Rovers vs Forest

[OJRovers]

Just now, bluebruce said:

It's one thing, anyway, to say wingers are dead (don't buy it but hey). It's another thing to perpetually play people there who were never brought up to play in that whole area of the pitch. If you don't want the blood and thunder winger style fine, but you at least get specialists at whatever you DO want to play there.

I'd agree with this. Mowbray obviously doesn't want to play proper 'wingers' who get to the line and cross it in, we haven't got any in the squad. We do play 2 wide midfielders who play narrow.

The players that have played there this season are numerous: Palmer, Conway, Bennett, Reed, Rothwell, Armstrong, Brereton, Samual. None of these are what you would call a specialist in that area. I think the closest we've had recently was Antonsson. 

The system works ok when we want to be defensive, but if Dack/Graham are neutralised or injured then we struggle to create chances (Derby game).

It is a mystery to me why we haven't recruited specialist players for those 2 key positions in the team.

[Bigdoggsteel]

5 minutes ago, OJRovers said:

I'd agree with this. Mowbray obviously doesn't want to play proper 'wingers' who get to the line and cross it in, we haven't got any in the squad. We do play 2 wide midfielders who play narrow.

The players that have played there this season are numerous: Palmer, Conway, Bennett, Reed, Rothwell, Armstrong, Brereton, Samual. None of these are what you would call a specialist in that area. I think the closest we've had recently was Antonsson. 

The system works ok when we want to be defensive, but if Dack/Graham are neutralised or injured then we struggle to create chances (Derby game).

It is a mystery to me why we haven't recruited specialist players for those 2 key positions in the team.

It's not that big a mystery. We have a good squad, finding players to improve us, in our budget is a challenge. No point signing players for the sake of it 

[islander200]

What's the latest on Nyambe?Be interesting to see who he play's rb midweek.Id probably pluck for Bennett.

Armstrong played ok when he came on but id be tempted to start Rothwell and leave Armstrong as an option from the bench as i think what he can offer at the moment is more of an asset at the later stages of the game.

Sheff united be a tough game but if we do have aspirations of being in the mix for play offs we need to start picking up 3 points at home

Rovers 2-1 Graham,Dack

[roversfan99]

23 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

It's not that big a mystery. We have a good squad, finding players to improve us, in our budget is a challenge. No point signing players for the sake of it 

Dont really understand this post. Are you saying direct wingers are harder to find than other positions? How would a winger be signing players for the sake of it?

[rigger]

6 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Dont really understand this post. Are you saying direct wingers are harder to find than other positions? How would a winger be signing players for the sake of it?

Because the manager does not like playing with out and out wingers as we do not have the threat that would benefit from their crosses.

[roversfan99]

7 minutes ago, rigger said:

Because the manager does not like playing with out and out wingers as we do not have the threat that would benefit from their crosses.

But like I said, a winger doesnt have to solely whip high crosses into a big striker.

Just someone who can stretch the play whilst running at his full back. @Bigdoggsteel post confused me in saying no point signing players for the sake of it, but a natural winger would be a very useful tool.

[rigger]

3 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

But like I said, a winger doesnt have to solely whip high crosses into a big striker.

Just someone who can stretch the play whilst running at his full back. @Bigdoggsteel post confused me in saying no point signing players for the sake of it, but a natural winger would be a very useful tool.

You just have to get your head round the fact that TM doesn't like setting a team up with wingers. As he picks the team, it is his prerogative. Don't expect wingers anytime soon, our pressing midfield game does not allow for them.

[roversfan99]

40 minutes ago, rigger said:

You just have to get your head round the fact that TM doesn't like setting a team up with wingers. As he picks the team, it is his prerogative. Don't expect wingers anytime soon, our pressing midfield game does not allow for them.

Obviously its his prerogative but it doesnt mean that we cant have our own opinions. 

[JBiz]

21 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Obviously its his prerogative but it doesnt mean that we cant have our own opinions. 

But your own opinion should surely take into account we’ve never set up to leave two wide attackers, or two unprotected full backs!

I agree with you that my own priority would’ve been some wide pace and delivery, but when TM introduces a “poacher” out wide who then plays a couple of great passes, a few great runs, a fantastic cross/finish - you can surely accept that that TMs subjective choices are working to some extent!

[roversfan99]

24 minutes ago, Biz said:

But your own opinion should surely take into account we’ve never set up to leave two wide attackers, or two unprotected full backs!

I agree with you that my own priority would’ve been some wide pace and delivery, but when TM introduces a “poacher” out wide who then plays a couple of great passes, a few great runs, a fantastic cross/finish - you can surely accept that that TMs subjective choices are working to some extent!

I think we could fit a natural winger into Mowbrays current theory of having 2.5 forwards. He could be on one side and we could still have Reed or Bennett on the other. We have played 1.5 (as Mowbray would say) forwards in the last 2 games albeit I think yesterday Reed and Bennett had earnt a start from the Stoke game.

Would a winger leave us more exposed than having Armstrong, Palmer, Rothwell or Brereton wide? Not for me.

Even if its just to have the winger as an option. We made 7 signings in the summer, I just feel that to have that extra bit of balance, we could have sacrificied one of the 3 central midfielders for a centre back, and a proper winger instead of Palmer or Rothwell, although I do rate both as individuals.

[chaddyrovers]

3 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

 

He also mentioned that we should be looking at what we are doing to rectify these points being lost rather than writing it all off solely onto referees, as seems to be the most popular and convenient method. Yes they are poor but for all of @chaddyrovers ideas about spending multi millions on them, they arent going to change any time soon. Lets look at both what we are doing well, ie plenty, and also what we can do to do even better, and try to knock the conspiracy that our main downfall is referees always being against us on the head.

Its a popular myth that wingers have no place in the modern game.

Yesterday, we faced Lolley and Cash who gave our full backs a hard time, and they also brought Dias on, another winger. In recent times, we have played Stoke who had Tom Ince who scored, Derby have Jozefzoon and Harry Wilson, 2 very effective wingers at this level, and Gwion Edwards of Ipswich and Eliasson at Bristol City are 2 wingers that have caused us major problems this season already.

I have provided a list of wingers in the Championship a few weeks a go and it was a very long list.

Even if a wingers role is not necessarily to float crosses in to 2 target men, and whether the winger is on his weak or strong foot, a good winger has as much of a role to play now as they ever have.

Yes Refs are poor but lets ignore that fact and lets not try to improve them. They have been poor for a number of years and nobody has done a damn thing about it. No wonder FIFA didn't want our refs are they are poor. 

On Wingers debate, another one we have all discuss to death, we know Mowbray views on it. When I was growing up players like Wilcox, Ripley, Gillespie, Giggs were wingers who stretch the pitch and kept wide. Modern days its very rare to see this. I have to say Players like Wilson aren't wingers In my opinion. A winger is someone who stay wide and put cross after cross in. 

2 hours ago, OJRovers said:

I'd agree with this. Mowbray obviously doesn't want to play proper 'wingers' who get to the line and cross it in, we haven't got any in the squad. We do play 2 wide midfielders who play narrow.

The players that have played there this season are numerous: Palmer, Conway, Bennett, Reed, Rothwell, Armstrong, Brereton, Samual. None of these are what you would call a specialist in that area. I think the closest we've had recently was Antonsson. 

The system works ok when we want to be defensive, but if Dack/Graham are neutralised or injured then we struggle to create chances (Derby game).

It is a mystery to me why we haven't recruited specialist players for those 2 key positions in the team.

Bennett was a winger in young days but has develop into a wide midfielders who does a good job in terms of attacking and defensive. Rothwell is a wide midfielder but not a winger. 

Mowbray wanted Chapman didn't he but Pulis kept him waiting all summer for him. 

2 hours ago, islander200 said:

What's the latest on Nyambe?Be interesting to see who he play's rb midweek.Id probably pluck for Bennett.

Armstrong played ok when he came on but id be tempted to start Rothwell and leave Armstrong as an option from the bench as i think what he can offer at the moment is more of an asset at the later stages of the game.

Sheff united be a tough game but if we do have aspirations of being in the mix for play offs we need to start picking up 3 points at home

Rovers 2-1 Graham,Dack

my team for Sheffield United game is 

Raya; Bennett, Lenihan, Mulgrew, Bell; Armstrong, Reed, Smallwood, Rothwell; Dack; Graham

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

But like I said, a winger doesnt have to solely whip high crosses into a big striker.

Just someone who can stretch the play whilst running at his full back. @Bigdoggsteel post confused me in saying no point signing players for the sake of it, but a natural winger would be a very useful tool.

Haven't we all discuss this all before. 

Mowbray has explained how he played 4-2-3-1 formation a number of times in detail whether its a Rovers fans forum or BBC Lancashire. why keep going over it. He prefer a Bennett on one wing and Armstrong/Palmer/ Rothwell on the other with Dack and Graham in their roles. At Stoke he went abit more solid with Reed and Bennett wide cos of the 1st half at Derby when we where wide open. 

 

[chaddyrovers]

9 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I think we could fit a natural winger into Mowbrays current theory of having 2.5 forwards. He could be on one side and we could still have Reed or Bennett on the other. We have played 1.5 (as Mowbray would say) forwards in the last 2 games albeit I think yesterday Reed and Bennett had earnt a start from the Stoke game.

Would a winger leave us more exposed than having Armstrong, Palmer, Rothwell or Brereton wide? Not for me.

Even if its just to have the winger as an option. We made 7 signings in the summer, I just feel that to have that extra bit of balance, we could have sacrificied one of the 3 central midfielders for a centre back, and a proper winger instead of Palmer or Rothwell, although I do rate both as individuals.

Mowbray wanted Chapman but Pulis was Pulis and kept him. 

in centre midfield we are now strong with Evans, Smallwood, Reed, Davenport(who I looking forward to seeing), Rodwell and also Bennett and Travis. We are very well stock there and its been a weakest for a well. In January I would be looking for 3 signings, A back up keeper, centre back and winger

[roversfan99]

10 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Yes Refs are poor but lets ignore that fact and lets not try to improve them. They have been poor for a number of years and nobody has done a damn thing about it. No wonder FIFA didn't want our refs are they are poor. 

On Wingers debate, another one we have all discuss to death, we know Mowbray views on it. When I was growing up players like Wilcox, Ripley, Gillespie, Giggs were wingers who stretch the pitch and kept wide. Modern days its very rare to see this. I have to say Players like Wilson aren't wingers In my opinion. A winger is someone who stay wide and put cross after cross in. 

Bennett was a winger in young days but has develop into a wide midfielders who does a good job in terms of attacking and defensive. Rothwell is a wide midfielder but not a winger. 

Mowbray wanted Chapman didn't he but Pulis kept him waiting all summer for him. 

my team for Sheffield United game is 

Raya; Bennett, Lenihan, Mulgrew, Bell; Armstrong, Reed, Smallwood, Rothwell; Dack; Graham

Haven't we all discuss this all before. 

Mowbray has explained how he played 4-2-3-1 formation a number of times in detail whether its a Rovers fans forum or BBC Lancashire. why keep going over it. He prefer a Bennett on one wing and Armstrong/Palmer/ Rothwell on the other with Dack and Graham in their roles. At Stoke he went abit more solid with Reed and Bennett wide cos of the 1st half at Derby when we where wide open. 

 

Theres no point having an argument of why even say it because we know what Mowbray thinks and thats final. May as well shut down the messageboard with that kind of attitude.

Wingers still exist, some of whom play on their natural side and stretch the play, ie Jozefzoon and Lolley, some of whom come inside like Ince. There are plenty of wingers about no matter how many times that you compare them to the good old days ans imply that they arent. I never said a winger like we had in 95 that get crosses in to big strikers. Just a wide man who goes on the outside and stretches the play. Mowbrays failed pursuit of Chapman gives me hope that the door isnt closed on that sort of signing in the future.

I know the referees are poor but theres no quick fix and its beyond Rovers control and we should look to fix the things we can control first. Agreed with your team bar Evans for Rothwell.

[Bigdoggsteel]

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Dont really understand this post. Are you saying direct wingers are harder to find than other positions? How would a winger be signing players for the sake of it?

I'm saying good ones are hard to find and that there is no point signing someone who won't improve us. 

Queue the "well I don't know who we should sign, I'm not a manager, scout etc  post. No, you're not, but it's easy to say we should have signed X player, without backing it up with a realistic name 

Someone like Chapman would be handy to have, but he wouldn't give us the all round effectiveness of Bennett and Reed 

Edited September 30, 2018 by Bigdoggsteel

[JBiz]

36 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I think we could fit a natural winger into Mowbrays current theory of having 2.5 forwards. He could be on one side and we could still have Reed or Bennett on the other. We have played 1.5 (as Mowbray would say) forwards in the last 2 games albeit I think yesterday Reed and Bennett had earnt a start from the Stoke game.

Would a winger leave us more exposed than having Armstrong, Palmer, Rothwell or Brereton wide? Not for me.

Even if its just to have the winger as an option. We made 7 signings in the summer, I just feel that to have that extra bit of balance, we could have sacrificied one of the 3 central midfielders for a centre back, and a proper winger instead of Palmer or Rothwell, although I do rate both as individuals.

I agree.

To digress a little, I think it’s obvious we tried for chapman and Freeman and I think we will add someone like the aforementioned soon enough.

I personally think Harrison Reed is actually fair effective out wide. I like his energy. Especially away: like a ginger Bennett....

[roversfan99]

16 minutes ago, Biz said:

I agree.

To digress a little, I think it’s obvious we tried for chapman and Freeman and I think we will add someone like the aforementioned soon enough.

I personally think Harrison Reed is actually fair effective out wide. I like his energy. Especially away: like a ginger Bennett....

Agreed but I wouldnt really suggest that both him and Bennett on either side will provide us with enough going forward over an extended period of time.

It does however gives us another option as a better alternative to Conway as a defensive winger, especially with both often potentially being needed centrally or at right back throughout the season. Its a good little bonus.

Sounds bad, but I think Nyambe's injury may ease a potential dilemma for Mowbray on Wednesday. Moving one of the 2, presumably Bennett to right back will then free up a space on one of the sides for either Armstrong, Palmer or Rothwell, presumably the former, giving us more individuality.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

Agreed but I wouldnt really suggest that both him and Bennett on either side will provide us with enough going forward over an extended period of time.

It does however gives us another option as a better alternative to Conway as a defensive winger, especially with both often potentially being needed centrally or at right back throughout the season. Its a good little bonus.

Sounds bad, but I think Nyambe's injury may ease a potential dilemma for Mowbray on Wednesday. Moving one of the 2, presumably Bennett to right back will then free up a space on one of the sides for either Armstrong, Palmer or Rothwell, presumably the former, giving us more individuality.

Ya and having Armstrong or Palmer there will mean the full back will have less protection. I think you are under selling how much Bennett and Reed have offered in attack this season. Both have goals and assists and Bennett is constantly on the highlight reel for spraying passes around. This infatuation some fans have with us needing a "winger" is confusing me a little. Is it the pace we need? Because having Chapman for example would leave us lighter defensively and if he isn't getting his way in an attacking sense, his all round game it well below what Bennett and Reed offer. Fans definitely have rose tinted spectacles when it comes to Chapman 

[roversfan99]

44 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Ya and having Armstrong or Palmer there will mean the full back will have less protection. I think you are under selling how much Bennett and Reed have offered in attack this season. Both have goals and assists and Bennett is constantly on the highlight reel for spraying passes around. This infatuation some fans have with us needing a "winger" is confusing me a little. Is it the pace we need? Because having Chapman for example would leave us lighter defensively and if he isn't getting his way in an attacking sense, his all round game it well below what Bennett and Reed offer. Fans definitely have rose tinted spectacles when it comes to Chapman 

Bennett I was quite strong in my opinion that he didnt do anywhere near enough going forward when played as a winger last season, an opinion that seemed to go against the grain in regards to someone who is a very popular figure. I dont think you can justify a place for a wide man solely on defensive merits, he needs to offer something going forward. That said, conversely and without needing to see anyone spraying passes on any highlight reel, I think he has improved in his attacking output from that position, with key roles in goals against Hull, Brentford, winning a penalty v Reading and 2 goals v Stoke. I still maintain that he needs to score more (any) goals but I think he has been much improved going forward.

Reed has done very well too but over the course of the season, having a midfield containing Smallwood, Evans, Reed and Bennett is a little too conservative I would suggest. Mowbray has mentioned the 2.5 attacker system that he likes, meaning that in most games, I would suggest that the best way to go would be an Armstrong/Palmer/Rothwell down one side and Bennett or Reed down the other. Of course, that doesnt mean only one of them 2 can play at any time, as Reed is a natural central midfielder, Bennett can also play there and both can play right back very capably, with Bennett potentially playing there on Wednesday.

The reason that we need at least the option of a winger is it means that we can stretch teams, ideally with pace yes, but have someone that could go on the outside. All of our attacking players want to hurt teams down the middle, which is not always possible, so it gives you a totally different dimension. I felt that both Bell and Nyambe had shaky games yesterday and Forests wide men, especially Lolley had the beating of them.You mention a winger not offering defensive cover but I dont see why a winger would offer any less defensively than Armstrong, Rothwell, Palmer or Brereton should they play there, in fact they would be less prone in theory of leaving gaps when they come inside looking for the ball. Armstrong I feel is out of our options the best fit due to his pace and ability to exploit the space in behind coming from wide as he did last season. Palmer and Rothwell have also both shown to be a threat from wide but of course always want to come inside, and Brereton is as much of a wide man as Raya is. I just think having someone who considers them self to be a winger would be a great alternative option, as we saw with Chapman last year.

My desire for a winger does not specifically mean Chapman, in fact I would argue that there are probably better wingers out there in terms of the here and now.

[blueboy3333]

10 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Bennett I was quite strong in my opinion that he didnt do anywhere near enough going forward when played as a winger last season, an opinion that seemed to go against the grain in regards to someone who is a very popular figure. I dont think you can justify a place for a wide man solely on defensive merits, he needs to offer something going forward. That said, conversely and without needing to see anyone spraying passes on any highlight reel, I think he has improved in his attacking output from that position, with key roles in goals against Hull, Brentford, winning a penalty v Reading and 2 goals v Stoke. I still maintain that he needs to score more (any) goals but I think he has been much improved going forward. 

He was the 3rd highest in the team with assists last year. He isn't doing anything different this season. you've just taken the blinkers off?

[roversfan99]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

He was the 3rd highest in the team with assists last year. He isn't doing anything different this season. you've just taken the blinkers off?

The ranking within the team is slightly deceiving due to the turnover of wide men that we had. In the first half of the season obviously Chapman was here for a bit, and Antonsson was regularly played wide before his injury on the cusp of the year. After January, Armstrong took over on one side, and Payne also played a big part.

I personally didnt think 2 goals and 5 assists in 41 games was enough for an experienced Championship player.

That said, I am happy with his performances and specifically, his attacking play this season 

[aletheia]

Talking of cliches –here’s a few tired and tiresome tropes. Why, oh why is reffing so poor in this country and why can’t we have consistency? And an absolute cert on any phone-in is moaning about ‘biased’ refs, ‘cheating’ refs, refs that cost us the game, the league, my marriage, the end of the world……

 

Perhaps not the right space to raise this but since the notion of bad luck with reffing decisions has arisen, I thought it might be worth it.

 

The first thing that occurs to me is that only the weak blame refs. The next is that, since the quality is so poor according to many, then perhaps some on here should apply for the job. Maybe some ex pros should do it –I wonder why not?

But really, why would anyone with any sanity volunteer for the job? At grassroots level, the lifeblood for future refs, psychological and physical intimidation is rife, ranging from aggressive parents threatening to stab refs or sort them out in the car park, kids threatening to destroy changing rooms and screaming coaches. Thousands of UK officials — from grassroots level to top-flight — admitted they regularly experience verbal abuse. In the 2014/15 season, 100 incidents of criminal assault against men in black in the UK were recorded.

But many referees say the figures are much higher as the sickening violence goes unreported — out of fear or because officials have lost faith in the ability of county Football Associations to punish offenders quickly. There is plenty of footage out there of referees being kicked, punched and battered on the pitch for nothing more than giving a yellow card.

And take any game that you watch live or see on Match of the Day etc. and you can clearly see a variety of abuses. A ball goes out for a throw, a full back doesn’t like the way it’s given –and you can clearly see (or hear if you are pitch side) – “never lino, you f*****g c***, you cheating t**t!.” and that’s just a throw-in and you can clearly see that the full back is clearly wrong, not even close! Ditto, plenty of things to the ref. But of course, it’s just ‘industrial’ language that men use. Bo***cks! :-)  Doesn’t happen in rugby, cricket, basketball.

Then of course there is the issue I mentioned elsewhere recently. The officials' ability to make decisions at the top tier is exceptional. I suspect they get 90% plus of decisions correct. It’s obvious they are going to get plenty wrong in a fast moving game with a split second to make a decision. But then armchair specialists and teams of ‘experts’ sitting in studios watching every decision in ultra 4K, super slo-mo and from lots of angles make their pronouncements and decide that the officials should be shamed. Cue radio phone-ins for sad individuals to take out their inadequacies on the ‘bas***d in green.’ And the amusing thing is, after all the endless replays, the experts disagree anyway. How many times have you screamed at the ref live or at the TV, only to be shown the replay to see that you were entirely wrong. Or here’s a classic –home fans screaming at an opposing player who is in their opinion feigning injury, only to see the poor sod carried off with something serious.

 

So, refs. If you want infallibility forget it. If you want close to it, then give them the tools –VAR at least (that works and not the nonsense we have at the moment –but that is another issue). Pay them more. Train them more. Give them more respect at all levels. Sin bins. Zero tolerance of backchat. Let’s face it, refs provide a useful social function, a safety valve to vent all that anger, a focal point for all the resentment, bitterness and spleen of a community come Saturday. Hell, give them a medal.

Edited September 30, 2018 by aletheia

[chaddyrovers]

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Theres no point having an argument of why even say it because we know what Mowbray thinks and thats final. May as well shut down the messageboard with that kind of attitude.

Wingers still exist, some of whom play on their natural side and stretch the play, ie Jozefzoon and Lolley, some of whom come inside like Ince. There are plenty of wingers about no matter how many times that you compare them to the good old days ans imply that they arent. I never said a winger like we had in 95 that get crosses in to big strikers. Just a wide man who goes on the outside and stretches the play. Mowbrays failed pursuit of Chapman gives me hope that the door isnt closed on that sort of signing in the future.

I know the referees are poor but theres no quick fix and its beyond Rovers control and we should look to fix the things we can control first. Agreed with your team bar Evans for Rothwell.

You.can discuss wingers until the death but it aint going to do.any good. 

I would call most of your list that are wide man not wingers. 

Chapman will sign for us in January. Same as Bauer. 

How can you fix what isnt broken. Yestetday the Ref cost us. 

Evans has a Hip problem. Wouldnt risk it

[roversfan99]

34 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

You.can discuss wingers until the death but it aint going to do.any good. 

I would call most of your list that are wide man not wingers. 

Chapman will sign for us in January. Same as Bauer. 

How can you fix what isnt broken. Yestetday the Ref cost us. 

Evans has a Hip problem. Wouldnt risk it

Strange comment, the same could be said for anything on this messageboard, me and a couple of other posters were having a debate about the issue, surely the forum is for such discussions?

Splitting hairs again there, call them what you like, the players I listed are the types which I'm referring to, you know what I mean.

How do you know?

Lets hope Mowbray has a more proactive approach than, yes we could look at ways to win more games but the referees are the problem so lets just sit back and blame them! Yesterday he did I agree. But we should and am sure are looking at ways to turn draws into wins and hold on to leads more often. We can always improve. Look at Man City, 100 point champions yet they went out and signed Mahrez because even they can improve.

Hope he can play as hes been a key player this season.

[blueboy3333]

I didn't realise Dean Henderson plays for Sheff Utd these days. I'm hoping he gets a delightful BBE reception midweek. And that he loses it again, obviously. 

I also hope the ref is a lot less shit than Saturday. 

 

[Gone to seed]

2 hours ago, aletheia said:

Talking of cliches –here’s a few tired and tiresome tropes. Why, oh why is reffing so poor in this country and why can’t we have consistency? And an absolute cert on any phone-in is moaning about ‘biased’ refs, ‘cheating’ refs, refs that cost us the game, the league, my marriage, the end of the world……

 

Perhaps not the right space to raise this but since the notion of bad luck with reffing decisions has arisen, I thought it might be worth it.

 

The first thing that occurs to me is that only the weak blame refs. The next is that, since the quality is so poor according to many, then perhaps some on here should apply for the job. Maybe some ex pros should do it –I wonder why not?

But really, why would anyone with any sanity volunteer for the job? At grassroots level, the lifeblood for future refs, psychological and physical intimidation is rife, ranging from aggressive parents threatening to stab refs or sort them out in the car park, kids threatening to destroy changing rooms and screaming coaches. Thousands of UK officials — from grassroots level to top-flight — admitted they regularly experience verbal abuse. In the 2014/15 season, 100 incidents of criminal assault against men in black in the UK were recorded.

But many referees say the figures are much higher as the sickening violence goes unreported — out of fear or because officials have lost faith in the ability of county Football Associations to punish offenders quickly. There is plenty of footage out there of referees being kicked, punched and battered on the pitch for nothing more than giving a yellow card.

And take any game that you watch live or see on Match of the Day etc. and you can clearly see a variety of abuses. A ball goes out for a throw, a full back doesn’t like the way it’s given –and you can clearly see (or hear if you are pitch side) – “never lino, you f*****g c***, you cheating t**t!.” and that’s just a throw-in and you can clearly see that the full back is clearly wrong, not even close! Ditto, plenty of things to the ref. But of course, it’s just ‘industrial’ language that men use. Bo***cks! ?  Doesn’t happen in rugby, cricket, basketball.

Then of course there is the issue I mentioned elsewhere recently. The officials' ability to make decisions at the top tier is exceptional. I suspect they get 90% plus of decisions correct. It’s obvious they are going to get plenty wrong in a fast moving game with a split second to make a decision. But then armchair specialists and teams of ‘experts’ sitting in studios watching every decision in ultra 4K, super slo-mo and from lots of angles make their pronouncements and decide that the officials should be shamed. Cue radio phone-ins for sad individuals to take out their inadequacies on the ‘bas***d in green.’ And the amusing thing is, after all the endless replays, the experts disagree anyway. How many times have you screamed at the ref live or at the TV, only to be shown the replay to see that you were entirely wrong. Or here’s a classic –home fans screaming at an opposing player who is in their opinion feigning injury, only to see the poor sod carried off with something serious.

 

So, refs. If you want infallibility forget it. If you want close to it, then give them the tools –VAR at least (that works and not the nonsense we have at the moment –but that is another issue). Pay them more. Train them more. Give them more respect at all levels. Sin bins. Zero tolerance of backchat. Let’s face it, refs provide a useful social function, a safety valve to vent all that anger, a focal point for all the resentment, bitterness and spleen of a community come Saturday. Hell, give them a medal.

Completely with you on all of this - and before anyone asks, I did 25 years as a referee from grass-roots to semi-pro level, and one thing I know for certain about football is that once the jerseys are on, the blinkers are on too, together with a complete lack of perspective and respect for the people doing their best to make each game work.

I have to admit though that I am as biased as any other 'normal' fan when it comes to observing games, but at least I can usually give the referee the benefit of the doubt, based on my own long experience of the challenges of being in the middle. Having said that, the second penalty for Forest on Saturday - what the foooooooque was the blind B****rd in black actually thinking? Benefit of the doubt, my *rse.

Roll on Sheffield Utd - jog on you referees

WIR