Attendances

[JHRover]

Part of the appeal and allure of football, certainly in years gone by, was that you could make a late decision on the day to wander down to the ground and get on just before kick off without any hassle. The game managed quite well from 1880s through to 2000s without matchday surcharging and without ticket only stadia, when blokes could decide an hour or two before kick off to walk on and pick their stand at the last minute.

Modern day gimmicks like matchday surcharges stem from one thing - control - clubs and authorities want to control everything in advance - they want to be able to plan ahead and know what is coming rather than running any risks. Same when providing database details or logging in online when buying - all part of a grand plan for everyone to be on the system and their activities registered.

Places like Man Utd you can get away with it but in the 2nd tier when you've 20,000 empty seats its absolutely pointless, as even if we had 7,000 turn up at 2pm we should be able to accommodate them all easily and safely.

I don't know many theatres or cinemas where you get charged more on the day for a ticket than the night before.

Trains is a futile comparison as people have little to no alternative in terms of getting around the country. Attending a football match is very different.

[Dreams of 1995]

Do you think that if a fan on the day decided to walk on that an additional £3 charge would make him change his mind?

A pretty good analysis of whether or not the surcharge works - in terms of the club having early bookings as opposed to on the day - is to see how many people book in advance of the surcharge compared to those that don't. If most don't and end up paying the surcharge then the club has a decision to either scrap it in favour of providing cost savings to supporters or continue in cashing in on supporters as they are doing now.

[tomphil]

Good points in argument of the surcharge above but if it puts a dozen people off then it's pointless and not working, nobody should be put off in an area where most need a great deal of encouragement to think about turning up in the first place.

Edited October 1, 2018 by tomphil

[because of boxing day]

Am I right in thinking that you can prepay by ringing the ticket office or booking your ticket online before the matchday deadline and collect from the kiosk to avoid the surcharge. 

If that is correct it is very likely that there are only a few  that truly decide at the last minute to go that pay for the "last minute" service.

Surely most of those  averse to paying extra could organise their diary to make a call or go online!!

I do however hold the view that on the playing side, on communications via social media, on coaching and team management and commercial partnerships and sponsorship there have been enormous progressive strides.  These need to be matches by an inventive progressive policy on season ticket and matchday ticket pricing.

I'm not keen at this stage on allocating the upper BBE to young adults per JHR's idea. Would create empty chasms in other areas of ground until there is a huge surge in attendances.

Apologies for the appearanceof the post!!

Edited October 1, 2018 by because of boxing day
Mid line not erased!!

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Do you think that if a fan on the day decided to walk on that an additional £3 charge would make him change his mind?

Nope. 

Most walk ons order tickets days in advance and it would be nice to see some figures. Maybe the fans forum could get the figures

[Mattyblue]

You collect pre bought tickets at the kiosks at the side of the club shop.

But there’s always still plenty actually buying tickets at the old ticket office under the canopy in the run up to KO.

[Neal]

1 hour ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Do you think that if a fan on the day decided to walk on that an additional £3 charge would make him change his mind?

A pretty good analysis of whether or not the surcharge works - in terms of the club having early bookings as opposed to on the day - is to see how many people book in advance of the surcharge compared to those that don't. If most don't and end up paying the surcharge then the club has a decision to either scrap it in favour of providing cost savings to supporters or continue in cashing in on supporters as they are doing now.

It's changed my mind on a few occasions. 

[gumboots]

2 minutes ago, Neal said:

It's changed my mind on a few occasions. 

I couldn't say it's changed my mind as ive never yet got to the point of deciding to go, but it would annoy me to have to pay it if I did decide to turn up. I actually had persuaded my husband we should get ourselves down to Ewood for the next match but, having checked my diary, I have a can't miss meeting at the same time. I'll keep trying, and I'll make sure I order my ticket in advance to avoid paying more than I need to.

[chaddyrovers]

7 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

You collect pre bought tickets at the kiosks at the side of the club shop.

But there’s always still plenty actually buying tickets at the old ticket office under the canopy in the run up to KO.

So the 3 pounds extra change doesnt affect them then? 

[Mattyblue]

Obviously not, but we can’t see the ones it does, can we!

[J*B]

In advance, across the board, all matches:

Adults - £20

10-18 - £10

Under 10s - free with any adult

Adult and 10-18 package - £25

 

The key isn't adults, it's getting kids in. 

[DeeCee]

Would it have been too difficult to have STs on sale by the time of the Oxford match with a 10/20% discount for buying them in the following 7 days whilst the feelgood factor was high?

[JHRover]

12 minutes ago, DeeCee said:

Would it have been too difficult to have STs on sale by the time of the Oxford match with a 10/20% discount for buying them in the following 7 days whilst the feelgood factor was high?

It seems so, yes. For some reason we persist with being one of the last to release details.

[blueboy3333]

27 minutes ago, J*B said:

In advance, across the board, all matches:

Adults - £20

10-18 - £10

Under 10s - free with any adult

Adult and 10-18 package - £25

 

The key isn't adults, it's getting kids in. 

It's both. Clubs are offering cheap tickets for the 18- 25 age bracket because they are the ones that stop going. Clubs have researched it. Other clubs let u12's in for free. 

Rovers do nowt. What the fans forum members do isn't exactly clear either. If they have raised these issues then what ideas have they put forward to a Board at Blackburn who are so obviously out of touch (and judging by the managers comments so is he)

[blueboy3333]

8 hours ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Nottingham has double the population we have and a large student population. It makes sense for them to try and attract that age of fan.

Completely irrelevant. It makes sense for every club to attract all young people, not just students.

Edited October 1, 2018 by blueboy3333

[Rover_Shaun]

To me it's irrelevant if 101% of late buying fans aren't put off by the £3 surcharge. 

It's the whole concept of the surcharge that's shoddy. It's something I would expect of Ryanair. A shoddy Shi tty company I have the utmost contempt for. What next? Pre-order booked tickets you print at home yourself but only from 2 hrs before kickoff and you are charged £25 if you don't?

It's another incident that shows the club has changed in all recognition from the supporter friendly community spirit club pre-Rao

Edited October 1, 2018 by Rover_Shaun

[JHRover]

Got to laugh at Ken Anderson's notes on Bolton's website tonight moaning about falling crowds at their place and saying he's hoping for a bumper attendance v Rovers on Saturday. Meanwhile their fans are being charged as much if not more than we are for a ticket for a match that is live on TV. Another one that must be completely out of touch with reality if he thinks folk in this corner of the world are going to queue up to pay £30-£35 for televised Championship football.

Also heard we'll be selling Swansea away tickets shortly at £30 each. Tuesday night on the red button. Almost as though they're trying to persuade people not to bother going. Clubs will just count the coin and carry on. Disgusting.

 

[Neal]

7 hours ago, gumboots said:

I couldn't say it's changed my mind as ive never yet got to the point of deciding to go, but it would annoy me to have to pay it if I did decide to turn up. I actually had persuaded my husband we should get ourselves down to Ewood for the next match but, having checked my diary, I have a can't miss meeting at the same time. I'll keep trying, and I'll make sure I order my ticket in advance to avoid paying more than I need to.

Sometimes due to childcare I might get the chance to go last minute but if that extra charge rounds it up to a figure that I deem overpriced then I'll choose to watch it at home. I love Rovers of course but wether it's football or other products I choose to buy, I have a pretty strong opinion of what I think something is worth and if it exceeds it then I can pretty easily make my mind up. Championship football at any club is not worth more than £20 IMV.

[Paul]

21 hours ago, Neal said:

 

Present your ticket stubs or receipts for the previous games? The good thing about it is that say you absolutely could not attend and you didn't want to lose your discount privilege then people would be getting tickets for friends and still putting backsides on seats, there's an incentive to keep going back. I take your point about pricing being financially viable but it's also the money handed over the bar too and surely a seat filled at £10 is better than nothing at all?

I want to see Ewood full as much as anyone and completely agree a full seat at £10 is better than an empty one. The issue though revolves around ST holders. I think I'm correct that the cheapest ST on early bird was £349, £15/game - to drop below this risks alienating ST holders as it's impossible to establish how many ST holders would view the extra £5 they pay as value for the ST benefits.

Personally I have a good seats I want to keep and I don't want the hassle of buying a ticket 23 times a year. Would I effectively pay a premium for this? Yes and I'd cough up the extra £5 but would not be happy.

Two possible benefits which could be given to ST holders to compensate for a £10 walk on are free or discounted parking and free away tickets.

Darwen End parking is £200 which in previous seasons we've needed, this year we don't. If the parking was discounted in recognition of a £10 walk on I'd be happy. I would be even happier if ST holders got priority over away coaches for exiting the car parks - I'd happily pay for that benefit. Waiting up to half an hour to leave really winds me up. We live six miles from Ewood and often don't get home in less than an hour.

"Free" away tickets to local games or a number to a total value equal to the difference over the season between walk on and ST price. That would probably mean the club giving an ST holder five away tickets per season.

I don't know the point at which £10 tickets are viable but my gut feeling is crowds would need to double and that won't happen.

John Williams used to say match day takings were around £1.20 per fan. For every person who buys a beer or coffee you have at least one like me who probably spends less than £20 per season. I don't think the "bar" argument stands up to scrutiny.

Edited October 2, 2018 by Paul

[Stuart]

On 30/09/2018 at 16:53, chaddyrovers said:

 Yesterday game prove that Rovers are attracting walk on's fans but people are choosing their games due to family and work circumstances plus other factors like being paid that week or so before the game does help. 

Walk-ons are put off by the price. It’s that simple.

I might pay up to £25 for a decent PL cup match opponent. I’m not paying £25 for a Championship game.

If I was to not buy a season ticket I would probably simply stop going altogether.

The club (Waggott) have got this one wrong and they have now artificially limited our attendance.

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, Stuart said:

Walk-ons are put off by the price. It’s that simple.

Do you have any figures to prove this case? Sales before 12pm and after 12pm figures

1 hour ago, Paul said:

 

John Williams used to say match day takings were around £1.20 per fan. For every person who buys a beer or coffee you have at least one like me who probably spends less than £20 per season. I don't think the "bar" argument stands up to scrutiny.

Good point. Its very rare I buy drink or food in the ground. Tend to call in at Bakery at Brownhill for Sandwich/pie. 

[J*B]

18 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Do you have any figures to prove this case? Sales before 12pm and after 12pm figures

Good point. Its very rare I buy drink or food in the ground. Tend to call in at Bakery at Brownhill for Sandwich/pie. 

What sort of pie?

[gumboots]

16 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Do you have any figures to prove this case? Sales before 12pm and after 12pm figures

Good point. Its very rare I buy drink or food in the ground. Tend to call in at Bakery at Brownhill for Sandwich/pie. 

We always bought at least drinks in the ground and the kids,  when they attended, would often have a pie too. We bought programmes and visited the shop, often buying small items. We were consumers as well as fans. 

[Neal]

2 hours ago, Paul said:

I want to see Ewood full as much as anyone and completely agree a full seat at £10 is better than an empty one. The issue though revolves around ST holders. I think I'm correct that the cheapest ST on early bird was £349, £15/game - to drop below this risks alienating ST holders as it's impossible to establish how many ST holders would view the extra £5 they pay as value for the ST benefits.

Personally I have a good seats I want to keep and I don't want the hassle of buying a ticket 23 times a year. Would I effectively pay a premium for this? Yes and I'd cough up the extra £5 but would not be happy.

Two possible benefits which could be given to ST holders to compensate for a £10 walk on are free or discounted parking and free away tickets.

Darwen End parking is £200 which in previous seasons we've needed, this year we don't. If the parking was discounted in recognition of a £10 walk on I'd be happy. I would be even happier if ST holders got priority over away coaches for exiting the car parks - I'd happily pay for that benefit. Waiting up to half an hour to leave really winds me up. We live six miles from Ewood and often don't get home in less than an hour.

"Free" away tickets to local games or a number to a total value equal to the difference over the season between walk on and ST price. That would probably mean the club giving an ST holder five away tickets per season.

I don't know the point at which £10 tickets are viable but my gut feeling is crowds would need to double and that won't happen.

John Williams used to say match day takings were around £1.20 per fan. For every person who buys a beer or coffee you have at least one like me who probably spends less than £20 per season. I don't think the "bar" argument stands up to scrutiny.

Fair points. If the offers of £10 a tickets came in after Christmas though then ST holders will have had a half a season of games without being undercut. Perhaps don't go quite as low as £10 but simply match the price at £15. The main issue is that ST prices are too high in the first place but surely if we can focus on simply filling the ground as much as possible then it will make it a much more attractive product for next ST's? Just very much doubt Waggot views it this way.

[JWUpper]

I think most people would agree with Stuart and others who are on the side of the argument that says a matchday increase in ticket prices definitely puts off walks ons as coupled with other factors such as family/work schedule you’re less likely to go out of your way to attend if you feel the club is unnecessarily charging more because you can’t/don’t know if you can attend for whatever reason until the day of the game itself. It’s like with train companies increasing ticket prices on the day compared to advance fares which in effect penalises people that have fluid schedules/circumstances in day-to-day life and puts them off travelling by train and ends up alienating customers meaning the train companies don’t make as much money in the long term compared to a few extra higher fares in the short term and leaves people dissatisfied with the train company as an organisation.

The only vague ideas of ticket sales comes in the form of articles/data like the one below from both individual clubs and the EFL and other instances of club/league officials replying to fan questions at forum meetings etc.

https://www.efl.com/news/2018/may/sky-bet-championship-attendances-grow-for-the-second-successive-season/

Obviously articles like this will only paint rosy pictures whilst marginalising any negative instances of ticket sales/attendances as they are trying to promote brand awareness/sell their product. 

Following that logic, clubs and the league aren’t actively going to put out statistics that show how pricing structures they put in place to make more money in areas wherever they can without being called out on it by the majority of the fan/consumer base negatively affect attendances etc. as they’d be shooting themselves in the foot. 

Until the fans forum asks the club to supply the data (which I imagine they’ll do begrudgingly and take as much time as they can over) you’ll have to rely on the opinions of other fans (both on here and in the real world) that in my experience has always pointed to a matchday increase putting people off.