Derby vs Rovers post match thread

[Fraserkirky]

22 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

Question on this - how would 4411 be much different to 4231? Don't really see it? 

Same issues you have highlighted persist - defensive midfielders and defensive fullbacks?

Both Left and Right Midfielders would be deeper and can cover easier for a centre mid or full backs to get forward.

You would use Bennett deeper on the right flank and since he can’t beat anyone anyway, he is completely useless at right wing. He is closer to the middle of the pitch where he can do the dirty work that he excels at. Nyambe would be able to overlap easier, and Bennett would also be able to cover inside allowing Reed or Evans to get forward. David Beckham was never a right winger but a world class Right Midfielder, there is a big difference.

Dack can switch flanks easier without getting in the way.  He is really a false nine here, with a free role.

Anyone of the midfield can break forward. In the current 4-2-3-1, you know Smallwood and Evans ain’t leaving the centre circle.

Edited September 18, 2018 by Fraserkirky

[Fraserkirky]

Kudos to the person that created the MOM poll, that Harrison is some player.

[blueboy3333]

It's a good job Derby didn't have a striker like Simon Garner! I thought their midfield was excellent but they lacked any real presence up front. That Mason Mount is a terrific player.

That said I thought we defended heroically. The back four were immense bar Bell who I thought was appalling first half, constantly giving the ball away or being caught in possession. He improved 2nd half but still gave the ball away in dangerous positions. Williams had the same problem but bar one error I thought he was good at the back.  Nyambe and Lenny are just monsters and worth their weight in gold. A couple of great stops by Raya but he is a liability. How he didn't give 3 goals away is a mystery. 

We were just outclassed in midfield. Smallwood works like a trojan and protected the defence well at times but he has limited ability on the ball. Evans I thought was pretty anonymous and is meant to be the one who can pass it in there. It didn't help that they were dealing with 3 attacking midfielders between them at times who were good at closing us down. Evans and Smallwood though are just fire fighters. It's up to the four ahead of them to create and do the attacking. That's where the problems lie. 

Felt a bit sorry for Conway. He was off the pace but what a game to give him his first start in! He was sacrificed for Graham because Armstrong wasn't up to it. 

Palmer should be touring the world doing a freestyle show. I bet he's amazing. Liability on the pitch mind. Another who kept giving the ball away. He's not a winger. 

Armstrong is just shyte. Loses the ball every time he gets it and offers nothing to the team. Again though I don't totally blame him. The team is not set up to play to his strengths. Besides Dack (who was quiet) there's nobody in the team that can play him in. He's a striker that runs in behind. We struggle to pass it ten yards so there's no chance of playing him in. No idea what they do in training but passing it to each other and retaining possession doesn't seem top of the list. 

Tonight showed what we miss when Bennett and Graham aren't playing. Proper players. They don't do rabonas though so they aren't rated by some. 

Brilliant point all in all. We aren't a great side by any stretch but there are some real warriors in the team. 

 

[blueboy3333]

17 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

We're also drawing far too many games.

There were a lot of draws when he took over in the Championship from Coyle. He's very cautious so the safety first approach is more likely to yield draws. He sets out to not lose rather than win. Still, it could be worse, we could be getting smashed every week like PNE. 

[SBlue]

Just back after a late beer to recover from the run to the train station...

 

That’s a hell of a point. To play that badly without many of our first choices, against a very good, technical team reacting from a bad loss... 

and to get away with a point, nearly nicking all three with the Dack chance.

Phew. 

Some individual performances to forget but cant help but be happy really.

 

Edited September 19, 2018 by S8 & Blue

[@roverseas]

Urgh! Painful yet we grab a point.  Didnt deserve it to be honest, but I will take it gladly.  Plus points, Harrison Reed should give Mowbray some food for thought for Stoke City.  Hear words of wisdom from the gaffa, also we get some reaction from Derby County supporter and Steve Bloomers Washing Podcast host Chris Parsons and Rovers supporter Rob Young. 

 

[Bbrovers2288]

Weird feeling as I would have snapped your hand off before the game with a point at Derby but the game left me feeling a little uneasy about season ahead. Far too many questions than answers at the moment. 

Armstrong looks a little lost and doesn’t seem to be able to handle the physicality of the champ, fear this is a signing that’s going to amount to not very much. Unfortunately we are mainly a long ball team with a little bit of slow build up attacks , he would suit a counter attacking fast break team which we are not. 

Palmer doesn’t look a team play and is more interested in getting on soccer a.m. with a moment of showboating. Think we got the poor Chelsea loanee when you look at moult. 

Too many of our defence have a mistake waiting to happen, lenihan has went from a solid cb to a bit of a bombscare this year, raya gives me shivers at times, Mulgrew is someone I like but he also has lapses of concentration. Would liked to have seen us use our money on a leader at the back. Which leads me onto where the money was spent.

we have spent 6 mill on a lad who so far looks clumsy. There was strikers available who would have came in and hit the ground running. I don’t trust Brereton to do anything when he is on. I get that we are signing potential, but for a team just promoted, trying to consolidate its a massive gamble which looks like we are relying on our 33 year old warhorse to see us through the season. 

Midfield, I have been very critical of evans in the past but iv been really impressed this season so give him a decent partner and I’m willing to start afresh with him. Smallwood- not for me. Runs about like a headless chicken. Sprays balls that are usually out of play or to the opposition. Wasn’t the worst tonight but no quality on set plays or open play. 

Conway, thanks but that’s you tonight. I watched a program about g Neville and he had a shocker and was subbed and he just knew it was time up, hoping Conway feels the same tonight. I didn’t want him to get a new contract and it’s been proven why. 

So yea, happy with the result but not the performance which concerned me 

[philipl]

Watched it in the wee small hours here in China. Lenihan was immense in my view.

Looks like the long winning runs of last season are going to be long drawing runs this season...

We need to be extremely clinical taking the chances we make. 

By the way, Armstrong was a penalty bu had it been given, I bet we'd have reached half time 3-1 down...

Grateful for the point and looking forward to the next game.

 

 

[JacknOry]

7 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Sounds like Armstrong is getting off lightly compared to say Smallwood when it comes to players being criticized about not stepping up. Take the Carlisle game out of it and he has been pretty poor.

But seriously though, how the fook does Rothwell go from being our most exciting new signing, to not even being brought off the bench? We obviously dont see training, but it seems bizzare. 

Have to admit that since signing permanently he has not been much cop. By all accounts he was pretty poor at Bolton the last time he was in the Championship too, so perhaps this is one step too far for him? I do hope he can continue to develop and become a good player at this level. 

The thing about him is that he has pace and can finish but I do not see much else about him. Does not have a trick or too up his sleeve to beat a man like Dack or Palmer does - if he did he would be twice the player.

[Hasta]

Only saw the second half and it's amazing how not witnessing the first half changes your opinion. In isolation, the second half was pretty even with both teams having half chances and Rovers coming into it thenlonger it went on. The commitment and effort was outstanding and II thought all the back line looked good, it was the inability of the midfield to hold and keep possession which bothered me. Also, apart from one Smallwood delivery from the right, set pieces were pretty terribly taken. Just on the 2nd half it was a deserved point.

However from commentary, comments and stats it looks like I missed such an atrocious first half performance that it slants the view of the whole 90 minutes for those who saw it.

Edited September 19, 2018 by Hasta

[Stuart]

6 hours ago, Husky said:

After our season so far, I'm not quite sure whether to think we should be pleased that we are normally 'hard to beat' or go the other way and think that we find it too difficult to win and are already drawing too many.

After 8 games and only one defeat we have a -1 goal difference. We are playing a very cautious style of football with Smallwood and Evans still the preferred midfield.

Last night’s point will probably mean there is more chance of them both continuing there.

If you extrapolate our current form over the season we’ll be on 63 points. That’ll see us firmly in 11th or 12th place. Great for a newly promoted side looking to consolidate but it won’t get bums on seats and it may not be enough to keep hold of Dack. It also looks to be a waste of the resources we have (Rothwell, Reed, Bennett would be replacements for Smallwood right now). However, with Mulgrew being out last night (and having to play a full back centrally through poor recruitment in defence) I can see why Mowbray might have played the gruesome twosome but I would also hope he’ll be a little more ambitious in future games.

[donnermeat]

6 hours ago, Fraserkirky said:

Kudos to the person that created the MOM poll, that Harrison is some player.

Think that could have something to do with the commentator repeatedly calling him Harrison instead of Reed. 

And it's his bloody job to know about players! 

[Bigdoggsteel]

7 hours ago, blueboy3333 said:

It's a good job Derby didn't have a striker like Simon Garner! I thought their midfield was excellent but they lacked any real presence up front. That Mason Mount is a terrific player.

That said I thought we defended heroically. The back four were immense bar Bell who I thought was appalling first half, constantly giving the ball away or being caught in possession. He improved 2nd half but still gave the ball away in dangerous positions. Williams had the same problem but bar one error I thought he was good at the back.  Nyambe and Lenny are just monsters and worth their weight in gold. A couple of great stops by Raya but he is a liability. How he didn't give 3 goals away is a mystery. 

We were just outclassed in midfield. Smallwood works like a trojan and protected the defence well at times but he has limited ability on the ball. Evans I thought was pretty anonymous and is meant to be the one who can pass it in there. It didn't help that they were dealing with 3 attacking midfielders between them at times who were good at closing us down. Evans and Smallwood though are just fire fighters. It's up to the four ahead of them to create and do the attacking. That's where the problems lie. 

Felt a bit sorry for Conway. He was off the pace but what a game to give him his first start in! He was sacrificed for Graham because Armstrong wasn't up to it. 

Palmer should be touring the world doing a freestyle show. I bet he's amazing. Liability on the pitch mind. Another who kept giving the ball away. He's not a winger. 

Armstrong is just shyte. Loses the ball every time he gets it and offers nothing to the team. Again though I don't totally blame him. The team is not set up to play to his strengths. Besides Dack (who was quiet) there's nobody in the team that can play him in. He's a striker that runs in behind. We struggle to pass it ten yards so there's no chance of playing him in. No idea what they do in training but passing it to each other and retaining possession doesn't seem top of the list. 

Tonight showed what we miss when Bennett and Graham aren't playing. Proper players. They don't do rabonas though so they aren't rated by some. 

Brilliant point all in all. We aren't a great side by any stretch but there are some real warriors in the team. 

 

 

Edited September 19, 2018 by Bigdoggsteel
Replied to wrong poster. Half asleep

[magicalmortensleftpeg]

Armstrong played no better in the latter part of his time here on loan. Lots of running but doesn’t actually pose a threat.

Don’t know what Rothwell has to do to get a game. Real shame he hasn’t been involved since the international break. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

4 hours ago, Bbrovers2288 said:

Weird feeling as I would have snapped your hand off before the game with a point at Derby but the game left me feeling a little uneasy about season ahead. Far too many questions than answers at the moment. 

Armstrong looks a little lost and doesn’t seem to be able to handle the physicality of the champ, fear this is a signing that’s going to amount to not very much. Unfortunately we are mainly a long ball team with a little bit of slow build up attacks , he would suit a counter attacking fast break team which we are not. 

Palmer doesn’t look a team play and is more interested in getting on soccer a.m. with a moment of showboating. Think we got the poor Chelsea loanee when you look at moult. 

Too many of our defence have a mistake waiting to happen, lenihan has went from a solid cb to a bit of a bombscare this year, raya gives me shivers at times, Mulgrew is someone I like but he also has lapses of concentration. Would liked to have seen us use our money on a leader at the back. Which leads me onto where the money was spent.

we have spent 6 mill on a lad who so far looks clumsy. There was strikers available who would have came in and hit the ground running. I don’t trust Brereton to do anything when he is on. I get that we are signing potential, but for a team just promoted, trying to consolidate its a massive gamble which looks like we are relying on our 33 year old warhorse to see us through the season. 

Midfield, I have been very critical of evans in the past but iv been really impressed this season so give him a decent partner and I’m willing to start afresh with him. Smallwood- not for me. Runs about like a headless chicken. Sprays balls that are usually out of play or to the opposition. Wasn’t the worst tonight but no quality on set plays or open play. 

Conway, thanks but that’s you tonight. I watched a program about g Neville and he had a shocker and was subbed and he just knew it was time up, hoping Conway feels the same tonight. I didn’t want him to get a new contract and it’s been proven why. 

So yea, happy with the result but not the performance which concerned me 

Some fair points, but I think your assessment of Brereton is harsh, considering it's based off what, 30 minutes of game time? On the wing to boot. 

Tony made some good comment s after the game. He is a very practical manager. Practical, cautious... He will get us points over a season though where others wouldn't. His starting line up, the bad... His quickness of thought to change things, the good... 

[Dreams of 1995]

I was surprised to see Palmer back in the squad. Honestly expected Rothwell to be played out there. Palmer and Armstrong need to show more for me than they currently are. Palmer is a good player and has been involved in squads who have reached the play offs in successive seasons but you get the impression he hasn't fully settled here.

You have to imagine Reed gets a start soon. He always looks tidy when he comes on.

It was a pretty poor performance. Never really got going. Derby had quality in midfield that we couldn't match. Lucky to come away with the draw really but have to improve in the future.

Good start to the season though. A couple of wins and we are looking healthy. Games like last night really show the importance of hanging onto leads when we have them.

[davulsukur]

9 hours ago, Atko's Engine said:

Bizarre how some posters have Smallwood as MOTM, others say how he was worst player on the pitch.  How can that be?? I guess the truth is somewhere in between. I like him, though his abilities are limited. He can do a spoiling job in this type of game.

The real plus from all this is that we have Mulgrew, Rodwell, Rothwell, Reed, Davenport, Brereton all to return or start in future games, options a plenty there. They'll all get their chances in a tough, long season and will all most likely contribute to better performances against lesser opposition as the season builds as will Armstrong, Dack & Palmer who by all accounts were fairly anonymous tonight.

 

No way on earth he was MOTM. Like many who started the game, he was poor.

His passing was abysmal and at one point. he tried to pass to a defender but instead just passed it straight to a Derby player, who charged straight at our defence setting up another Derby attack.

He'll always put the boot in and throw his body on the line but he just doesn't have the quality needed at this level, certainly against the better teams. Also, surely we have a better set piece taker in the team? (in Charlies absence)

Raya's performance has also set alarm bells ringing, erratic decision making and woeful distribution. He's a great shot stopper but he really needs to improve.

[MarkBRFC]

Don't get me wrong i'll take the point and move on.

If we turn up against Stoke on Saturday like that though, then we could be the side to really get there season going.

[Uddersfelt Blue]

Lots of doom and gloom around which given the performance last night is understandable.

However, rather than criticise individual players I think TM must take a lot of the blame for not picking his best team. I believe he thought we would lose that game so chucked a couple in to give them a run out. Conway and Palmer should have been on the bench with Rothwell and Reed starting. 

The formula up front doesn’t seem to work without Graham so we need to be looking at someone else to play that role. Unsure if Brereton is that player but give him a chance rather than sticking him out wide.

Still work in progress but TM needs to avoid tinkering too much with his selections just to give players game time.

[Neal]

On Armstrong, although he got a fair amount of goals last year, we still have to remember it was out of position, the lad is an out and out centre forward but we aren't going to see the best of him unless we play to his strengths. Its also worth remembering that he's still only 21 so we need to be patient with him to  adapt to his surroundings and a higher level of  playing. 

 

I predict that we'll see Reed as a regular for us soon and that we'll be doing everything to make it permenant at the end of the season. He looks to be a step up from what we have currently, I think deep down Tony will know this and he will suit his long term plans more than Smallwood.

 

Get Rothwell in, we need someone who can dictate play, we have the graft in centre mid but we need more quality. I feel for him really because every time I've watched him he's been MOM, I just hope this hasn't knocked his confidence. 

 

If Tony wants to play more possession based football as he recently discussed then we're going to need our better players on the pitch.

 

That said, I can't believe Conway was picked, the lad should only be playing for us in early stage cup games, maybe a late sub appearance here and there when we have injuries. Starting away at Derby though? Nah, time has gone for that and I'm just glad that Mowbray changed it and has probably come to the same realisation as us.

 

Solid point though, I'll take it.

[robbojohnno]

First half I don't know how we survived. The team selection was wrong but thankfully it was rectified and the 2nd half was more even and competitive. The 2 deep lying central midfielders don't seem to have the ability to play football but are purely there to be solid, organised and break up play. I think this needs to change and Reed appears to have more of an all-round game. Also the omission of Rothwell is a mystery when you compare his performances to the likes of Armstrong and Palmer.

[arbitro]

On balance it's a really good point but for the first time this season the negatives outweigh the positives in my opinion. Mowbray got it wrong with his selection and tactics in the first half when we just couldn't get up the field. Conway is a waste of a squad place and we are paying a lot of money for that. I can't remember the last time I saw a tactical change so early in the game but it was needed. But perhaps the most disappointing aspect for me was how cheaply we gave the ball away with almost every player at some stage being guilty of this. We got away with it but on another day we would be punished.

On the plus side Nyambe continued his good form and was our best player by some distance I felt. The last ditch defending was dogged and committed.

Mowbray will have to seriously consider the starting line up and how we will play against Stoke on Saturday as a repeat of last nights first half could see us out of it by half time.

[Parsonblue]

A hard earned point against a team who I would expect to be challenging for the play-offs.  We rode our luck a little in the first half but looked increasingly more comfortable as the second half progressed - Derby seemed to run out of ideas of how to break us down.  Defensively we were too deep in the first half but in the second Mowbray got them further up the field and we looked much better.  I thought Evans and Smallwood did an excellent job in front of the back four making tackles and closing the spaces that Derby would want to operate in.  I can fully understand why Mowbray has these two as automatic choices as they have the experience and disciple to do the required job - I'm not sure some of the younger players, as one would expect, have the necessary disciple to do that.  

I think this game showed how important Danny Graham is to the team - Armstrong simply looked lost through the middle, whereas Graham knows how to unsettle defenders whilst holding onto the ball and bringing others into the game.  Similarly, we also need Bennett's energy in the team and we looked so much better with these two on the pitch.

I thought there were several very good performances with Raya and Nyambe being the pick.  On the downside, Conway struggled to get into the game before being withdrawn, presumably for tactical reasons, and Armstrong offered very little - either in the centre or on the wing.  I also find Bell to be frustrating.  For an attacking full-back he rarely beats a man and defensively looks all over the place at times.  

I think this game showed why Mowbray talks about needing another three or four transfer windows to complete the rebuilding job.  Our team spirit got us through last night but we are still short of quality in one or two areas of the field.  Nonetheless, it's another point and for a newly promoted team we continue to look more than capable of securing a mid-table berth come the end of the season - which would be a really great effort.  

[Torgeir]

Wrong lineup for me. How Conway gets to start with the squad we currently have is a big mystery for me. Supposed to be experienced but seen him do silly things deep into his own half way too many times. Tbh Bennett and Graham should have been on from the start, but at least Mowbray recognised the signs early enough.

Dack could have snatched it though, and Armstrong should have had a penalty, but all in all we were very lucky to avoid defeat in this one. 

I voted Smallwood as it was the best I've seen him this season, and put a real shift in as we always expect him to.

[dinglebasher]

I think last night was a good example of what Mowbray is trying to do here, and I agree with his approach. 

The first priority should be to avoid defeat. We didn’t defend well as a team last night, mainly because midfield had an off day and couldn’t keep hold of anything, and Armstrong can’t do that either. But in and around the box we defended superbly. 

It reminds me of when Hughes took over - he also prioritised making sure we didn’t lose. Once the team developed that discipline and got used to being absolutely stubborn, that’s when he focussed on our attacking threat and we became a great team. 

Last season we didn’t have to have that discipline (and conceded a lot as a result) because it was so much easier to score, but if we carried on like that in the Championship we’d be bottom three. 

Fact is, we’ve lost one game after some tough fixtures, and no one will fancy playing us. With a little luck we could easily have had more points and aside from Bristol City last twenty, we’ve held our own against everyone.