Ben Brereton Diaz

[47er]

10 hours ago, OnePhilT said:

In spite of what I've seen of Brereton so far, I just feel as though he'll come good. I agree with sentiments of the doubters, but I also think that he needs a run of games to build this confidence up and gel with the team. Although he's been here for almost a year and a half, it somehow feels like it's still too early to write him off.

We are a man down when we play him, its that simple. He's not even League 1 standard. If we did decide to loan him who'd take him? League2?Conference?

[JBiz]

10 hours ago, OnePhilT said:

In spite of what I've seen of Brereton so far, I just feel as though he'll come good. I agree with sentiments of the doubters, but I also think that he needs a run of games to build this confidence up and gel with the team. Although he's been here for almost a year and a half, it somehow feels like it's still too early to write him off.

To my knowledge he’s played 1 game in a front two in 18 months. 

I don’t think he’s improved, if anything I’d say he now looks bereft of confidence due to lack of game time, playing out wide and fierceness of competition in our attacking positions.

That said - I agree I think he has the raw attributes to eventually come good, and there is no real need either way to make a solid judgement on him as of yet, especially with such lack of appearances.

If I was in charge, I think I’d be keeping the 4th position for him, and sending the likes of Samuel on loan instead, as I think his development is best served under our staff.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just going back to Marlon Broomes for a minute. I remember reading an article by Alan Shearer in the programme, part of it was regarding young players that were coming through at Ewood. He was praising Broomes to the skies, future England international etc. I was really taken aback when I first saw him play, even allowing for his youth, he looked deeply average to me. He'd been built up as the next Bobby Moore and he looked nothing like him ability wise. When you see top young players coming through you can usually see a couple of attributes, Broomes didn't have any outstanding qualities.

Edited December 21, 2019 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[Swanson]

21 hours ago, JacknOry said:

He looks a completely different player to the one that we currently have. Where is the pace, dribbling and direct running?

Low on confidence? You see from those videos that he has the skills, you simply don't lose that overnight.  Wasn't Liverpool also interested at some point?

[tomphil]

Wrong signing, wrong club, wrong time, wrong fee.

I think it'll go down as one of those sadly, if Forest had loaned him out somewhere then without the pressure and being used correctly he might have been looking good now a division or two lower. At the right club obviously.

 

[Vinjay]

2 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Just going back to Marlon Broomes for a minute. I remember reading an article by Alan Shearer in the programme, part of it was regarding young players that were coming through at Ewood. He was praising Broomes to the skies, future England international etc. I was really taken aback when I first saw him play, even allowing for his youth, he looked deeply average to me. He'd been built up as the next Bobby Moore and he looked anything like him ability wise. When you see top young players coming through you can usually see a couple of attributes, Broomes didn't have any outstanding qualities.

Dalglish was the one who signed him. Several people saw something in him though I'm not sure what either. Hodgson and Kidd gave him first team chances and that didn't work out.

[Wood26]

I wish some fans would forget about the fee and look at him as a 20 year old prospect that has talent but is learning the game and perhaps feeling the pressure and lacking confidence.

How good was our other players at 20? I get it, I go to games and I see he’s not the standard we want yet....but give him time.

Also anyone thinking Mowbray got him in to bag 20 a season needs a reality check. He was purchased with the hope we can sell him for profit, like it or not that’s where we are at.

 

Edited December 23, 2019 by Wood26

[Sparks Rover]

Just now, Wood26 said:

Also anyone thinking Mowbray got him in to bag 20 a season needs a reality check. He was purchased with the hope we can sell him for profit, like it or not that’s where we are at.

 

This doesn't make sense.  He cost 5m so in order for us  to sell him for a decent profit he's going to have to score 20 goals a season.   ..No?

[Wood26]

Yeah eventually, just not when he’s 20 years old.

We aren’t gonna sign Austin for £4 million with no claw back despite that being more attractive for us and probably Tony.

Edited December 23, 2019 by Wood26

[philipl]

Just now, Sparks Rover said:

This doesn't make sense.  He cost 5m so in order for us  to sell him for a decent profit he's going to have to score 20 goals a season.   ..No?

No.

Much more than half the forward players in  Prem club squads don't get to 10 in a season but their all round performance would merit a transfer valuation above whatever the number was for Ben.

Still means this is serious kick on time for Ben now which if the thought is to protect his transfer value, the strategy should be to loan him to a Championship struggler with a requirement of a minimum number of starts.

Sadly.Butterworth's injury screws that as well as Butterworth's own progress unless another striker is coming in.

[Pedro]

7 hours ago, Wood26 said:

I wish some fans would forget about the fee and look at him as a 20 year old prospect that has talent but is learning the game and perhaps feeling the pressure and lacking confidence.

How good was our other players at 20? I get it, I go to games and I see he’s not the standard we want yet....but give him time.

Also anyone thinking Mowbray got him in to bag 20 a season needs a reality check. He was purchased with the hope we can sell him for profit, like it or not that’s where we are at.

 

We will sell him at a deficit. Playing him out wide has been detrimental. Not playing him in a front two has been detrimental and heaped pressure on him.  Extremely poor management and the whole thing has been mirrored with Gallagher (who shows a bit more promise these days - when played centrally).

[Sparks Rover]

7 hours ago, philipl said:

No.

Much more than half the forward players in  Prem club squads don't get to 10 in a season but their all round performance would merit a transfer valuation above whatever the number was for Ben.

Yes but they will have unbelievably technique which our ben doesn't have....has technically not very good.  So, the only way he's going to make a larger fee is to bang a load of goals in consistently 

[roversfan99]

9 hours ago, Wood26 said:

I wish some fans would forget about the fee and look at him as a 20 year old prospect that has talent but is learning the game and perhaps feeling the pressure and lacking confidence.

How good was our other players at 20? I get it, I go to games and I see he’s not the standard we want yet....but give him time.

Also anyone thinking Mowbray got him in to bag 20 a season needs a reality check. He was purchased with the hope we can sell him for profit, like it or not that’s where we are at.

 

Even if you take the price tag out of it, any player wearing the shirt will be judged dependant on performances and Brereton (albeit in primarily cameos) has looked well off the standard required and I have not seen this supposed talent as of yet. But hes not only being judged because he cost loads of money. Young or old. I judge Buckley who looks well off it when he comes on, he was an academy product. Nuttall was judged when he often came on for his often laboured appearances, he was free and young. Older players, Bennett, Mulgrew when he was here, everyone pulling on a shirt is subject to being judged. Conversely, Dack, Lenihan, Adarabioyo, Travis, Downing, all of various ages are also judged, positively based on performances.

The 20 goal a season argument is a little nonsensical, no one is suggesting or implying that at all. 

His price tag is always going to be a factor because it was so big (and surely makes the prospect of making profit on him incredibly difficult) but ultimately it is a blessing for him as well because I think he makes the squad every time when fit partially because hes our 7m signing and not on merit. 

I think our best bet is to loan him out, he doesnt warrant or merit an extended run in the side and rarely playing will not help his development. Loan him to League 1 and re-evaluate upon his return after hopefully scoring a few goals.

"Give him time" is a meaningless platitude really IMO. All players will always be subject to judgement with each passing game, so far Brereton has not looked up to it. Lets hope that changes but if he or anyone else performs poorly in the mean time, people will comment, likewise if he plays tonight, scores and goes on a run.

[chaddyrovers]

Brereton wont be loan out in January as he will be needed as part of the squad during the rest of the squad 

[K-Hod]

11 hours ago, Wood26 said:

I wish some fans would forget about the fee and look at him as a 20 year old prospect that has talent but is learning the game and perhaps feeling the pressure and lacking confidence.

How good was our other players at 20? I get it, I go to games and I see he’s not the standard we want yet....but give him time.

Also anyone thinking Mowbray got him in to bag 20 a season needs a reality check. He was purchased with the hope we can sell him for profit, like it or not that’s where we are at.

 

Nobody is going to forget the fee as it’s a lot of money for us to be spending for someone that isn’t in the team every week! 
I really want him to be in the team, banging goals in regularly, obviously, but it’s hardly unreasonable for people to question our spending of £7 Million on a player!

Edited December 23, 2019 by K-Hod

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

11 hours ago, Wood26 said:

I wish some fans would forget about the fee and look at him as a 20 year old prospect that has talent but is learning the game and perhaps feeling the pressure and lacking confidence.

How good was our other players at 20? I get it, I go to games and I see he’s not the standard we want yet....but give him time.

Also anyone thinking Mowbray got him in to bag 20 a season needs a reality check. He was purchased with the hope we can sell him for profit, like it or not that’s where we are at.

 

How about purchasing players with the hope that they can actually hold down a first team place ? This buying players as long term investments is nonsense given the league position we find ourselves in. If we'd have paid £250k for him fair enough  but £7 million ? Crazy signing.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Even if you take the price tag out of it, any player wearing the shirt will be judged dependant on performances and Brereton (albeit in primarily cameos) has looked well off the standard required and I have not seen this supposed talent as of yet. But hes not only being judged because he cost loads of money. Young or old. I judge Buckley who looks well off it when he comes on, he was an academy product. Nuttall was judged when he often came on for his often laboured appearances, he was free and young. Older players, Bennett, Mulgrew when he was here, everyone pulling on a shirt is subject to being judged. Conversely, Dack, Lenihan, Adarabioyo, Travis, Downing, all of various ages are also judged, positively based on performances.

The 20 goal a season argument is a little nonsensical, no one is suggesting or implying that at all. 

His price tag is always going to be a factor because it was so big (and surely makes the prospect of making profit on him incredibly difficult) but ultimately it is a blessing for him as well because I think he makes the squad every time when fit partially because hes our 7m signing and not on merit. 

I think our best bet is to loan him out, he doesnt warrant or merit an extended run in the side and rarely playing will not help his development. Loan him to League 1 and re-evaluate upon his return after hopefully scoring a few goals.

"Give him time" is a meaningless platitude really IMO. All players will always be subject to judgement with each passing game, so far Brereton has not looked up to it. Lets hope that changes but if he or anyone else performs poorly in the mean time, people will comment, likewise if he plays tonight, scores and goes on a run.

 Give him time ? How long ? If he comes in and it's like playing with ten men and we lose a couple of games just when we're in play off range what happens then ? Nobody gets 6 games in the hope they might just do something. If Dack has a couple of games were he goes missing people on here will be saying give him a break and let's try Holtby or Rothwell there. 

[roversfan99]

53 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Brereton wont be loan out in January as he will be needed as part of the squad during the rest of the squad 

If he continues to get cameos from time to time with the occasional start and fail to impact on games he wont develop. Get him in League 1 and see if he can score regularly, we wont miss him.

[chaddyrovers]

7 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

If he continues to get cameos from time to time with the occasional start and fail to impact on games he wont develop. Get him in League 1 and see if he can score regularly, we wont miss him.

the team comes 1st. We need to keep the squad together apart from players ive mention we need loan or sell 

[roversfan99]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

the team comes 1st. We need to keep the squad together apart from players ive mention we need loan or sell 

But I dont think hes offering anything to the team anyway, we didnt miss him when he was injured. It would be better all round to loan him out. Ideally we could sign a better striker to challenge Graham but even failing that, the equally poor Samuel can be 3rd or 4th choice striker until his contract expires to let Brereton try and prove some sort of worth.

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

But I dont think hes offering anything to the team anyway, we didnt miss him when he was injured. It would be better all round to loan him out. Ideally we could sign a better striker to challenge Graham but even failing that, the equally poor Samuel can be 3rd or 4th choice striker until his contract expires to let Brereton try and prove some sort of worth.

Samuel will leave in January to join a new club. 

Lets focus on signing on a keeper, centre back and left back we need. 

don't need to be wasting money on buying another striker when we have the strikers here at the come

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

34 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Samuel will leave in January to join a new club. 

Lets focus on signing on a keeper, centre back and left back we need. 

don't need to be wasting money on buying another striker when we have the strikers here at the come

To be honest with you I'd rather keep Samuel and loan Brererton out in January. At least Samuel will put himself about.

[ben_the_beast]

He just isn't a footballer. He looks uncoordinated and has the strangest posture. The bloke isn't an athlete at all and doesn't have the technique to get by either. Some people say he's been badly managed and some fans want him to fail. I don't think any of that is true. They are just saying what they see and that is that he simply isn't up to it. We've had our pants pulled down

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

Samuel will leave in January to join a new club. 

Lets focus on signing on a keeper, centre back and left back we need. 

don't need to be wasting money on buying another striker when we have the strikers here at the come

Even if we dont sign a striker Brereton is dispensable. 

[chaddyrovers]

21 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Even if we dont sign a striker Brereton is dispensable. 

Like I said not for me. Keep the squad. 

how many more times?