, and to start comparing him to Duff like Mercer is banging on, is crazy.

[arbitro]

47 minutes ago, Stuart said:

I was willing him to shoot when he got through. Just pull the trigger!

I was too but he kept calm and got the next best thing, a corner. That gave us the opportunity to run the clock and keeping the ball in that corner for nigh on two minutes was a sight to behold.

[JacknOry]

14 minutes ago, arbitro said:

I was too but he kept calm and got the next best thing, a corner. That gave us the opportunity to run the clock and keeping the ball in that corner for nigh on two minutes was a sight to behold.

When BB pretended he thought a throw-in was a corner and put the ball there to waste more time was epic - Ref didnt think so though ha-ha.

[roversfan99]

23 minutes ago, unsall said:

Well it ain’t point scoring from me, how some posters have made their mind up he is useless, is the bizarre bit, like most normal folk need a bit more time to assess the lad, and to start comparing him to Duff like Mercer is banging on, is crazy.

The majority of conversation has been about 2 issues though, the price and the role he has to play. Very few people have done a Mercer and called him a dud. Comparisons to Duff (and Mbappe) are unneeded. Most are frustrated that hes shunted wide, I think even yesterday when he drifted into wide areas he looked a bit clumsy at times, and put in one or two poor crosses. I do think he showed that theres definitely something there if we play him where he flourished at Forest centrally though as he can run in behind centre backs and cause them problems, and he looked sharper in general yesterday.

The thing is, you havent really stated any reasoning behind your view, your sole argument is to trust Mowbray, thats not an opinion.

[unsall]

2 hours ago, Mercer said:

A player can be having a poor game but over the course of a match, if there's anything about him, he will usually do something that makes you think 'this lad might have a bit of something'.

None of us have seen Brereton as often as we would like in a blue and white shirt given the £7million deal but when I have seen him, I've felt underwhelmed and sat there scratching my head as I've seen nothing that suggests to me that we might have a 'proper player' on our hands.

I contrast that with Damien Duff who I first saw as a 17 year old in Rovers' reserves - his first few touches got me thinking we just might have a real talent here. 

Duff debuted as an 18 year old in the Premier League and was man of the match - fans left the ground purring. 

This was 20+ years ago, maybe you weren't even around then,  but the point I'm trying to make is that if a lad has real talent it makes you sit up and take notice just as Duff did as a 17 year old in that reserve match.  Sadly, Brereton draws a blank with me.  

 

Think comparing him with Duff, is a little unfair, I do remember him small blond lad from Ireland, certainly was around then and a bit further back, To give you a clue I remember the other Irish winger, Joe Haverty, now that goes a long way back.

I know you said you go back to jolly Jack, but I go back one further Dally Duncan, so we are  both knocking on and seen probably more matches than most on here, not sure if you saw Fred Pickering play, now he stared in the youth cup final as a full back at 18, next couple of seasons moved up front, banged a load of goals in, record transfer to Everton, scored hat trick on his England debut, point being you couldn’t tell at that age what he could do, just saying give Brereton a chance before making your mind up, regardless of transfer fee.

[JacknOry]

30 minutes ago, unsall said:

Well it ain’t point scoring from me, how some posters have made their mind up he is useless, is the bizarre bit, like most normal folk need a bit more time to assess the lad, and to start comparing him to Duff like Mercer is banging on, is crazy.

As Roversfan said, I can recall only one person writing off BB as a player. The debate has not been about the player, it is the transfer, the position he has been playing and whether it was the right piece of business. 

I gave BB praise after Leeds and also after this game in the short cameos that we have seen of him, my opinion of him as a player have yet to be formed however, as we simply have not seen enough of him yet. There is something there and he seems mature for his age which is always a good sign. Also, it seems like he has a good relationship with the players already.

Just want to see more of him as it is difficult to form an opinion of a player when he comes on essentially just to close out a game - which admittedly he has done very well at.

Edited November 4, 2018 by JacknOry

[unsall]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

The majority of conversation has been about 2 issues though, the price and the role he has to play. Very few people have done a Mercer and called him a dud. Comparisons to Duff (and Mbappe) are unneeded. Most are frustrated that hes shunted wide, I think even yesterday when he drifted into wide areas he looked a bit clumsy at times, and put in one or two poor crosses. I do think he showed that theres definitely something there if we play him where he flourished at Forest centrally though as he can run in behind centre backs and cause them problems, and he looked sharper in general yesterday.

The thing is, you havent really stated any reasoning behind your view, your sole argument is to trust Mowbray, thats not an opinion.

Well the fact that many Forest fans didn’t want him to leave, the clips I’ve seen of him at Forest, not just down the middle, the game he destroyed Arsenal, and the many plaudits who thought he could end up costing 10/12 mil, and going to a top club,it’s called potential, oh and Mowbray rates him as well.

[roversfan99]

Just now, unsall said:

Well the fact that many Forest fans didn’t want him to leave, the clips I’ve seen of him at Forest, not just down the middle, the game he destroyed Arsenal, and the many plaudits who thought he could end up costing 10/12 mil, and going to a top club,it’s called potential, oh and Mowbray rates him as well.

Mostly fair. I am not a fan of judging players on youtube videos though, they are not a fair barometer. Forest fans were pretty clear in how his form dipping coincided with moving him to a wide position. The Arsenal game was amidst a spell for him it seems where he thrived centrally and I'm not on my own in really wanting to see him there for us,

[chaddyrovers]

3 hours ago, Mercer said:

You really do talk nonsense.

Supported Rovers for 55+ years home and away including Europe and in the process probably spent a fortune when factoring in family tickets etc.

Also. played at a decent level myself until I busted my knee (as opposed to those who have never kicked a ball in anger in their life).

So don't try and tell me I don't care about Rovers or I don't know what I am talking about.

I hope Brereton proves a roaring success. as I do with all Rovers' signings, however, based on what I've seen of the lad, I think we've signed a dud in a £7million deal - it's as simple as that.

 

 

you need look in the mirror pal. Look at your Dack leaving comments in the summer, or how many times he linked Rhodes with Bolton and Wigan who both had Scottish managers and you keep using your little saying aswell also angered people alot. 

based on what you seen? Where you there yesterday? 

2 hours ago, Mercer said:

A player can be having a poor game but over the course of a match, if there's anything about him, he will usually do something that makes you think 'this lad might have a bit of something'.

None of us have seen Brereton as often as we would like in a blue and white shirt given the £7million deal but when I have seen him, I've felt underwhelmed and sat there scratching my head as I've seen nothing that suggests to me that we might have a 'proper player' on our hands.

I contrast that with Damien Duff who I first saw as a 17 year old in Rovers' reserves - his first few touches got me thinking we just might have a real talent here. 

Duff debuted as an 18 year old in the Premier League and was man of the match - fans left the ground purring. 

This was 20+ years ago, maybe you weren't even around then,  but the point I'm trying to make is that if a lad has real talent it makes you sit up and take notice just as Duff did as a 17 year old in that reserve match.  Sadly, Brereton draws a blank with me.  

 

why keep comparing him to Duff. Duff is a rare talent. pointless comparison. 

did you not see Brereton performance against Arsenal last season where he ripped their defence apart?

 

9 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

The majority of conversation has been about 2 issues though, the price and the role he has to play. Very few people have done a Mercer and called him a dud. Comparisons to Duff (and Mbappe) are unneeded. Most are frustrated that hes shunted wide, I think even yesterday when he drifted into wide areas he looked a bit clumsy at times, and put in one or two poor crosses. I do think he showed that theres definitely something there if we play him where he flourished at Forest centrally though as he can run in behind centre backs and cause them problems, and he looked sharper in general yesterday.

The thing is, you havent really stated any reasoning behind your view, your sole argument is to trust Mowbray, thats not an opinion.

As the player said himself yesterday he just wants to play football. 

Brereton does drifted wide even when he plays up front as the number 9. He isn't a Graham type striker but wants it into space or feet. I thought he should have shot sooner before the defender tackle him. 

I would start him against Rotherham

[unsall]

6 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Mostly fair. I am not a fan of judging players on youtube videos though, they are not a fair barometer. Forest fans were pretty clear in how his form dipping coincided with moving him to a wide position. The Arsenal game was amidst a spell for him it seems where he thrived centrally and I'm not on my own in really wanting to see him there for us,

Yeah, will probably have to see a few more games, before we make up our minds, and once he starts games we get a better idea, I’d like him to start next week, think a team like Rotherham could be a good game for him to be eased in, but probably be on the bench.

[Stuart]

30 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

When BB pretended he thought a throw-in was a corner and put the ball there to waste more time was epic - Ref didnt think so though ha-ha.

Bit of an unnecessary yellow card that. The ref was so officious all match. His first booking after 3 minutes set the tone and a ridiculous yellow for a great block tackle (both players going in hard but fair) was a nonsense.

All you had to do was fall over under pressure to satisfy that whistle-happy fool. I bet his real job involves a clipboard and high viz vest.

[Pedro]

Just now, Stuart said:

Bit of an unnecessary yellow card that. The ref was so officious all match. His first booking after 3 minutes set the tone and a ridiculous yellow for a great block tackle (both players going in hard but fair) was a nonsense.

All you had to do was fall over under pressure to satisfy that whistle-happy fool. I bet his real job involves a clipboard and high viz vest.

I found him really frustrating. I can't believe that someone with such terrible judgement could work their way up to that level. What a fool he was.

[roversfan99]

14 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

did you not see Brereton performance against Arsenal last season where he ripped their defence apart?

 

As the player said himself yesterday he just wants to play football. 

Brereton does drifted wide even when he plays up front as the number 9. He isn't a Graham type striker but wants it into space or feet. I thought he should have shot sooner before the defender tackle him. 

I would start him against Rotherham

Obviously, thats a standard professional footballers answer. Any player would rather play out of position than not at all.

He can still run the channels on occasion playing as a 9.

The Arsenal performance you mention, where did he play then? When he retired Mertesacker and embarrassed Rob Holding?

11 minutes ago, unsall said:

Yeah, will probably have to see a few more games, before we make up our minds, and once he starts games we get a better idea, I’d like him to start next week, think a team like Rotherham could be a good game for him to be eased in, but probably be on the bench.

Its a difficult one, Graham like Dack has more than enough credit in the bank to excuse their poor performance (when starved of service) yesterday and I would be loathe to drop him too hastily against a team who will most likely come to Ewood and park the bus, where his hold up play may be more useful than Breretons ability to run into space.

That said, he would certainly be prominent in my thinking when selecting a central striker, and nowhere near when selecting the wide men.

[unsall]

38 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Obviously, thats a standard professional footballers answer. Any player would rather play out of position than not at all.

He can still run the channels on occasion playing as a 9.

The Arsenal performance you mention, where did he play then? When he retired Mertesacker and embarrassed Rob Holding?

Its a difficult one, Graham like Dack has more than enough credit in the bank to excuse their poor performance (when starved of service) yesterday and I would be loathe to drop him too hastily against a team who will most likely come to Ewood and park the bus, where his hold up play may be more useful than Breretons ability to run into space.

That said, he would certainly be prominent in my thinking when selecting a central striker, and nowhere near when selecting the wide men.

Still wouldn’t drop Graham or Dack, if starting him he would have to start wide right, and bide his time.

[OldEwoodBlue]

3 hours ago, Peteb2014 said:

Or did he actually show great maturity by not trying to shoot taking the corner on offer and see the game out.  What if he had taken the shot on had it saved and qpr gone up the other end and and scored ala gallagher v PNE

what if

2-0 up wins the match and is better than a corner.

An instinctive striker would have had nothing in mind except smashing it in the net.

A Shearer or a Rooney... or a Haggis would not be out muscled and fail to get a shot away.

 

Although having got the corner he and Dack did superbly well.

 

[Tom Stinny]

3 minutes ago, Franky said:

what if

2-0 up wins the match and is better than a corner.

An instinctive striker would have had nothing in mind except smashing it in the net.

A Shearer or a Rooney... or a Haggis would not be out muscled and fail to get a shot away.

 

Although having got the corner he and Dack did superbly well.

 

Not to direct this at anyone but this is exactly why I want this lad to do well because it seems no matter what he chooses to do or does on the pitch. It will be viewed as bad. 

 

If he takes it on and scores fair play but, if he'd lost the ball which leads to a 1-1 result you'd have everyone blaming him. No one would be going "if he's a proper instinctive striker he should go for it" it's a team sport.

 

If come the end of the season the team gets top 6 then he will have played a roll big or small it does not matter. It's not the supporters money to judge him on.

[OldEwoodBlue]

6 minutes ago, Tom Stinny said:

Not to direct this at anyone but this is exactly why I want this lad to do well because it seems no matter what he chooses to do or does on the pitch. It will be viewed as bad. 

 

If he takes it on and scores fair play but, if he'd lost the ball which leads to a 1-1 result you'd have everyone blaming him. No one would be going "if he's a proper instinctive striker he should go for it" it's a team sport.

 

If come the end of the season the team gets top 6 then he will have played a roll big or small it does not matter. It's not the supporters money to judge him on.

The lad did well yesterday.

Just wished he had smashed that in the net. For himself as well as the supporters who endured a very poor game.

Not a criticism by any means.

[chaddyrovers]

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Obviously, thats a standard professional footballers answer. Any player would rather play out of position than not at all.

He can still run the channels on occasion playing as a 9.

The Arsenal performance you mention, where did he play then? When he retired Mertesacker and embarrassed Rob Holding?

Its a difficult one, Graham like Dack has more than enough credit in the bank to excuse their poor performance (when starved of service) yesterday and I would be loathe to drop him too hastily against a team who will most likely come to Ewood and park the bus, where his hold up play may be more useful than Breretons ability to run into space.

That said, he would certainly be prominent in my thinking when selecting a central striker, and nowhere near when selecting the wide men.

He played up front. but why did you asked the question when you already knew the answers? playing funny games?

I would start Brereton against Rotherham and put Graham on the bench. I wouldn't start Armstrong either who was shocking yesterday. 

[roversfan99]

36 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

He played up front. but why did you asked the question when you already knew the answers? playing funny games?

I would start Brereton against Rotherham and put Graham on the bench. I wouldn't start Armstrong either who was shocking yesterday. 

It was a rhetorical question about a point that me and you agree on (heaven forbid!) that Brereton is best as a number 9, with an example of his finest hour (and a half) in that position.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

4 hours ago, unsall said:

Think comparing him with Duff, is a little unfair, I do remember him small blond lad from Ireland, certainly was around then and a bit further back, To give you a clue I remember the other Irish winger, Joe Haverty, now that goes a long way back.

I know you said you go back to jolly Jack, but I go back one further Dally Duncan, so we are  both knocking on and seen probably more matches than most on here, not sure if you saw Fred Pickering play, now he stared in the youth cup final as a full back at 18, next couple of seasons moved up front, banged a load of goals in, record transfer to Everton, scored hat trick on his England debut, point being you couldn’t tell at that age what he could do, just saying give Brereton a chance before making your mind up, regardless of transfer fee.

We got lucky moving Fred from left back to centre forward. We were stuck for  a striker in the reserves because of injuries and he offered to have a go, the rest was history. He'd have ended up at somewhere like Rochdale with Dave Wells if he'd have stayed at left back.

The least said about Joe Haverty the better.

[Mercer]

4 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

based on what you seen? Where you there yesterday? 

why keep comparing him to Duff. Duff is a rare talent. pointless comparison. 

 

 

 

Wasn't there yesterday as working.  That ok?

Comparing to Duff!?  You just don't get it do you! 

I am not comparing him with Duff, Mbappe, Sessegnon, Alex-Arnold, Ampadu at all. 

The first point, relative to Duff and indeed any footballer with any kind of talent, is that they almost certainly show something during the course of a game, even if they are having a poor game, to suggest they have something in their locker.  When I saw Duff, and I think it was either his first or second reserve game for Rovers, he was a raw 17 year old who we had just signed from a club in Ireland for, I think, a friendly game the following season.  There was therefore no great expectation but as I posted earlier, his very first few touches were enough for me to sit up and take notice and think there just might be a real talent there.  Contrast that with Brereton who has arrived in a £7million deal to great hopes and, not unreasonably, great expectation, and I have yet to see him do anything in a Rovers' shirt to suggest he is any better than a free transfer signing!

The second point, and the reference to the 'big names' mentioned, is that it doesn't matter how young you are.  If you have talent and are good enough then you are old enough.  I am sure there are 'lesser' names throughout the FL aged 19 or under and all making an impact at first team level.  Brereton is 19 and not deemed good enough to command a first team place in Rovers' team either as a 'wide striker' or as a 'central striker'.  IMV, it is simply absurd that Mowbray has sanctioned the signing of a 19 year for a huge deal (in current circumstances) for Rovers and he doesn't deem him good enough to start.  For that scale of money, the lad should be a 'game changer' who takes our team to a different performance level.