Ben Brereton Diaz

[roversfan99]

20 minutes ago, OnePhilT said:

You're the only one mentioning abuse with Brereton. The word "pressure" was used. Why does it need to be so polarised?

It was "fans are hostile" and "abusive rhetoric directed at him" that I was referring to. 

1 hour ago, RovingRover said:

Chances he will ever come to something will reduce as long as fans continue to pressure him the way they do.

Striker position is a difficult one to be successful in, especially when fans are hostile.

It's not his fault how much money the club spent on him.

 

36 minutes ago, RovingRover said:

Fan pressure can effect a player as can price tags. See Fernando Alonso for instance

You don't have to look any further than messages directed at him on social networking sites to see the kind of abusive rhetoric directed at him and we all know it is directed at him from the stands.

He was signed up by Notts Forest and Rovers. He is undoubtedly a talented lad.

Would be genuinely interested to know what sporting qualifications you have to judge his potential.

 

[Mike E]

Re: Brereton.

In the current market, I'd say a 21yo English striker justifying a £6m price tag needs to score 10+ per season. Anything above that increases their price.

I think he can get there with actual game time imo.

Trouble is, I think Gallagher, for his faults, is a clearer focal point.

[Ewood Ace]

42 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Ah yes, blaming Breretons failings on "abusive" fans.

He has never got abuse hurled at him from the stands. Lets not make out that hes constantly abused.

You dont need to be an expert to conclude that so far he has shown very, very little bar 2 goals in 2 dead rubbers. And posting criticism on an internet messageboard is the place to do it.

Exactly if a bit of stick on an internet forum get's to him then he clearly doesn't have the right mentality to make it. The fans have actually been very patient with him given his dismal performances, I can think of some clubs whose fans by now would have been booing and heckling him form the stands by now.

 

48 minutes ago, RovingRover said:

Fan pressure can effect a player as can price tags. See Fernando Alonso for instance

You don't have to look any further than messages directed at him on social networking sites to see the kind of abusive rhetoric directed at him and we all know it is directed at him from the stands.

He was signed up by Notts Forest and Rovers. He is undoubtedly a talented lad.

Would be genuinely interested to know what sporting qualifications you have to judge his potential.

I've been watching football for over 60 years and I can tell you that Brereton is not a talented lad. A return of 2 goals in 2 years speaks for itself. He is a player who we spent £7 Million on we are entitled to expect a far better return than that.

[roversfan99]

2 minutes ago, OnePhilT said:

Ah, then you're not the only one talking about abuse ? When you see what gets said online, though, there is a fair amount levelled at a lot of players (not just Ben). I'd like to think he can look past it. Some clearly can't...

I agree with @Ewood Ace regarding what has been a patient fan base within the ground, I remember how happy Ewood was when he scored v Bolton for example.

Ultimately, a messageboard is a perfect platform for people to judge players. If he is coming on here, a player with 2 goals in 2 years, and is upset by the criticism. Firstly I dont know why a player would come on such a platform, and secondly, surely he would expect fans to not be overly pleased that as a forward he has contributed so little and often looked so out of place.

One thing I certainly do not approve of is people, well a minority of idiots, directly messaging players on social media to call them. That being said, I dont know if Brereton has received that.

As a seperate argument, players do need to be able to have a thick enough skin to deal with pressure.

[Mattyblue]

Every player gets abuse on Twitter after poor performances. 

Gallagher, Bell, Bennett, Walton just off the top of my head from last season. Nasty and completely counter-productive stuff they wouldn’t dare say to their face, but it’s the modern world unfortunately.

However, at games, by and large he’s been given fantastic support considering just how poor he’s been for large parts, and it’s been a credit to the match going support.
 

[bluebruce]

I reckon this Brereton discussion could go in the Brereton thread. But whilst I'm here I'll say that if we had signed him during lockdown and only seen the performances since then, we would probably be reasonably optimistic about the lad, albeit concerned about the three big fluffed chances in that time. I'm still hoping that tendency fades with further confidence.

Also hoping like others that Kipre is the guy we are close with, and that WBA's interest goes when they sign someone else, which is probably the only chance we have if they are actually at the personal terms stage as reported. But I suspect it's someone else.

[Stuart]

3 hours ago, S8 & Blue said:

We don’t have a DG anymore.

Get Arma, Dack, Holtby and Brereton on the pitch and we’ll score plenty.

Just as well since we invariably need to score three goals to win a game.

(Of course, Brereton shouldn’t be in that list and we had better hope Arma and Dack aren’t out at the same time).

[JacknOry]

1 hour ago, RovingRover said:

Fan pressure can effect a player as can price tags. See Fernando Alonso for instance

You don't have to look any further than messages directed at him on social networking sites to see the kind of abusive rhetoric directed at him and we all know it is directed at him from the stands.

He was signed up by Notts Forest and Rovers. He is undoubtedly a talented lad.

Would be genuinely interested to know what sporting qualifications you have to judge his potential.

Fernando Alonso is an F1 driver

[Boroblue]

I have a good feeling about Brereton regardless of yesterday’s miss I think he’s improving and could turn out to be a much better player than his initial performances suggest.

[Exiled_Rover]

4 hours ago, pick32 said:

Missed a Penalty and an open goal in his last two games that says it all for me 

The penalty was saved - it wasn't a bad one.

He also scored two cracking goals against Blackpool.

[JacknOry]

1 hour ago, RovingRover said:

Fan pressure can effect a player as can price tags. See Fernando Alonso for instance

You don't have to look any further than messages directed at him on social networking sites to see the kind of abusive rhetoric directed at him and we all know it is directed at him from the stands.

He was signed up by Notts Forest and Rovers. He is undoubtedly a talented lad.

Would be genuinely interested to know what sporting qualifications you have to judge his potential.

Yeah we get all that. It is not his fault - so who's is it? Nobody gets on his back - people just judge his performances.

He cost 7 million quid - that's two Shearer's

 

[Exiled_Rover]

3 hours ago, CD_93 said:

Made the second goal yesterday, too.

He set up Bell for the penalty too.

[JacknOry]

I can see how it would do your head in. But why would you even bother with social media anyway? i wouldn't if i was a player. I would end up in endless rows lol.

It's all about brand these days though, likes, follows, subscriptions. I can imagine players have and agents.managers and the like that push them to promote themselves etc. 

Edited August 30, 2020 by JacknOry

[arbitro]

I think Brereton has a very low bar for people to judge and whilst he has looked better recently his mediocrity is now replaced by average in my view. I honestly don't see enough in his positional sense, movement, touch, aggression and general skill level to cut it as a regular Championship play and goalscorer.

I really hope I'm wrong as we could do with 15 - 20 goals from him next season.

[bluebruce]

44 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

 

He cost 7 million quid - that's two Shearer's

 

Not these days though. Might as well say it's a 500 of 'insert fantastic player from 70s' or whatever.

[Admiral Nelsen]

31 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I agree with @Ewood Ace regarding what has been a patient fan base within the ground, I remember how happy Ewood was when he scored v Bolton for example.

Ultimately, a messageboard is a perfect platform for people to judge players. If he is coming on here, a player with 2 goals in 2 years, and is upset by the criticism. Firstly I dont know why a player would come on such a platform, and secondly, surely he would expect fans to not be overly pleased that as a forward he has contributed so little and often looked so out of place.

One thing I certainly do not approve of is people, well a minority of idiots, directly messaging players on social media to call them. That being said, I dont know if Brereton has received that.

As a seperate argument, players do need to be able to have a thick enough skin to deal with pressure.

Interesting point this, I was thinking about something similar after Amari'i Bells tweet yesterday.

I one hundred percent agree that Rovers fans have not been a difficult bunch to play in front of since L1, and Brereton has for the most part had nothing but encouragement from the terraces. But like you allude to, unlike players of even 10 years ago, unless you're that rare footballer with no social media presence, there's simply no getting away from the torrent of comments about you if you have a bad game. You're right that the abusive direct messages are from a minority of idiots, but a minority of 15,000 fans at Ewood and tens of thousands more away from the ground is a lot of people telling you that you're no good, and if you're one of the ones who gets picked in then it can be particularly grim. I remember David Goodwillie, admittedly not a man who deserves too much sympathy, once giving away a last minute penalty in an evening game against (I think) Brighton, and the amount of abuse he got on twitter after full-time directed at him really took me aback. And that's just the abuse, the amount of posts which might not be as direct but still give stick to players is far greater, and Brereton will have been getting plenty of that for almost two years. 

Take Chris Brown. He was explaining on his podcast that he was palpably aware of how much Rovers fans thought he was a waste of space. He mentioned the 'Has Chris Brown Scored Yet?' twitter account, which was just a bit of fun and hardly in the abuse category, but clearly he saw it and it got to him. 

I agree that part of being a high-profile sportsman is about being mentally strong enough to deal with pressure and fans questioning you, and with any luck Brereton will be the sort that will come through it and still be a good player for us. But there's no getting away that Rovers fans being patient with Ben at games will only have been part of the story, and having to deal with the thousands upon thousands of less patient comments from being a 19 year old boy will have taken huge mental strength.

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

2 minutes ago, Admiral Nelsen said:

Interesting point this, I was thinking about something similar after Amari'i Bells tweet yesterday.

I one hundred percent agree that Rovers fans have not been a difficult bunch to play in front of since L1, and Brereton has for the most part had nothing but encouragement from the terraces. But like you allude to, unlike players of even 10 years ago, unless you're that rare footballer with no social media presence, there's simply no getting away from the torrent of comments about you if you have a bad game. You're right that the abusive direct messages are from a minority of idiots, but a minority of 15,000 fans at Ewood and tens of thousands more away from the ground is a lot of people telling you that you're no good, and if you're one of the ones who gets picked in then it can be particularly grim. I remember David Goodwillie, admittedly not a man who deserves too much sympathy, once giving away a last minute penalty in an evening game against (I think) Brighton, and the amount of abuse he got on twitter after full-time directed at him really took me aback. And that's just the abuse, the amount of posts which might not be as direct but still give stick to players is far greater, and Brereton will have been getting plenty of that for almost two years. 

Take Chris Brown. He was explaining on his podcast that he was palpably aware of how much Rovers fans thought he was a waste of space. He mentioned the 'Has Chris Brown Scored Yet?' twitter account, which was just a bit of fun and hardly in the abuse category, but clearly he saw it and it got to him. 

I agree that part of being a high-profile sportsman is about being mentally strong enough to deal with pressure and fans questioning you, and with any luck Brereton will be the sort that will come through it and still be a good player for us. But there's no getting away that Rovers fans being patient with Ben at games will only have been part of the story, and having to deal with the thousands upon thousands of less patient comments from being a 19 year old boy will have taken huge mental strength.

The likes of Chris Brown should never have been at the club. Even he didn't get that much stick, it was more gallows humour watching him.

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

What I would say with Brereton is that there have been a few players who burst onto the scene young, got rave reviews, then disappeared completely for 2-3 yes before bouncing back and going on to be decent.  

[Admiral Nelsen]

13 minutes ago, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

The likes of Chris Brown should never have been at the club. Even he didn't get that much stick, it was more gallows humour watching him.

Completely agree, and to be fair he admits himself that he was garbage. I'm just saying that even when players are not targeted by fans at the ground (although I guess Brown got a bit of stick at Ewood too) it's amazingly difficult for them to escape stick from other quarters.

 

Also, if anyone is stuck for Christmas present ideas in a few months time, you could do worse than to get one of these. 

 

 

Edited August 30, 2020 by Admiral Nelsen

[Stuart]

3 hours ago, Vilesinner said:

He has looked excellent since his return from lockdown. 

Excellent is a bit strong. He looks better than he did.

Even in his best spell he has fall over his own feet after rounding the keeper, missed a penalty and at least one open net under no pressure.

He still has a long way to go to pay back his transfer fee.

[joey_big_nose]

2 hours ago, Stuart said:

Excellent is a bit strong. He looks better than he did.

Even in his best spell he has fall over his own feet after rounding the keeper, missed a penalty and at least one open net under no pressure.

He still has a long way to go to pay back his transfer fee.

Brutal but true.

[joey_big_nose]

4 hours ago, arbitro said:

I think Brereton has a very low bar for people to judge and whilst he has looked better recently his mediocrity is now replaced by average in my view. I honestly don't see enough in his positional sense, movement, touch, aggression and general skill level to cut it as a regular Championship play and goalscorer.

I really hope I'm wrong as we could do with 15 - 20 goals from him next season.

He's never going to score 15-20 even if he develops well. He's just not that sort of player. What's increasingly obvious is he's closer to a Joe Rothwell or Harry Chapman than a proper striker. Will always spend a lot longer outside the box than in it no matter where he is on the team sheet.

[Vilesinner]

12 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

Brutal but true.

And Armstrong missed 3 chances in our last friendly and he is excellent.

The lad is action packed. I will not knock anyone with such skill and effort. 

I am more concerned about Gallagher.

[Hasta]

15 hours ago, Vilesinner said:

 

The lad is action packed. I will not knock anyone with such skill and effort. 

 

You've spent the last 2 years in cloud cuckoo land mate.

He has been awful for most of his spell here, and shown little in regards to skill.  At the end of last year, in his "improved form" since lockdown, he had one game where I would class him as good. Someone corrected me when I said this last week that in fact he had two good games. Woohoo, 

Now yesterday he did ok in the second half, helpled by his contribution to both goals. Keep that up for a couple of months and I will revise my opinion on him. However we bought him as a striker and he will never be a 12 goal a season man. He's happiest running with the ball, but almost wants to knock it past the defenders out wide and charge past them.  

Everybody wants him to do well and score goals.  But people are now marking up his performances because they want him to do well, rather than based on what he actually does. 

Edited August 31, 2020 by Hasta

[Boroblue]

4 hours ago, Stuart said:

Excellent is a bit strong. He looks better than he did.

Even in his best spell he has fall over his own feet after rounding the keeper, missed a penalty and at least one open net under no pressure.

He still has a long way to go to pay back his transfer fee.

Yes but he’s getting into those positions. The transfer fee is not his fault and also his promotional YouTube stuff never show him has an out and out striker. Also I agree his previous effort has been atrocious in the main but it seems to be coming together