Ben Brereton Diaz

[roversfan99]

People make illogical signings after international tournaments, maybe he will never be more valuable and we can trick someone, perhaps Bielsa is not quite so gullible however.

[arbitro]

32 minutes ago, S8 & Blue said:

Disagree. I don't think he's played his best for Chile yet.

And also, if he was/is playing well on the international stage, you really gonna say it's in spite of the club that has had him since 19 years old and made him a better player than when he came in?? 

You saying you don't think he's played his best for Chile get kind of supports my point doesn't it? And I would dispute he is a better player now than when he signed for us.

Edited June 24, 2021 by arbitro

[windymiller7]

7 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

People make illogical signings after international tournaments, maybe he will never be more valuable and we can trick someone, perhaps Bielsa is not quite so gullible however.

Can't disagree with that one - Exhibit A:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maceo_Rigters

[islander200]

2 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

People make illogical signings after international tournaments, maybe he will never be more valuable and we can trick someone, perhaps Bielsa is not quite so gullible however.

Why were Forest so adamant that they wouldn't sell before their valuation of 7 million was met?Surely if he was as talentless as you suggest they would have been happy to get him off the books for whatever they could get.

You said in an earlier post that his involvement in the Copa America won't increase his value or attract interest which is nonsense if he continues to perform for them as he has done since the tournament started.You keep mentioning his goal against "lowly " Bolivia like that's the only thing he has done for them.He has played well in both games his running with and without the ball creates a lot of space for his teammates.I agree he will never be a high scoring centre forward but he has plenty of attributes to aid a side playing wide of a 3.

You do this a lot with players,you never take into account how a young player can develop.Earlier this season or last season you were saying Mason Mount wasnt very good and only getting in the Chelsea and England side due to his relationship with the manager.More recently it's Declan Rice who isn't very good yet he is being linked with top sides and many many managers,pundits etc talk about him becoming a top player.

It's similar with the Armstrong situation, you saying how we won't have anyone to score goals, players come and go,players step up like Armstrong did when you made the same statements about who is going to score when Dack got injured

[SBlue]

19 minutes ago, arbitro said:

You saying you don't think he's played his best for Chile get kind of supports my point doesn't it? And I would dispute he is a better player now than when he signed for us.

Not sure, maybe I'm misunderstanding you? You said that Chile coaches are getting more out of him than Mowbray, and I disagree because I think he plays better for us.

 

So you've always thought he was decent too then? 😉

Edited June 24, 2021 by S8 & Blue

[Bigdoggsteel]

Plus he scored on his full debut. Huge help for the lad 

[roversfan99]

3 minutes ago, islander200 said:

Why were Forest so adamant that they wouldn't sell before their valuation of 7 million was met?Surely if he was as talentless as you suggest they would have been happy to get him off the books for whatever they could get.

You said in an earlier post that his involvement in the Copa America won't increase his value or attract interest which is nonsense if he continues to perform for them as he has done since the tournament started.You keep mentioning his goal against "lowly " Bolivia like that's the only thing he has done for them.He has played well in both games his running with and without the ball creates a lot of space for his teammates.I agree he will never be a high scoring centre forward but he has plenty of attributes to aid a side playing wide of a 3.

You do this a lot with players,you never take into account how a young player can develop.Earlier this season or last season you were saying Mason Mount wasnt very good and only getting in the Chelsea and England side due to his relationship with the manager.More recently it's Declan Rice who isn't very good yet he is being linked with top sides and many many managers,pundits etc talk about him becoming a top player.

It's similar with the Armstrong situation, you saying how we won't have anyone to score goals, players come and go,players step up like Armstrong did when you made the same statements about who is going to score when Dack got injured

If a players ability is defined by his price tag then there is no such thing is being over or under priced.

I agree that tournament involvement can swell a players price, often unreasonably, how many players have got big money moves on the back of tournaments and failed to justify their price tags? Maybe if Brereton continues to do well and artificially inflate his price tag at Copa America, now would be the best time to sell him? I didnt watch the entirety of both games but I watched the first half of the Uruguay game and a chunk of the Bolivia one, in general he looked at times a little lost but his skillset is so unfamiliar compared to the rest of the technical players that surrounded him that he undoubtedly was a threat.

I totally appreciate that a player as young as Brereton can improve, for 2 years there was no glimmers of potential, this last season he contributed without being anything great but there was improvement and I dont doubt that he can continue to. Your comments about my supposed views of Mount are out of context, I certainly have never said that Mount isnt that good but in my opinion it has been this season that his game has gone onto the next level and he has justified a regular spot at Chelsea ahead of a few very capable alternatives. I even said that I would have selected him in the first 2 games of this tournament over Grealish. My point on Rice is that he is not a top midfielder in my opinion, not one of Europe's elite and against the best midfielders, he is incredibly limited. I have seen him linked with Chelsea for 90m, I would find that very strange and he isnt a patch on Kante and Jorginho. I suppose the fact that he is English, proven in the Premier League and presumably on a long contract all inflate his fee. He is obviously a decent midfielder but I dont think he is anything special.

I agree that obviously Armstrong isnt the only player in world football that could score goals. I said that in all likelihood, if Armstrong moves on, his replacement will not get 28 goals in a season (or even close to, that is such an impressive tally) therefore we will be weaker without him, hardly a controversial viewpoint.

[Bigdoggsteel]

5 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

If a players ability is defined by his price tag then there is no such thing is being over or under priced.

I agree that tournament involvement can swell a players price, often unreasonably, how many players have got big money moves on the back of tournaments and failed to justify their price tags? Maybe if Brereton continues to do well and artificially inflate his price tag at Copa America, now would be the best time to sell him? I didnt watch the entirety of both games but I watched the first half of the Uruguay game and a chunk of the Bolivia one, in general he looked at times a little lost but his skillset is so unfamiliar compared to the rest of the technical players that surrounded him that he undoubtedly was a threat.

I totally appreciate that a player as young as Brereton can improve, for 2 years there was no glimmers of potential, this last season he contributed without being anything great but there was improvement and I dont doubt that he can continue to. Your comments about my supposed views of Mount are out of context, I certainly have never said that Mount isnt that good but in my opinion it has been this season that his game has gone onto the next level and he has justified a regular spot at Chelsea ahead of a few very capable alternatives. I even said that I would have selected him in the first 2 games of this tournament over Grealish. My point on Rice is that he is not a top midfielder in my opinion, not one of Europe's elite and against the best midfielders, he is incredibly limited. I have seen him linked with Chelsea for 90m, I would find that very strange and he isnt a patch on Kante and Jorginho. I suppose the fact that he is English, proven in the Premier League and presumably on a long contract all inflate his fee. He is obviously a decent midfielder but I dont think he is anything special.

I agree that obviously Armstrong isnt the only player in world football that could score goals. I said that in all likelihood, if Armstrong moves on, his replacement will not get 28 goals in a season (or even close to, that is such an impressive tally) therefore we will be weaker without him, hardly a controversial viewpoint.

Not true. Teams have lost players who were their top scorers, only for the overall team results to improve the following season. We don't need a player to individualy score 28 goals next season to improve our league position. 

[roversfan99]

9 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Not true. Teams have lost players who were their top scorers, only for the overall team results to improve the following season. We don't need a player to individualy score 28 goals next season to improve our league position. 

I meant that we will not replace him with an individual that will get such an impressive tally. The idea of buying half a team with the proceeds is a nice one in theory but not only very difficult, based on our previous recruitment, it is unrealistic under the current manager. We are stronger with Armstrong than without him.

[Bigdoggsteel]

2 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I meant that we will not replace him with an individual that will get such an impressive tally. The idea of buying half a team with the proceeds is a nice one in theory but not only very difficult, based on our previous recruitment, it is unrealistic under the current manager. We are stronger with Armstrong than without him.

Under the current manager, yes. 

[arbitro]

2 hours ago, S8 & Blue said:

Not sure, maybe I'm misunderstanding you? You said that Chile coaches are getting more out of him than Mowbray, and I disagree because I think he plays better for us.

 

So you've always thought he was decent too then? 😉

You are misunderstanding me. Given the reviews Chile are getting more out him than Mowbray and his staff have where his form has wavered between mediocre and decent but mainly the former in my view. You clearly think differently which is your prerogative. 

[LordBaltimore]

As an outsider, not someone who has watched Brereton struggle to find the back of the net and his slugging it out even for a starting position for the past few seasons as Rovers, i obviously have a different perspective on BB.  While I don't think he's God or some prodigy, he has something special.  He played well enough as a teen to score goals for the England U-20.  He seemed to play well for Forest and Rovers paid a hefty sum to obtain him.  And he was a dud for 2yrs and showed promise this last season.  Not much bang for your buck.

Beyond what he has or has not done at Rovers, I think some people here under appreciate what he has done since leaving England to train with Chile.  He speaks NO SPANISH (i've seen the tapes).  He is a 100% English player in South America.  Do you know what that means?  English!  He is physical, he runs, long ball, and not very technical. This is completely different to the South American game and to the way Chile and the Chilean players....play.  Plenty of talented South American players flop when they get to England (or Germany, etc..."blond Europe") because they have difficulty adapting to the style of play, their team mates, and/or the local culture (much easier to adapt to Spain or Italy in that respect).  

The footballing winds were not at his back.  And yet he made the final team cut, has gotten on well with his team mates, has somehow adapted well to the style of play, "no le pesa la camiseta" ("the national shirt did not weigh him down"), and he has impressed with what he has done against very talented international sides.  Plenty of Chilean football insiders, privy to what goes on off the pitch in the trainings and with the coaches, have spoken at length about Brereton's footballing attributes and what he can bring to the national team....AND ANY OTHER TEAM provided he has the right coaching.

Chile is not Brazil or France.  Nor is it Scotland or North Macedonia.  For someone like Brereton to have come in from nowhere and made the cut, make first team, become a national sensation and hero in Chile, to be talked about all over Latin America, and now to be seriously scouted by one of the best managers in the world......but but but...he doesn't score for Rovers.

England U 20s.  Chile's starting team.  Scouted by Bielsa.  The problem is Rovers.  Sad to say.

[JacknOry]

5 minutes ago, LordBaltimore said:

As an outsider, not someone who has watched Brereton struggle to find the back of the net and his slugging it out even for a starting position for the past few seasons as Rovers, i obviously have a different perspective on BB.  While I don't think he's God or some prodigy, he has something special.  He played well enough as a teen to score goals for the England U-20.  He seemed to play well for Forest and Rovers paid a hefty sum to obtain him.  And he was a dud for 2yrs and showed promise this last season.  Not much bang for your buck.

Beyond what he has or has not done at Rovers, I think some people here under appreciate what he has done since leaving England to train with Chile.  He speaks NO SPANISH (i've seen the tapes).  He is a 100% English player in South America.  Do you know what that means?  English!  He is physical, he runs, long ball, and not very technical. This is completely different to the South American game and to the way Chile and the Chilean players....play.  Plenty of talented South American players flop when they get to England (or Germany, etc..."blond Europe") because they have difficulty adapting to the style of play, their team mates, and/or the local culture (much easier to adapt to Spain or Italy in that respect).  

The footballing winds were not at his back.  And yet he made the final team cut, has gotten on well with his team mates, has somehow adapted well to the style of play, "no le pesa la camiseta" ("the national shirt did not weigh him down"), and he has impressed with what he has done against very talented international sides.  Plenty of Chilean football insiders, privy to what goes on off the pitch in the trainings and with the coaches, have spoken at length about Brereton's footballing attributes and what he can bring to the national team....AND ANY OTHER TEAM provided he has the right coaching.

Chile is not Brazil or France.  Nor is it Scotland or North Macedonia.  For someone like Brereton to have come in from nowhere and made the cut, make first team, become a national sensation and hero in Chile, to be talked about all over Latin America, and now to be seriously scouted by one of the best managers in the world......but but but...he doesn't score for Rovers.

England U 20s.  Chile's starting team.  Scouted by Bielsa.  The problem is Rovers.  Sad to say.

We dont play long ball. We play it out from the back. 

[tomphil]

3 hours ago, S8 & Blue said:

Disagree. I don't think he's played his best for Chile yet.

And also, if he was/is playing well on the international stage, you really gonna say it's in spite of the club that has had him since 19 years old and made him a better player than when he came in?? 

Better player than when he came in ?

Hardly, everyone was wondering what happened to the kid who'd look decent for Forest playing how many games ? You know the thing that prompted some at Ewood to think it was a good idea to bid against themselves and pay 6/7 million.

It's taken Chile and a different enviroment to finally find him again.  

[Ewood Ace]

17 minutes ago, LordBaltimore said:

Beyond what he has or has not done at Rovers, I think some people here under appreciate what he has done since leaving England to train with Chile.  He speaks NO SPANISH (i've seen the tapes).  He is a 100% English player in South America.  Do you know what that means?  English!  He is physical, he runs, long ball, and not very technical. 

That's a very outdated stereotypical view of the English game. 

17 minutes ago, LordBaltimore said:

 While I don't think he's God or some prodigy, he has something special.  He played well enough as a teen to score goals for the England U-20. 

And Jason Lowe captained England Under 20's at a World Cup.

Edited June 24, 2021 by Ewood Ace

[lraC]

21 hours ago, LordBaltimore said:

And so it begins....Marcelo Bielsa and his Leeds United are looking at BB.  There are sure to be a lot of rumors about Premiere League teams eyeing Brereton.  Bielsa has the ability to work miracles and make his players not only better athletes but better human beings as well.  For BB, nothing would be better than being coached by Bielsa [and for the Chilean national team as well].  Whether it is better for Rovers is another question.  Offloading someone for whom Rovers overpaid and who doesnt seem to fit into Mowbray's system may not be such a bad thing.  But i have a hard time seeing Bb play for Bielsa.  I like the guy vut he's a bit of a stiff [log, as we say in Spanish.].

https://motleedsnews.com/transfers/blackburn-rovers-forward-ben-brereton-on-marcelo-bielsas-radar-as-leeds-united-eye-move/

I’ve got a stiff log thinking about a sale to a premier league club. I can’t see it to be honest though. 

[simongarnerisgod]

id`e sell him in an instant if we can recoup most of what was spent on him,nice lad who tries his heart out,but he`s a long way from even looking the business in the championship let alone the top league

[AllRoverAsia]

All a bit South Sea Bubble.

I'll be up watching but haven't quite got caught up in the mass hysteria.

What's the Chilean reaction to missing the target from a few yards out, actually missing the corner flag to be accurate.

Still ride the wave Ben and good luck and if Mowbray can get the money back from Bielsa maybe that statue can be ordered, as long as its paper mache and it rains on unveiling day.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

5 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Not true. Teams have lost players who were their top scorers, only for the overall team results to improve the following season. We don't need a player to individualy score 28 goals next season to improve our league position. 

We need to share the goals around the team more to be honest, something we’ve never done under Mowbray.

[Madon]

Ben and Chile have had a bit of a stinker in the first half and he has picked up a yellow card. Can see him being dragged off shortly into the second half. 

 

[bigbrandjohn]

Brereton is running the channels in the second half but nobody is passing to him. 

[LordBaltimore]

Terrible game by Chile, deserving their 2-0 loss to Paraguay.  The consensus is that it was the worst game Chile have had in years and certainly in the Lasarte era.  The team couldnt string together 3 passes.  Neither BB or Vargas saw much of the ball but at least Ben Diez got his first yellow card.  Brazil looms in the 2nd round one way or another.  Chile had injuries but that doesnt explain the forgettable display. 

The team has a bye for the last first round game and does not play again for another 9 days.  Due to the horrible training grounds & medical facilities in Brazil, the team will train back in Santiago until 48hrs before their 2nd round game.

Edited June 25, 2021 by LordBaltimore

[PotterLog]

2 hours ago, LordBaltimore said:

Terrible game by Chile, deserving their 2-0 loss to Paraguay.  The consensus is that it was the worst game Chile have had in years and certainly in the Lasarte era.  The team couldnt string together 3 passes.  Neither BB or Vargas saw much of the ball but at least Ben Diez got his first yellow card.  Brazil looms in the 2nd round one way or another.  Chile had injuries but that doesnt explain the forgettable display. 

The team has a bye for the last first round game and does not play again for another 9 days.  Due to the horrible training grounds & medical facilities in Brazil, the team will train back in Santiago until 48hrs before their 2nd round game.

 

 

1st rule of Chilean football: no matter the era or the quality of the selección, you will always get done by a header from a corner by fukin Paraguay

[yellowsubmarine]

2 hours ago, LordBaltimore said:

The team has a bye for the last first round game and does not play again for another 9 days.  Due to the horrible training grounds & medical facilities in Brazil, the team will train back in Santiago until 48hrs before their 2nd round game.

Wow, when will Brereton be back for us then? Wont he be burnt out. Doubt we will see him much for pre-season or even the first month of the season?

[PotterLog]

4 minutes ago, yellowsubmarine said:

Wow, when will Brereton be back for us then? Wont he be burnt out. Doubt we will see him much for pre-season or even the first month of the season?

 

There's a month between the CA final and the start of the Champo. And anyway if they have Brazil next round as seems likely, he'll be home a lot earlier 😉